Kyronix, can we PLEASE get LUCK to work reliably ?

poppspopps Posts: 3,875
edited February 2022 in General Discussions
Reliably meaning, that if one wears the Luck, it gives the prize.....

As we all have experienced, and this Post here below from @keven2002 is only the last one of many which can be found about Ultima Online and worn Luck whereas several players lament that wearing Luck is totally unreliable and does not produce certain results.

One would think that wearing Luck would actually produce reliable, consistant results yet, it looks like very much, that this is not a linear connection and too often wearing Luck does not yield the expected results...

From https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/70841/#Comment_70841

So I equip my fisher with a max luck suit (minus the shield and 190 weapon) and hit the statue and was fishing in Fel... grand total was like 4500 luck at that point taking all of that into consideration. I use the rest of my remaining dredge hook uses to fish up some SOS... and nothing. I pop on another hook and run through another 10 chests and absolutely zero barnacle covered items were fished up before I pulled the chests. 

So... what am I doing wrong? I have to be doing something wrong given I went through about 1.5 hooks today with 4500 luck and didn't get a single barnacled covered item. Any pointers would be helpful.


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Comments

  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,029
    @popps - if you had finished reading the thread (which was updated by Marge yesterday which was well before you posted this); you would have seen that I was using the dredging hook wrong (apparently when fishing up SOS it will NOT pull up barnacle covered items).

    Once again, you are taking lack of knowledge about game play (on my part this time) and trying to spin it as fact as the game isn't working. Please do not try to use my posts incorrectly to make one of your points; especially when the correction was made in that same thread literally like 3 posts later. 
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,904
    @popps You need a lot of “luck” to make this happen  :D
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,742
    Maybe he had a lot of luck it was just all bad ? That's the very nature of luck 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,875
    edited February 2022
    keven2002 said:
    @ popps - if you had finished reading the thread (which was updated by Marge yesterday which was well before you posted this); you would have seen that I was using the dredging hook wrong (apparently when fishing up SOS it will NOT pull up barnacle covered items).

    Once again, you are taking lack of knowledge about game play (on my part this time) and trying to spin it as fact as the game isn't working. Please do not try to use my posts incorrectly to make one of your points; especially when the correction was made in that same thread literally like 3 posts later. 
    Regardless from your personal experience with dredging hooks and barnacles, Ultima Online is filled with players who question the reliability of worn Luck all the times....

    Or, are you telling me, that you personally feel that worn Luck in UO works perfectly and is always reliable flawlessly ?

    Maybe it could come handy to UO players to do their tests about Luck, to provide to them a "SetLuck" command for the Test Server ?

    Then, players could better find out what works and what doesn't, about worn Luck, so that it could then get fixed?
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,029
    popps said:
    Regardless from your personal experience with dredging hooks and barnacles, 
    Now you are contradicting yourself. Literally this first sentence is what you based your first post of this thread on (my experience with luck/dredge hooks) but now you are essentially saying it's irrelevant. In fact you are duplicating a post you already made where you want to use a "setLuck" command on TC1. Stop spamming us with the same crap in multiple threads and don't try to use me as your support.

    @Mariah - There is already a thread on popps asking for a set luck to test luck (along with another dozen of threads on luck) and he's incorrectly using a post I made in another thread to inaccurately depict luck working which I do not approve of. Please lock this thread.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,742
    @popps you do understand that with luck it can be good or bad right 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • The self appointed voice of the “players” speaks again 
  • MariahMariah Posts: 2,898Moderator
    Luck, by its very nature is not 'reliable'.  If it was I'd play the lottery ever week. In game luck is highly influenced by RNG and you will never know whether an item has had a luck boost or not because you don't know how the system generated it in the first place.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 8,824
    Since Kevin has a luck suit and is doing fishing content.  I think he should pull more gold chests, right?  Those look cool but they are not large gumps in CC.

    But this is a funny thread.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,029
    Pawain said:
    Since Kevin has a luck suit and is doing fishing content.  I think he should pull more gold chests, right?  
    I did pull more gold chests than rusty/regular. That said, the loot in the gold chest wasn't really any different/better than the other ones; it was just more quantity. This is one of the main reasons I have like 150 regular SOS at home, the loot from even a gold chest is terrible. I thought they were going to revamp the chests shortly after they redid the treasure map chests (last couple levels give you legendary items in most chests) a couple years ago but seems like they simply changed the colors (rusty / gold) and left everything else the same.
  • Mariah said:
    Luck, by its very nature is not 'reliable'.  If it was I'd play the lottery ever week. In game luck is highly influenced by RNG and you will never know whether an item has had a luck boost or not because you don't know how the system generated it in the first place.
    meh.  This is a non sensical response.   Your conflating "luck" as it exists as a statistic in a game with luck as it exists in reality.  In reality "luck" is pure chance.  In the game luck is a stat that supposedly as an effect on the chances of a positive out come.  

    I agree with the OP.  I can't count how many times if done shadowguard for example, throwing on a full luck suit and getting nothing but trash in drops.  It's so unreliable I gave up even bothering with it.  You SHOULD be able to notice the difference.  I get that it should not be a guarantee, but in its current form luck is a lot like a prayer.  Your told it works, but your hard pressed to actually see it's effect in the real world outside of confirmation bias


  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,742
    Mariah said:
    Luck, by its very nature is not 'reliable'.  If it was I'd play the lottery ever week. In game luck is highly influenced by RNG and you will never know whether an item has had a luck boost or not because you don't know how the system generated it in the first place.
    meh.  This is a non sensical response.   Your conflating "luck" as it exists as a statistic in a game with luck as it exists in reality.  In reality "luck" is pure chance.  In the game luck is a stat that supposedly as an effect on the chances of a positive out come.  

    I agree with the OP.  I can't count how many times if done shadowguard for example, throwing on a full luck suit and getting nothing but trash in drops.  It's so unreliable I gave up even bothering with it.  You SHOULD be able to notice the difference.  I get that it should not be a guarantee, but in its current form luck is a lot like a prayer.  Your told it works, but your hard pressed to actually see it's effect in the real world outside of confirmation bias


    Why would you accept the positive idea of luck but dismiss the negative?
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • keven2002 said:
    Pawain said:
    Since Kevin has a luck suit and is doing fishing content.  I think he should pull more gold chests, right?  
    I did pull more gold chests than rusty/regular. That said, the loot in the gold chest wasn't really any different/better than the other ones; it was just more quantity. This is one of the main reasons I have like 150 regular SOS at home, the loot from even a gold chest is terrible. I thought they were going to revamp the chests shortly after they redid the treasure map chests (last couple levels give you legendary items in most chests) a couple years ago but seems like they simply changed the colors (rusty / gold) and left everything else the same.
    I agree, the loot in MIB chests is worse than treasure chests, but on the other hand I am happy that pre-chest loot is awesome cleanup points. I hate it when my fisher fishes up the chest on the first go with a 100 point per "recovered from a shipwreck" item.

    So I guess fishing still has this perk. Nets go to my tamer. But the rest of the loot is deplorable for sure.

    I was fishing with 4500+ too (suit/statue/felucca)
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,029
    edited February 2022
    I'll give a quick elevator pitch on this because I know I've already covered this topic in depth before.

    People fail to realize that in-game luck doesn't always mean "l33t" gear. People confuse how luck should work form what they WANT it to be which is: getting the best piece for a slot repeatedly with max luck with what it ACTUALLY is: which is a chance to "improve" the quantity/quality/intensity of loot. 

    Loot is randomly generated based on a loot table, this should be common knowledge at this point.

    Depending on what you kill the # items you will get is X with a range of properties from 1 to N with an intensity of A to D (this is a random top end intensity).

    Without luck you will get some sort of combo. With max luck (3982) there is now a 100% chance that something (if not all) in that equation will be improved (yes improved NOT maxed out). So then it depends on how that item was going to spawn before luck was checked. Furthermore each item could be impacted differently from the loot table. Nothing says that if you have max luck that you will be on the top end range of that equation every time (max items / max properties on each item / max intensity of each property).  I know that's what some people would like to believe luck is, but it's not.

    Same for getting drops. People think because they wear a luck suit to Doom or Shadowguard they should be getting the best drop after like every other run but "because luck is broken" they aren't getting a cameo after every 3rd run. 

    Funny though. You all really just let popps post yet another troll thread and people are getting sucked in to argue back and forth. While we are at it, I'll start up the EC vs CC debate.

    I HEARD THAT LUCK WORKS BETTER WHEN USING EC BECAUSE IT'S THE BETTER CLIENT TO USE! 
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,122
    https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/player/stats/luck/
    Luck is a stat that can be found on equipment as well as obtained from certain promotional items. When triggered, a luck boost can increase the number and/or the quality of the loot items dropped.

    How luck was explained to us when it first came out can be found here
    https://www.uoguide.com/Luck
    and the way it was explained to us was that there was a way to get 100% chance of the Luck Boost every time but as everybody knows it does not work that way.

  • This is from official patch notes when they first introduced Shadowguard

    https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/publish-notes/publish-90/

    So with this publish 90 they say luck give you more chance at 'artifact reward' (reward mean reward drop in pack) , but I can't tell it really work because I've tried with highest luck suits possible and I haven't seen a noticable change in reward drops. Please fix luck.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,742
    Remember those -100 luck weapons...
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • keven2002 said:
    ....
    I HEARD THAT LUCK WORKS BETTER WHEN USING EC BECAUSE IT'S THE BETTER CLIENT TO USE! 
    I've heard that too...




    -Arroth
  • TimStTimSt Posts: 1,759
    Just going to throw my two cents into this thread.  Welcome to the English language. The word 'can' does not mean 'will'. It means something may or may not happen.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 8,824
    This is from official patch notes when they first introduced Shadowguard

    https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/publish-notes/publish-90/

    So with this publish 90 they say luck give you more chance at 'artifact reward' (reward mean reward drop in pack) , but I can't tell it really work because I've tried with highest luck suits possible and I haven't seen a noticable change in reward drops. Please fix luck.
    A powerful artifact reward is most likely going to be antique or cursed.

    That's the problem with luck. You hope you get some lesser powerful plain legendaries.

    If you are getting a lot of cursed and antique items, luck is working. Because those are the most powerful items.

    For other things like sos and t hunting you get more items from that loot table.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,029
    edited February 2022
    TimSt said:
    Just going to throw my two cents into this thread.  Welcome to the English language. The word 'can' does not mean 'will'. It means something may or may not happen.
    *waits for everyone's head to explode that's complaining about luck*

    Perfectly said.

    Pawain said:

    A powerful artifact reward is most likely going to be antique or cursed.

    That's the problem with luck. You hope you get some lesser powerful plain legendaries.

    If you are getting a lot of cursed and antique items, luck is working. Because those are the most powerful items.

    For other things like sos and t hunting you get more items from that loot table.
    No!! Stop with the bad news (aka facts)! 


    .... plus that luck bonus for using EC to get guaranteed bumps to loot too.... >:)
  • MariahMariah Posts: 2,898Moderator
    @keven2002 please put that big wooden spoon back in the drawer.
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,122
    This is not a CAN it is a WILL
    If (Luck percentage (%) chance value > RNG value)
        Increase loot
  • quickbladequickblade Posts: 290
    edited February 2022
    Pawain said:
    This is from official patch notes when they first introduced Shadowguard

    https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/publish-notes/publish-90/

    So with this publish 90 they say luck give you more chance at 'artifact reward' (reward mean reward drop in pack) , but I can't tell it really work because I've tried with highest luck suits possible and I haven't seen a noticable change in reward drops. Please fix luck.
    A powerful artifact reward is most likely going to be antique or cursed.

    That's the problem with luck. You hope you get some lesser powerful plain legendaries.

    If you are getting a lot of cursed and antique items, luck is working. Because those are the most powerful items.

    For other things like sos and t hunting you get more items from that loot table.
    The way they phrased it and also under the -Shadowguard category in the patch notes is also confusing to me, but you think they meant the actual loot artifacts in the corpse by  'a powerful artifact reward' ?
    To me it sounds more like 'one' of the artifacts backpack rewards from the Shadowguard list:


    *Taken from the same patch notes (publish 90)

    Would be nice to have a dev just confirming if luck has an impact on these artifacts from this list, and if the answer is yes, maybe think of re-adjusting it so it has a bit more noticable increase?

    After this, if I was a dev, I'd release 1 or 2 'luck'  new artifact from upcoming events, and you will have a hyped crowd of players looking to get these artifacts :)
  • PawainPawain Posts: 8,824
    edited February 2022
    @quickblade
    No no.  They will not weigh the drop type directly with luck.  The drop item formula is not the same as the corpse loot formula.  It has a lot more factors to weigh so the top items are rare.  Luck may be involved in the exact item drop, but luck is not as weighted as heavily as it is in corpse loot. 

    There's more than 30 things that can drop.  We do not know the weights of the items. We assume the cameos are weighted as less common.  But every time yo go to shadowguard you have a 1 in 25 or so chance for a Cameo or whatever specific item.

    The devs in UO are stingy. They do not give away the good stuff.

    There is a thread on Stratics about Boss drops.  One player says the chance for a Cameo is 1 in 30.   Going with that.   The stingy devs probably increased it to 1 in 28 if you are wearing a luck suit.

    Luck weighs heavier with loot that is spawned from a Mob, Chest, etc.  Things that were legendary will bump higher to Cursed or Antique which is more powerful. Prized is more powerful.  many of the less than Legendary items will increase to Legendary,  That's where we get a chance at some Brittle only legendaries.

    If you want to see luck work in UO.  Make a miner.  Mine for Niter.  With 0 luck you get only small and large deposits.  With Luck you always get Massive or Gigantic.

    Luck works, it just does not work at the % the player wants.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • quickbladequickblade Posts: 290
    edited February 2022
    Pawain said:
    @ quickblade
    ...
    There is a thread on Stratics about Boss drops.  One player says the chance for a Cameo is 1 in 30.   Going with that.   The stingy devs probably increased it to 1 in 28 if you are wearing a luck suit.
    ...
    Yea that was my assumption also if luck had any impact at all on the shadowguard drops, that it would probably be a small increase of 1 or 2% when wearing high luck suit ...
    But 1 in 30 seems a bit low from my experience, but 1 in 30 for someone can also be 1 in 100 for another player, so it could be true... as I've had cameos before at my first run on some characters...
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,875
    edited February 2022
    Mariah said:
    Luck, by its very nature is not 'reliable'.  If it was I'd play the lottery ever week. In game luck is highly influenced by RNG and you will never know whether an item has had a luck boost or not because you don't know how the system generated it in the first place.
    And this is why, I think, adding a "SetLuck" command for the Test Server, could help UO players out to do enough testing about Luck under various scenarios, so as to eventually finally understand how Luck works in UO for good....

    And eventually ask to get it fixed, should players' testings on the Test Server find out that Luck was to have some "obscure" functionalities.... like not working for certain things, and other findings.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,875
    edited February 2022
    Mariah said:
    Luck, by its very nature is not 'reliable'.  If it was I'd play the lottery ever week. In game luck is highly influenced by RNG and you will never know whether an item has had a luck boost or not because you don't know how the system generated it in the first place.
    meh.  This is a non sensical response.   Your conflating "luck" as it exists as a statistic in a game with luck as it exists in reality.  In reality "luck" is pure chance.  In the game luck is a stat that supposedly as an effect on the chances of a positive out come.  

    I agree with the OP.  I can't count how many times if done shadowguard for example, throwing on a full luck suit and getting nothing but trash in drops.  It's so unreliable I gave up even bothering with it.  You SHOULD be able to notice the difference.  I get that it should not be a guarantee, but in its current form luck is a lot like a prayer.  Your told it works, but your hard pressed to actually see it's effect in the real world outside of confirmation bias


    This is a Post for which I'd really like to have the option to hit " LIKE "

    I totally agree with what you say, in UO worn Luck is a Stat, a Property, pretty much like any other in the game.... if one has MAX Hit Chance Increase, they HIT MORE and miss LESS.... with worn Luck, unfortunately, often it does not look like that....
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,875
    Pawain said:
    @ quickblade
    No no.  They will not weigh the drop type directly with luck.  The drop item formula is not the same as the corpse loot formula.  It has a lot more factors to weigh so the top items are rare.  Luck may be involved in the exact item drop, but luck is not as weighted as heavily as it is in corpse loot. 

    There's more than 30 things that can drop.  We do not know the weights of the items. We assume the cameos are weighted as less common.  But every time yo go to shadowguard you have a 1 in 25 or so chance for a Cameo or whatever specific item.

    The devs in UO are stingy. They do not give away the good stuff.

    There is a thread on Stratics about Boss drops.  One player says the chance for a Cameo is 1 in 30.   Going with that.   The stingy devs probably increased it to 1 in 28 if you are wearing a luck suit.

    Luck weighs heavier with loot that is spawned from a Mob, Chest, etc.  Things that were legendary will bump higher to Cursed or Antique which is more powerful. Prized is more powerful.  many of the less than Legendary items will increase to Legendary,  That's where we get a chance at some Brittle only legendaries.

    If you want to see luck work in UO.  Make a miner.  Mine for Niter.  With 0 luck you get only small and large deposits.  With Luck you always get Massive or Gigantic.

    Luck works, it just does not work at the % the player wants.
    There is a thread on Stratics about Boss drops.  One player says the chance for a Cameo is 1 in 30.   Going with that.   The stingy devs probably increased it to 1 in 28 if you are wearing a luck suit.

    Considering though, that there is a LOT of sacrifices that need to be made for a player when deciding to have their character wear a high Luck Suit, that is,, many valuable other properties also important in a fight that the player would have to tone down or flat out renounce, thus making their entire fight way more difficult because they favour high Luck over other properties, one would then imagine that worn Luck was given by the UO Designers quite a more significant impact rather then making odds go from 1 in 30 to only 1 in 28....

    I mean, high Luck does nothing in helping killing High End Bosses.... on the contrary, it makes the character more vulnerable and less powerfull in fighting.... as a consequence, the fight with a high Luck character can more likely end bad (multiple deaths...) rather then good....

    To my opinion, the "trade offs" of valuable properties for high Luck should, therefore, have a more, way more significant impact on the Artifacts drops and the quality of Loot.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,742
    Maybe it's just my bad luck that popps ignored my post...
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
This discussion has been closed.