Suggestion: Make spellbooks non-disarmable

I think it's pretty safe to say there's a very specific PvP meta right now and I've been thinking of ideas on how to break it. One thing I'd love to see are more mages that are of different build than the standard Parry Mage / Parry Mage + something.

If spellbooks weren't disarmable, but still blocked potions it'll unlock many more options for equipment and encourage people to try a build without a shield (to allow for potions) and use some of the many spellbooks available. Otherwise, the risk of losing FC/FCR or even DCI due to being disarmed of a spellbook makes shields a lot more valuable still.

I'm guessing even if that changed were to happen people would still vastly prefer shields because not having parrying skill is quite dangerous vs dexxers, but at least we'll have more options to play with and try some new interesting things!

Comments

  • Pure mage really shouldn't be a thing anymore leave that spec on New Legacy.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 1,796
    What's the advantage ? 
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,221
    Pure mage really shouldn't be a thing anymore leave that spec on New Legacy.
    Why not?

    Pure mage variations, should absolutely be a thing?

    Not everyone wants to have to have parry, or a weapon, the point of a mage from a role-play perspective is it is a learned character, that uses spells, and books.
  • TimStTimSt Posts: 1,759
    How about a spell book strap that straps the spell book to the character's hand making it non-disarmable?
  • Cookie said:
    Pure mage really shouldn't be a thing anymore leave that spec on New Legacy.
    Why not?

    Pure mage variations, should absolutely be a thing?

    Not everyone wants to have to have parry, or a weapon, the point of a mage from a role-play perspective is it is a learned character, that uses spells, and books.

    Because there is no way to make a pure mage competitive and trying will just further hurt the game.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,221
    Cookie said:
    Pure mage really shouldn't be a thing anymore leave that spec on New Legacy.
    Why not?

    Pure mage variations, should absolutely be a thing?

    Not everyone wants to have to have parry, or a weapon, the point of a mage from a role-play perspective is it is a learned character, that uses spells, and books.

    Because there is no way to make a pure mage competitive and trying will just further hurt the game.
    I'd have to disagree, I'm always trying to suggest stuff.

    Saying there is no place for one of the most popular and nostalgic templates, is bit of a huge admission of failure, and complete admission it is dexxer online, which many of us hate.
  • Cookie said:
    Cookie said:
    Pure mage really shouldn't be a thing anymore leave that spec on New Legacy.
    Why not?

    Pure mage variations, should absolutely be a thing?

    Not everyone wants to have to have parry, or a weapon, the point of a mage from a role-play perspective is it is a learned character, that uses spells, and books.

    Because there is no way to make a pure mage competitive and trying will just further hurt the game.
    I'd have to disagree, I'm always trying to suggest stuff.

    Saying there is no place for one of the most popular and nostalgic templates, is bit of a huge admission of failure, and complete admission it is dexxer online, which many of us hate.

    There is a place. New Legacy created for nostalgia.

    You can't make a pure mage competitive against a bokuto mage in terms of value at best you are going to attempt is to make a pure mage a glass cannon.
    Pure Mage can't utilize skill increase as effectively as hybrid templates because secondary skills are very minimal.

    But please enlighten the world on how you can make a pure mage viable while losing access to all defensive capabilities of a hybrid template and the offensive ones like splinter and nerve strike.

    Not to mention if you did buff pure mage they would still be using Mage weapons to get splinter hits because thats the most efficient way.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,221
    edited August 2023

    There is a place. New Legacy created for nostalgia.

    You can't make a pure mage competitive against a bokuto mage in terms of value at best you are going to attempt is to make a pure mage a glass cannon.
    Pure Mage can't utilize skill increase as effectively as hybrid templates because secondary skills are very minimal.

    But please enlighten the world on how you can make a pure mage viable while losing access to all defensive capabilities of a hybrid template and the offensive ones like splinter and nerve strike.

    Not to mention if you did buff pure mage they would still be using Mage weapons to get splinter hits because thats the most efficient way.

    I agree with your analysis here tbh. I'm not saying I have the answers, but I don;t think we should not be trying, as it does happen to be one of the most popular UO templates of all time, and everyone knows it is screwed up.



    Because there is no way to make a pure mage competitive and trying will just further hurt the game.
    It was this comment, whilst I may not have the answers, I just have to disagree on principle.



    Ok - 1 suggestion coming up - I put it in my reward list for the next event - think about it, give me your opinion :)

    Reward;
    Spellbook;
    HCI 15%
    Hit Lightning 50%.
    Edit - added one - Splinter 30%.
    Edit - added two - Hit Lower Defence 50%.

    What do you think that would do, impact-wise?
    I'd be interested in you exploring, and seeing where that will go - I know in my head :)
    But again, I agree, many people's suggestions are not the whole answer.

    I think I just made pure mages viable. :)

  • ShaneeShanee Posts: 11
    I'd even love to see Drogeni’s Spell Book being usable without the risk of disarm. I'd still use wrestling, but drop parrying for a mage skill and try some new ideas.
  • TXEggplantTXEggplant Posts: 160
    Why can't we imbue spellbooks?
    Maith Ceol, Chesapeake
    Governor of Moonglow

    Discord: txeggplant
    maithceol@gmail.com
  • Cookie said:
    Cookie said:
    Pure mage really shouldn't be a thing anymore leave that spec on New Legacy.
    Why not?

    Pure mage variations, should absolutely be a thing?

    Not everyone wants to have to have parry, or a weapon, the point of a mage from a role-play perspective is it is a learned character, that uses spells, and books.

    Because there is no way to make a pure mage competitive and trying will just further hurt the game.
    I'd have to disagree, I'm always trying to suggest stuff.

    Saying there is no place for one of the most popular and nostalgic templates, is bit of a huge admission of failure, and complete admission it is dexxer online, which many of us hate.

    There is a place. New Legacy created for nostalgia.

    You can't make a pure mage competitive against a bokuto mage in terms of value at best you are going to attempt is to make a pure mage a glass cannon.
    Pure Mage can't utilize skill increase as effectively as hybrid templates because secondary skills are very minimal.

    But please enlighten the world on how you can make a pure mage viable while losing access to all defensive capabilities of a hybrid template and the offensive ones like splinter and nerve strike.

    Not to mention if you did buff pure mage they would still be using Mage weapons to get splinter hits because thats the most efficient way.

    The best way to buff pure mage is to nerf bokuto mage.

    Nerve strike needs a huge damage nerf. That will mean, you either are a tanky bushido mage that does less damage but has decent survivability or nerf evasion when magery is above 40 so that you don't evade, making you an offensive character that has less survivability. Not best of both worlds of huge damage and crowd control with huge defensive capabilities vs mages AND dexers.

    Bokuto mages are the worst thing this game has ever produced.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,221
    edited August 2023
    Bokuto mages are the worst thing this game has ever produced.

    Sampires ? :)

    I had to explain to my son how this comes from Japanese culture of Samurai's merged into Transylvanian culture of Vampires...

    That was a difficult conversation...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,221
    edited August 2023
    The best way to buff pure mage is to nerf bokuto mage.

    They've never been heavily into nerfing, which I understand, so I'm trying to close the gap a bit.

    And also, this does not deal with what Warriors can do.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 1,796
    I still don't understand why having a spellbook disarmed is bad?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,221
    edited August 2023
    Grimbeard said:
    I still don't understand why having a spellbook disarmed is bad?
    The OP is talking about the pvp Mage meta's of Parry Mages, which basically exist because of how much defence they require to stand a chance of survival against all the current weapon templates. So you need a shield.

    The OP would like to use a spellbook such as Drogeni’s Spell Book;
    • Magery +20
    • Enhanced Potions 25%
    • Defense Chance Increase 15%
    • Spell Damage Increase 15%
    • Faster Cast Recovery 3
    • Faster Casting 1

    Which has great stats, and is a nice spellbook, but has got a lot of a Mages critical properties on it, for survival and basic functioning.

    The OP is discussing not using a shield, which would put them at a massive disadvantage, in order to use this book, which would then get disarmed and render the mage pretty much devoid of all properties in pvp.

    Note - Warriors - usually focus their attacking properties on their weapon - so when they are disarmed, it does not hurt their defensive game so much - yes, it completely neutralises their ability to attack, but not stay alive.

    You need 1 hand free as a pvp mage, to use potions. 

    That particular set of Stats are pretty much Identical - to a set of Properties I requested to be put on an Indestructable set of Jewels for PvP Mages, as that is where those properties would naturally belong. I still stand by this - Ring with DCI, Bracelet with HCI maybe.

    My personal opinion re the OP request;
    I think the logic behind it is reasonable,
    1. Wanting to use a pure mage
    2. Wanting to use Drogeni's spellbook which does have nice stats on it.

    I think the problems with the request are;
    1. Making the main-hand non-disarmable - I don't know how possible for the Dev team this is, and it makes quite an unusual change in the game mechanics.
    2. Even if implemented, I am not sure it is enough to get people back onto Pure Mages.

    So my solution, which has the same intent in 1 sense - wanting to use a pure mage, but not the other - using Dragoni's spellbook (I think this spellbook is for pvmers only, sadly);

    1. I have put the Attack Properties onto the spellbook (which mirror a lot of what all Warriors are using as their meta currently) - which can still be disarmed, and will function like a warrior, with their weapon, it just removes all the attack properties if disarmed.
    2. I still think something along the lines of Drogeni's spellbook properties should be put onto a PvP set of jewels, that are along the lines of the PvM Clean-up rewards Soleil Rouge and Etoile Blue sets and Indestructable.
    3. The attack property spellbook could function with Wrestle, with Wrestle Specials, and with Wrestle Masteries - it would bring the whole Wrestle function back into the game, which is part of the Pure Mages armoury. Wrestle Masteries are currently NEVER used - it is partly their weakness which make Pure Mages unviable. This could be strengthed, to help Pure Mages.
    4. The mage could chose to have, or drop parry, noting if they kept Parry, they would be 2 handed, and would have to chose what to drop for potions which are also critical. With this entire option set available - I believe some pure mages may be more inclined to drop parry, to focus on the more pure mage set of skills. Dropping Parry - would also release additional SDI, and open up some skillpoints for another pure type skill, such as Scribe, Alchemy or Poison. All these options, would make Pure Mages more attractive.

  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 1,796
    I fully support giving pvpers leet things as long as 
    A.they work only in fel and must be bought with cursed drops earned in fel
    B.and most importantly nothing done for them effects pvm ie:ninja nerf
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,221
    Grimbeard said:
    I fully support giving pvpers leet things as long as 
    A.they work only in fel and must be bought with cursed drops earned in fel
    B.and most importantly nothing done for them effects pvm ie:ninja nerf
    a. I'm happy to earn them :)

    b. Nothing about this affects pvm. :)
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,122
    Cookie said:
    The best way to buff pure mage is to nerf bokuto mage.

    They've never been heavily into nerfing, which I understand, so I'm trying to close the gap a bit.

    And also, this does not deal with what Warriors can do.
    LMAO  They nerfed the hell out of Tames and their pets because of the PvP whinners.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,221
    edited August 2023
    Cookie said:
    The best way to buff pure mage is to nerf bokuto mage.

    They've never been heavily into nerfing, which I understand, so I'm trying to close the gap a bit.

    And also, this does not deal with what Warriors can do.
    LMAO  They nerfed the hell out of Tames and their pets because of the PvP whinners.
    When, how so ?

    And I would be more valid in saying they nerfed the hell out of PvP and UO because of PvM Whiners :)

    This bitterness does not usually get us far, even though I admit I'm still trying to get Trammel deleted, and all loot drops taken away from Trammel :)

  • You guys need to accept reality.

    As long as there is an uncapped Skill Point system a pure mage can never be viable. Other templates can do everything your pure mage can do, but better and then some.  You cannot buff the secondary skills because of risk of better templates using skill increase to fit them in.

    A on hit spellbook is not making a pure mage a better option but it is making a Mystic Wrestle Parry mage even stronger. I'd bet with 3rd party clients you can probably make a macro to disarm/drink potion/re-arm spellbook pretty much instantaneous so the argument of using both hands is inaccurate.

    Even if Nerve Strike damage was nerfed to 0. A bokuto mage is still a far superior option to pure mage because the potential of Splinter + Hit Spell on top of the actual stun from Nerve Strike is far superior to anything a pure mage can do. Then factor in Evasion and Confidence and you are no match.


    At minimum you would need something like a new Inscription mastery added that provides a passive SDI bonus ontop of the normal inscription bonus. And a spell damage absorption shield spell.  Probably would need an Inscribe powerscroll as well.  But you can't get the buffs secondary skills need because of the risk a bokuto mage using skill increase to fit in an extra 100 points of skills to pick up inscription and be even stronger.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,221
    edited August 2023
    I accept you could keep parry, and I accept you could probably get 3rd party clients to chose the potions/rearm spellbook for you.

    However, with the wrestle options being stronger, it gives more potential to drop parry, and pick up scribe for more SDI/or alchy, or poison. Don't forget Alchemist Bracers could come into play also. I'm not saying it would fix everything, but I am saying, it makes the pure mage option far more viable, and may persuade some parry mages to switch out.

    Yes, ultimately, I am saying, it would make mages without a weapon stronger - parry or otherwise - that is also the point. Part of this, is to get mages to switch away from weapons also.

    I do get your points re Inscription Mastery also, that could be explored.


  • At minimum you would need something like a new Inscription mastery added that provides a passive SDI bonus ontop of the normal inscription bonus. And a spell damage absorption shield spell.  Probably would need an Inscribe powerscroll as well.  But you can't get the buffs secondary skills need because of the risk a bokuto mage using skill increase to fit in an extra 100 points of skills to pick up inscription and be even stronger.

    Have you tested back-to-back scribe sdi bonus? It's a massive waste of 100 skill points.

    Again, requires attention from Devs that they do not want to give. 

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