UO Leadership - Request Tweak to Siege Perilous Rule Set

Freelsy

Uvtha said:

One solution to the item loss issue is simply dramatically increasing item drop rates.  It's a win/win scenario.  People have something more meaningful to pvp over, people gear more easily, pvmers have more valuable stuff to sell.  It makes life easier, improves the flow of character progression/preparation and economics, and it's a very easy change to make.  

Sadly they have said in the past that they weren't going to consider a unique drop rate for siege, which made no sense to me, considering it's the game's only unique ruleset shard.  It needs unique rules to work right.  

/agree with all of it. We've all said the same thing for years now.

Max_Blackoak

CovenantX said:

The main problem with siege, is as Items become more powerful, siege becomes less popular.

(I don't think items can get anymore powerful than they are, really)  magic property caps are the only thing maintaining any balance. 

Other restrictions specific to siege, that may deter people from even trying it:

1) limited to 1 character slot per account.

2) No recall or equivalent spells -   Gate Travel Only.

3) the Rot Skill-gain system.  (more reliable gains, but very slow progress)

4) limited to 1 blessed item.  (no insurance)

The actual problem is that most of the time non-Siege players approach Siege with their production shard mindset and for the most part are unable to think outside of their prodo box. I am not saying they're dumb, in fact this is normal - they approach Siege with their prodo-knowledge of UO because that simply is their background.

The lack of item insurance forces you to re-think your suits and templates. You will have to come up with a solid idea that you can build around your one blessed item. That being said and since you mentioned magic property caps, it is absolutely possible to reach the most important caps with just one blessed item and replaceable suits. Crafted and imbued suits go a long way on Siege. If you or anyone who would like to give Siege a try need advice, feel free to ask (and no, the answer will not always be "train stealth")

Of course you can get some nice extras on your suit by adding high end artifacts but you have to accept that you will loose them sooner or later. Siege Perilous is true risk vs. reward there!

Also Siege does not allow some of the more ridiculous PvP templates and suits that prodo does simply because you wouldn't be able to replace your suits reliably enough.

Dexxers WILL eventually run out of mana on Siege. There are hardly any 4/6 casting templates because they're too costly, there are no 210+ stam/1.25 sec. swing archers on Siege for the same reason, etc. etc. 

The field is a lot more even over here.

Let me quickly cover the other points you made from a Siege player perspective:

1. The 1 character limit actually has some benefits - your reputation on Siege matters. We've seen more than enough people who came over to Siege, behaved like a bunch of 15 year old problem children and then complained that noone wanted to trade with them or help them out in any way and treated them accordingly. It's not as easy to hide behind 7 other characters.

Also the 1 character limitation is actually not as limiting as you might think it is. Soulstones are a big deal on Siege. Everybody has them. Put crafting skill on them, put other templates you like to run every now and then on them. If you don't want to spend rl money on them you can often times buy them for gold. The current rate per soulstone token is 2.5-3 million gp, which is really affordable - if you know what you're doing you can farm that up within 2-3 hours. The only limitation here are your stats - you won't be able to switch from having 125 base dexterity to 125 base int.

2. No recall - gate travel only. In this day and age this really isn't a problem. Siege has a huge network of public use teleporters to houses, many houses have crystal portals, corrupted crystal portals, Eodon moonstone crystals, Ilshenar Serpent's jawbones that are set to anyone use. There are several dedicated hubs - public houses with teleport tiles that will take you to other public houses in locations of interest. The biggest hub of all these is located just north of the Britain moongate and has every dungeon linked, every lost land passage, etc. etc. So really there is no need for recall (or even gating) on Siege at all.

From a PvP perspective having no recall and no gating from or into dungeons makes sense too: there is no easy escape.

3. RoT skill gain system. Please don't dismiss this as "too slow" because it only is in theory. Let a Siege vet who knows what they're doing explain to you how to take advantage of the RoT system and I guarantee you you will be able to finish your template almost if not just as fast as on prodo. It is different but it absolutely works. Again, let someone who knows what they're doing give you advice.

4. No insurance - only 1 blessed item. First of all this is a restriction that EVERY Siege player has to deal with, so everyone is really on the same level here. As I said above it makes things different on Siege but it doesn't make things impossible. You will have to entirely re-think your teamplates and suits and come up with affordable solutions that are built around one blessed item.

Some examples: some caster templates like to bless the night-eyes or the hephaestus shield because in combination with the fc1 trade deal (also works for reds btw) they can keep their suits rather cheap. The advantage of these items over that ever so elusive legendary ring or bracelet with overcapped mods is that they can be farmed up relatively easy by new players without access to absolute highend gear.

For dexxers it actually makes sense to make use of the warrior mastery for the extra hci and dci and bless an item that will help them reach their hci and dci caps for example. Often times they like to bless a weapon, sometimes an artifact like the totem of the tribe.

Other people run suits that are closer to prodo suits and use a crimson cincture as their blessed item. These suits will be more costly and require more farming for special ingredients though. Again, in this aspect Siege is true risk vs. reward!

All that being said, please keep in mind I am not trying to make you look like a fool or dismiss your arguments. You are obviously approaching Siege from a prodo player perspective and that is totally legitimate. It will however help to get some input from people who play on Siege as their main shard and who play the whole game (not just naked stealth templates). Don't hesitate to ask for advice. And who knows, you might end up finding Siege more fun than prodo after all.

Now back to the actual topic of this thread. The intention of the OP was to ask for changes that will make the transition of prodo players a little easier, while allowing those who already play on Siege to have a little more variety by having additional ways of blessing an item (CBDs or an extra Siege bless). This is a legitimate request, as is anyone's opinion about it really. Let's keep discussing this and see if we can come up with a suggestion that a majority can get behind.

(PS: Having played on Siege since early 2000 I really wonder who Bilbo and Lady Storm are though. This is not to discredit you or suggest your voices shouldn't be heard, I am merely interested to know who we are talking to here. This by the way is another nice thing about the 1 character per account - there is an actual sense of community on Siege where you "know" people)

Tanager

This thread is about applying CBDs to cloth items with properties. There are a lot of ideas for Siege here, but we actually have a Dev response so I would like to try to stay on topic.

For the folks wanting a ''classic UO'', please remember that CBDing cloth artifacts and items with properties like Hat of the Magi, Crimson Cincture, and Pads of the Cu Sidhe etc, was removed (originally allowed on Siege, still allowed on Tram). At the time, there were not many artifacts and loot that could be CBDd, and there was some imbalance as far as which classes benefited the most. But UO has changed, and so has loot. I think it is safe to say that now every class can benefit from re-instating the full use of CBDs.

Siege is the ''hard shard'' and people want to be able to loot the fancy gear. But instead, most people just stopped wearing it. And when no one wears it, no one farms it. PvMers get bored cuz they have no reason to farm, and PvPers get bored cuz they have no players to hunt. Crafters get bored cuz both groups rarely need to buy anything of value that they can craft. All of those play styles still exist on Siege, but the numbers are dropping cuz people are bored.

And so I say re-instate (again, this is not a new thing for Siege, this how it used to be!) CBDing cloth items with properties. This would increase the value of CBDs (and get crafters out of their house to farm materials for BODs) and get people out of their houses to farm items and artifacts worthy of said CBD. 

PvMers, PvPers, Crafters all win.

BoBo

Bo agrees with the OP, people leave siege due to losing their items.  People like the Bo could care less bout losing items, cause bo has soo much its just silly.  So that right there is why some people want to leave it the way it is, cause they have a distinct advantage.  Bo has been sayin for years that we should ad the ability to bless 2 more items. 

A bit off topic - The bo has been reading lately on these boards, people complaining about pvp being unbalanced on prodo.  Hahah all these things that don't happen on Siege.  ya know why cause it is impossible or too costly to do on siege for the most part.  What prodo should is limit the amount of items that can be insured.  Put a hard cap on insurance if items cost 100 gold to insure than 400 is the cap.   hahaah there is your answer prodo. 

Bo also remembers that the devs didn't even know that Siege doesn't have passive detect on it.  The devs stated the last time they were on siege that they would look into this..  Well its only been what 2-3 months???  Can we please get passive reveal/detect on siege...  Stealth is way over powered.  And anyone who says it isn't doesn't know how to use it. 

Merus

Increase the drop rate of all artifacts and legendary armor dramatically.... but make them all spawn with the antique property.

Higher end suits would be more readily obtained, would still be lootable if you kill someone and would still need to be farmed with some regularity to replace ones that break.

Max_Blackoak

I would be all for Merus' suggestion.

However, in the past we've already made similar suggestions like increase artifact drop rates, give us double resources and the fel luck bonus on all facets since they're all fel ruleset, etc. They were either dismissed as too much time/work spent on a Siege specific issue, or the Siege population could not agree on whether or not they wanted a certain change or some other reason.

This is why Freelsy was trying to make a "new" suggestion that essentially has already existed on this shard at one time.

CharGar

These items are very easily obtained.  I have all of the above mentioned items.  Actually I have more than one.  Go do the hard work and obtain them.

Drakelord

I would love to know if the First Aid Belt will still be blessed on Siege if I am able to get one there?

Max_Blackoak

CharGar said:

These items are very easily obtained.  I have all of the above mentioned items.  Actually I have more than one.  Go do the hard work and obtain them.

funny you should say that...whenever I killed you you never had any of these items on you.

why? because you can't easily replace them. That on the other hand means you also won't be farming for this item because why farm for it when you don't use it anyways?

See where I'm going with this? It's basically a never ending circle resulting in content not being used or not to the extend it could be.

There are people out there who run these items unblessed and risk loosing them. But those are a rare occurance.

Also you're kind of contradicting here: on the one hand you say these items are easily obtained, on the other you tell people to do the hard work to obtain them...so, which is it?

Max_Blackoak

Drakelord said:

I would love to know if the First Aid Belt will still be blessed on Siege if I am able to get one there?

only one way to find out - claim one on Siege once it goes live and see if it's blessed.

If it is I can already see caster templates demanding a blessed bag of reagents to be implemented so they are on the same level...

Cookie

Max_Blackoak said:

Drakelord said:

I would love to know if the First Aid Belt will still be blessed on Siege if I am able to get one there?

only one way to find out - claim one on Siege once it goes live and see if it's blessed.

If it is I can already see caster templates demanding a blessed bag of reagents to be implemented so they are on the same level...

It's an interesting question - being Siege, I fully don't expect the First Aid Belt to be blessed.

There are certainly all these pro and con arguments, all round, for all shards even.

But I don't think they have blessed the quivers for archers? I don't think there is any precedent for it to be blessed...? The closest precedent is LRC armour. Just thought of another close precedent - the Invasion spellbooks were blessed. This means Mages can have 2 blessed items against a warriors 1 blessed item.

If they did bless it on Siege, it would be like Christmas for my warrior. He could use this item 100%. Currently, I spend quarter of my time on Siege farming bandies. I need 300-500 per hunt I do, so when I log on in an evening, I spend the first bit farming bandies, and only after doing the hunt I wanted to do. I've built up a reserve of 10k bandies so far, but these are one of those resources, you can't have enough of.

This farming time is usually dead time, because the mobs, don't give any skill-gains, even under ROT. It also takes a lot longer than you can imagine, waiting for spawn to pop up. So you are losing other time where you could be gaining other progression resources, or gaining skills.

I'm good either way to be fair, I'm enjoying it.

psychlo0015

I think it would be cool if they took the game back to PRE AOS. (but keep the custom houses) Adapt special rare item drops to the PRE AOS system so we could still have good stuff. I don't think clothing bless deeds should be allowed on rares its meant for regular clothes. Being able to bless rares gives people an unfair advantage over regular players who would likely never have the money or skill to get rare sashes or clothing bless deeds. I think if you want to wear your sash wear it at your own risk (seems like that would be the fun way anyways why bless it and take away the fun. It's just a sash)

Freelsy

CharGar said:

These items are very easily obtained.  I have all of the above mentioned items.  Actually I have more than one.  Go do the hard work and obtain them.

Well this is rich. I'm constantly spamming general chat and creating forum posts for buying tangles, glacial/blaze hair dyes, crimsons, LT sashes... yet NO ONE speaks up. Yes, you all have them.  You've been farming them for years with your guild. That's amazing. But no one in GIL will sell their stuff. Not luck armor, not jewels, and not even crafting ingredients. You sit on your items and have them locked down in your house.

Why do you do this? Because they're extremely hard to come by! You made my point in my original post. People don't run them/sell them because they're super exclusive on Siege... which is awesome, but sucky at the same time. Like I said, don't tweak the drop rates (that's a completely separate issue) but institute the old bless system.

Again, as I said in previous posts... this user is part of that old establishment mentality on Siege that shuts down all ideas outside their own perception of the shard... "this is the way it is, no change!" It's super unfortunate.

Garth_Grey

Tweak the drop rates, some of us don't have the luxury of being able to play 19 hrs/day.

Max_Blackoak

Cookie said:

But I don't think they have blessed the quivers for archers? I don't think there is any precedent for it to be blessed...? The closest precedent is LRC armour. Just thought of another close precedent - the Invasion spellbooks were blessed. This means Mages can have 2 blessed items against a warriors 1 blessed item.

Actually for a long time the despicable quiver was blessed. And when shamino's crossbow, the ancient samurai helm and the leggins of ember and some other heritage token items were introduced they were blessed for years until their bless was removed along with the ability to CBD items with mods on them.

Good point on lrc armor and blessed invasion spellbooks! I personally wouldn't mind having the first aid kit as a blessed version on Siege. Would really help healing dexxers and tamers with vet. If it doesn't come blessed, then oh well...another item that noone will use.

Garth_Grey

Someone complained and they removed the bless from Dawns music box...smh, that right there should tell you that Siege will never be fixed. They won't allow the teleporting to player vendors because that removes the risk vs reward, but hey, it's ok to get a free gate to your ship, whether it's scuttled or not, with 0 magery, because, well, risk vs reward right @Kyronix ?