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Can someone explain these CU Sidhe Regens ?

2

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  • JboJbo Posts: 12
    Or if the pet dont die very often… if you are a bard, you only need those skill as “realskill” then you can stack up with all kinds of +skill items.
    My tamer template uses 795pts.
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,019
    Arroth_Thaiel said:
    popps said:
    May I ask if you have on your Template ALL 4 Bard skills maxed out at 120 in each (480 total) in order to Buff the pet's Regens for +22 for each one of them ?

    Also, if so, with 480 skill points all taken by Bard skills, and having to have also Animal Taming and Animal Lore at 120 each, how do you handle for the necessary pet resses, heals and all the rest which a Tamer might need ?
    popps said:
    Two accounts I can understand... but this Tamer, was alone....

    And to have 1 single account with 4x120 bard skills and 2x120 Taming skills and hardly anything else is quite odd, don't you think ?

    ********
    https://forum.uo.com/discussion/7895/what-is-the-new-tears-of-the-ice-dragon-spellbook-good-for-any-advice/p1
    popps said:
    I have been trying to wonder what type of use would be most appropriate for the new spellbook from Tears of the Ice Dragon but
    I wasn't going to say anything, but since @ Mene_Drachenfels let it out of the bag! The book makes it quite easy to put together 7x120 Bard templates. (or, dare I say, 8x 120 for one particular template, if you get the complimentary gear!)
    Are you trying to say that the +20 Magery Book would help getting a Template with : 

    120 Musicianship
    120 Peacemaking
    120 Provocation
    120 Discordance
    120 Animal Taming
    120 Animal Lore
    120 Magery
    120 ???

    Care to explain how ?

    I find myself having a hard time seeing how one could get to 120 Magery as a 7th skill with items, considering that, in between the Book, Ring and Bracelet at most one could get to 60 Magery... where would one fit the other 60 Magery Skill points ?

    Then, the 8th skill would even get more complicated since one could get 40 points on a ring and bracelet but where to get the additional 80 points ?

    I mean, how ??
  • Arroth_ThaielArroth_Thaiel Posts: 1,060
    edited June 2021
    The 8th 120 would be Meditation, primarily for Song upkeep, secondarily for Consume.
    -Arroth
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,019
    Jbo said:
    Or if the pet dont die very often… if you are a bard, you only need those skill as “realskill” then you can stack up with all kinds of +skill items.
    My tamer template uses 795pts.
    Well, if only a 4 x 120 Bard REAL skills can use the Resilience Bard Mastery song to add +22 Regeneration points to each of a pet's Hit Points, Stamina and Mana Regenerations, at least for Bard skills, those cannot be on items...

    Not sure if the Tamers' skills can be on items either to then more effectively be able to control one's own Pet....
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,019
    Arroth_Thaiel said:
    The 8th 120 would be Meditation, for Consume.
    That would make sense...

    But then, what would be the suit be like, to accomodate those 8 x 120 skills ?

    Care to please get more into details ?
  • JboJbo Posts: 12
    popps said:
    Jbo said:
    Or if the pet dont die very often… if you are a bard, you only need those skill as “realskill” then you can stack up with all kinds of +skill items.
    My tamer template uses 795pts.
    Well, if only a 4 x 120 Bard REAL skills can use the Resilience Bard Mastery song to add +22 Regeneration points to each of a pet's Hit Points, Stamina and Mana Regenerations, at least for Bard skills, those cannot be on items...

    Not sure if the Tamers' skills can be on items either to then more effectively be able to control one's own Pet....
    I dont have active bard, but according to uoguide having realskill in the bard skills only affects the mana upkeep not effectiness, havent tested myself.

    ofc you can use skill items for taming/Lore before the masteries i was to lazy to train up taming i ran with +30 taming on jewels.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,995
    edited June 2021
    When I had a few not real skills I was doing 17 instead of 22.  And yes all masteries reduce mana when you have 120 real skill.

    Pet control is not real skill but when you die and don't have your jewels on, dont command the pet.

    In the case of the tamer bard you would want real on the bard skills since you are using those masteries.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 894
    edited June 2021
    The correct bard mastery bonuses are described here:
    https://www.uoguide.com/Bard_Masteries

    The data being referred to by popps may only apply up to GM levels.

    People that play bards certainly know these numbers :)
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,995
    popps said:

     that noone so far, in this Thread, has been able to give me a reasonable and logical explaination of ?
    The first answer was Bard Buffs...  You do not accept any answers.  Tamers still do fine in this dungeon.  It is not like deceit where there were groups of mobs.  I probably do WW twice an hour.

    We need more spawn on LS tho.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,019
    Jbo said:
    popps said:
    Jbo said:
    Or if the pet dont die very often… if you are a bard, you only need those skill as “realskill” then you can stack up with all kinds of +skill items.
    My tamer template uses 795pts.
    Well, if only a 4 x 120 Bard REAL skills can use the Resilience Bard Mastery song to add +22 Regeneration points to each of a pet's Hit Points, Stamina and Mana Regenerations, at least for Bard skills, those cannot be on items...

    Not sure if the Tamers' skills can be on items either to then more effectively be able to control one's own Pet....
    I dont have active bard, but according to uoguide having realskill in the bard skills only affects the mana upkeep not effectiness, havent tested myself.

    ofc you can use skill items for taming/Lore before the masteries i was to lazy to train up taming i ran with +30 taming on jewels.
    I was my understanding that, ALL Masteries, in order to take skill points to benefit them (better efficacy), need for those skill points to be "real", not on items...

    So, for example, having Animal Taming skill points on items, would reduce the efficacy of the Animal Taming Mastery, to my understanding....
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,080
    People keep explaining you keep not hearing real skill affects mana cost and up keep that is all 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,019
    Pawain said:
    popps said:

     that noone so far, in this Thread, has been able to give me a reasonable and logical explaination of ?
    The first answer was Bard Buffs...  You do not accept any answers.  Tamers still do fine in this dungeon.  It is not like deceit where there were groups of mobs.  I probably do WW twice an hour.

    We need more spawn on LS tho.
    Sure it was YET, I was going with UO Wiki explaination of 2-8 points increase so, it did not make sense to me...

    If 4 x 120 Bard Skills give +22 Regens in each of the 3 Regenerations as @ForeverFun mentioned that https://www.uoguide.com/Bard_Masteries indicates, then I need to imagine that the UO Wiki should get updated and contain the correct informations...
  • JboJbo Posts: 12
    popps said:
    Jbo said:
    popps said:
    Jbo said:
    Or if the pet dont die very often… if you are a bard, you only need those skill as “realskill” then you can stack up with all kinds of +skill items.
    My tamer template uses 795pts.
    Well, if only a 4 x 120 Bard REAL skills can use the Resilience Bard Mastery song to add +22 Regeneration points to each of a pet's Hit Points, Stamina and Mana Regenerations, at least for Bard skills, those cannot be on items...

    Not sure if the Tamers' skills can be on items either to then more effectively be able to control one's own Pet....
    I dont have active bard, but according to uoguide having realskill in the bard skills only affects the mana upkeep not effectiness, havent tested myself.

    ofc you can use skill items for taming/Lore before the masteries i was to lazy to train up taming i ran with +30 taming on jewels.
    I was my understanding that, ALL Masteries, in order to take skill points to benefit them (better efficacy), need for those skill points to be "real", not on items...

    So, for example, having Animal Taming skill points on items, would reduce the efficacy of the Animal Taming Mastery, to my understanding....
    Yes but you cant have 2 masteries active at the same time. For taming you get increased mana upkeep cost with less realskill, i still use some +taming skill items as i run in wraith form and leech mana back from the spell dmg i do to the mobs.

    Remember its a game of compromises! We cant allways have everything…
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,019
    edited June 2021
    McDougle said:
    People keep explaining you keep not hearing real skill affects mana cost and up keep that is all 
    According to this Post here https://community.stratics.com/threads/provo-masteries-and-real-skill.400947/post-2943410 as well as this other Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/42087/#Comment_42087 REAL skill points affect the efficacy of Masteries....

    This Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/43531/#Comment_43531 says : 

    .... i believe shield bash damage is calculated on parrying real skill....

    and this Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/43541/#Comment_43541 says, flat out: 

    All masteries that take skill into effect are calculated on real skill.

    So, if one wants to get FULL benefit from a given Mastery, they should want to run the related skill for that Mastery with only real skill points, no skill points on items...

    That is at least the way I always understood it works....

    @kyronix , can you please clarify this once and for all ?

    In relation to Masteries, what exactly do "real" skill points affect for that Mastery ?

    The actual buffs which the Mastery provides as some players seem to indicate, or mere mana cost and upkeep as some other players seem to indicate ?

    Thank you SO much for the much welcomed clarification.
  • vortexvortex Posts: 216
    popps said:
    McDougle said:
    People keep explaining you keep not hearing real skill affects mana cost and up keep that is all 
    According to this Post here https://community.stratics.com/threads/provo-masteries-and-real-skill.400947/post-2943410 as well as this other Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/42087/#Comment_42087 REAL skill points affect the efficacy of Masteries....

    This Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/43531/#Comment_43531 says : 

    .... i believe shield bash damage is calculated on parrying real skill....

    and this Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/43541/#Comment_43541 says, flat out: 

    All masteries that take skill into effect are calculated on real skill.

    So, if one wants to get FULL benefit from a given Mastery, they should want to run the related skill for that Mastery with only real skill points, no skill points on items...

    That is at least the way I always understood it works....

    @ kyronix , can you please clarify this once and for all ?

    In relation to Masteries, what exactly do "real" skill points affect for that Mastery ?

    The actual buffs which the Mastery provides as some players seem to indicate, or mere mana cost and upkeep as some other players seem to indicate ?

    Thank you SO much for the much welcomed clarification.
    Why do you waste everyone's time trying to explain this to you if your asking a Dev now....
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,995
    popps said:
    McDougle said:
    People keep explaining you keep not hearing real skill affects mana cost and up keep that is all 
    According to this Post here https://community.stratics.com/threads/provo-masteries-and-real-skill.400947/post-2943410 as well as this other Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/42087/#Comment_42087 REAL skill points affect the efficacy of Masteries....

    So, if one wants to get FULL benefit from a given Mastery, they should want to run the related skill for that Mastery with only real skill points, no skill points on items...

    That is at least the way I always understood it works....

    @ kyronix , can you please clarify this once and for all ?

    In relation to Masteries, what exactly do "real" skill points affect for that Mastery ?

    The actual buffs which the Mastery provides as some players seem to indicate, or mere mana cost and upkeep as some other players seem to indicate ?

    Thank you SO much for the much welcomed clarification.
    OMG why are you jumping on tangents?  REAL Skill and primer III is needed to get the full benefits of Masteries.

    That player was using real 480 bard skills.  Bards don't need primers they are auto at all the masteries.
    He can use items to increase skills he is not using for masteries. 

    My 120 mage 120 Weaving 120 taming and lore can switch masteries to either one.  I ate the III primers.  Ten minute cool down.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • GwenGwen Posts: 210
    popps said:


    Now, if so, that could make sense ALTHOUGH, this also means that such a tamer could only have on the Template (to the purpose of Masteries skills HAVE TO BE real skills, cannot be on items...): 

    120 Musicianship
    120 Peacemaking
    120 Provocation
    120 Discordance
    120 Animal Taming
    120 Animal Lore

    No room for anything else, no Veterinary ro res a pet, no Spellweaving to use Gift of Life, no Magery to heal the pet if necessary and all that....

    Sure, a little Magery could be on items but, not enough to be effective on healing a pet...

    I mean, how many Tamers would run such a Template ?
    No, you counting wrong.
    For 22 regen resilence you need 4*120 bard skills. Real skills, no jewels allowed. 
    But to control Cu you need Animal Lore 108 (better be 110) and Animal Taming 108 (i use 112-113) .  No need real skill here, with jewels is OK. And pet obeys you.  120 taming and lore are usefull only for  running taming mastery Consume. Otherwise it is a waste of points. 
    Which gives you plenty of room to squeeze 110-120 magery in this template (with jewels too) to hold swords of prosperity or Kotl rod, or whatever for self-defence and invis if needed. You cannot hide running resilence but  it will often disattract mob.
  • GwenGwen Posts: 210
    Arroth_Thaiel said:

    ********
    https://forum.uo.com/discussion/7895/what-is-the-new-tears-of-the-ice-dragon-spellbook-good-for-any-advice/p1
    +20 magery  spellbook is no good here. You can have higher magery, but you will have no wrestling, (or no EvaInt +Anatomy) so any mongbat will hit you easy. I tried, everything hits you, poisons you and you are loosing stamina. And cannot run. And obtaining one more grey robe to your collection. . Way better to have some Mage weapon -0 with spell channel. Dont forget damage can interrupt bard song. Survivability is more important  than little extra healing. Difference is not very big. 
    At 93 Magery invis works 100% . This should be a milestone. Higher- good. Less mobs will hit you. 
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,019
    vortex said:
    popps said:
    McDougle said:
    People keep explaining you keep not hearing real skill affects mana cost and up keep that is all 
    According to this Post here https://community.stratics.com/threads/provo-masteries-and-real-skill.400947/post-2943410 as well as this other Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/42087/#Comment_42087 REAL skill points affect the efficacy of Masteries....

    This Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/43531/#Comment_43531 says : 

    .... i believe shield bash damage is calculated on parrying real skill....

    and this Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/43541/#Comment_43541 says, flat out: 

    All masteries that take skill into effect are calculated on real skill.

    So, if one wants to get FULL benefit from a given Mastery, they should want to run the related skill for that Mastery with only real skill points, no skill points on items...

    That is at least the way I always understood it works....

    @ kyronix , can you please clarify this once and for all ?

    In relation to Masteries, what exactly do "real" skill points affect for that Mastery ?

    The actual buffs which the Mastery provides as some players seem to indicate, or mere mana cost and upkeep as some other players seem to indicate ?

    Thank you SO much for the much welcomed clarification.
    Why do you waste everyone's time trying to explain this to you if your asking a Dev now....
    Because I get conflicting indications from different players which it shows me, that the issue is yet to be clearly known....

    And, in order for a Developer to "step in" and clarify the issue once and for all, I would guess that the Developer would also need to see how players are confused and divided on this matter....

    Considering the importance of Masteries in the gameplay of Ultima Online, one would imagine that a final clarification from the Developers would be important, to all players' benefit.
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,019
    Gwen said:
    popps said:


    Now, if so, that could make sense ALTHOUGH, this also means that such a tamer could only have on the Template (to the purpose of Masteries skills HAVE TO BE real skills, cannot be on items...): 

    120 Musicianship
    120 Peacemaking
    120 Provocation
    120 Discordance
    120 Animal Taming
    120 Animal Lore

    No room for anything else, no Veterinary ro res a pet, no Spellweaving to use Gift of Life, no Magery to heal the pet if necessary and all that....

    Sure, a little Magery could be on items but, not enough to be effective on healing a pet...

    I mean, how many Tamers would run such a Template ?
    No, you counting wrong.
    For 22 regen resilence you need 4*120 bard skills. Real skills, no jewels allowed. 
    But to control Cu you need Animal Lore 108 (better be 110) and Animal Taming 108 (i use 112-113) .  No need real skill here, with jewels is OK. And pet obeys you.  120 taming and lore are usefull only for  running taming mastery Consume. Otherwise it is a waste of points. 
    Which gives you plenty of room to squeeze 110-120 magery in this template (with jewels too) to hold swords of prosperity or Kotl rod, or whatever for self-defence and invis if needed. You cannot hide running resilence but  it will often disattract mob.
    120 taming and lore are usefull only for  running taming mastery Consume. 

    Yet, isn't the Animal Taming Mastery Consume an important Mastery to use for a Tamer ?
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,019
    edited June 2021
    Gwen said:
    +20 magery  spellbook is no good here. You can have higher magery, but you will have no wrestling, (or no EvaInt +Anatomy) so any mongbat will hit you easy. I tried, everything hits you, poisons you and you are loosing stamina. And cannot run. And obtaining one more grey robe to your collection. . Way better to have some Mage weapon -0 with spell channel. Dont forget damage can interrupt bard song. Survivability is more important  than little extra healing. Difference is not very big. 
    At 93 Magery invis works 100% . This should be a milestone. Higher- good. Less mobs will hit you. 
    Dont forget damage can interrupt bard song. 

    I would say that this one is a big one in favour of a -0 Mage Weapon and not of the +20 Magery spellbook for a Bard-Tamer....
  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 894
    popps said:

    120 taming and lore are usefull only for  running taming mastery Consume. 

    Yet, isn't the Animal Taming Mastery Consume an important Mastery to use for a Tamer ?
    I only find consume marginally useful for training pets....

    The balakai staff is useful if you're being chased.  But that doesn't mean you have to have that equipped/used at all times.
  • GwenGwen Posts: 210
    edited June 2021
    popps said:


    Yet, isn't the Animal Taming Mastery Consume an important Mastery to use for a Tamer ?
    For the persone who decided to have 4*120 bard skills and use peace mastery Consume is not important. You just cannot use 2 masteries of different skills at a time. That person uses resilence so more than 108/112 taming /lore will be a waste. 
    Also template with 4*120 bard skills is feasible without using Time of Legends booster. 
    You what, dont beleive that there are different templates and people have different sets of skills? What are you trying to know in this topic? Read mine and other people answers. Go to test server. try them all. 
    None of my tamers ever ate primer III or had 120 taming. I am too lazy to raise that and too greedy to spend gold on that primer. I am finding other ways to play. 

    Answer to your question:
    Taming mastery Consume is important for a Tamer who plans to rely on Consume. For other templates other masteries and skills are important. 

  • MariahMariah Posts: 3,239Moderator
    My apologies, I seem to be missing an update from publish 67. Also I suspect some input from Logrus some time ago. I have updated the page to the best of my ability, subject to the site update.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Can you have 3 bards all running different songs at the same time?  Inspire / Perseverance / Despair for example in a party?
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,995
    edited June 2021
    Bilbo said:
    Can you have 3 bards all running different songs at the same time?  Inspire / Perseverance / Despair for example in a party?
    Yes invigorate and resilience make you a tank.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • Arroth_ThaielArroth_Thaiel Posts: 1,060
    edited June 2021
    Bilbo said:
    Can you have 3 bards all running different songs at the same time?  Inspire / Perseverance / Despair for example in a party?
    Yes. However, the Discord songs are not direct party buffs, but rather monster debuffs/attacks. The whole party can take advantage of these monster debuffs/attacks though.

    If you have all three 4x120 bards in a party you'll have:
    2 party wide buffs from Provocation
    2 party wide buffs from Peacemaking
    2 monster debuffs/attacks from Discordance

    The more party members, the higher the mana upkeep cost for Provocation/Peacemaking songs. Discord songs mana cost are independent of party size.
    -Arroth
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,995
    edited June 2021
    Yes I had to increase my mana regen to run 2 songs when not alone. That's why I concentrate on the two best for a party. One from each bard. Resilience allows the other bard to run 2 songs.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    edited June 2021
    My suit right now is 150 Int  224 mana  31 MR  120 LRC  55 LMC  Working on building others.
    100 med  100 Focus  100 Mage  (85/85/70)
    120 music/peace/prove/discord REAL
    All 70s suit
  • GwenGwen Posts: 210
    edited June 2021
    Bilbo said:
    My suit right now is 150 Int  224 mana  31 MR  120 LRC  55 LMC  Working on building others.
    100 med  100 Focus  100 Mage  (85/85/70)
    120 music/peace/prove/discord REAL
    All 70s suit
    100 med + 150 INT  and 55 LMC (real overcapped LMC with bone/stone )  cannot work together. So you have wasted 100 points. + your INT points. 
    You better try to use them with them otherwise. Or have only 40 LMC with leather/cloth or mage  armor. . 
    Replacing MED withResist  will help you sing when mana-drained. Or increase your magery up to 120.

    You have also more LRC than needed. So you have room to squeeze more skills / stats. 
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