BLOCK EJ and free accounts from Gen Chat

JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 996
edited November 2020 in General Discussions
I don't care if it upsets people

Dev's, its high time to lock out the gold spammers once and for all

If you do not pay to play then you do NOT have the privilege of gen chat to spam you illegal goods and site

@Mesanna WHY have you not already done this????????????????????

These morons create accts so quick the filter cannot keep up and I am fed up with the spammer's crap in my journal

Comments

  • poppspopps Posts: 4,018
    Well, and once they are at it, I will also look into a way to stop free, EJ accounts to be used as hidden Cams to monitor activity in Felucca ruleset areas....

    There was a change applied to Ghost Cams which are now booted to a random Shrine after a while (I think the time could have been set as a shorter one but oh well....), which is a good thing, but now, those who were using Ghost Cams have switched to using EJ hidden characters instead which do not get booted....

    Now, I realize that EJ hidden characters can be tracked and revealed and then killed but, this takes skill points in Tracking and Detect hidden....

    And, I do not see why paying customers (subscribed accounts) should be disadvantaged in their game play to have to pick up Tracking and Detect Hidden and their already squeezed with skill points Templates to the advantage of EJ free accounts which bring no revenues from subscriptions to Ultima Online.

    I tried to bring up this issue here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/6673/ghost-cams-and-hidden-ejs-cams-what-about-finally-getting-rid-of-them

    Basically, my suggestion was, in that thread, to address EJ Hidden Characters to be used as Ghost Camswith something like this....

    One starting way could be some automated monitoring of characters from the servers when they sit moreless in the same given area, hidden and/or stealthing, doing basically nothing or hardly anything for extended times.

    Sure, a player might sit in a given area even for hours for farming purposes but they actually "do" something there like fight spawning characters, mine, chop woods etc., all activities which "reveal" the character.

    A character staying in the same given area, hidden, or at most stealthing around for more then a few minutes, should ring some bells about the why it really is there and to do what, and possible actions against it could be the suspention of the account pending a review by a GM, if the server detects such a character to stay hidden and/or stealthing in a given, limited area, for longer that, say, 15 or 20 minutes even when coming out of hiding now and then....

    Yes, I know that many players often play as hidden like tamers or others but, as I said, their pet would still interact with the surroundings and thus not flag their account for suspicious Hidden EJ Cam activity...

    The entire point of an Hidden EJ Cam is not to be seen because if it is, its presence is of course reported to others in the area. So, even if the script was to now and then take the Hidden EJ character out of hiding not to have it flagged by the server and have the account automatically suspended pending GM reviewing, such breaking of the hiding would highly put that EJ Cam at risk of being seen by others in the area and, thus, make its use pointless as a reporting Hidden EJ Cam......

    What my point is, that I think that there can be solutions that can be found towards getting rid for good of Ghost Cams and Hidden EJs Cams, then why I keep seeing players on the Forums now and then lamenting about them ?

    Why cannot they be addressed for good, once and for all, with a solution that was to deal with them permanently, making their use no longer possible or viable ?                


  • This is where the devs are damned if they do and damned if they don't. It used to be very common in Korean MMO's that you cannot talk in chat channels until you are say level 20 or so in order to combat spammers & gold sellers. It was so frustrating not being able to ask questions in chat that I finally quit. Many people in those games felt the same way and posted on the forum about it.
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,018
    This is where the devs are damned if they do and damned if they don't. It used to be very common in Korean MMO's that you cannot talk in chat channels until you are say level 20 or so in order to combat spammers & gold sellers. It was so frustrating not being able to ask questions in chat that I finally quit. Many people in those games felt the same way and posted on the forum about it.
    Well, I guess that, this and other issues in Ultima Online could be possibly solved without hurting legittimate players gameplay, if the "root" of the problem was addressed.... scripting....

    I would imagine that, most of these players do not actually manually run these BOTs be them the spammers or the EJ Hidden Cams or the gold farmers and so forth, but they run "script" to control them from AFK....

    So, I would imagine that, with the UO Client having a built in way to detect scripts, that is, repetitive behaviour in UO, and tag these Templates scripting in the game for Game Masters intervention on these scripters, it could be possible to address quite a few of the problems that players lament, without hurting legittimate players who are "at the keyboard" playing their characters....
  • quickbladequickblade Posts: 323
    edited November 2020
    Or they could just add a small box option to check : Enable/Disable view EJ accounts chat .

    This way it gives the option to players if they want to see EJs chat to help new players exemple , or disable it to not see all the gold spammers
  • qweryqwery Posts: 25
    How about not being able to join the chat until your total skill exceeds 450?
    Shut down the RMT chatbot without excluding EJ players. It's very hard to have to balance both.
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 1,404
    Not sure what you are talking about here.  Could you explain to someone who has not been playing for years just what you are taking about.  Don’t really know what a gold spammer is, never heard of a ghost cam and not sure how having an invisible ej player would be that helpful when it would timeout after 6 minutes unless the player moved it before it timed out.  Not trying to be critical.  Have taken an interest in this game and really like to understand better what everyone is trying to say in this thread.
  • MargeMarge Posts: 722
    Gold Spammer is the 'guy' Avatar in gen chat that advertises his gold site every 20 minutes ish.
    Ghost Cams are toons that stay dead so pvper's can leave at popular champion spawn entrances to watch for people to go in so they know when to pk them. An invised EJ toon would function the same way. They would just move something in the backpack when they checked for any names in the journal.
  • They need to just shutdown the whole experiment of EJ accts.  Its done nothing but promote illegal play since its inception!
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,926
    edited November 2020
    Arnold7 said:
    Not sure what you are talking about here.  Could you explain to someone who has not been playing for years just what you are taking about.  Don’t really know what a gold spammer is, never heard of a ghost cam and not sure how having an invisible ej player would be that helpful when it would timeout after 6 minutes unless the player moved it before it timed out.  Not trying to be critical.  Have taken an interest in this game and really like to understand better what everyone is trying to say in this thread.
    The problems they described are real but not show-stoppers for most of us... esp. if you don't play Fel champspawn on specific shards.

    The repeated ads on gen chat has been around since I returned in 2015. 

    The real show stoppers are the basic bugs like maps, chat window, and health bars. I am fine if the game graphics look like 1990s, but all the bugs make me feel like playing a beta game client from the 90s. 

    Back to the topic, I keep seeing accounts banned for advertising in each newsletter... but also keep seeing the same guy advertising on the chat for so many years. This makes the data look suspicious...  :/

    Whatever the stats, they are just numbers. Its the actual experience that count.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,018
    qwery said:
    How about not being able to join the chat until your total skill exceeds 450?
    Shut down the RMT chatbot without excluding EJ players. It's very hard to have to balance both.
    Would not work... they would simply script AFK some skills to go beyond 450 total and thus bypass the limitation... it would not solve the issue, IMHO.
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,018
    Arnold7 said:
    Not sure what you are talking about here.  Could you explain to someone who has not been playing for years just what you are taking about.  Don’t really know what a gold spammer is, never heard of a ghost cam and not sure how having an invisible ej player would be that helpful when it would timeout after 6 minutes unless the player moved it before it timed out.  Not trying to be critical.  Have taken an interest in this game and really like to understand better what everyone is trying to say in this thread.
    @Arnold7
    A Gold spammer is those annoying messages we see all the time in General Chat, usually, from what are usually called RMTers....

    Ghost Cams have been used extensively to monitor Felucca ruleset areas through scripts, so that "Raiders" could jump "on the fly" to players who had been entering a given area, for example a Champion Spawn for Powerscrolls.... but also other areas.

    If you only play in Trammel it is understandable that you have never had to do with Ghost Cams...

    The issue has been so bad, that some Guilds who play Shard A, for example, but have several Ghost Cams monitoring Felucca ruleset areas on another Shard, say Shard B, when their script would alert them that someone had been interacting with an area where they had their Ghost Cam planted, they would immediately cease what they were doing on their Shard A to all jump to Shard B and raid the poor fellows who were trying to get a spawn done or something else...

    It is bad, REALLY bad because it permits to BOTs and AFK playing, with multiple UO Clients, and with free of charge EJ accounts to basically disrupt and destroy the gameplay of lots and lots of leggittimate players who, instead, PLAY AT THEIR KEYBOARD and pay the subscription for their account....

    This was somehow addressed by forcing Ghosts to be ejected to a random Shrine after some time that they are hanging out an area. While being a start, I think that the time set for the booting is too long, and should be shortened. Ghost Cams are still used, albeit less as before, to AFK Script monitor areas in Felucca rulesets....

    Hidden EJ characters, are what has now kicked in to work around the change to Ghosts Cams...
    The 6 minutes timeout which you talk about, does nothing to this problem since these Hidden EJ characters are SCRIPTED and, so, they never time out....
    They are scripted to stay indefinitively logged and to report activity in the Area where they are positioned.

    They do what Ghost Cams used to do, basically, but with Hidden EJ characters...

    Again, we have FREE accounts which bring no Revenue to Ultima Online being used to disrupt the gameplay and enjoyment of PAYING Ultima Online Customers....

    I honestly cannot understand why this Status Quo is not more aggressively and actively addressed by the Developers... how can they think that NOT PAYING EJ Accounts can bring more Revenues and benefits to UO then Subscription paying Accounts can, beats me....

    To be it should be obvious.... crank down and STOP for good the use of AFK Scripted Hidden EJ characters to monitor Felucca Ruleset areas and goes AGAINST and disrupts the gameplay of players who, instead, PAY for their Subscriptions....

    I would imagine that supporting players who PAY for their Account subscription should be the Priority # 1 for those who run Ultima Online, and not instead let FREE EJ Accounts being used to disrupt, detriment and hurt the gameplay and fun of those players who PAY for their Ultima Online enjoyment....
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,538
    edited November 2020

    @popps - I want to comment on your current obsession with ghost cams. {And randomly attacking Felucca for unbased reasons}

    This is another bee you have in your bonnet, over something that is not really happening. It's another case of, if you got out there and played, you would understand what is or isn't happening.

    If you think about it, ghost cams take a lot of time and effort to set-up. You are setting up say 10 accounts at 10 different spots, with 10 screens that either have to be monitored full-time, or set-up to send back scripted reports of activity when it is seen, which players need to receive and then enact.

    When is this worth doing? It's only worth doing, if Powerscrolls are really really worth something, if the competition is really intense. This is not the case currently. For the last month, Deceit has taken over everything, very few people can be bothered with the time or effort to complete, or raid champion spawns.

    When can it be done? When 1 guild completely dominates Felucca. This is quite a rare scenario, and does not ever happen for that long period of time. You can only do it if you completely dominate, and all those players within that guild are subscribed to the idea that their method of play is to dominate champion spawns in this manner. It just doesn't happen anymore. I've said it so many times, Felucca is self-balancing, self-regulating, player justice does happen. If 1 guild gets too big, others adjust or ally to compensate to bring that guild down. Largescale Feluccan Raiding guilds usually don't last that long, as Ego's, real life, arguments, bickering get in the way. If a PvP guild gets too big, none of the PvPers in that guild are getting enough PvP, so they self-regulate by leaving, and setting up smaller guilds, so they get almost equal amounts of PvP.

    Think about the organiser behind running Ghost Cams. Does that player really want to spend his life doing this? The answer is no, this is not a sustainable way of living for anyone really.

    I'm not saying it hasn't happened, it has happened in the past, but it never really lasts that long, as the above conditions I mentioned for it to happen, occur very infrequently, that someone thinks it's worth all that effort. These days, if it does happen, it's very sporadic, they only usually check main routes which everyone should know about anyway, and all active Feluccan guilds know about where they are anyway. Again, it's all part of being part of the community, or a guild, and you will have the knowledge to play your way around it, it becomes part of the strategic cut and thrust that makes Felucca what it is.


    You have just wasted 20 minutes of my time. Please send me a cheque for £200.


    As to your main point - Gold Spammers, I agree in the main here. My actual suggestion would be, limit EJ accounts to the Help Chat channel for new players, or the Trade channel? Don't allow them into the main general chat channel? That way, an EJ account can get help when needed, or those accounts can spam Trade freely if they want to.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,538
    Just want to put an Edit on your above post, to differentiate between ghost cams, or EJ cams. I was talking in the main about ghost cams, but EJ cams are even easier to deal with, we all have scouts with tracking and detect hide, and we just locate and kill them, job done. The concept of EJ cams lasted about 5 minutes on our server.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,538
    edited November 2020
    They need to just shutdown the whole experiment of EJ accts.  Its done nothing but promote illegal play since its inception!


    I personally have used EJ accounts to bring 2 new UO accounts into the game.

    UO is an expensive game, and it's allowed me to give my 2 boys a taster as to whether they like it or not, before committing to paying £100/year x 4 + 8 x Expansion pack costs + any other UO Store Items you may feel you want. I've just recently bought the Virtue Shield, and Smugglers Edge. I have 25 Soulstones, bought via ingame gold, Vet rewards, or UO Store. etc.


    Yes I accept some are using EJ accounts to just add to their stable, and some illegal activity, as always it's the actions of the few that ruin it for the masses. Overall, EJ accounts capability have been fairly well balanced. Again - as I mention above with Ghost/EJ Cams - who is going to take it all that seriously to use and set it all up in the first place? If that's your gamestyle, then fair enough, play your own gamestyle and enjoy it, don't need to be knocking others all the time, or worrying about what everyone else is up to all the time.


    2 advantages of EJ accounts

    1.They allow new players a free taster.

    2. They increase player traffic in the game. All Pay to Win games allow Free to Play players in, they seriously disadvantage them, but it increases player traffic, which stops a game appearing dead. If a PtW game has only players involved who are spending tons of cash, the competition between them gets so intense and toxic, it destroys the game. FTP players are an essential part of PTW games. Quite often they are treated as Cannon Fodder for sure - but that is the trade-off in getting to play the game for free.


  • poppspopps Posts: 4,018
    Cookie said:

    If you think about it, ghost cams take a lot of time and effort to set-up. You are setting up say 10 accounts at 10 different spots, with 10 screens that either have to be monitored full-time, or set-up to send back scripted reports of activity when it is seen, which players need to receive and then enact.

    Not really, when it is done by X Raiders splitting the locations 2 or 3 each which is quite feasible on 1 Computer and 1 Monitor (multiple clients of course), 4 or 5 people could get to control 10 to 15 locations quite easily.... it only takes a few minutes to set in place 2 or 3 characters...

    Furthermore, the script only takes effort once, when they write it, and then they can just pass it along them... and they do not even need to check those client windows, if their script is set up to work in the background and send an audible alert...

    They just go to their regular playing and only take action when the script alerts them, pass the info to the others and then decide where to gather to Raid the location.

    No time wasted other then a few minutes to place in location the EJ Hidden Cams and fire up their script.

    When is this worth doing? It's only worth doing, if Powerscrolls are really really worth something, if the competition is really intense. This is not the case currently. For the last month, Deceit has taken over everything, very few people can be bothered with the time or effort to complete, or raid champion spawns.

    There is people, you might be surprised to hear that, who might not do it for any profit at all, they do not care about the scrolls, they likely already have more then they can use or sell, stockpiled in their Powerscroll Books..... they Raid, simply to disrupt fellow players' gameplay... for them, I understand, their "win" is not to steal a Champ and get the Powerscrolls, but, rather, to stop other players from being able to get them....

    Also, because in this way, if others are blocked to earn their own scrolls, the hundreds or perhaps even thousands of Powerscrolls that they have stockpiled in their Powerscrolls Books (each of these Books can hold 300 and some of these players have several of these books all filled up...), can be sold for more... they can SET the price of powerscrolls to whatever they may want, if they have a Monopoly on them....

    When can it be done? When 1 guild completely dominates Felucca. This is quite a rare scenario, and does not ever happen for that long period of time. You can only do it if you completely dominate, and all those players within that guild are subscribed to the idea that their method of play is to dominate champion spawns in this manner. It just doesn't happen anymore. 

    Several of these Veteran players who still play Ultima Online, are long past their wealth accumulation or Template development and high-end gear stockpiling, they either lost interest in playing UO any longer having reached all highs that they could reach, or, in some cases, might have stayed no longer for those motifs, but just to block others in their ability to get Powerscrolls or other stuff obtainable only within the Felucca ruleset areas.

    And it is not even about the PvP challenge, at least to my opinion, since they have their characters all geared up, a lot more then those players attempting to get the scrolls who, clearly, if they do that, are still developing their Template, need them for their pets, are basically much less "a match" as those Raiding....

    My personal opinion, is that, at this point in life of Ultima Online, quite a few of these Raiders are not motivated by taking a Champ away for Powerscrolls, nor for a PvP Challenge but, rather, just to prevent other players from being able to get powerscrolls on their own.

    And therefore, these players are stopped or much slowed in their ability to advance in the game.

    Some stick trying, whether trying to do it on unpopulated Shards or at times when hardly anyone is logged online, but some other players, unfortunately, just decide that the effort is not worth their entertainment time and move to other games, eventually, depriving Ultima Online of their subscription's revenues.

    I've said it so many times, Felucca is self-balancing, self-regulating, player justice does happen. If 1 guild gets too big, others adjust or ally to compensate to bring that guild down. Largescale Feluccan Raiding guilds usually don't last that long, as Ego's, real life, arguments, bickering get in the way. If a PvP guild gets too big, none of the PvPers in that guild are getting enough PvP, so they self-regulate by leaving, and setting up smaller guilds, so they get almost equal amounts of PvP.

    I am sorry, but I have zero faifth in players self-regulating.... and this is not just about Ultima Online, but in any games... hell, if our real societies were to be self-regulating and not having Laws and written rules with sanctions and punishments thought up for breaching them, we would be living in chaos and anarchy all the time, to my opinion....

    It simply is something which I do not think it can work, period.

    Think about the organiser behind running Ghost Cams. Does that player really want to spend his life doing this? The answer is no, this is not a sustainable way of living for anyone really.

    As I said, it is not necessary to have 1 players checking out 10-15 scripts, but more easily, to have 5 or 6 players, all Raiders, each being able to set up 2 or 3 extra Clients running the same alerting script besides the one that they normally use to play.

    And voila', those 5 or 6 players could then easily monitor 15+ locations in just a few minutes...

    I'm not saying it hasn't happened, it has happened in the past, but it never really lasts that long, as the above conditions I mentioned for it to happen, occur very infrequently, that someone thinks it's worth all that effort. These days, if it does happen, it's very sporadic, they only usually check main routes which everyone should know about anyway, and all active Feluccan guilds know about where they are anyway. Again, it's all part of being part of the community, or a guild, and you will have the knowledge to play your way around it, it becomes part of the strategic cut and thrust that makes Felucca what it is.

    I think that it is still happening, less then in the past past simply because there is less players in Ultima Online and even less going into Felucca.

    Notheless, though, I think that it should still be an issue that merits to be addressed and fixed because I do not see why, subscribed, paying customers attempting to get a few Powerscrolls to advance their character or scroll up their pet, should be disrupted in their gameplay by Raiders using a bunch of free EJ Hidden characters not bringing any revenue to Ultima Online.

    As to your main point - Gold Spammers, I agree in the main here. My actual suggestion would be, limit EJ accounts to the Help Chat channel for new players, or the Trade channel? Don't allow them into the main general chat channel? That way, an EJ account can get help when needed, or those accounts can spam Trade freely if they want to.

    I am still convinced that the "main" way to address this issue, and solve a TON of other issues in Ultima Online along with it, would be to finally have a Script detector for in-game activities built in the UO Client.

    Whenever a player was to be using a script, whether a Gold spammer, a Ghost Cam or Hidden EJ Cam, or a resource gatherer or a spawn farmer, the Script detector would alert a Game Master who'd take a closer look at the allegged perpetrator and take consequential actions when needed, towards the account.


  • poppspopps Posts: 4,018
    edited November 2020
    Cookie said:
    Just want to put an Edit on your above post, to differentiate between ghost cams, or EJ cams. I was talking in the main about ghost cams, but EJ cams are even easier to deal with, we all have scouts with tracking and detect hide, and we just locate and kill them, job done. The concept of EJ cams lasted about 5 minutes on our server.
    While it is possible to have Scouts with Tracking and Detect Hidden, that "eats" skill points not only into the Template but, most importantly, wastes a whole lot of playing time for the players having to "secure" an area with Scouts, so to speak, before actually going there...

    Considering the limited range for Tracking, and the fact that even 100 Tracking and 100 Detect Hidden can still fail to track characters when Elves with high Stealth and Hiding skill, it is necessary for players trying to work a given spawn, to spend a serious amount of time tracking multiple times every few tiles all over the place since they have no clue where the Hidden EJ could be located....

    So we got subscribed, paying customers having to spend a huge chunk of their entertaiment, plaaying time to have to track an area for Hidden EJ characters while on the other end, we have FREE, not bringing subscription revenues to Ultima Online Hidden EJ characters being used AFK, with scripts, to monitor the activity on a given area, and thus costing NO TIME to those running them.

    How can this be balanced if I may ask ?

    Customers who actually BRING MONEY to the game are let to be disrupted in their gameplay and forced to have to WASTE a good chunk of their playing time in Tracking and Detect Hidden all over the place because players who bring NO MONEY through subscriptions (EJ accounts can be used free of subscription) can AFK Script their Hidden EJ Characters to monitor those areas ?

    And I am the only one seeing something DEAD WRONG here for Ultima Online as a whole ?

    Go figure....
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,538
    edited November 2020

    My response to your entire post, there are a couple of lines I could pull-out, highlight and use for the exact response, but I'm not going to.

    Is this your playstyle? Is this what you do every single second of your gametime? Have you actually set-up the ghostcams/EJ Cams, to see how easy it all is? Are you playing in a Feluccan guild that is achieving all of this for whatever reasons? Is this how you think? Do you know how these players think? Do you play in a Feluccan guild that actively counters all of this?

    The answer for you, I suspect is no to every single one of those questions. So why are you guessing about something you don't know what you are talking about? For me and so many others who read your long long posts, we are just thinking, you have no clue what you are talking about.

    The answer for me, is Yes, this is what I do, I know how I think. This is my playstyle. I'm telling you how it actually is.

    Maybe our Rogues/Scouts like having Detect Hidden and Tracking on their characters? Maybe it gives us, as paying customers, an actual real ingame reason to even use them, and justify the existence of those skills?

    I will finish by saying, as I always do to players who are talking blindly about Felucca, join a Feluccan guild, take part in the action, the drama, the suspense, the tragedy, the real sandbox  storyline being created in Ultima Online. We never fail to pull off amazing, funny, witty, creative, flukey events, we pulled off something special yesterday, and the victim who is a fellow Feluccan, saw how special it was, and actually laughed with us.


    Going to add an Edit. When I read your posts, so much of your mentality is like so many other Trammel players, who want to go to Felucca and conquer it solo, and get all the gains and rewards solo. This was never what it was about. Felucca is about teamplay, it's the main game. You don't have to have Tracking, you can be the Tamer for their pvm, you can fit into whatever role you want to fit into, crafter, scout, pvper, whatever, but you cannot expect to do it all on your own.


  • poppspopps Posts: 4,018
    edited November 2020
    Cookie said:

    Going to add an Edit. When I read your posts, so much of your mentality is like so many other Trammel players, who want to go to Felucca and conquer it solo, and get all the gains and rewards solo. This was never what it was about. Felucca is about teamplay, it's the main game. You don't have to have Tracking, you can be the Tamer for their pvm, you can fit into whatever role you want to fit into, crafter, scout, pvper, whatever, but you cannot expect to do it all on your own.

    I will answer to this part, because I think it as relevant to the discussion.

    I would have zero issues if the accounts being used to set up Hidden Characters were from subscribed and paying accounts AND actually manned by a live player, not scripted AFK....

    I have tons of issues about FREE EJ accounts being used AFK and scripted.

    Players who actually pay and bring revenues to Ultima Online get disrupted in their gameplay by FREE and AFK scripted characters who bring no revenues to Ultima Online from subscriptions.

    This is DEAD WRONG, as I said, and totally unbalanced.

    Raiders have all rights in the World to go check, in Felucca ruleset areas, for targets to hunt but, only to my opinion, if they do it with their paying, subscribed accounts in case of Hidden Cams, AND actually being at the keyboard when roaming the Land in search for their targets whether using a subscribed account or an EJ one, thus using their in-game time, and not scripted AFK BOTs that cost them no time at all, and neither any money, being EJ accounts.

    Yet, their targets being raided and disrupted in their gameplay, in most instances, are paying customers who actually bring revenues to Ultima Online....

    This is what is dead wrong and should be addressed, to my opinion, not the ability for Raiders in Felucca ruleset areas to ACTIVELY look for targets while being at the keyboard and moving around their character off their actual playing time.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,538
    edited November 2020
    popps said:
    Cookie said:

    Going to add an Edit. When I read your posts, so much of your mentality is like so many other Trammel players, who want to go to Felucca and conquer it solo, and get all the gains and rewards solo. This was never what it was about. Felucca is about teamplay, it's the main game. You don't have to have Tracking, you can be the Tamer for their pvm, you can fit into whatever role you want to fit into, crafter, scout, pvper, whatever, but you cannot expect to do it all on your own.

    I will answer to this part, because I think it as relevant to the discussion.

    I would have zero issues if the accounts being used to set up Hidden Characters were from subscribed and paying accounts AND actually manned by a live player, not scripted AFK....

    I have tons of issues about FREE EJ accounts being used AFK and scripted.

    Players who actually pay and bring revenues to Ultima Online get disrupted in their gameplay by FREE and AFK scripted characters who bring no revenues to Ultima Online from subscriptions.

    This is DEAD WRONG, as I said, and totally unbalanced.

    Raiders have all rights in the World to go check, in Felucca ruleset areas, for targets to hunt but, only to my opinion, if they do it with their paying, subscribed accounts in case of Hidden Cams, AND actually being at the keyboard when roaming the Land in search for their targets whether using a subscribed account or an EJ one, thus using their in-game time, and not scripted AFK BOTs that cost them no time at all, and neither any money, being EJ accounts.

    Yet, their targets being raided and disrupted in their gameplay, in most instances, are paying customers who actually bring revenues to Ultima Online....

    This is what is dead wrong and should be addressed, to my opinion, not the ability for Raiders in Felucca ruleset areas to ACTIVELY look for targets while being at the keyboard and moving around their character off their actual playing time.


    I don't really disagree with this.

    What I am trying to say, as a guild who does all this, see's how it all works, and what our opposition are doing {over 2-3 shards}, I can tell you, we actively scout ourselves when we are online with paid accounts, and that's what we see everyone else doing.

    The reasoning being, as I mentioned in my first post, is everything else is just too much physical effort, for too little reward. In general, the counter measures employed by other Feluccan guilds, have stopped and prevented most of this behaviour. As I also said above, you have to be completely dominant to pull this off, otherwise, other guilds neutralise you. No-one is completely dominant to do this. We ourselves are not dominant enough to do this, but we are strong enough to counter those doing it to make it pointless.

    Edit - I'm going to add another reason it doesn't happen anymore. It is because even if you do go to this effort these days, you cannot lock the market down 100%. Players will off-shard and farm where you cannot reach them. No-one can cover every shard. In the old days, before Cross Sharding, it was worth going to this effort, because you could lock a shard down. Now you cannot, so it is not worth going to all this effort to lock it down, when you will leak scrolls in other places. This is actually an argument against Shard Bound Powerscrolls. If Powerscrolls were to be made Shard-Bound, it would again become worth it, for the local badboys to lock a shard down with Ghost Cams and EJ Cams. They could retake control of the market.

    So what I am trying to say, in the live Ultima Online, as it stands now, your issue is a completely moot point, because it does not really happen currently. (Maybe there is an Atlantic guild or so going to this effort, I cannot be sure, but in general, the impact of this is minimal).

  • TanagerTanager Posts: 634
    edited November 2020
    I didn't read thru all of this, so if I am repeating something already said then just add my opinion as agreement. EJ cannot speak on this forum, so I feel compelled to speak on their behalf.

    Ultima Online absolutely must have some form of free trial system. Many MMOs don't allow players in the trial phase to speak in public channels, but those MMOs are noob-friendly and can also afford to lose people because they gain more than they lose. UO is NOT noob-friendly. New players rarely stick around for long, and a new player that cannot speak to the general population is essentially crippled and even less likely to subscribe. Not having a trial period system of any kind for UO would do more harm than good to the game.

    The argument against EJ because they are sometimes used as ghost cams is flawed. Before EJ, these people abused the 2 week free trial system for the same purpose.

    The argument against EJ being allowed to use general chat because of a handful of RMT spammers is flawed. People did this with the free trial system before EJ. A spam every 15 minutes or so is mildly irritating, but it does not justify silencing ALL players using the free trial.

    The argument that people who are trying Ultima Online for free are worthless and contribute nothing now or potentially in the future is flawed. If nothing else, they provide additional people to play the game and interact with. But, some (many) of these people upgrade their accounts, buy things from the online store (or pay in-game gold to players to buy them), and, in many cases, eventually end up subscribing. That is, if they can get past the holier than thou Haves discriminating against the Have Nots.

    There are and have always been down sides to having a free trial system. However, the benefit of such far outweigh the cons for UO.
  • Once again Popps pipes up and sabotages a thread. I asm NOT talking about ghost games, create your own thread for that!

    I am talking about free accts abusing gen chat to spam their crappy illegal gold sites.  It's a no brainer that this should be stopped and the gold seller swill have to think of another way. As long as it does NOT interfere with my game play. No matter how many time is add these idiots to the filter they pop up with more. @Mesanna do the easy thing and stop EJ accts form accessing Gen chat.
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,926
    Once again Popps pipes up and sabotages a thread. I asm NOT talking about ghost games, create your own thread for that!

    I am talking about free accts abusing gen chat to spam their crappy illegal gold sites.  It's a no brainer that this should be stopped and the gold seller swill have to think of another way. As long as it does NOT interfere with my game play. No matter how many time is add these idiots to the filter they pop up with more. @ Mesanna do the easy thing and stop EJ accts form accessing Gen chat.
    I have seen the same guy spam selling even before EJ started, as early as 2015. I think the same guy is still doing it, but I don’t think that occasional flash msg affects my gameplay. As mentioned, I am more frustrated with the EC bugs as it directly affects.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • Seth said:
    Once again Popps pipes up and sabotages a thread. I asm NOT talking about ghost games, create your own thread for that!

    I am talking about free accts abusing gen chat to spam their crappy illegal gold sites.  It's a no brainer that this should be stopped and the gold seller swill have to think of another way. As long as it does NOT interfere with my game play. No matter how many time is add these idiots to the filter they pop up with more. @ Mesanna do the easy thing and stop EJ accts form accessing Gen chat.
    I have seen the same guy spam selling even before EJ started, as early as 2015. I think the same guy is still doing it, but I don’t think that occasional flash msg affects my gameplay. As mentioned, I am more frustrated with the EC bugs as it directly affects.
    on Atl we have 2 spam sellers, and if no action is taken to ban them from using EJ accts and Gen chat then more will start up.

    I also play EC and there are things I want to have fixed. But this post is only requesting action be taken against EJ spammers......
  • I like the idea of the option to not see EJ players in chat. Chat filter probably the easiest solution. 

    Restricting EJ accounts back to the help channel would also work. 
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