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Comments
The same reason people played daily before ML when armor didn't even matter. The thrill of the hunt? Quality time with friends? Stuff to sell?
Don't act like everyone will suddenly stop farming for crafting which is the lulz.
We've really needed a middle ground for years.
As player characters have legendary skills, then why call them legendary when they can't craft the best item in the game. All they need to do is tweak the type of ingredients... make a sword out of meteorite rocks or Virtuebane's bone, etc.
ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
It was only fun then because we could still get upgraded loot and we did not know any better.
Work is work, whether it is a fighter's work or a crafter's work effort.
It all depends on how the Developers Design and code the effort to be invested by players in either aspect of gameplay.
Fighters may have dangerousness as their complicacy aspect, Crafters, instead, may have the difficulty in their crafting process as theirs....
I do not see why Crafting should be seen as "under par" as compared to fighting... to me, they should be seen equally, as on the same level and footing and it just depends on how both are Designed and coded but sure thing, crafting can be Designed to have its difficulties and complexities.
It should be so complicated, complex and time consuming, that players who enjoy fighting, would never want to be bothered with crafting leaving it to crafters who, instead, would still get into it because highly motivated by their enjoyment from crafting gameplay.
The argument being, that not only players with fighting characters and crafting "mules" reduce demand for Crafted Wares, necessarily, since they are self sufficient having a fighting character to gather materials and then a crafting "mule" to make for their crafter whatever crafted items they want/need and so do not need to buy crafted items from Crafters (which reduces demand) BUT, can also undersell players who use Crafters as their mains since players with fighting characters do not pay for their crafting materials as they can gather their own and can, therefore, price items which their "mule" crafter was to make, at a much lower price as compared to players who have Crafter characters as their main, might be able to sell, when they have to be subject to a price "monopoly" from fighting characters who gather the resources....
And we have seen what happened with Mondain's Legacy crafting materials sourced from fighting who quickly reached a ridicolous high price and contributed to the raise of inflation in Ultima Online which did so much bad to the game's economy and the demise as Crafters used in Utima Online as a "main" character....
Fighters kill to get rare ingredients
Crafters use such ingredients to craft weapons for fighters.
They are always dependent on the other, even in real life.
You might as well play Sim city
ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
omg...
ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
Most of my characters have a mix of pieces in their suits, some crafted, some looted (mostly out of those 'crap' treasure chests) and some special artifact drops.
I am also part of an alliance that stocks a shop. In that shop we sell simply, cheaply crafted weapons and basic imbued LRC suits. While some players believe that those suits aren't fit to train it, that doesn't stop the vendor selling out on a regular and frequent basis.
Not everyone plays enough, and on a sufficiently high skill level, to afford the mega-million priced armor pieces. Someone has to cater for those. We do.
High level crafting exists, making things like britches of warding, scholar's halo, cuffs of the archmage etc.
And the end result of such, to my opinion, broken Design is that inevitably all players end up having to have, necessarily, a fighter and a crafter, even if some of them prefer mostly or only fighting and some others only or mostly crafting....
The difficulties for fighting should be Designed and revolve around Fighting while instead, the difficulties for crafting should be Designed and revolve around Crafting.
"Mixing up" the 2 as I tried to explain in my post above, only results in all players eventually realizing that they all have to have BOTH a fighter and a crafter to get going.... and this, whether they primarilt enjoy fighting gameplay or whether they primarily enjoy crafting gameplay.....
And if all players have both a fighter and a crafter to get going, nobody needs to buy crafted wares because they can make their own (self-sufficiency) and crafting in that game dies out.... as it pretty much did in Ultima Online, me thinks.....
If you don't want to subscribe to this then go play Siege as whatever template you want and be dependent on the other templates to play the game.
How quickly your argument will fall apart when you opt to only be a craftsman (btw - at this point we know you have at one fighter/tamer/thief) and nobody wants to buy your wares. Then what do you do? Would you cry about how the game is broken because people aren't being forced to buy the things you make or would you just hop on one of your other characters and go fight stuff?
My caster training suits are made of unusable cursed and antique items. Most pieces are +10mana 5int 4mr that decrease training time by hours with stats you just can't imbue.
Again, the exact reason for this and it applies to imbuing only. Just because someone doesn't have time to grind and monster bash doesn't mean they should never have access to upper quality pieces that could be obtained from crafting.
Decent armor should NOT just be a luxury for the rich. Special drops like cameos and high end crafted pieces like max luck and feudal grips should.
Yet, a Profession necessarily involves being a paid "service" to others.... crafting wares to oneself, is NOT a Profession, in my book....
So, if we have all UO players eventually ending up with Fighters AND Crafters, crafting ENDS being a Profession because all players, or pretty much most of them , become self-sufficient and can craft their own wares.
And, basically, this is the current status of Ultima Online, to my viewing.... Crafting is no longer pretty much a "Profession" and most players have crafting "mules" which they use to support their "main" Fighting characters.
This KILLS Crafting as a "main" gameplay Profession, effectively.
In order to re-store Crafting as a real and complete Profession in Ultima Online, it would be necessary, as I see it, to make crafting a complex and time consuming endeavour big enough for those players mainly enjoying fighting not to want to deal with it (and thus be willing to buy from those players playing Crafting as their "main" occupation in UO) but, STILL, viable and enjoyable for those players who, instead, want to play Crafters as their "Main" occupation in Ultima Online.
I'd be happy with antique if it were comparable stats and relatively easy to craft. The brittle loot drops would still be sought after but crafters could make quality replacements if need be.
Secondly, players have been using alts to accomplish things since the beginning of UO. By your logic, we shouldn't have tamers on the same account as fighters because we shouldn't be using them to tame mounts (swamp dragons/beetles/hiryus/etc). So why do you have a tamer? We also shouldn't have a mage or bard on a fighter account because we should be fighting all content with one single fighter and if we want to have a bard or mage, then we should be forced to hire them or have them added to our group (instead of switching chars).
Third... this is Ultima Online, there isn't one single "main" profession. You are trying to argue like a warrior is but how about when he needs repairs? He cannot do it without another character creating repair deeds. Everything is intertwined. A brand new player can't go fight high end content and the loot they will start out with sucks compared to crafted armor so they will surely be better off there until they can go find legendary artifacts. Even when they do start finding artifacts... chances are that they still will need some pieces as crafted until they fill the gaps. I.E. crafting is still relevant.
I could go on with a fourth/fifth/tenth reason but it doesn't matter because you just want to argue.
I just want to highlight the main thing i saw out of your argument. You literally said you want to make crafting complex & time consuming. This is coming from the exact same person asking a gazillion questions about every topic and acting like this game is just too hard to understand and that it takes too long to do anything.
I'll leave you with this. The problem isn't about crafting not being a centerpiece in UO. The fundamental problem is that there is no longer the population there used to be on the average shard. This means that there are less people in general doing things at any given time. That means that people have needed to become more self-sufficient. That isn't going to change. So even if crafting became whatever hot mess you are trying to make it; at the end of the day if I can't find someone to make whatever it is I need from a crafter (without spending hours spamming), I'm going to end up doing it on my own crafter. That makes your entire idea null & void because that's what your argument currently is because at the end of the day people don't want to sit around for hours relying on someone else to do something in order for them to play the game. That is how you lose even more subscriptions.
You can not make something hard to get, the power gamers will have a thousand of them in a day. Just like they were getting 300 eggs an hour even tho everyone said they could not find eggs because of Bots.
A pool should me made for this:
How long after NL is live will Popps will write a Novel about so many people are already at max skill and he is barely begun.
In regards to the 2nd argument which you bring up, as I said, "self-sufficiency", which it is players having characters in both Fighting and Crafting skills, makes it pointless to actually need to use Crafting as a "trade" skill.... guess why ?
Because most players can craft their own stuff for their other characters..... so, Crafting ends being a "Profession" since there is no longer any serious trading coming from it.
On the Third argument that you raise, it goes with my reply to your 2nd argument.... when the Design of the game eventually gets most players to have BOTH Fighting and Crafting characters, players do not need a Crafter "Main" playing player to make them Repair deeds.... they will get their Crafting "mule" and make their own.....
Everything being intertwined ? How so, when the Design of the related game content gets players, eventually, to get both Fighting and Crafting characters under their control ?
Sure, new players might be an exception but ONLY, because they have not yet had the time to BOTH develop a Fighting character AND a Crafting character but, given time, eventually they also will have both types and become self-sufficient in their needs so, I do not see where this "intertwined" is at all.....
Absolutely.
Since Accounts can have 7 characters, and on top of that there is also Endless Journey characters that players can have for free, there is no other realistic way to bring some serious Crafting as a "Main" occupation for those who enjoy this type of gameplay, to my viewing, but to make Crafting seriously complex and time consuming so as to be intimidating to those players who prefer fighting gameplay and do not want to spend much effort nor much of their in-game time into Crafting BUT, at the same time, such Crafting complexity and time consuming endeavour would not intimidate those players who actually prefer Crafting to Fighting for their Ultima Online in-game experience.
And I also disagree on your last account where you indicate a Low Population to be the reason for the lack of Crafting gameplay... players started making Crafting "Mules" long before UO Population started to dwindle.... some players did it because they gathered the materials with their Fighters and, therefore, thought it as more beneficial to them to "save up" on Crafting costs by making their personal crafting "mules", some other players did it because they did not want to spend time in looking for Crafters to make them items.... whatever the reasons, though, the end result was still the same..... most players becoming self-sufficient and this brought Crafting in UO onto its knees..... no longer viable as an in-game "Main" Profession.....
I prefer the way that UO has worked for 25 years. You kill this, you can get these. The way certain things only come from certain encounters makes UO last 25 years. If we all could get the same items from everything, why would they need to make all the encounters?
I do not like the idea of these ingredients, they should have converted the Doom rewards to the new stuff instead of making us craft them from the old stuff.
Crafting should stay mid game items.