with archery or with a melee weapon... dismounts...became impossible

KingOfPvPKingOfPvP Posts: 5
edited March 21 in PvP / VvV
Please @Kyronix @Bleak review the change you did.

It's impossible to dismount in a fight now. Only Gargoyles can still use the cyclone and dismount as always.

Instead of keeping this change that makes impossible a dismount during a fight ( people keep moving and running, they don't stay still and wait for seconds...), why don't you make a dismount invulnerability on players, a five minutes dismount invulnerability would make more sense to me than ruining totally the pvp as it always been ( unless it's coming from a bola and then there is no invulnerability timer). 

So you can get dismounted once and after 5 minutes you can be dismounted again... it doesn't apply if they dismount you with a bola. Simple. And pvp will not be ruined.

Regards

Comments

  • CookieCookie Posts: 790
    edited March 21

    I've pvp'd a lot since the patch has been up for a few days, I've not noticed Dismount reducing yet, still being dismounted.

    End of the day, Dismount is the easy IWIN kill the pvp button, which should not even be there. It was ok on Bolas, that was it.

    It needs to be harder. If it has got harder - great.

  • KingOfPvPKingOfPvP Posts: 5
    Impossible to get dismounted now... only by gargoyles.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 245
    "can confirm they forgot to add the same dismounting rules to toggle flying/infused throw, please move to bug section"
  • hunter11hunter11 Posts: 165
    Yes it's given a massive advantage to having a stealther, throw a bolas and teleport, maybe pop smoke and shadow jump. It's taken the use away from an archer/ninja its tough to get a dismount ever now it wasn't a walk in the park before either but being able to set my dismount then mount was great, i'm literally worthless after years of the same template. Now what about gargoyles they can have a dismount up, then hop on foot and take their throw. All of this  because the no-dachi is way overpowered, it stuns you then you hop off, and dismount then, you can't mount until its healed and, if you're on a dexxer good luck its game over. It has messed the balance up a lot... Nerf the no-dachi its overpowered, all it's done is taken the flying no-dachi hits away, but don't hurt the dying archers!! Already cant hit anyone, everyone has wrestle/parry, and will literally disarm you as fast as you can arm, or they have bushido parry, and can have an insane parry chance with a two handed weapon. This is a serious unbalance to pvp so hard to hit anyone the way it is so an archer has a dismount up while mounted that he had to take the time to get off mount and set anyway... Doesn't even seem to have done much, besides stop the flying no-dachi! Again, as stated before, and hurt the ones who have one advantage, and it's the dismount the archer he gets hit by anything, disarm spammed and couldn't hit a death shot on a bushido mage 8-10 times. @Bleak what is all of this unbalance about? It's been one thing after another for the archer, first it's physical damage running shots, capped armor ignore damage to 30!!?? The archer puts everything he has into damage because, he has no defensive ability then his armor ignore is capped ok fine but, the last thing an archer had was a possible dismount by maybe having it up before he hit his feet, but let's keep nerfing them see if we can't kill them all off, took away the no names an, archers best friend I could go on for days, but I won't some moderator will shut this down already anyways, and if not no one important will listen! Thanks for your time to read this @Bleak   
  • CookieCookie Posts: 790
    edited March 21

    Why does everyone have parry/wrestle, ask yourself that one?

    Because you have to.

    This is even after they nerfed Parry Mages btw - to force mages not to use it.

    They added Parry into the focused list of skills, even though Parry clearly is not another Mage skill, therefore reduces mages SDI, yet still everyone has to use it. Why is that?

    Mages took a nerf, and are still forced to use those skills, exactly as I said when they did it. Which has allowed all those Dexxers to go mad on those Dismounts.

    The answer is still, all Dismount forms are over-powered - it takes 1 dismount to kill an entire pvp fight, that's all. 1 Dismount takes out a key player, which unbalances an entire team and turns it into a gankfest, which could have been fun fight with the movement and tactics.

    1 Dismount. It is fine quite frankly, if Dismount only works once every 10 minutes - if any skill should have a 10 minute cooldown - it is the Dismount skill. If you are worried a fight is lasting too long - then you get to use Dismount to bring someone down - but only after there has been a chance of PvP beforehand.

    They put a 30 minute cooldown on something as minor as Ethereal Blast - never heard of it? No wonder, Yet allow Dismounts to work every few seconds. Ethereal Blast AND Dismount should be balanced out at a 10 minute cooldown.

    {I have a bit of sympathy for Archer template alone - I get your point - but they still have far more options than Gargoyle Throwers btw - but also - if there was less Dismount going on, your Archer would be less vulnerable, think of it the other way, the answer is not more Dismounts, it is less. If there were Less Dismounts - then players would be more confident voluntarily removing Parry skill - again making it easier for the Archers.}.

  • The_Higgs_1The_Higgs_1 Posts: 378
    Parry became popular due to splinter not dismount.  Also partly due to high skill point temps, If you get an entire extras skill why not add max defense to your offense, such as necro parry mage or mystic parry mage.  None of it was due to dismount.  Nothing was wrong with dismount other then the stupid no dachi timer.  Script dismounting was a issue but thats the illegal program not dismount.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 790
    edited March 21
    Parry became popular due to splinter not dismount.  Also partly due to high skill point temps, If you get an entire extras skill why not add max defense to your offense, such as necro parry mage or mystic parry mage.  None of it was due to dismount.  Nothing was wrong with dismount other then the stupid no dachi timer.  Script dismounting was a issue but thats the illegal program not dismount.


    I'm sorry, but as a pvper in a predominately mage guild on a mage for 20+ years, I disagree.

    I know how it is.

    I don't care about splinter, it slows you down a bit, who cares. Yes it's annoying - but it has a certain balance, it is not OP, the fight can keep on moving, what was far worse, was the barrage of warrior specials that hit after, including dismount, which sealed your fate. Yes - the scripts made it far worse. But if it wasn't there in the first place.

    I also don't care about extra skills, I don't abuse that, and Bards can nullify those characters making them useless. When I take Parry, it is taking away from the rest of the template, I am forced into using it, and I'm a spellweaver, or scribe mage at heart.

  • The_Higgs_1The_Higgs_1 Posts: 378
    Without dismount people will just run forever, not to mention that it completely ruins every weapon in the game that has the special.  Pvp zergs will just get bigger and make pvp even less fun.  I rarely die after being dismounted cause I play with people who work together and heal.  Dismount is not a gamechanger it just keeps fights real instead of one single fight lasting 10 hours til one side quits due to boredom.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 790
    edited March 21
    Without dismount people will just run forever, not to mention that it completely ruins every weapon in the game that has the special.  Pvp zergs will just get bigger and make pvp even less fun.  I rarely die after being dismounted cause I play with people who work together and heal.  Dismount is not a gamechanger it just keeps fights real instead of one single fight lasting 10 hours til one side quits due to boredom.


    That's why I say have a 10 minute timer - if the fight is dragging on, it can be ended then by a Dismount.

    PvP zergs being bigger, is a good thing, it's more players/teams in PvP and Felucca, experiencing the best largescale flowing fights - by far the best pvp style out there.

    Whilst pvp zergs are a good thing, especially if there are a few of them, being dismount ganked by them is not so cool. You do want the chance of flowing pvp.

    You guys all seem to have forgotten how to kill without Dismounts - I feel sad when I listen to you all. You can trap players, you can sync, you can split them from their group, you can use actual skill and strategy.

    When you have more players involved, it encourages lesser skilled players to take part, they can be part of it and have fun, pvp isn't just the premise of elite players who have honed everything down to perfection, and when there are more average players around, it just gets all more fun. Dismount ruins the feeling of fun, it's as simple as that, no-one wants to come back after being Dismount ganked. No-one wants to be a Duck in a shooting gallery, no honour, no fun, no dignity.

  • quickbladequickblade Posts: 168
    This fix for dismount was suposed to be aimed at the dismount scripters. yet it turned out in a complete dismount nerf accross the board ( minus gargoyle apparantly ). Very sad , now its going to be running fights and just promote precast and dumps scenarios. Again the scripters penalize legit players, by trying to fix their shit.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 790
    edited March 21
    This fix for dismount was suposed to be aimed at the dismount scripters. yet it turned out in a complete dismount nerf accross the board ( minus gargoyle apparantly ). Very sad , now its going to be running fights and just promote precast and dumps scenarios. Again the scripters penalize legit players, by trying to fix their shit.


    Lol, the thought of actually having to pvp to get kills, it's a shocker for a lot of you :)

    Now you can genuinely go and get some skills, they are doing you a favour.

  • quickbladequickblade Posts: 168
    edited March 21
    Lol I will continue to dismount no worries Mr Cookie, I'm just saying they nerfed dismount for no reason while the issue was to fix the scripting. 

    It's like if we were to say : disarm is too op , so when you swap weapon you can't toggle disarm special move for a second.

    This fix just doesn't make sense. It's more annoying than anything, not being able to legit press two buttons back to back, it feels like they ruined whole archery gameplay by trying to fix the no-dachi/or teleport dismount scripting in the first place.

    But hey, the stealther dismounter thats not moving the whole fight is not affected by this nerf, because he's waiting for 2 minutes in stealth with the special move toggled, so it prove even more that this fix doesn't make sense again , nerf it all or dont nerf it.
  • hunter11hunter11 Posts: 165
    edited March 21
    you act like mages have it tough but they really don't do you realize a mystic mage with wrestle parry can curse me spell plague me and spam hailstorm and kill me with max healing anat pots and 4 second heals? like common that is broken and i hit them very little throw in a spell trigger and shield bash its over for sure...... the only issue with dismount was the "flying no-dachi" a script people run to jump off a tile away with dismount toggled archers have constantly been nerfed ever since they fix them being overpowered during samuri empire... fix the no dachi its overpowered but leave the rest of the foots alone no other weapon makes you heal your pet and stuns you like that... but instead lets just nerf it all except gargoyles for some reason i shouldn't even say anything or they'll nerf them too... and for once in my entire time of reading these threads I agree with @The_Higgs_1.... and archers took a massive hit when we lost no name armor also you need more stamina hit point increase items with regens but what we have is all we will ever have then it will be back to a slither and a crimson no more 210 stamina 
  • ezikelezikel Posts: 81
    am all happy with the nodachi nerf .but i agree with hunter archer need some love .1-there damage get nerfed ,its ok  but parry get never touched and make a big avantage to any temp with parry vs a archer . 2-archer need alot of stat 3-there are easy to disarm 4-if they use healing one splinter and they heal nothing only remove the bleed .5- the dont have the 300 skill mana bonus because there skill are not in the list but a bok mage got it ...

  • The_Higgs_1The_Higgs_1 Posts: 378
    lol dismount is wrong but wall trapping with scripts is ok.  just stop already
  • CookieCookie Posts: 790
    edited March 23
    lol dismount is wrong but wall trapping with scripts is ok.  just stop already


    Nobody said that anywhere?

    You are deflecting.

  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 371
    Dismount is not the problem.

    Parry/evade-Mages are always the common thread.    if they weren't so hard for a non-caster to hit, dismount wouldn't be required to kill them... between running (which dismount reduces) at any time and blocking/dodging attacks ~72.5% of the time (RNG), a parry/and/or/evade-mage is basically invulnerable against any non-caster in a one vs one situation, even while on foot the parry/evade-mage still has the upper-hand.  

    It's been like this for several years now bad mages keep complaining that parry is needed but they conveniently leave out they're referring to when outnumbered by 2 or more.



    Reduce parry block chance by 50% for characters with 50.0+ magery real OR modified

    Bushido - Evasion: shouldn't work at all when paired with Magery skill.

    at the bare minimum Evasion should be cancelled immediately upon casting any spell from any magic-school..
     -you cant use evasion & confidence at the same time without one cancelling out the other, you shouldn't be able to use evade & greater heal, or close wounds... or any other spell for that matter at the same time either.

    Get to it plz.

    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 245
    edited March 23
    "dismount scripting has now been re-enabled on all weapons, no longer a cooldown"
  • sibblesibble Posts: 71
    @CovenantX is completely right.

    The entire system is based on people being able to build whatever character they want with whatever skillset they want.  The problem occurs when game meta shifts and players are theory crafting and min-maxing.  Because, in a game like this where any template is possible, there's a ton of possibilities...

    You can't just let it be a free-for-all, there has to be limitations between skill usage, much like mixing caster skills with weapon skills.  Now I'm completely all FOR hybrid templates, it adds to the players "tool-kit" so to speak, more buttons to press etc.  The problem is when you add something to the game to compliment a genre of templates (dexers) and it spilling over to hybrid templates.  Parry is too strong for a hybrid template.  There should be either reduced block chance or some kind of diminishing returns when mixing Parry with a casting template.
  • LearnMeLearnMe Posts: 23
    The meta for competent pvp guilds is running a mystic dexxer to sleep and splint/disarm the target and have mages dump.  Dismounts are an issue for people who don't tele, don't carry extra mounts, don't have ninjitsu, don't have decent crosshealers.  

    For the ones complaining about gargoyles not being affected, they also can't instantly remount like an archer can. 
    For those complaining about stealth bola mages...lol. I can say on Atlantic there are two of us and it's only effective if we're running around alone trolling other fights or we have way too many people on.  If I hop off and throw a bola at you, I'm on foot with no parry til the bola throws, there's a reaaaaally high chance the bola doesn't even hit, and now I'm useless to any other aspect of the fight because I'm on foot for the duration of the timer plus ethy mount time.  

    Dismounts were fine til a couple people with no awareness complained they couldn't stay two tiles away from someone with a no dachi.
  • LynkLynk Posts: 155
    Dismount nerf was amazing.  10/10 would recommend to other MMOs.  I wouldn't change a thing and leave it exactly as it is.

    Wrestle/Parry are OP against dexer/archer.

    Evasion mages are OP against sync dumps.

    What you should really note is that its a rock paper scissor, which means balance.  Change your strategy based on what you're on vs what you're fighting.  If you're fighting an evade mage, you better either save your dump to when they're on evade timer or make sure someone is able to get the disarm.

    I don't even know why I'm talking about strategy I've not even seen another guild capable of syncing damage.


  • hunter11hunter11 Posts: 165
    Lynk said:
    Dismount nerf was amazing.  10/10 would recommend to other MMOs.  I wouldn't change a thing and leave it exactly as it is.

    Wrestle/Parry are OP against dexer/archer.

    Evasion mages are OP against sync dumps.

    What you should really note is that its a rock paper scissor, which means balance.  Change your strategy based on what you're on vs what you're fighting.  If you're fighting an evade mage, you better either save your dump to when they're on evade timer or make sure someone is able to get the disarm.

    I don't even know why I'm talking about strategy I've not even seen another guild capable of syncing damage.


    im sure you're quite fine with the dismount nerf considering the only dismounts your guild does is throwing a bola and.. you do have a shadow jumping stealth mage who does well at throwing the bola and disappearing.. plus its one of the things you guys have a hard time with... if it had an impact on you or your game plan/play im sure you'd be telling a different story, also not to acknowledge that the no-dachi was overpowered seems silly it's hands down apples and oranges compared to an archer.. who constantly gets nerfed without disarm an archer wont kill a decent wrestle parry mage or a evasion mage too easy to disarm spam archers non stop with a wrestle mage... which is another issue that should have a cool down on it... but thats not what this thread is about 
  • hunter11hunter11 Posts: 165
    also other than the wrestle parry disarm spam with absolutely no cool down I don't think they're op against archers just a lot of points in defense and hard to hit which is fine i have no problem with that 
  • hunter11hunter11 Posts: 165
    Cookie said:
    Without dismount people will just run forever, not to mention that it completely ruins every weapon in the game that has the special.  Pvp zergs will just get bigger and make pvp even less fun.  I rarely die after being dismounted cause I play with people who work together and heal.  Dismount is not a gamechanger it just keeps fights real instead of one single fight lasting 10 hours til one side quits due to boredom.


    That's why I say have a 10 minute timer - if the fight is dragging on, it can be ended then by a Dismount.

    PvP zergs being bigger, is a good thing, it's more players/teams in PvP and Felucca, experiencing the best largescale flowing fights - by far the best pvp style out there.

    Whilst pvp zergs are a good thing, especially if there are a few of them, being dismount ganked by them is not so cool. You do want the chance of flowing pvp.

    You guys all seem to have forgotten how to kill without Dismounts - I feel sad when I listen to you all. You can trap players, you can sync, you can split them from their group, you can use actual skill and strategy.

    When you have more players involved, it encourages lesser skilled players to take part, they can be part of it and have fun, pvp isn't just the premise of elite players who have honed everything down to perfection, and when there are more average players around, it just gets all more fun. Dismount ruins the feeling of fun, it's as simple as that, no-one wants to come back after being Dismount ganked. No-one wants to be a Duck in a shooting gallery, no honour, no fun, no dignity.

    dismount is needed in certain situations without the ability to dismount people in large group fights it can turn into non stop running and hard to get a team dump off which is fine yes but dismount is a part of the game and should be utilized.. plus most dismounters in the group fights should be put down asap when fighting in big zerg fights.. its a trade off really puts them at a lot of risk... and as far as no "honor" and that new guy or gal who hits a big group fight will get blown up asap for quite some time before they learn.. they will be the soft target called first usually 
  • LynkLynk Posts: 155
    The truth is now in order to dismount you have to pick your character placement and timing wisely.  Rather than just smashing your keyboard or holding a single key down to check proximity.
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