Despawning if no one is in the area for a while?

@Kyronix, Is it my imagination or does the game despawn things like merchant and pirate ships on the high seas if no one has been in the area for a while perhaps to not use CPU cycles?  The reason I ask is I will go merchant ship hunting east of Jhelom in Felucca and not encounter any ships, beacons, or mob spawn for quiet a while.  Since I do not encounter other player ships I am most likely the only player in the area. 
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Comments

  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 957Dev
    The ships do despawn after a while.  The spawn is per facet, so while ships may not be where you are they could be in other spawning areas.  

  • poppspopps Posts: 2,620
    edited January 20
    Kyronix said:
    The ships do despawn after a while.  The spawn is per facet, so while ships may not be where you are they could be in other spawning areas.  

    @Kyronix ;

    Thanks for the clarification.

    Does this despawn also hold valid for dynamic ToT spawn of Paragons (as I hope, considering how many players have often lamented the annoying issue of other players leaving Paragons unkilled after these other players have done their playing at a dynamic ToT Dungeon...), so as to avoid that players, after Paragons spawned, would leave them there, thus making the dungeon much harder for players who were to come next ?

    That is, do Paragons make use of this despawn code after an X time that they have not been killed, thus making room for normal spawn in their place ?

    And, should this despawn code corrently not be applied to dynamic ToT Paragons, could you please add it to them, so that the annoying issue that players often lament in regards to fellow players going to a dynamic ToT spawn and leaving behind them a whole bunch of Paragons which newcomers would then have to deal with, would no longer be possible ?

    Thanks. 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 5,119
    edited January 20
    We left a stuck Paragon WW in Ice stuck in the lake all day.  It was awesome not having those.
    Also in Deceit we would put some in rooms and they stayed all day.  We had a paragon closet, players would see how many they could stuff in there.

    Please do not despawn things in the dynamic spawns!

    Players need to learn how to move things around.
  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 957Dev
    Paragons don't despawn.  We will be addressing the mob stuck issue at dynamic events in the coming publish.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 5,119
    Kyronix said:
    Paragons don't despawn.  We will be addressing the mob stuck issue at dynamic events in the coming publish.
    Good on the no despawn. Sometimes the stuck ones are ok, if we can kill them if we want to. :)
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,620
    Kyronix said:
    Paragons don't despawn.
    @Kyronix

    I hope that you can reconsider this, considering how often it is a griefing way for players to leave behind them a whole bunch of Paragons which would then make gameplay much worse for those players who come after....

    This is an issue lamented by many players, across multiple Shards.
  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 957Dev
    edited January 21
    Why can't you kill the paragons?  They've got the phat lootz.  
  • KHANKHAN Posts: 394
    Kyronix said:
    Why can't you kill the paragons?  They've got the phat lootz.  
    I assume/hope you are making a joke, right? Because it is pretty common knowledge that they DON'T. They don't have, in your words "phat lootz". They have crap loot. Now, if you were to raise the loot table on them, It would solve a lot of the concerns. It would be worth taking the time to kill them, and people wouldn't complain. 
    If you sell UO items for R.L. $$$, you need to quit playing UO , and get a BETTER R.L. JOB!
  • KHAN said:
    Kyronix said:
    Why can't you kill the paragons?  They've got the phat lootz.  
    I assume/hope you are making a joke, right? Because it is pretty common knowledge that they DON'T. They don't have, in your words "phat lootz". They have crap loot. Now, if you were to raise the loot table on them, It would solve a lot of the concerns. It would be worth taking the time to kill them, and people wouldn't complain. 

    *chuckles* I think he is talking about the amount of "points" paragons give toward your next drop, which is quite a bit more than non-paragons of the same critter.
    -Arroth
  • JepethJepeth Posts: 313
    *chuckles* I think he is talking about the amount of "points" paragons give toward your next drop, which is quite a bit more than non-paragons of the same critter.
    Has that actually been confirmed?
  • Jepeth said:
    *chuckles* I think he is talking about the amount of "points" paragons give toward your next drop, which is quite a bit more than non-paragons of the same critter.
    Has that actually been confirmed?

    @Kyronix, you willing to confirm or dispel theories about this background game mechanic?
    -Arroth
  • PawainPawain Posts: 5,119
     :D
    Even Kyronix wonders why Popps is having trouble killing stuff! 

    popps said:

    I hope that you can reconsider this, considering how often it is a griefing way for players to leave behind them a whole bunch of Paragons which would then make gameplay much worse for those players who come after....

    This is an issue lamented by many players, across multiple Shards.
    As Kyronix said, you should have no trouble killing them.  Take the advice you are given and learn how to use your toons effectively.
  • CinderellaCinderella Posts: 1,312
    Pawain said:
     :D
    Even Kyronix wonders why Popps is having trouble killing stuff! 

    popps said:

    I hope that you can reconsider this, considering how often it is a griefing way for players to leave behind them a whole bunch of Paragons which would then make gameplay much worse for those players who come after....

    This is an issue lamented by many players, across multiple Shards.
    As Kyronix said, you should have no trouble killing them.  Take the advice you are given and learn how to use your toons effectively.
    I can understand popps comments.
    There has been several times where I would go to Ice Dungeon and there was a snow elemental paragon and 2 Artic ogre lord paragons at the front entrance. Taking them on by themselves is tough, but when you have that many in one location, its rough going. 

    I ended up just buying the drops, so I could get what snow hedges I could. And only went there with others, just a couple times (after Artisan Festival ended). by the time it ended, I only had 98K gold lol  
  • PawainPawain Posts: 5,119
    Learn to move spawn around. The area past sakkrah village where the dinos spawn is a good place to learn.  Pulling Rams out of their lair without moving the lichs is another good place to practice.

    I rarely had to fight 2 at once because I moved one out of the area then fought . 
    I was moving them with my warrior that had no hiding or invis.
  • MariahMariah Posts: 1,836Moderator
    edited January 21
    Jepeth said:
    *chuckles* I think he is talking about the amount of "points" paragons give toward your next drop, which is quite a bit more than non-paragons of the same critter.
    Has that actually been confirmed?

    @ Kyronix, you willing to confirm or dispel theories about this background game mechanic?

    Already stated here: https://forums.uo.com/discussion/comment/49313/#Comment_49313
    Kyronix said:
    Paragons will award more points than other creatures.  These points are then used to calculate your drop chance upon each kill.  So they have built-in benefit to killing them.




  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 957Dev
    Yup, mo' points mo' phat lootz.  Paragons will give more points.
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,620
    Pawain said:
     :D
    Even Kyronix wonders why Popps is having trouble killing stuff! 

    popps said:

    I hope that you can reconsider this, considering how often it is a griefing way for players to leave behind them a whole bunch of Paragons which would then make gameplay much worse for those players who come after....

    This is an issue lamented by many players, across multiple Shards.
    As Kyronix said, you should have no trouble killing them.  Take the advice you are given and learn how to use your toons effectively.
    I can understand popps comments.
    There has been several times where I would go to Ice Dungeon and there was a snow elemental paragon and 2 Artic ogre lord paragons at the front entrance. Taking them on by themselves is tough, but when you have that many in one location, its rough going. 

    I ended up just buying the drops, so I could get what snow hedges I could. And only went there with others, just a couple times (after Artisan Festival ended). by the time it ended, I only had 98K gold lol  
    And the same was also in Deceit Dungeon before Ice Dungeon.....

    There is simply players who would not kill the Paragons and, eventually, they pile up for who comes next having to spend the time, effort and labour to do the clean up of a whole lot of Paragons which, of course, given the high number, make everything far more difficult....

    @Kyronix , this does is an issue.... and it could be resolved by having the Paragons despawn if noone was interacting with them for, say, 10 or 15 minutes.

    Such despawn code would not alleviate trouble for scripters since, in presence of a character, the Paragon would not despawn.

    Yet, it would greatly benefit players who often have found the place filled up with Paragons because players who came to the Dungeon before them, did not have the care to clean them up, and, without a despawn code, eventually Paragons pile up and pile up some more....
  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 957Dev
    edited January 21
    Or you could kill them and get boatloads of points?....
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 1,884
    fear not I have tackled this issue head on myself I moved my Pally Thrower to Cats and will personally protect Popps from paragons...
  • PawainPawain Posts: 5,119
    Kyronix said:
    Or you could kill them and get boatloads of points?....
    Exactly!!!
  • KarynKaryn Posts: 28
    popps said:

    This is an issue lamented by many players, across multiple Shards.
    No, just you. 
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 455
    Thought the whole idea of this event was to kill paragons.  I don’t have an Uber mage but with slayers I could solo up though snow elementals.  The other paragons I could outrun or help other players kill. There where times when I had to avoid certain parts of the dungeon because of paragon drakes, dragons and ogres, but most of the time part of it was workable.  Paragons at the entrance were a problem but if I did not slow down I could usually run past them.  Think the key was to take your time keeping the path you were working clean so you could run when you had to. Would think it would be prudent to have a limit on how many paragons could spawn.  It would be unworkable for most if you had several dragon and drake paragons in every long tunnel.  Did find several tunnels like this on occasion but never all three.



  • AragornAragorn Posts: 284
    When I use my melee fighter i only wish frost ooze doesn't spawn as a paragon due to its moving speed. This is the scarcest paragon in the ice dungeon and others are fine. 

  • I almost always play a toe to toe melee. I have several melee characters that I normally use for these events. Just for the heck of it, I tried my mystic/mage/weaver (no taming) for about a week in the ice dungeon event. It was not enjoyable at all. The paragons (especially since they are beefed up), make a pure casters life heck. I have 150 SDI, top end arties, & every slayer book available. So, yeah, I can kill them with effort. But holy crap, without a pet to distract them, you spend most of the time running for your life trying to kite them. I switched back to my melee after that week. Just not worth the effort for me.
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 467
    Kyronix said:
    Yup, mo' points mo' phat lootz.  Paragons will give more points.

     It must not be enough extra points over non-paragons to make a noticeable difference.

    May need to put this is a bug report (thought I did, back when stratics was the place to do it, but anyway...)

    Also, are you aware that any "revamped" dungeon mobs are more difficult but drop lower quality loot as well as less quantity than non-revamped counterparts?

    an easy example of this would be a Blood elemental (Ilshenar & Wind) vs a Blood Elemental (Shame),  There's no 'party-size' bonus to the loot of any mob that was part of a 'revamp' either, even bosses like Cora & Exodus.  they drop the same quantity of items regardless of party size.
    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,620
    edited January 22
    CovenantX said:
    Kyronix said:
    Yup, mo' points mo' phat lootz.  Paragons will give more points.

     It must not be enough extra points over non-paragons to make a noticeable difference.

    May need to put this is a bug report (thought I did, back when stratics was the place to do it, but anyway...)

    Also, are you aware that any "revamped" dungeon mobs are more difficult but drop lower quality loot as well as less quantity than non-revamped counterparts?

    an easy example of this would be a Blood elemental (Ilshenar & Wind) vs a Blood Elemental (Shame),  There's no 'party-size' bonus to the loot of any mob that was part of a 'revamp' either, even bosses like Cora & Exodus.  they drop the same quantity of items regardless of party size.
    Exactly.

    If Paragons are supposed to be a Party Hunt, that is, with multiple players having to tackle them, how come that their loot is so scarce and meager ?

    Also, in regards to "points" that Paragons supposedly should award, @Kyronix , what happens when the player killing the Paragon is not 1, but 2 or 3 or more as often happens ?

    Do the points which the Paragon "supposedly" should award get "split up" among the various players tackling it or does every single player get the FULL amount of points which that Paragon supposedly is meant to award ?

    To make an example, let's suppose that a Paragon was meant to award 9% towards getting a drop versus 1% of the regular version of that monster (non paragon), say that 3 players fight together to take that Paragon down, does each and every of them get those 9% points boost (i.e., the 9% points that the Paragon gives get "tripled" to 18% to account for the 3 players hitting it) or is it more like each of them gets 3% (that is, 9% that the Paragon gives split among the 3 players hitting it) ?

    Because, that makes a whole lot of difference.... the time it takes, even for 3 players together, to take down a Paragon is way, but way more as what it takes to any single player of them to take down 3 regular, non Paragon monsters....

    And that is why lots of players disregard Paragons, they feel the time they take to kill is not worth their effort....

    Not to mention, also, the "opportunist players" who actually do not even kill them.... they just run around the dungeon to land a few hits on each of them, enough to get looting rights (and, thus, a boost to their chances at a drop), and never stay the time it takes to actually kill a Paragon.... they leave the extraordinary time it may take to actually "kill" the Paragon to other player...

    I have noticed quite a good number of these "opportunist" players...., they run all over the Dungeon landing a few hits here and a few hits there, never really killing much, but in the end getting a whole lot of drops because it is "other" players who then have to take the effort and time to actually concretize the kill........ and the end result, often, is that Paragons get left behind, not killed......

    Are you completely sure that, in your Design of the related mechanics, you have factored in any and all expected types of playing behaviour from players and have not left out some, thus making room for issues like that which several players have lamented of Paragons be left unkilled and piling up in dynamic ToT Dungeons to make things way more difficult for those players who happen to come next and find the Dungeon filled up with unkilled Paragons ?

    Just wondering......
  • MargeMarge Posts: 514
    9 x 3 = 27
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,620
    edited January 22
    Marge said:
    9 x 3 = 27
    LOL, my bad, sorry, still sleeping <span>:smiley:</span>

    By the way, I imagine that it is looting right which grants to a player those points towards drops and not the actual kill since, obviously, only 1 player in a group can land the killing blow so, if it was the actual "kill" which granted points, only 1 player in a group would get them from killing the Paragon, the other players still participating in the fight would remain empty handed...

    Therefore, if it is looting rights, as I imagine, it makes sense to me that I see quite a number of players who actually do not stay all the time needed to actually kill a Paragon, but only run up and down the Dungeon landing a few blows here and a few blows there to get, in their playing time, looting rights to a way higher number of MoBs and, thus, maximize their drops in their playing time....

    Too bad, though, that the result of this players' behaviour may end up in Paragons not getting killed and, thus, piling up, thus making things way more difficult for other players who come next to the Dungeon and find a whole lot of Paragons piled up all over the place....

    That is why I would see it much fit to see the despawn code be applied to dynamic ToT Paragons, to take care of this issue and avoid seeing Paragons pile up in a dynamic ToT dungeon to the point where players may have serious trouble getting into it to play and try get some drops....

    And, actually, to my opinion applying the despawn code to dynamic ToT Paragons, especially if with a low timer, would work as a great deterrant against this practise of only landing a few hits for looting rights only (without staying for all the fight until the kill of the Paragon), and then move onto the next one so as to maximize drops in the shortest time, leaving the endured fight and the killing to other players, because then, if the Paragon despawned, the player would have wasted their time by just landing a few hits for looting rights and not having stayed all the necessary time for the kill....

    In short, adding a despawn code with a short timer, is my opinion, would actually work towards being a great incentive for players to want to stay for the entire fight until the Paragon is actually killed, so as to make sure that they do get the credit towards a drop from it...

    It would be a great way to address this issue of players only landing a few hits for looting rights and not actually staying for the endured fight until the Paragon is dead.

    And it would work towards making sure that the dynamic ToT Dungeons would no longer see such an accumulation of Paragons pile up that can make the gameplay of some players nigh to impossible in them, because of that accumulation of Paragons.....

    That is at least how I see it.
  • GoldieGoldie Posts: 124
    edited January 22
    My take on this subject, paragons are not to be killed in siege, if you are a lucky person that a certain guild lets you stay for awhile to kill the small spawn slowly, but if you get caught killing a paragon that guild will kill you.
      I asked a person on siege why they dont kill paragon, I said  kyronix had said more points better stuff, well he responded with its much faster to kill the small stuff then to 

    Please no more small areas for the events like this, ICE was to small. thank you. thank you

  • poppspopps Posts: 2,620
    edited January 22
    Goldie said:
    My take on this subject, paragons are not to be killed in siege, if you are a lucky person that a certain guild lets you stay for awhile to kill the small spawn slowly, but if you get caught killing a paragon that guild will kill you.
      I asked a person on siege why they dont kill paragon, I said  kyronix 

    Well, thank you for your feedback.

    I guess, then, that if the Developers were to apply a despawn code with a short timer for Paragons at dynamic ToT Events, this would take care of also this issue that you lament.

    Yet another good reason, I guess, to apply a despawn code with a short timer to dynamic ToT Paragons.... you can catch 2 birds with 1 stone, Developers.... so, why not do it ?

    As in regards to what you also point out, I also agree that dynamic ToT Events should be spanned on a much larger area as compared to what the limited surroundings of a Dungeon could allow....

    I posted a Thread suggesting this here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/7906/does-the-new-dynamic-tot-spawn-tool-permit-events-on-a-larger-area-then-a-dungeon and @Kyronix posted about this in another Thread, among else, here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/51921/#Comment_51921 ,
    A complete open world Treasures is out right now, we are restricted to using a dungeon (and certain open areas in Ilsh) due to spawning limitations for creatures.  
    While these Kyronix's words sound disappointing for me to hear, I seem to understand that, the way the sentence was phrased, this might only be a "temporary" limitation and that, hopefully, it is in the Developers' plans to make it possible for a complete open world Treasures on a much larger area as a Dungeon might permit....

    Or, at least, so I hope.


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