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Fire Beetle cannot get special move Armor Ignore

BloodgetBloodget Posts: 2
in Bugs
Fire Beetle cannot get special move Armor Ignore.  It currently has Poisoning and Rune Corruption.
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Comments

  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited May 2023
    "hmm, not much information here,
    Can you perhaps show us screenshots of pet lore gump.
    And explain what options you chose already.

    As a prelim i think this issue has already been reported

    don't know why it hasn't been fixed yet if that is the issue, lol its 5 years old bug report

    (Pawain will prob tell you its user error for some reason)"



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  • MariahMariah Posts: 3,286Moderator
    I believe the order in which you make your selections matters. Which is why the publish notes, and the page in the wiki derived from them, says:

    You may only select a total of Three options, two from the first 3 categories shown here and one from the magical abilities list.  Select in the order shown below, magical ability last.  Keep in mind many pets already have a special ability, which cannot be overwritten. This reduces your choices.

    1 area effect2 special moves1 special ability1 magical ability

  • BloodgetBloodget Posts: 2
    Sadly, i picked the magic ability before picking the special move.  Thanks for the explanation, I will know for next time.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited May 2023
    "yeah it's written like that in wiki as a mitigation against bug, it's not intended, show me publish notes please that describes anything about order or adding ability.
    (I think wiki page was changed to show order to use based on my recommendation as temporary mitigation against this bug, not publish notes - i could be wrong)
    Mariah's comment is suggesting user error, was not error by OP

    Changing wiki was to prevent more players from being hurt by bug, not as a way to apportion blame onto user "
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  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,203
    Yoshi said:
    "yeah it's written like that in wiki as a mitigation against bug, it's not intended, show me publish notes please that describes anything about order or adding ability.
    (I think wiki page was changed to show order to use based on my recommendation as temporary mitigation against this bug, not publish notes - i could be wrong)
    Mariah's comment is suggesting user error, was not error by OP

    Changing wiki was to prevent more players from being hurt by bug, not as a way to apportion blame onto user "
    The magic counts as two choices when you pick it before other things. So the pet is full.  

    It's been that way a lot longer than you have known.  So you had no input in the Wiki.

    From 2018.
    https://community.stratics.com/threads/order-of-picking-abilities-area-effect-special-moves.396669/

    Sorry, games have mechanics and players must understand them.

    Luckily this was a disposable pet. Just took 40 min to do the first round. 

    Here's a guide for Beetles:
    https://community.stratics.com/threads/giant-and-fire-beetle-point-allocation-from-start-to-end.405768/#post-2976199

    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • MariahMariah Posts: 3,286Moderator
    Thank you @Pawain Yes, on further checking that additional information came from player input.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited May 2023


    "mmm, and according to your correspondance what player circa this date Feb 5th 2020 requested this addition of information be added to wiki as a temporary mitigation against a bug?


    I just don't like to be called
    1) a liar
    2) toxic

    and
    3) i don't like when i do something to help the community to have it vomited back in my face so people can blame user error of innocent player"
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited May 2023
    "in fact Pawain,

    if you think this is user error for not reading the wiki,
    perhaps you could explain your own duplicate bug report you submitted

    "

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  • MariahMariah Posts: 3,286Moderator
    Actually the relevant revision was on August 28th 2020. I don't remember who submitted the information.
    I have not, at any point, said the player was to blame, only that there was information available of which he was unaware.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,203
    That's how the game mechanics work. It is probably a better investment to teach players the game mechanics instead of blaming the devs for everything. 

    Blame does not prevent future mistakes, teaching will.

    Concentrate on what you can do and not what you can't.  Your persecution complex will go away.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    "it's how game mechanics works cos its a bug
    hence your bug report...."
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  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,203
    edited May 2023
    Blaming Mariah for not writing the things the devs did not tell her also has no positive outcome.  She adds when she finds out. At least she is active.

    The devs did give the intensity point part in great detail.  There is still a know it all tamer on Atlantic that claims resists are worth less than strength points, even tho they are both 3.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited May 2023
    "lol i am not blaming her for not writing that.

    I requested the information be added so people don't get upset when they spend time training their pet and mess it up by having ability dissapear on them, just until bug is fixed.

    perhaps i made a mistake in requesting the info be written in the wiki if you're using it to throw in innocent player's face and say user error"
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  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,203
    edited May 2023
    Yoshi said:
    "it's how game mechanics works cos its a bug
    hence your bug report...."
    What part is a bug? Magic counts as 2 things if not added last. When added last it counts as 1 or 0. 

    Would you rather they change something and we not be able to add a Magic when the 3 things are used?

    Because that is what would happen.

    I understand the mechanics better now and do not want limitations to satisfy the need for order of operation. 
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited May 2023
    "its up to dev to decide how to deal,
    but it is not intended for you to have to choose abilities in certain order or lose ability option.
    (that order is not even same as presented in the training menu, going top to bottom)


    "
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  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,203
    edited May 2023
    Yoshi said:
    "its up to dev to decide how to deal,
    but it is not intended for you to have to choose abilities in certain order or lose ability option.
    (that order is not even same as presented in the training menu, going top to bottom or bottom to top even)
    "
    We do not have to add things in the order of the training menu or the imbuing menu.  Just when dealing with the specials and magics. To get maximum benefit.

    If you are satisfied with adding magic first and it using 2 of the 3 choices, then you do that. 

    I prefer to get the 3 choices sometimes and then free magic.

    You can choose either method.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited May 2023
    "ah okay, so when someone lose something, they just chose to lose it, like you choose to place all your gold and time in the trash okay now i understand thank you..."



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  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,203
    If they change something,  we could not get this build:

    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited May 2023
    "okay i have not said anything of the sort, i said it's up to dev to choose how to deal
    they could just have it so if you choose magic first it doesn't remove special move options, or they could change menu to encourage/make player choose in a certain order, i said it's up to them to deal"
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  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,203
    edited May 2023
    Well they have.  And I guess we will never see that function to remove abilities from pets that bleak mentioned. 
    Bleed on Cus, Dragon breath on some. Fire steed.

    It's all math as to what pets can get and what order.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited May 2023
    "the original report posted May 2018 is still open.
    A dev, forum mod, or player has not commented to say it is working as intended.
    So it's still open bug that is i assume on the long list"
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  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,203
    edited May 2023
    Yoshi said:
    "its up to dev to decide how to deal,
    but it is not intended for you to have to choose abilities in certain order or lose ability option.
    (that order is not even same as presented in the training menu, going top to bottom)


    "
    Your pictures did not load when I saw this. 

    If I did not choose from bottom to to top on the training menu, I would not have been able to make that pet I showed.  Mariah put them in the choosing order in the Wiki.

    The devs did move AP away from AI because players misclicked those and gave feedback. 
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited May 2023
    "you're welcome?"
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  • MerusMerus Posts: 656
    IMO there is no logical reason picking a magic should count as 2 if picked first.  THAT to me IS a bug.

    Yes, players have found and documented a way to avoid this bug and still build a functional pet.  That does not excuse the devs from acknowledging and fixing it.  
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,203
    edited May 2023
    Merus said:
    IMO there is no logical reason picking a magic should count as 2 if picked first.  THAT to me IS a bug.

    Yes, players have found and documented a way to avoid this bug and still build a functional pet.  That does not excuse the devs from acknowledging and fixing it.  
    If they change it, we probably could not make a lot of the pet templates that we can make now. Since it counts as 0 when added to a full pet.  Seems like they intended to allow a pet to get a magic choice no matter what you picked earlier tho.

    And so I don't cause confusion, a magic counts as 1 when you don't choose it last.  I was thinking of a Hyru.  Forgot it had dismount since it is useless in PVM.

    Add magic to a Hyru first and all your choices are gone. Because it fulfills  the mechanics.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • MerusMerus Posts: 656
    Pawain said:
    Merus said:
    IMO there is no logical reason picking a magic should count as 2 if picked first.  THAT to me IS a bug.

    Yes, players have found and documented a way to avoid this bug and still build a functional pet.  That does not excuse the devs from acknowledging and fixing it.  
    If they change it, we probably could not make a lot of the pet templates that we can make now. Since it counts as 0 when added to a full pet.  Seems like they intended to allow a pet to get a magic choice no matter what you picked earlier tho.

    And so I don't cause confusion, a magic counts as 1 when you don't choose it last.  I was thinking of a Hyru.  Forgot it had dismount since it is useless in PVM.

    Add magic to a Hyru first and all your choices are gone. Because it fulfills  the mechanics.
    We can split hairs, but at the end of the day, the order you add ability/magics to a pet shouldn’t matter.  It’s like saying… well you can only add mana regen if you do it before you increase stamina.  It doesn’t make sense even if players figure it out and post about it.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited May 2023
    "waste of time arguing with him,
    the guy is disputing his own bug report..."

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  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,203
    Yoshi said:
    "waste of time arguing with him,
    the guy is disputing his own bug report..."

    Show me a pet that can't add any more things that does not meet the game mechanics criteria.

      It's we wish it worked a different way but the math of the game mechanics work.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,203
    Yoshi said:
    "waste of time arguing with him,
    the guy is disputing his own bug report..."

    Like you, I posted a bug report that was not a bug. At least I admit it.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited May 2023
    "the game mechanics that a player wrote, not what a dev wrote.

    Here i write another game mechanic..
    If you do x or y, client will crash and close application.

    okay nice intended game mechanic..."
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