Insta autostable exploits/bugs (separate thread made due to volume of issues)

MervynMervyn Posts: 2,200
edited September 24 in Bugs
Pet autostable introduced to prevent players from losing pets. Requires the following minor adjustments due to following exploits being abused (at 0 increased risk of loss of bonded pet):

A ) for the pet to be autostabled at the same time the character logs out (meaning unless you log out in a friended house, inn, the character remains in game for 5 mins, as should the pet before being autostabled)

B ) for the pet to be retrieved from the stables upon log in (this is currently the case anyway if you log out when dead, however if you get resurrected and log out/in a second time, the pet actually appears next to you again which it shouldn't)

C ) for the current autostable system to not apply to non bonded pets


Exploits/bugs:


1. many players exploit the system to simply log out to prevent their pet from dying (normally when they themselves have died, especially players without the veterinary skill) Veterinary skill has had the ability to ressurect pets at 80 skill ever since bonded pets were introduced, if pets or mounts were not supposed to die, they would not have hit points or be attackable, and would not be made ressurectable. By allowing players to do this, it is discouraging team play, EG Sampires have no reason to invite a veterinarian with them to kill bosses or pvpers have no reason to invite veterinarians with them to champ spawns. resolved with adjustment A )


2. Players are able to summon their pets to locations where pet summoning is not allowed. When the crystal balls of summoning were introduced, the developers carefully planned which areas summoning of pets would be allowed, and not. Areas where pet summoning are not allowed include active champion spawns, ilshenar, Eodan, all ML dungeons, and the Great Stygian Abyss. The pet summoning is bypassed by simply claiming the pet from the stables and leaving it at that or any location. Travelling to the prohibited summoning area and logging out and in. In the case of shadowguard - the Belfry, the challenge is to ring the bell, kill the drakes, collect the winged feather to get you onto the platform. The dragon at the top of the platform will occassionally push the attacker off the platform, and you must ring the bell and kill more drakes to go back up. However tamers again can bypass this mechanic, when their pet is pushed off the platform, the character will simply remain on the platform, log off and on and the pet is up with them on the platform again.  resolved with adjustment B )

3.Players are able to use their pets when they are dead without any recourse to themselves, Example, if I command my pet to kill players/mobs, and those players/mobs kills me fair and square, my pet will remain attacking the players/mobs who killed me, however if the player/mob tries to defend themselves against my pet, i can simply allow my pet to continue to deal damage the players/mobs until my pet is very low hit points then just log out. Effectively making my pet invincible. With pets now having around 75-80 in all resist and around 700hp and continuing to hit area spells in an enclosed area such as an idoc or the despise island, and dealing such high damage, this is a serious issue. The exploiter can then simply travel to a nearby safe location, ressurrect themselves and log out and in to retrieve their pet, bypassing the requirement to have the veterinary skill or an elixir of rebirth to res the pet resolved with adjustment A )


4. When pet summoning balls were introduced, they went through extensive PvP tweaking and testing after feedback from PvPers. The end result was when summoning a pet with a pet ball, it takes a few seconds and the process is interruptible even under the protection spell. You receive a cliloc that reads "You have been disrupted while attempting to summon your pet!" So you can prevent someone from summoning a pet in pvp, however you cannot interrupt someone logging out/in to summon their pet. resolved with adjustment A ) or B )


5. Again as part of the extensive summoning balls testing, an end result was that while you're hidden/stealthed, if you attempt to summon a pet using a pet ball of summoning, your character reveals, however players can again by-pass this mechanic by simply logging out and in to summon their pet to their location and remain hidden. resolved with adjustment B )


6. The developers and testers went through great effort to design the crytal ball of summoning and the quests to obtain them and the powder of translocation that charges them, and the number of refills each pet ball of summoning can hold, right down to the weight of 10 stones for the cystal being carefully considered. However players again can by-pass the requirement to use these charges by simply logging out and in in order to move their pet from any location. resolved with adjustment A ) or B )


7. If you lose connection/crash, your character will continue to defend in game by swinging the weapon/parrying, a tamer's weapon is his pet, during power outages it's very annoying to log in dead because the pet did not continue to defend as it was instantly autologged out on disconnect. If the pet continued to guard the player until the player fully logged out, this would help. (If a player managed to regain power/connection within the 5 minute window, the player would then not have to reclaim the pet from the stables on login and also would be less likely to log back in dead). Also if you have summons or magically controlled creatures by dryad allure or command undead, the insta autostable may be making the summons disappear on logout/conloss/crash, - this can be quite irritating if you've travelled a long distance to control a creature.   resolved with adjustment A )


8. Only bonded pets are supposed to travel with a tamer if they recall/sacred journey, to transport non bonded pets you must gate travel. In many areas such as Eodan and Ilshenar, gate travel is not permitted, so part of the game challenge is supposed to be to tame a creature and transport it from its current wild location to the safety of the stables (or use an instant bonding potion that players purchase from the origin store). However again players can use the autostable system to bypass this, by simply taming a creature, recalling to a stable, logging out and in and the pet is with you at a stable. resolved with adjustment C )


As a general comment, logging out of the game and back in should not be a legitimate tactic to deploy in a game.














I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

Breaking in the young since 2002


Comments

  • Dude is that your thesis or something?

    I dont find any of all of this gamebreaking. None of this benefit to the point of breaking mechanics or breaking the game, its just a safe prevention to not loose any pets if you loose connection or something
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,126
    SO will the OP personally replace every pet that is lost when the old bug of losing pets due to lose conn rears its ugly head and bites us in the ass again.  That bug was never fixed so the auto log-out was put in to keep us from losing pets and with the new pet training we stand to lose a lot more.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,200
    edited September 24
    no loss of bonded pet with these minor adjustments - only fixes for exploits. 
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • JepethJepeth Posts: 108
    And you know for a fact that the pet loss bug will wait more than five minutes for a character to be logged out/pets returned to the stable first?

    People still lose pets now, even without getting disconnected or logging out.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,200
    edited September 24
    yes, just adding a 5 min timer if not logging out in inn/house before autostable - same as character, no loss of pet.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,126
    An assumption being stated as a fact
  • jelinidasjelinidas Posts: 257
    Please DO NOT mess with pets. I have not lost a scrolled pet in a long time, lets not start playing with code that does not need "fixing".
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,200
    edited September 24
    no loss of pets, pets still to be autostabled after 5 mins.

    I stated on first paragraph "(0 increased risk of loss of bonded pet)" please read before posting

    only interested in bug and exploit fixing with minor adjustments, not interested in any core changes.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • jelinidasjelinidas Posts: 257
    When you mess with old code and a team of two, many bad things can and will happen. Please DO NOT mess with pets.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,200
    I have every faith in the developers technical ability to insert a 300 second timer.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • JepethJepeth Posts: 108
    You're ignoring the fact the insta-stabling was put in to resolve random pet loss from bugs. Has this been solved in such a way that inserting a 300 second timer won't cause people to lose the pets they've poured millions of gold and hours in to?
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,126
    And again stating opinion as fact proves nothing.  Tamers were losing pets and UO could not figure out why so they fixed it with the insta-log and for some reason you think the devs didn't think about a delay like you are proposing, oh that is right you are always right and know for a FACT that they didn't consider it and that putting in a delay will have ZERO effect.  I am just so overwhelmed with what UO can and can not do that maybe you should apply to UO for work to prove to them just how much you do knot know.  Stop stating YOUR OPINION as FACT. 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 3,014
    edited September 25
    When I am in a dungeon and my pet wanders away while I am running from something, I can not find my pet.  The pet ball does not work in many places.  Now if I do disconnect or log off, I am out of sight of my pet.  My pet loses loses loyalty and goes wild.  

    I cant retrieve my pet or find it, so I lose a pet that could cost 500M to 1 Plat to replace.

    Mervyn does not play a tamer or he would see how pets get lost often if you play UO in a way other than killing tamers at a spawn.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,200
    edited September 25
    I do play a tamer. 

    so..you’re in I’ll assume an ML dungeon in this scenario..
    nothing stopping you from travelling to a location where you can use your pet ball of summoning. 

    And a pet should not go wild after just 300 seconds.

    Even adding a 60 second timer would still solve all issues, 300 seconds is just preferred as that is how long your character remains in game for after a disconnect if not in a safe location.

    But to be honest I’m not really understanding why your all follow me macro isn’t working in this scenario for you to “lose” it in the dungeon in the first place. I can maybe imagine a scenario where your pet attacks something and goes off in a different direction to you. But I’m struggling a little to imagine not being able to find it? Like how far have you ran, how complex is this dungeon? I don’t know of such a labyrinth of a dungeon.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • TimTim Posts: 607
    Mervyn said:
    I do play a tamer. 

    so..you’re in I’ll assume an ML dungeon in this scenario..
    nothing stopping you from travelling to a location where you can use your pet ball of summoning. 

    And a pet should not go wild after just 300 seconds.

    Even adding a 60 second timer would still solve all issues, 300 seconds is just preferred as that is how long your character remains in game for after a disconnect if not in a safe location.

    But to be honest I’m not really understanding why your all follow me macro isn’t working in this scenario for you to “lose” it in the dungeon in the first place. I can maybe imagine a scenario where your pet attacks something and goes off in a different direction to you. But I’m struggling a little to imagine not being able to find it? Like how far have you ran, how complex is this dungeon? I don’t know of such a labyrinth of a dungeon.
    Because the Pet AI is crap and needs a full rewrite. A 2X120 tamer still can't get pet to obey in all too many circumstances. I spent most of the invasion "screaming" at my pet not him kill the other one. The present set up is the best available workaround. I don't know of anyone who has a problem with the present compromise other than you.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 3,014
    @Tim ; you meant to say:  I don't know of anyone who has a problem with the present game mechanics  other than you.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,200
    edited September 25
    everyone i play with agrees with me, and i play with a lot of people in discord.
    This is why i am posting it.

    I'm not posting it for fun.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • PawainPawain Posts: 3,014
    edited September 26
    Mervyn said:
    everyone i play with agrees with me, and i play with a lot of people in discord.
    This is why i am posting it.

    I'm not posting it for fun.
    Teach them how to kill players and not have to kill their pets or mounts? Get better as you claim to be
    When it’s not going to affect you and it’s not for you, it’s for new (better)people.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,126
    Mervyn said:
    everyone i play with agrees with me, and i play with a lot of people in discord.
    This is why i am posting it.

    I'm not posting it for fun.
    Really then how come they are not on here supporting you on this.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,200
    They’re not forum people. 
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • TimTim Posts: 607
    Mervyn said:
    They’re not forum people. 
    but are  

    on second thought I don't need another letter about form rules
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,126
    Tim said:
    Mervyn said:
    They’re not forum people. 
    but are  

    on second thought I don't need another letter about form rules
    TY Tim LMAO
  • PawainPawain Posts: 3,014
    edited September 29
    @bleak @Misk @Kyronix @Mervyn

    The Queen has spoken.  Please end these posts about pet log out.

    Meet and Greet 9/28/2020 Great Lakes:

    Watcher: one big vote for not to remove the login to retrieve pets fix
    Watcher: last week was at EM event with monsters that shove you away from them
    Mesanna: we are not touching that
    Watcher: pet was shoved into an inaccessible wall area at gargoyle shrine
    Watcher: only way was to log in and out to retrieve the pet
    Watcher: in ilshenar
    Watcher: so thats for leaving that in!
    Mesanna: we are not changing login for pets
    Watcher: awesome
    Watcher: much appreciated
    Mesanna: no problem
    Watcher: have a great evening

    @Mariah @Rorschach

    Can you please remove future posts and give appropriate warnings/bans to posters who troll and repeat this topic.

    Thanks

  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,200
    I agree with Mesanna, not removing log out for pet, (only adding a 5 min timer). Remember you can still log out to auto stable your pet.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,126
    Pawain said:
    @ bleak @ Misk @ Kyronix @ Mervyn

    The Queen has spoken.  Please end these posts about pet log out.

    Meet and Greet 9/28/2020 Great Lakes:

    Watcher: one big vote for not to remove the login to retrieve pets fix
    Watcher: last week was at EM event with monsters that shove you away from them
    Mesanna: we are not touching that
    Watcher: pet was shoved into an inaccessible wall area at gargoyle shrine
    Watcher: only way was to log in and out to retrieve the pet
    Watcher: in ilshenar
    Watcher: so thats for leaving that in!
    Mesanna: we are not changing login for pets
    Watcher: awesome
    Watcher: much appreciated
    Mesanna: no problem
    Watcher: have a great evening

    @ Mariah @ Rorschach

    Can you please remove future posts and give appropriate warnings/bans to posters who troll and repeat this topic.

    Thanks

    Love it  TY Dark Lady and I totally agree with @Pawain about further posts as the darklady has spoken.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,200
    edited September 29
    I also vote not to remove log/in to retrieve pets, it's only timer that needs to be added. 
    I 100% agree with Mesanna. Everyone is in agreement here, thank you. 

    This comment at the Q & A has no relevance to this thread. 
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • MariahMariah Posts: 1,264Moderator
    I believe Mesanna said they were not changing the current auto stable. Perhaps you should take your contraversial suggestion to email?
This discussion has been closed.