Damage Modifiers beyond the first are being calculated proportionally rather than additively.

Arroth_ThaielArroth_Thaiel Posts: 1,033
I'm reporting this as a bug. It might be intended, but the effect is fairly significant, so probably a bug.

This has been tested with many modifiers and stat/skill combinations, both on Test Center and on Pacific. It works it all instances.

I'm just me, I did the testing, I still could have made a mistake and missed something about how the calculations are made...so, I could just be wrong.
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From what we as players understand about how modifier damage works, using Enemy of One (EoO) would add the EoO % directly to the base modifier:


Modifier from a Super Slayer (SS) would be added similarly:


If we were to use both EoO and SS, we expect these modifiers to be added to the base modifier at the percentages indicated in the tooltip or the item property description:


However, if you test out the damage ranges you actually see on creatures, using EoO and a SS are not producing a 2.82 modifier, they are putting you at the modifier cap for the creature, just as if you'd used a 200% targeted slayer.

If you are using just EoO or SS, the damage is correct and as we as players understand it. However, if you use both, the damage is much higher than would be expected. In effect you are achieving the modifier cap with far less modifier than expected.

Going through the math, modifiers other than the base and first modifier, are being calculated proportionally to the total of the base + first modifier (regardless of the order of calculation).

In the case of EoO and SS, the math would look like this:



If you use Stone Form and a Super Slayer, you are not yet at the modifier cap, and the resulting damage seen in game can only be calculated if the modifiers are proportional:



This effect can be used to reach modifier cap relatively easily, bypassing many of the gear requirements in game. 

A Chivalry (84) EoO (50%) cast combined with a Slayer Talisman will put you at the modifier cap of 300:


A Chivalry (120) EoO (82%) cast combined with Mace Mastery III Stagger (Warrior's Gifts automatically applied) will put you at the modifier cap for any creature in the game:


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I have tried various combos of modifiers, skills, and stats, on both TC and Pac. This effect is in place regardless of skill in Chivalry, Bushido, Necromancy, or Ninjitsu, regardless of Anatomy or Tactics skill, and anywhere between 99 and 150 Str.

I have tested the following modifiers, and all are proportional if more than one modifier is used:

- Momentum Strike
- Enemy of One
- Armor Pierce
- Honor Self
- Stagger
- Thrust
- Super Slayer Weapon
- Slayer Talisman
- Stone Form
- Warrior's Gifts

I believe all modifiers are calculated proportionally if more than one modifier is used.

-Arroth

Comments

  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited July 2022
    "hmm
    is there any preference of order that these are calculated?
    or it just depends on which is equiped/activated first?

    either way i agree they should be added additively"
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited July 2022
    “this could be working as intended. (As stated in OP)
    also I just realised I asked a very stupid question as the result is the same no matter what order they are added.

    Probably is working as intended
    nice work though @Arroth_Thaiel

    Actually @Lynk already discovered this was how the damage is calculated for the 300% cap
    https://forum.uo.com/discussion/7749/consecrate-weapon-enemy-of-one-not-working-properly-in-pvp#latest

    He described Damage Modifier as multaplicative”
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  • Arroth_ThaielArroth_Thaiel Posts: 1,033
    I should be specific that what I'm talking about in this thread is PvE damage, what Lynk is talking about is PvP damage.

    Lynk can correct me if I'm wrong, but the subject of Lynk's thread is that CW and EoO are being calculated as modifier in PvE, but damage increase in PvP.

    The subject of this thread is that PvE modifiers are not being calculated as players have long believed, leading to much easier methods to hit the 300% modifier cap. These modifiers are not being calculated as damage increase, they are still being calculated as modifiers, just not in the way I, and many others, thought they were.

    These are two separate discussions about two different portions of the damage calculation. At least as far as I can tell.

    Meh...it's UO.
    -Arroth
  • quickbladequickblade Posts: 306
    edited July 2022
    First of all , you show stone form as if it was normal damage increase % but it's not. 
    The tooltip is wrong and it is +20% damage modifier on melee attacks on the 'final dmg after resistances'

    Two questions,were you using melee or archer in your test, were you on the warrior's gift passive? Because it is 5% damage modifier and not damage increase, just as stone form, on the final damage after resists.

    But for all the rest you could possibly be right , I always wondered if EoO was +50% on your base damage or +50% on the total damage increases +base .
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    First of all , you show stone form as if it was normal damage increase % but it's not. 
    The tooltip is wrong and it is +20% damage modifier on the 'final dmg'.



    "All of the damages he listed are damage modifier, he is aware the tooltip is wrong, there is also  seperate bug report for the stone form tooltip being wrong"
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  • quickbladequickblade Posts: 306
    edited July 2022
    Damage modifiers (also called damage increase for the 300% cap)  such as slayers or abilities, are not the same damage modifiers as the quiver 10%, stone form 20% and warrior's gift 5%. These 3 are damage modifiers on the final damage after resistances calculated
  • @Arroth_Thaiel I don't have the time atm to fully look over, calculate, and/or confirm what you posted. But here is a copy/paste from my post on Stratics circa 2020 which should still be correct afaik. Damage increase cap is calculated first, followed by damage modifier/multiplier.
    *I edited a few words from Stratics for clarity*


    For the initial damage increase cap (300 cap):
    Damage Increase from items = 100 *** Divine Fury spell will add up to 20% damage increase as part of this 100 cap
    120 Tactics then (120/1.6) + 6.25 = 81.25
    120 Anatomy then (120/2) +5 = 65
    150 Strength then (150*.3) +5 = 50
    This gives a total of 296.25 which means its impossible to hit 300 here unless you have LJ and/or use divine fury.

    20 LJ (Skill Level/5) *if below GM* will add 4.0, reaching the 300 cap. (Human JOAT or real skill)
    GM LJ (Skill level/5) + 10 = 30

    Note: The above is the old official formula. However, it appears that LJ will take you above the 300 cap. It needs further testing to see true numbers. But I did a very brief test and this 300 cap doesn't appear to exist any more.

    For the damage modifier cap (300 cap) *aka damage multiplier*:
    You always have 100 damage Modifier. In other words, you will always swing for 100% of your base damage before monster resists are calculated. From there, you can add these on top of that 100:
    Specific Slayer (+200%)
    Super Slayer (+100%)
    Perfection (+100%) ***10% per level (hit), maxed at 100%
    Enemy of One (up to 82%) ***based on chiv skill and (possibly) karma
    Honor Self (25%)
    Consecrate Weapon ( up to 16%) ***based on chiv skill and (possibly) karma
    Bard Song Inspire (up to 15%) ***based on bard skills
    Some Quivers (10%) *** I haven't tested. But it only works on archery weapons per Tabin
    Grapes of Wrath (10%)
    Level 3 Weapon Mastery (5%)

    *karma level still untested as of 08Jul22.*

  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited July 2022
    Damage modifiers (also called damage increase for the 300% cap)  such as slayers or abilities, are not the same damage modifiers as the quiver 10%, stone form 20% and warrior's gift 5%. These 3 are damage modifiers on the final damage after resistances calculated
    “There are 2 types of damage modifier (300% cap)??
    Are the slayers modifier not calculated after resistances?
    Shall we continue the technical discussion here?
    https://forum.uo.com/discussion/10919/melee-damage-calculation-diagram#latest

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  • Arroth_ThaielArroth_Thaiel Posts: 1,033
    Guys, relax.

    I am well aware of how the damage system works. 

    This thread is so that if this is a bug, it's officially reported and Misk can put it into the system. If not, huge benefit to the players. 

    The dev team has the server logs. They know how much time I spent on TC working with this stuff. They can see from the other thread how I went about getting the information. They know I'm not just making stuff up randomly. Actually, anyone can see from the other thread how I went about getting the information.

    There is quite a bit of information omitted (or no longer accurate) from either the official wiki, UOGuide, and/or Stratics, about the damage flow, where rounding occurs, and where in the damage flow and to what intensity damage systems are applied.

    I wanted to verify what information was out there (quite a bit of it is somewhat off) and fill in areas where little information existed. So, I did.

    This thread is just about the damage modifier portion of the calculation, and how modifiers are calculated, that's all. 

    It's ok, chill...

    Misk, Bleak, and Big-K can see what's going on. They know if it's a bug or not.
    -Arroth
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited July 2022
    “I don’t doubt the figures.
    but unless there is actually a problem (and I can’t see one). It will be deemed working as intended, as no action required is the default position.

    Considering how they treated fey slayer - super slayer dealing single slayer damage. This was deemed working as intended so Arroth you have almost no chance of this being deemed anything other than working as intended, and I would accept that.”
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