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Why should I pay for your mistakes?

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  • MariahMariah Posts: 3,302Moderator
    All the documentation on the animal training systems lists magical creatures and says:
    Training these creatures in other magics will remove any inate magical ability

    It doesn't specifically say that if you train a non-magical creature in a magic, then training in other magics will have the same effect, removing the initial magic ability.  I can add that to the page, however most people who read the publish notes and the ingame documentation may already understand that concept.

  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited April 2023
    "explain to me then please Mariah why people make this mistake?
    Saul has made this mistake
    he is an idiot? and everyone who did this is idiot too? it's a lot of people

    if many people make mistake, it's problem with UI, not user problem for not reading websites"
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • MariahMariah Posts: 3,302Moderator
    I am merely saying that if I add the information to the wiki page it may not help. After all, the wiki page is simply a re-hash of the in game documentation. The little help I can offer is not enough.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited April 2023
    "topic is not about wiki, i don't think anyone made any request to add anything to any wiki

    it's about in game pet training menu, giving option to player to give magic ability more than one time"
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,404
    It should be simple to add warning this will replace existing magic are you sure
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,428
    edited April 2023
    I have a few old pets on TC so I decided to train a Hirya in the Magic ability of Discordance and then train it in the Magic ability of Chivarly and guess what happened

    As this happens on TC I can NOT think of any reason that this same warning would not come up on any shard so if in fact this warning did come up then how is UO to blame.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,276
    drcossack said:
    Pawain said:
    I'm just comparing the way yall are saying players are should just stop whining and go do spawns. And you agree that the PvP part not only requires knowledge but requires skill. My sloth like reflexes will not allow me to be very good at it. And I never liked fighting other players in any game.

    I will play games like Wingspan and Dominion against real people.

    The main point is, use test center, the taming forum, rules of training, and other players to help you learn pet training. A stupid gump is not the answer. 

    Similar to how yall would learn PvP if it was new to you.

    But that's the thing.  pvp is pvp, regardless of where it is.  If you don't know what you're doing, you're going to get steamrolled.  But that's why (if you're able), you LEARN how to defend yourself.  But that, in turn, raises an issue: If a player doesn't do specific content, why are they commenting on it?  Their words carry no weight and come across as whining.  It'd be the same thing as me commenting on crafting (beyond something general like it needing an overhaul, because it's in dire need of one.  Crafted gear shouldn't be on the same level of power as loot from monsters, but the gap between the two is huge) or gardening.

    As far as Test Center: Yeah, you can see what works with pet builds, but it only takes you so far, especially if you want to look at the effects of scrolling out a pet (which, now that I think about it, is another thing that should be on TC: if you use scrolls on a pet, you should have a gate or w/e that just caps out whatever scrolls you've given to it.)  At this point, there's no reason why a server designed to, y'know, TEST THINGS doesn't give you access to literally everything in the game: old event items (like the Shattered Obelisk spellbooks, for those who didn't do either run of the event), the rewards from seasonal dungeon events, and powerscrolls.

    UO, as we all know, is NOT user friendly, and it's absolutely HORRIBLE for a new/returning player.  A product of its era, perhaps?  Don't know.  But I look at some of the other games I've played in recent years.  Final Fantasy 14, as an example.  It has the Hall of the Novice, where it teaches you the basics of the 3 roles (tank, healer, DPS.)  After that, it's all practice.  Gear in FF14 is self-explanatory: as you level up and can equip stronger weapons/armor, your stats go up (MP notwithstanding, that's hard-capped at 10k.)  Both your combat and non-combat (crafting/gathering) skills are given good explanations if you go into the menu.  There are sites you can use to reference various things, but if you're just a casual player and don't want to min/max, you don't need to go to any of them.

    If I want to make anything in UO, I have to do the following: look to see what I want to make (let's say elemental damage weapons), gather the materials and crafting tools, then go into a poorly explained menu that gives me a ton of options that, on the surface, make absolutely no sense.  Which means I have to spend MORE time looking things up on a wiki.  Then, once that's all said and done, comes the imbuing process.  Which involves me getting MORE crafting materials (and looking at a wiki again to see the specific mats I need to use) and (if I want to get everything right) yet ANOTHER player-run site to calculate how I want to distribute the properties I'm looking to add + their intensity.  Admittedly, I tend to be lazy in regards to things like that as is, but that would be a HUGE roadblock if I were actually looking to craft my own gear (which is why I've only ever done it once, on Test Center - when the devs first added Fey Slayer to the list of properties you can imbue on weapons.)
    I used PvP as an example of how the same posters are here saying the pet revamp is too hard bit yall are telling posters to learn to PvP.

    The difference is, you do what the OP did 1 time and you learn not to do it again.

    You die in PvP 1000 times and may never get better.
    You think you could teach me to PvP?  :D
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    “yes has warning, as discussed and displayed in the video.

    but does not say that your points will not be refunded from lost magic”
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,276
    Yoshi said:
    “yes has warning, as discussed and displayed in the video.

    but does not say that your points will not be refunded from lost magic”
    You do not get refunded points for anything in pet training. Where did you come up with the idea that you did?

    I'm all for points refunded. All the pets with magery would be used more if when we changed magics you get the points back for magery and eval.

    The gump says these changes are permanent.  They are. You can switch from Chiv to Discord on the OPs pet for 1 point. The pet keeps the placeholders for the skills.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited April 2023
    “take imbuing menu,
    when you switch hit lightning to hit fireball, you don’t lose points.

    Should state that you will not get points refunded in magic you have already invested in, then people would not make this mistake,

    especially if a player had say spellweaving and during training found was not great and wanted to change to discord on next round (since they were offered it)
    it’s not clear that changing magic would ultimately result in many many lost points.

    but pfff really rather than give better warning, better just to take away the option for adding 2 magics completely”
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,428
    edited April 2023
    Yoshi said:
    “yes has warning, as discussed and displayed in the video.

    but does not say that your points will not be refunded from lost magic”
    You trained it in the first magic which uses points and it tell you that magic will be erased and you expect to get the points back, what planet do you live on.  You made the mistake and you were warned so man up and live with it.  When you train the 2nd Magic it says how many points that it will cost you, if it was designed to not cost you points then it would say 0 or 1 point but in fact it said 500 points so I guess maybe using a little common sense might come into play that oh wait a minute that screen says that it will cost me another 500 points and wipe out the other magic like the warning says. @Mariah could you add to the Wiki that if you do do this the points will not be refunded
  • RockoRocko Posts: 174
    Grimbeard said:
    It should be simple to add warning this will replace existing magic are you sure
    Do you mean an in game pop up warning?  That would be good.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,404
    See i never knew about warning gump so forced to agree with paddy cakes here
  • MariahMariah Posts: 3,302Moderator
    Lord_Frodo said:
     Mariah could you add to the Wiki that if you do do this the points will not be refunded

    Done :)
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,428
    Mariah said:
    Lord_Frodo said:
     Mariah could you add to the Wiki that if you do do this the points will not be refunded

    Done :)
    TYVM
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited April 2023
    "i agree somewhat with Frodo as yes it does show the points. So the user could indeed deduce from the information given that doing this would be bad.

    But something is not clear somewhere, i am not sure exactly what the mentality is of players who make the mistakes.

    Just that mistakes are being made, and very often, and costly ones at that

    Let me perhaps talk about another phenomenon, if you get trained to click through gumps, the gumps often are meaningless.
    The so called warning gump was not really a warning, more of a confirmation.

    For example i just started the training process of a dog
    and you're presented with a very similar gump
    that is not really warning you of much at all

    user is immediately taught to continue press Yes and nothing bad will happen"



    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,276
    Grimbeard said:
    See i never knew about warning gump so forced to agree with paddy cakes here
    Just like the log in announcements,  players just click past it.

    Each round you accept ALL CHANGES YOU MAKE WILL BE PERMANENT. 
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,428
    Grimbeard said:
    See i never knew about warning gump so forced to agree with paddy cakes here
    I did not know about the ingame warning but CAH warns you (so I never did it ingame) about this when you are planning your pets out and I do not know ANY tames that do not use this site to pre-plan all their pets.  Even CAH show you using the points at 500 a pop.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,404
    Pawain said:
    Grimbeard said:
    See i never knew about warning gump so forced to agree with paddy cakes here
    Just like the log in announcements,  players just click past it.

    Each round you accept ALL CHANGES YOU MAKE WILL BE PERMANENT. 
    I could suggest people fly by the login announcements because there's stuff from 5 years ago still there i mean when was high seas released? 
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,428
    Yoshi said:
    Just that mistakes are being made, and very often, and costly ones at that

    This is the first time I have seen a post about this so where are you coming up with the BS that this happens OFTEN.  If it was in fact happening OFTEN there would be a lot more posts about this.  I am sure that when Pet Training first came out that this may have happen a few times and I will state 100% that the Tames did this did not whine about it but did give warning about it.  Funny how Mervyn/ Yoshi didn't warn players about this 3 years ago, we thought you knew it all.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited April 2023
      Funny how Mervyn/ Yoshi didn't warn players about this 3 years ago, we thought you knew it all.


    this post claims the video was posted a year prior too, so i'll find that source


    but i heard in varrious discords many times of people messing up their pets.

    even people now only give bane dragons to professionals are they are scared of messing it up, then get it transferred back


    I am certain Saul is not special"


    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • Victim_Of_SiegeVictim_Of_Siege Posts: 2,162
    Grimbeard said:
    See i never knew about warning gump so forced to agree with paddy cakes here
    Bet that was typed through gritted teeth  :D
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited April 2023
    "there are good arguments indeed and i do agree with Pawain and Frodo that user is ultimately responsible for messing up their pet,

    but for it to happen so often, i feel the UI could be more user friendly"
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,428
    Yoshi said:
    "there are good arguments indeed and i do agree with Pawain and Frodo that user is ultimately responsible for messing up their pet,

    but for it to happen so often, i feel the UI could be more user friendly"
    Where do you get this OFTEN BS from.  This is one person and as yet no other person has posted I did this also.  As norm you are over inflating a problem just like you did with the auto stable.  Yes I am sorry that the OP lost those points but mistakes do happen and we all learn from our mistakes.  I lost the first house I owned in Fel as a NOOB because I had my house key in my BP when I was killed by a PKer, never made that mistake again and yes my Guild teased me about it and later helped me find another spot
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited April 2023
    "i guess this guy must be talking BS too then back in July 2018:"
    Screenshot;

    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,276
    Yoshi said:
    "i guess this guy must be talking BS too then back in July 2018:"
    Screenshot;

    Dude that post does not say anything about this Oringinal topic.  That is someone complaining about how magery on a pet sux. Then the reply was someone wanting the points back if you replace magery.

    We have asked for points back for replacing magery .  Kyronix said, not gonna happen. 
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,428
    Yoshi said:
    "i guess this guy must be talking BS too then back in July 2018:"
    Screenshot;

    Even if you stretched it a LOT this isn't even close to what happened to the OP and it is a 5 year old post so I guess that is what you consider as OFTEN. LMAO  Now @Yoshi is rewriting definitions to words
    often: frequently; many times:
    Yoshi often: once in a blue moon as in one time 
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,404
    See the sugar trolling bunch at work..
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,276
    edited April 2023
    Grimbeard said:
    See the sugar trolling bunch at work..
    Well should we sit back and let him claim his link is showing players erasing a Magic that they wanted to keep, when it is not. Pot calling the kettle black.


    It seems he tricked Frodo though...
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,404
    Pawain said:
    Grimbeard said:
    See the sugar trolling bunch at work..
    Well should we sit back and let him claim his link is showing players erasing a Magic that they wanted to keep, when it is not. Pot calling the kettle black.


    It seems he tricked Frodo though...
    It's your mistaken belief that the developers need you to protect them 
This discussion has been closed.