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The real problem with Paras

meltedmantismeltedmantis Posts: 46
edited October 2021 in General Discussions
There is no incentive to kill them... actually quite the opposite.  the incentive is to let others deal with them, in favor of faster to kill mobs.  Why not raise the drop chance or somthing on para's so players don't just run past tough fights.  On LS many many just dump them on other players then leave.   I have a feeling this would not be happening if that involved leaving a drop behind.  

With all the cheap tricks that have been given to para's I don't think this is a "big ask"
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Comments

  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,023
    edited October 2021
    I think that LS specific there are so many helping to kill them, at prime time, I get no message that I gained fame and my fame is quite low.

    So, we are not getting much credit towards killing them. 
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,080
    It's a crap shoot on Origin there's just not enough people to deal with them . On Cats you call for the paragon clean up crew and boom dead paragons. On my beloved Pacific I'm sorry but we suck just leaving paragons everywhere....
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,021
    meltedmantis said:
    There is no incentive to kill them... actually quite the opposite.  the incentive is to let others deal with them, in favor of faster to kill mobs.  Why not raise the drop chance or somthing on para's so players don't just run past tough fights.  On LS many many just dump them on other players then leave.   I have a feeling this would not be happening if that involved leaving a drop behind.  

    With all the cheap tricks that have been given to para's I don't think this is a "big ask"
    I think that killing 1 Paragon Balron should award 1 Demonic Forces Artifact drop to all of those having looting right.

    This should motivate people to kill them.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,023
    6500spopps said:
    meltedmantis said:
    There is no incentive to kill them... actually quite the opposite.  the incentive is to let others deal with them, in favor of faster to kill mobs.  Why not raise the drop chance or somthing on para's so players don't just run past tough fights.  On LS many many just dump them on other players then leave.   I have a feeling this would not be happening if that involved leaving a drop behind.  

    With all the cheap tricks that have been given to para's I don't think this is a "big ask"
    I think that killing 1 Paragon Balron should award 1 Demonic Forces Artifact drop to all of those having looting right.

    This should motivate people to kill them.
    I'd have 100 more drops. Since I use 2 guys to kill them. Last night I tossed in my archer tamer.

    So sure just give a clicky  for drops.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 1,415
    Help others kill the more powerful ones all the time.  But it is a waste of my time to try and solo a para Baldron.  Soloed one once it took about a half a hour for my character.  In that amount of time I could have gotten a lot more points  and maybe some drops of from killing other stuff so I can understand why others pass them by and to be honest so do I.  I will always help others I think that’s what the designers intended but really no reason to waste my time trying to solo one.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,080


    Look at me not getting drops very fast happy as a clam because my character can finally participate in these events Yes i know i would look much better in a top hat 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • LarisaLarisa Posts: 1,211
    Yeah I got lucky this morning and I didn't see a soul on lvl 2. There were 2 para balrons hidden in the corners that I avoided, was able to kill a handful of paragon others got 3 drops and left. I was quite happy. No I don't get a million drops during these events. I am up to 29 now. I have 2 months. I will get everything I want.

  • meltedmantismeltedmantis Posts: 46
    edited October 2021
    Pawain said:
    6500spopps said:
    There is no incentive to kill them... actually quite the opposite.  the incentive is to let others deal with them, in favor of faster to kill mobs.  Why not raise the drop chance or somthing on para's so players don't just run past tough fights.  On LS many many just dump them on other players then leave.   I have a feeling this would not be happening if that involved leaving a drop behind.  

    With all the cheap tricks that have been given to para's I don't think this is a "big ask"
    I think that killing 1 Paragon Balron should award 1 Demonic Forces Artifact drop to all of those having looting right.

    This should motivate people to kill them.
    I'd have 100 more drops. Since I use 2 guys to kill them. Last night I tossed in my archer tamer.

    So sure just give a clicky  for drops.
    thats a valid point, but I think the answer is somewhere in the middle.... Balron 1:4 drop
    para daemon 1:6  para imp 1:32... or something along those lines.

    it don't need to be 1:1 but something more than regular mobs.

    I mean right now you can PAY 2 dollars for a 50% drop bonus.  So what's a game mechanic with a 25% boost?  make it so that killing paras is like half the PAY 2 WIN potion for that kill.  

  • meltedmantismeltedmantis Posts: 46
    Pawain said:
    I think that LS specific there are so many helping to kill them, at prime time, I get no message that I gained fame and my fame is quite low.

    So, we are not getting much credit towards killing them. 
    That is true we have been going really great.  It just something I've noticed off peak when its more sparse.  Then it's a bit frustrating because i'll be trying to tank a para balron and someone will slip by so they can go kill faster mobs. 
  • ActionEllyActionElly Posts: 168
    Nah, everyone pulls their paragons onto me on LS and runs for it. ;)
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,023
    ActionElly said:
    Nah, everyone pulls their paragons onto me on LS and runs for it. ;)
    Glad to help. :)
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,080
    We need to turn up the Fey spawn rate both regular and paragons in fire the opposing slayer danger was real and deadly not so much here nobody's bothering to unequip demon slayer..
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • PlayerSkillFTWPlayerSkillFTW Posts: 619
    McDougle said:
    We need to turn up the Fey spawn rate both regular and paragons in fire the opposing slayer danger was real and deadly not so much here nobody's bothering to unequip demon slayer..

    The Wildfire Wisps don't dish out enough melee damage to be a major threat, even with opposing Slayer equipped. Opposing Slayer damage only applies to kinetic attacks, not Magic.
    When a Paragon Wildfire Wisp spawns, i just toggle EoO on them, Stagger, and spam Double Strike until they're dead. The Wildfire Wisp Paragons can carry chests, which is the unique Chest drop from this event. I like to collect unique Paragon Chests.
  • FoosFoos Posts: 88
    edited October 2021
    False my friend.  The incentive to kill them already exists.  If you run and leave one there eventually you'll spawn another and another and another.  Once there are 3 or 4 of those things running around a level it's shut down until you clean them up.  Also the more you add to the equation the more difficult it is to clean up the mess.  Where as if you simply kill the beast you can farm the room hard core until another spawns.  So your drops per hour increases dramatically if they are all dead.  My advice is get a strategy to kill them as soon as you see them.
  • FoosFoos Posts: 88
    ActionElly said:
    Nah, everyone pulls their paragons onto me on LS and runs for it. ;)
    Me too.  I always kill them as they spawn.  But a lot of people will come down to the room I'm farming, farm it until a couple spawn then leave the mess for me to pick up.  It's obnoxious.

  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,080
    Make them like necro revrants  ;)
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • DragoDrago Posts: 306
    Paras aren't the problem.

  • PlayerSkillFTWPlayerSkillFTW Posts: 619
    edited October 2021
    Foos said:
    False my friend.  The incentive to kill them already exists.  If you run and leave one there eventually you'll spawn another and another and another.  Once there are 3 or 4 of those things running around a level it's shut down until you clean them up.  Also the more you add to the equation the more difficult it is to clean up the mess.  Where as if you simply kill the beast you can farm the room hard core until another spawns.  So your drops per hour increases dramatically if they are all dead.  My advice is get a strategy to kill them as soon as you see them.

    On Lvl 4, it's actually easier to just stuff the 3 Balrons in the "closet" of the NW room, and leave them there as you farm all the other rooms.


    I kind of miss the old Balron graphic. Where they just looked like a grey Daemon wielding a huge sword.


  • RinerRiner Posts: 379
    meltedmantis said:
    Pawain said:
    6500spopps said:
    There is no incentive to kill them... actually quite the opposite.  the incentive is to let others deal with them, in favor of faster to kill mobs.  Why not raise the drop chance or somthing on para's so players don't just run past tough fights.  On LS many many just dump them on other players then leave.   I have a feeling this would not be happening if that involved leaving a drop behind.  

    With all the cheap tricks that have been given to para's I don't think this is a "big ask"
    I think that killing 1 Paragon Balron should award 1 Demonic Forces Artifact drop to all of those having looting right.

    This should motivate people to kill them.
    I'd have 100 more drops. Since I use 2 guys to kill them. Last night I tossed in my archer tamer.

    So sure just give a clicky  for drops.
    thats a valid point, but I think the answer is somewhere in the middle.... Balron 1:4 drop
    para daemon 1:6  para imp 1:32... or something along those lines.

    it don't need to be 1:1 but something more than regular mobs.

    I mean right now you can PAY 2 dollars for a 50% drop bonus.  So what's a game mechanic with a 25% boost?  make it so that killing paras is like half the PAY 2 WIN potion for that kill.  

    I think this is the best idea as it would both provide incentive to kill them without making it an autodrop situation. 
  • meltedmantismeltedmantis Posts: 46
    Drago said:
    Paras aren't the problem.

    yesterday i was on lvl 3 died, ok fine run out as ghost.  well the little maze at the end of lvl 1 was impassable because of chest spawn.   
  • SlissSliss Posts: 283
    BTW, the luck potions actually provide a negative incentive to kill paras. If you have 60 minutes to reap the benefits, you are not going to waste them on long fights with a high probability of death. Just saying. 
  • TyrathTyrath Posts: 542
     45 seconds to kill a Paragon Balron 20-30 seconds for a Paragon Elder Gazer or 20-30 imps, wisp, gazers etc in the same 45 seconds that appear to have the same odd of a drop as the big paragons.  Very little real incentive to kill the big paragons.
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,021
    Tyrath said:
     45 seconds to kill a Paragon Balron 20-30 seconds for a Paragon Elder Gazer or 20-30 imps, wisp, gazers etc in the same 45 seconds that appear to have the same odd of a drop as the big paragons.  Very little real incentive to kill the big paragons.
    Not if the Developers made all having looting rights on killing a Paragon Balron or Elder Gazer to be granted 1 Demonic Forces Artifact drop as granted....


  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,263
    There is incentive to kill Para's as mentioned by Kyronix like 3 events ago when people were complaining about the same thing; the paragons give "more points" ie provide increased chance at popping a drop. 

    Start working better as a team to work the dungeon or stop killing the balrons. 

    I'm wondering if any of the people complaining about how difficult paragons are would be the same people complaining about every shard should get the event in fel for "the added difficulty of doing it in fel". Which is it? Does the event need to be easier or harder? lol
  • TyrathTyrath Posts: 542
    keven2002 said:
    There is incentive to kill Para's as mentioned by Kyronix like 3 events ago when people were complaining about the same thing; the paragons give "more points" ie provide increased chance at popping a drop. 

    Start working better as a team to work the dungeon or stop killing the balrons. 

    I'm wondering if any of the people complaining about how difficult paragons are would be the same people complaining about every shard should get the event in fel for "the added difficulty of doing it in fel". Which is it? Does the event need to be easier or harder? lol

     There is always how Kryonix says it is and then there is the reality :) For myself I could careless either way they are minor annoyance at best but in the time it takes to kill 1 or 2 I can get 2-3 drops killing much easier stuff.

      Start working better as a team?  If you need a team to kill them in a reasonable amount of time you are doing it wrong.  LOL also see the teams getting wrecked over and over by 1 Paragon Elder Gazer and the Balrons do it to them even faster.  Again Not a problem for me I run my Hybrid melee toon killing all the easy stuff and when the paragons start getting thick I swap to my Paragon Slayer toon and clean them up and go back to collecting drops on the Cheezy melee toon.

      Personally I am quite happy it is not in fel on the shards I play. Hythloth Fel is one of my main Salty Peter mining spots :)  

      For more participation on low pop shards it needs to be easier.  I am gonna speculate that the people dying over and over at the entrance when 2-6 paragons have been dumped there are not having a whole lot of fun and judging by how fast the death robes pile up outside the entrance, they probably are not thrilled about burning through the insurance gold either.  I suspect the folks that like limiting participation in events do so because it keeps the value of the rewards high. 

      If the goal of the Paragons is to stop hidden stealth tamers from being effective and castrate sampires then the Balrons are just overkill and prohibitive to the casual non elitist players.
  • MorgothMorgoth Posts: 13
    It's just lazy cheesy mechanics that punishes an average player. 

    Sure, having a group can rip through a para Bally but there are selfish players that run past and don't help and another type that drags the para to you and runs off...

    I just need to find 18 more drops for the chest and I'm done with this rubbish.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,080
    Lets change what you get from pirating during dungeons instead of cargo you get the of treasures.. 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • FoosFoos Posts: 88
    edited October 2021
    Foos said:
    False my friend.  The incentive to kill them already exists.  If you run and leave one there eventually you'll spawn another and another and another.  Once there are 3 or 4 of those things running around a level it's shut down until you clean them up.  Also the more you add to the equation the more difficult it is to clean up the mess.  Where as if you simply kill the beast you can farm the room hard core until another spawns.  So your drops per hour increases dramatically if they are all dead.  My advice is get a strategy to kill them as soon as you see them.

    On Lvl 4, it's actually easier to just stuff the 3 Balrons in the "closet" of the NW room, and leave them there as you farm all the other rooms.


    I kind of miss the old Balron graphic. Where they just looked like a grey Daemon wielding a huge sword.



    As other posters have pointed out,

    this event is clearly not meant to be done solo.  We run in a group and we crush the Balrons with little effort.  If one player hits a mob with chain lighting that is being hit by 3 sampire's they seem to get == points as the points rewarded per kill does not seem to be dramatically altered by who does the most dmg.  Because of this a group of 7ish players can make it rain drops.  But it's up to you how you want to do it.  I'd prefer to run in a group and not limit the spawn in any way.

    I guess to add another side note,  all people did before was complain that there was not enough spawn.  Well the dev's changed the equation.  Now there is too much spawn for one person.  It's an MMO though so realistically it's not really a problem unless we try to play the mmo as a single player game.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,263
    I agree @Foos. A select handful of people just complain for the sake of complaining. Too little spawn / too much spawn / too easy / too hard / rewards not good enough / rewards are too OP. The list goes on. 

    I've found this encounter to be pretty well balanced so far. It's waaaaay better in Tram than WF was because there are more bad guys to kill based on how many people are killing AND with the luck potion available it's not too bad of a return by hunting there. In fact someone I was talking to earlier said they preferred Tram over Fel because with the luck potion it's all about just doing damage so it's actually better to have others helping to clear spawn(mainly paragons) so they can just keep dishing out damage to as many mobs as possible. 

    The one imbalance I can see (and agree it is annoying) is everyone in Tram I see go total Leroy Jenkins into the dungeon only to come running back to the entrance with 2-3 paragons that they then leave the dungeon and let others deal with (possibly recalling deeper into the dungeon). Aside from that there is plenty of spawn to get drops. If you are solo and careful you can manage to clear the spawn and stay alive. That said, it does certainly seem like pairing up is probably the best route as it doesn't impact your drops too much but also will help taking down paragon balrons/gazers.
  • MorgothMorgoth Posts: 13
    That's great that you got lots of players to group up with but our shared isn't very populated so it's not easy to get a large posse of like minded players to share the kills.

    I'm glad the Devs have made you above average players happy with this gameplay and that you are rewarded as you are so justly deserved.
This discussion has been closed.