PvP balancing changes proposal 2018

CetricCetric Posts: 152
edited August 2018 in PvP / VvV
These are things I would propose:

1. Splinter should not proc on special abilities if the weapon has spell channeling.  This would make it so it can proc on base hits for a tank mage, but more dexer centric where it would proc for dexers in special abilities besides disarm.  Dexers today really need splinter, and for tank mages it feels like too much.  Alternatively make this based off of casting skill amount.

2. Magical fish pies reducing damaged by 5 is a very overpowered thing right now, especially when stacked on refined resists.  Disallow the effect of the fish pie resist buffs in pvp, or from player damage.  Alternatively at minimum, do not allow a magic fish pie to be eaten if your resists are altered via refinements, though preference would be to just make them only useful for pvm.  The reduced damage is just too much in the grand scheme.  Refinements force you to make the decision to worsen your defense chance, pies have no negative and are better.  Another alternative would be damage taken in any other elemental resist besides the pie eaten resist, would be much greater damage.  A consumable of this nature, this powerful with no negative is not good.

3. Reduce evasion % max by 25% and scale.

4. Raise pet base damage slightly for non casting ability pets.  Pets were nerfed hard, deservedly so.  Pete that have no ability to cast, breath fire breaths, or poison breaths should have a very very slight bump in base damage.  Pets with ranged ability need nothing to continue to be effective.

5. fukiya/shuriken timer between uses should be based on the player, not the belt/gun.

6. Shatter potions are just a troll tactic, stealthers just run around throwing shatter potions to break potions and run away.  Reduce the amount of potions a shatter pot can shatter significantly, and or, create a negative to throwing them (ie, you become paralyzed for 5 seconds after throwing the potion)

Potentially more after some thought, but these are the ones that jump out at me right now.  If I had to say which one is the most pressing St the moment, it would be the fish pies.


  • TummyTummy Posts: 1
    Agree with these. This man is a hero amongst men.
  • ezikelezikel Posts: 90
    edited August 2018

    7-healing should be able to heal and remove bleed from splintering

    8-he should have an immune time after being splintering 
    9-focus attack should not have any effect on splintering
  • They first need to crack down in the mass cheating through 3rd party programs, until that is done none of this would even matter.   Splintering should have never been added to the game, just remove its ability.  Ive been playing free shards lately and Ive had to use one of those programs and it has wrecked pvp in uo, it may never recover.  We were supposed to get a updated list of whats legal or not and no word on it for a long time.  So I don't bother even logging in to paly OSI anymore.
  • CetricCetric Posts: 152
    these forums are really active
  • DukarloDukarlo Posts: 50
    I think antique items should either be cursed or they should not break down so quickly. I don't like the EC and don't like Insta  suit swapping to begin with. People should not be able to insta change their armor in either client or thru the use of 3rd party programs. It actually makes builds and abilities possible that really shouldn't be possible. Basicly make it so people can use them without the rapid breakage or make them lootable. Players insta swap to basicly get around the breakage. Either make them viable to cc users or get rid of them.
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 947
    edited August 2018
    #1) Splintering Weapon for Casters: Sure, splintering is OP A F when combined with certain specials (and btw, Disarm wasn't one of them) when Mages use it. I think it should be tied more to the skills of the user instead of whether or not the weapon is spell-channeling though. However, either option would be better than leaving it alone.

    #2) Fish Pies (and other Buff Foods): I'm of the opinion buffs from food shouldn't have an effect in pvp. this combined with refinements (75 resistances), you could essentially be immune to a specific damage type for 2 minutes or until the buff is purged. Never should have been allowed in pvp to begin with.

    #3) Evasion: I don't think it's necessary to change Evasion at all, unless it's a slight buff to players that don't have the Parry skill. Besides, it sounds like with the suggested change, Evasion wouldn't be able to proc reactive paralyze anymore. That's no fun, especially when mages can chug potions and gain benefits of it without sacrificing offense or defense.

    #4) Pet vs Player Damage Reduction: I've posted about this a few times -50% pet vs player damage reduction is a little much. 30% wasn't enough, -40% should be fine, but I still think it should be -8%/occupied follower slot, which would equate to -40% at 5/5 followers regardless of how many pet(s) are under the control of the tamer. because it would treat combinations of weaker pets more fairly, instead of it being a flat -40% across the board. This Pet vs Player damage reduction should also be carried over to Summons as well, both spell & item-based summons. which could then be "buffed" in pvm without breaking pvp any further.

    #5) Darts & Stars: I agree.

    #6) Shatter Potions: As annoying as they can be, I have the opposite opinion on this one... Personally, I think shatter potions should gain benefit from Enhance Potions allowing them to break up to 50% more potions, in addition, the user should be able to select from a context menu a priority list of which potions to break first. Although, I do think there should be a 30 second immunity timer to a person being hit by a shatter potion, so that groups can't just shatter the same target once for each player they have. - Yes, I'm aware that cure potions would be the first ones to go every single time, why? Poisoning Skill... fix it. Mr Magoo saw the problem on the first day poisoning was buffed (again).

    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • cobbcobb Posts: 172
    I think most of these points are debatable and not urgent at all.

    The only thing I really agree with is the fish pies and shatter potion.  Maybe put a 30 min cooldown on the pies or something. Shatter potions are the dumbest thing ever.  A stealther will throw a shatter pot at you and go immediately back into hiding with no intention of fighting at all. and they will keep doing it just to annoy people.
  • I propose a nerf to negative attitudes, ego, insurance, and trammel. 
  • The_Higgs_1The_Higgs_1 Posts: 420
    edited October 2018
    Parry needs to be nerfed when combined with casting schools to like 15-20% for pvp.
    Bushido mastery that allows confidence to be uninterruptable needs to be removed.
    Splintering should have immunity on player after being hit once (like 20-30 secs)
    Shatter potions same thing with immunity timer
    All LMC bonuses need to be removed from UO, back to 40 LMC cap.
    I also think a skill cap should be put in for pvp around 780 at most.
    Poisoning should be easier to cure but cure potions put on a cooldown to keep poisoning usable
    All illegal 3rd party programs need to be addressed and bannable.
    @Bleak @Kyronix @Mesanna
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited October 2018
    5) is implemented as a bug fix in publish 102.

    1) Splintering, I don’t like anything that makes the game more complicated. If you want to do something to nerf it, I would say just remove the bleed effect, after all, when you enter the desert in twisted weald and you’re splintered, there’s no bleed effect, but then if they removed the bleed they should also let it proc with disarm again. This would tidy things up nicely.

    2) 3) 4) 6) as usual CovenantX is correct.

    but yeah nothing written here is worthy of campaigning for. I’ll continue with bug fixes.

    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002

  • https://forum.uo.com/discussion/2606/upcoming-combat-changes-in-publish-103#latest

      It looks like they took this particular thread to heart, @Cetric .
    Also, thanks @Bleak ; @Kyronix and @Mesanna for really listening to us on some things. Good to see so much thoughtfulness in just the short time I've been back.
  • I like the proposed changes. 95 dex will be rough for parry mages on Siege but should still be doable. On prodo it most likely is not as much of a problem
  • TailTail Posts: 70
    #1 Lower Parry chance in some way across the board. Everyone has it, this takes all player skill out of the game.

    #2 Splintering weapon is fine doing 2 things like other things can, For instance, Nerve Strike can stun + damage. However splintering does the following: Force walks, Bleeds, deals damage, acts while you do a special, and at no mana cost. This one ability does (5) things and its spam-able with no cool down. How this even got in the game still boggles my mind.

    #3 Evasion is to strong. perhaps if u lower Parry chance % this might fix evasion.

    #4 EVERYONE IS BLUE! WHY? Because of the Town Buff being in TRAM only and pardons. Do the game a favor, Remove pardons, Put Town buff in Fel. DELETE VVV, and reinstate Factions System.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,328
    edited October 2018
    Ok, I'm still on holiday, so not been able to contribute well, not been able to go to test with any guild, Bleak ignored us all last time anyway and did almost the opposite to pander to the elite pvpers who had really little clue about fun, even though they did know how to spend 1000 bucks on a good suit. Also thinking of winding down on pvp, it's getting too complicated (Mervyns point I agree on) and too itemised, so I don't know how valid my thoughts are anymore. Let's not be adding more complicated conditional formulas, lets try and keep it easy, maybe even tone down the complication.

    If Bleak wants to read something unbiased by a guy with a really good pvp attitude, who is a genuinely great pvper (better than most of the muppets in these threads), he should look for Slappyjippers posts on these forums.

    My thoughts in order of the proposed changes.

    1. I've used a parry mage for a long time, but not for the last 1-2 years. They are a requirement because dexxers are too strong. I don't like parry mages, because they restrict my mana, casting and sdi too much. On a mage without parry however, I get destroyed. I don't stand a chance.

    I'm not sure about this +15 Dex requirement, even with itemisation, this creates a complete deadzone in stats for mages, who just don't need Dex at all, they have no use for it - unless said mage is carrying a weapon with that much dex, in which case he is a dexxer (with some magery), rather than a mage, which quite frankly is a travesty anyway. It has to be remembered, dexxers do benefit from all 3 types of stats, which is a huge advantage. Dexxers get huge benefits from mana (non stop specials), that mages don't get from dex.

    Having said all of this, I don't mind if parry mages are nerfed, it would be good to bring back more pure mages, and proper mageplay. Players need to understand the reason there are so many though, which is that dexxers are ridiculously overpowered. I'm pretty sure mages wouldn't be gimping themselves with 95 dex (80+15 to beat curse without consumables, which means the new normal could be 95+15 which could be unachievable) for no reason.

    Why can't the Devs nerf parry chance? I believe this is because it would nerf parry for pvm dexxers, so I understand it cannot be done.

    Why can't the Devs nerf parry when mixed with a casting school? Again, Paladins and necro parry wraiths for example (very valid specs) would be nerfed in pvm.

    Why can't the Devs nerf Evasion? Because this would nerf pvm Samurai's which again are a valid template. ( I don't give a monkeys about Sampires).

    I think this change could seriously damage parry mages, which may not be a bad thing, if they get a balanced nerf in on dexxers (the splinter adjustment tries to address this, we will see).
    A good result from this, would be a reduction in parry mages and an increase in pure mages, will it work not sure, a bad result could be the destruction of all magetypes, as there is an underlying reason for having the parry - and everyone going even more weapon orientated - almost not possible I know...

    A couple of posters have said - it could change nothing - I get that, this maybe true, if this is the case, it is still the underlying issue of dexxers are too OP to be able to change playstyles.

    I'll go with this change for the moment. I don't mind parry mages being nerfed, I just don't want to be swamped by even more clueless weapon users. I'd like to fight people with brains. :(

    2. The discord changes. Champ spawners do often bring a plus one, and do often use a bard for the buffs. Large guild teams do often consider having a bard for the pvp player buffs, but often decide against it because in a fluid fight, the range of buff is too small. I also understand that with itemisation, +skill points on elite player bought suits have become a huge issue, many people on the boards have mentioned it. I also remember some people asking why bards are so useless, can they have a pvp use. So I can see the Devs are trying to kill 2 birds with 1 stone here, fair enough.

    Have to be careful here, this could end up being OP in a climate where so many rely on ridiculous suits. But even so, maybe those players do deserve to get hit. The problem as I see it is, the effect range is too small for guilds to implement this, much like now - maybe get rid of the range requirement, and do a 5 minute timer for positive bard buffs, and a 30 second timer for these new negative pvp debuffs.

    3. Fish pies. Now I was ok with these, on the condition they benefitted crafters, and were rare. If that train has gone, and they are duped or scripted in unlimited quantities into pvp, then yes, sadly take them out. Same thought process as with unlimited duped invis items from 15 years ago. A few will not hurt, swamping pvp with them, will hurt.

    4. Splinter... I personally have no issue with splinter in itself. It is the truckload of lethal special combinations that follow. It's way too much, again caused by itemisation, dexxers having too much mana, and instant weapon switches, giving access to at least 10 deadly specials all at once. Mages just don't have a response for this volume of specials at once. So on its own, this change is ok. It is even more ok considering it is done in conjunction with point one, where parry mages and their mana (and therefore their attack) is being nerfed to make it easier for dexxers v parry mages. Overall, this is probably a minimum nerf - and fair and balanced.

    Yes, today it rained, and I can't be by the pool drinking pina colada. :)

  • NikardNikard Posts: 164
    Things I would propose:

    15-20 Second cooldown on high level poison

    Remove lesser forged pardons and only allow royal pardons at a significant price.

    Town buffs remain only available to innocents.

    Fish Pies - Delete

    Shatter potions - Reduce the maximum of number broken pots to 20.

    -I dont think parry requires a change if splinter and poisoning are taken care of properly.-

    -Armor refinements are fine as they are with the removal of fish pies from pvp.-

  • Acid_RainAcid_Rain Posts: 273
    edited December 2018
    Shatter pots r fine. If u can’t PvP w/o needing pots 100% of the time u need to rework ur template and/or stats. Pots r a buff & shouldn’t be guaranteed 100% anyway. Shatter pots help regulate the buff reliance so many have come to depend on.

    Nerf the parry mage is a bad idea. Tinkering w/ the evasion formula is better. All your doing by raising the DEX requirement is making a solid parry mage template completely out of reach to normal players. Your creating a HUGE disparity between the majority of players in favor of the few high end PvPers that can afford 10plat suits. Parry mage will still be a strong template but now ONLY accessible to a few dozen players that were prob already at or over 95 before this patch (or will have no problem reaching 95).

    I used to Help mediocre players piece together parry mage suits to help them survive longer. (*Survive Longer* is the key phrase because they all still die to any good dexer). With 95 dex, none of them are going to be able to afford armor & will just give up LONG before they save enough gold to afford +20 stat, 12-15 eater, lmc/lrc, resist armor. Your average player does NOT run around in no-name gear. Your effectively killing new players wanting to try a PvP template with survivability by making the suits obtainable to roughly (yes, it’s just my guesstimate) 3% of of the of the player base. Sadly the DEVs have listened to whiners here when the fact is, very few players that try PvP even read this forum. Thanks guys, u changed nothing but made parry mages more elite & close to impossible for normal players. If said players ever came here to read, I’m sure they’d thank you.
  • have you even read the patch notes? the 95 dex requirement didn't even make it to TC and is not included in the actual patch either.
  • OreoglOreogl Posts: 310
    Don’t get the dex nerf to parry.  Would only seem to affect those not rolling around in max mod suits.

    would like to know the thought behind this.  How many parry mages can be left that they keep trying to nerf them out of a useful template?

    there weren’t that many left when I was still pvping, seems ridiculous

  • have you even read the patch notes? the 95 dex requirement didn't even make it to TC and is not included in the actual patch either.
    No, I hadn’t read them. I had only read this thread.

    Thank You Devs for not implementing a horrible idea.
  • Since pvp isn't going to be fixed correctly, Ive moved on to play a different game.  OSI pvp is a joke and isn't any fun and hasn't been for over 4 years.  Enjoy the dead pvp fellas.

  • All illegal 3rd party programs need to be addressed and bannable.
    @ Bleak @ Kyronix @ Mesanna

    They first need to crack down in the mass cheating through 3rd party programs, until that is done none of this would even matter. We were supposed to get a updated list of whats legal or not and no word on it for a long time.
    Best thoughts in the thread have been quoted.

    I’ve pretty much quit most PvP except messing around with friends in duals & mixed number fights. My guild is pretty much dead cause all the honest players that were trying PvP gave up & the few hardcore PvPers quit to join other guilds ( If you can’t beat them, join them). Lack of action or even a sense of caring whether or not folks use 3rd party programs shows abysmal judgement. 
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