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PLEASE Devs & Mesanna, Make IDOCs SStones ***NOT*** Clean-Up-Points worthy or BBox Them!!!

IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
edited January 2020 in General Discussions
---
I posted this yesterday in the IDOC Thread, but I wish to open a Discussion on the Topic too.

I find totally inappropriate that SStones recovered in IDOCs have a so high CUB Points value.

SStones are DAYS of playtime worth for Players, and having the pratical certainty that the ones that comes from IDOCs will be instantly trashed by the... "Usual Subjects" is, IMO, very sad and unrespectful of Players.

Making them to have a 0 CUB Points value, AND/OR putting them automatically in the Player's BankBox if his House goes IDOC would be, IMO, a strong incentive for returning Players!
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Comments

  • Garth_GreyGarth_Grey Posts: 1,459
    Soulstones are Blessed, they should not be acceptable into a trash can of any type.
    You and Several Others like this.


    Please make the Grizzled Mare a 5 slot mount, it's incredibly rare and deserves it. Some of us have been waiting a long time for this simple addition.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    edited January 2020
    Soulstones are Blessed, they should not be acceptable into a trash can of any type.

    Agreed!!! :)

    Do you see that sometimes whe can be of the same opinion? :D ;)
  • MordredMordred Posts: 102
    Been suggested many times.
    Since @Mesanna said we will discuss the matter before goes live, how about she listen what everyone is suggesting and make everything from the house goes into a moving crate and than to account owners bank and later after the person subscribe again, he can recoup his items for a fee. But so far, we had over 10 previous topic open and they were all closed and not a single one the devs came to say something.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,881
    Mordred said: by
    Been suggested many times.
    Since @ Mesanna said we will discuss the matter before goes live, how about she listen what everyone is suggesting and make everything from the house goes into a moving crate and than to account owners bank and later after the person subscribe again, he can recoup his items for a fee. But so far, we had over 10 previous topic open and they were all closed and not a single one the devs came to say something.
    Many do not agree with this.
    Put stuff in the bank. You have 90 days to decide to return.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    edited January 2020
    Pawain said:
    Mordred said: by
    Been suggested many times.
    Since @ Mesanna said we will discuss the matter before goes live, how about she listen what everyone is suggesting and make everything from the house goes into a moving crate and than to account owners bank and later after the person subscribe again, he can recoup his items for a fee. But so far, we had over 10 previous topic open and they were all closed and not a single one the devs came to say something.
    Many do not agree with this.
    Put stuff in the bank. You have 90 days to decide to return.

    Franky I don't understand why someone with a minimum of human decency should object to have at least the SStones untrashable and/or automatically & forever "banked" if they are caught in an IDOC... :#
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,274
    Mordred said:
    But so far, we had over 10 previous topic open and they were all closed and not a single one the devs came to say something.
    Just because they're not speaking doesn't mean they're not seeing it. 
  • MordredMordred Posts: 102
    According to the newsletter we will all discuss about , before made live for the entire UO, to have a discussing about something all parts need to be involved and talk about the upcoming solution,  that mean the Devs must be involved. Or am i wrong?


    dis·cuss

    1. talk about (something) with another person or group of people.
      "I discussed the matter with my wife"
      Similar:
      talk over
      talk about
      talk through
      converse about
      debate
      confer about
      put your heads together about
      deliberate about
      chew over
      consider
      exchange views on/about
      weigh up
      consider the pros and cons of
      thrash out
      argue
      dispute
      moot
      air
      ventilate
      canvass
      kick around/about
      bat around/about
      • talk or write about (a topic) in detail, taking into account different ideas and opinions.
        "in Chapter Six I discuss problems that arise in applying Darwin's ideas"






  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,881
    edited January 2020
    @Mordred Your method of discussion was stating that everybody wants to let the items go to the bank.

    You can have that discussion in private.  Cause it is not one. It is just your opinion.

    I never said Soulstones should have cleanup points.  I think that is dumb.

    The only play style I am against is non consensual PvP. I may not like some play styles but I am for, Players having FUN.  I find standing at an IDOC is boring.  Sometimes I am sitting at the Bank while we are talking about the IDOC in chat.  Sitting at IDOC <Less fun Banksitting >more fun.  We have the ability to to many things in UO.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    edited January 2020
    Pawain said:
    (...)
    We have the ability to to many things in UO.
    That it is way it is called a SandBox game. The problem is that both Worlds, UO and the "Real" one, are full of... "people" that like to use it as a LitterBox... :D

  • Stinky_PeteStinky_Pete Posts: 66
    I dunno, the soulstone I throw away today is a skill you can't use to kill me tomorrow. It is not my prerogative to care about you or your stuff. You are all way too committed to your stuff anyway. Losing a soulstone just gives you a reason to play for a few more days. 
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    edited January 2020
    I dunno, the soulstone I throw away today is a skill you can't use to kill me tomorrow. It is not my prerogative to care about you or your stuff. You are all way too committed to your stuff anyway. Losing a soulstone just gives you a reason to play for a few more days. 

    Your opinion, and you have the right to have it and to express it.

    Mine is that this PoV is a callous and arid one, that shows no empathy and a total disrespect for the time of other people.

    Do you work as a CEO or as a HR Manager perchance? :D

    BTW: Please explain how a SStone with, e.g., a Crafting Skill can be used to kill you.
    BTW2: Not all Players are brain-dead Fel-Fiends that play UO only to flood GenChat with the last "glorious" spam about who Powned who, do you know that, right? :)
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,881
    o:)  
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • Stinky_PeteStinky_Pete Posts: 66
    Ivenor said:

    Your opinion, and you have the right to have it and to express it.

    Mine is that this PoV is a callous and arid one, that shows no empathy and a total disrespect for the time of other people.

    Do you work as a CEO or as a HR Manager perchance? :D

    BTW: Please explain how a SStone with, e.g., a Crafting Skill can be used to kill you.
    BTW2: Not all Players are brain-dead Fel-Fiends that play UO only to flood GenChat with the last "glorious" spam about who Powned who, do you know that, right? :)
    I play a video game character. He's not a nice guy. He doesn't care about your time. A good game must have contention for you to feel accomplished and worthwhile. My goal is to help provide that.

    What I do IRL is none of your business.
  • monkgamermonkgamer Posts: 100
    edited February 2020
    I almost got wrapped in the dumb arguement about evil character,s as if evil characters have to transcend themselves and be evil to the player as well. Instead ill ask..what is one supposed to do with a soulstone? Keep it forever? Why not throw it away, it can't be used can it?
















  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    Ivenor said:

    Your opinion, and you have the right to have it and to express it.

    Mine is that this PoV is a callous and arid one, that shows no empathy and a total disrespect for the time of other people.

    Do you work as a CEO or as a HR Manager perchance? :D

    BTW: Please explain how a SStone with, e.g., a Crafting Skill can be used to kill you.
    BTW2: Not all Players are brain-dead Fel-Fiends that play UO only to flood GenChat with the last "glorious" spam about who Powned who, do you know that, right? :)
    I play a video game character. He's not a nice guy. He doesn't care about your time. A good game must have contention for you to feel accomplished and worthwhile. My goal is to help provide that.

    What I do IRL is none of your business.

    Sure, none of my businnes, you are right on this. We could discuss about the psycho(logy) of playing a "not a nice guy. He doesn't care about your time" and taking (as it seems to me) pride in doing so, but it would be wasted time I suppose, so have a nice SStons trashing party... B)
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    edited February 2020
    monkgamer said:
    I almost got wrapped in the dumb arguement about evil character,s as if evil characters have to transcend themselves and be evil to the player as well. Instead ill ask..what is one supposed to do with a soulstone? Keep it forever? Why not throw it away, it can't be used can it?

    On many Shards there are SoulStones Graveyards, managed by the Shard EM (on ATL, e.g., it is on Malas, near the Rewards Hall, with hundreds of Stones on display), or by some Player, where the SStones are stored in waiting for their legitimate owner, in case he Return.

    I recently opened one myself on Europa, near the East Gate of Umbra, where I have SStones from Drak & Eur Shards: https://community.stratics.com/threads/a-new-soulstones-garden-on-europa-the-palace-of-the-found-souls.409305/


  • monkgamermonkgamer Posts: 100
    That's actually pretty awesome. A shame "evil" characters have to think their evil character has to be evil to a real human
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    monkgamer said:
    That's actually pretty awesome. A shame "evil" characters have to think their evil character has to be evil to a real human

    Behind every Toon (botnets beside...) there is a real human, so...
  • monkgamermonkgamer Posts: 100
    Ivenor said:
    monkgamer said:
    That's actually pretty awesome. A shame "evil" characters have to think their evil character has to be evil to a real human

    Behind every Toon (botnets beside...) there is a real human, so...
    I agree. Its one thing being evil and playing a character to other characters, its a whole different story to allow that evil character to be evil to the human behind the character. You can be evil and the bad guy and still be nice to the player themselves.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    edited February 2020
    monkgamer said:
    Ivenor said:
    monkgamer said:
    That's actually pretty awesome. A shame "evil" characters have to think their evil character has to be evil to a real human

    Behind every Toon (botnets beside...) there is a real human, so...
    I agree. Its one thing being evil and playing a character to other characters, its a whole different story to allow that evil character to be evil to the human behind the character. You can be evil and the bad guy and still be nice to the player themselves.

    And saying something like "I don't care if you lose the days of your life that you put in training a Skill that you saved on the SStone that now I will trash, and that because MAYBE a day you could use the Skill to kill my Toon (with what: a Tailor's Scissors o a Carpenter's Saw??? :D)" is, IMO, at least just a little "un-nice", to use an understatement... :)
  • Stinky_PeteStinky_Pete Posts: 66
    monkgamer said:

    I agree. Its one thing being evil and playing a character to other characters, its a whole different story to allow that evil character to be evil to the human behind the character. You can be evil and the bad guy and still be nice to the player themselves.
    I don't really understand the difference. If I do something not nice to your character in game it's going to affect the person behind the character. I would like to see an example where I am wrong.

    Some days you win, some days you lose. If you come across me and make yourself an easy victim, you're gonna have a bad time. It's my playstyle, I like it, it should make the game more exciting for you.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    Stinky_Pete said:
    monkgamer said:

    I agree. Its one thing being evil and playing a character to other characters, its a whole different story to allow that evil character to be evil to the human behind the character. You can be evil and the bad guy and still be nice to the player themselves.
    (...)

    Some days you win, some days you lose. If you come across me and make yourself an easy victim, you're gonna have a bad time. It's my playstyle, I like it, it should make the game more exciting for you.

    On this part I could agree (even if is a little in the "blame the victim" category, IMO), at least until you respect my right to NOT having you making my game more "exciting" if and when I don't want it to...
  • PolarisPolaris Posts: 106
    People act so "tough" because they are on the reds and yell in gen chat all day.

    The majority of pvp'ers and IDOCers who "thieve" (aka vacuum up items/resell/fence items for so called others) or do fel spawns are not doing so to be a red character. They are doing so because they know they can win and it is lucrative for them... both in game and potentially elsewhere (which is why players complain.) The game is full of reds who use autocure pot, autoheal pot at 20%, tree stump hack, speed hack, and whatever else they can get their hands on, including multi-boxing at fel IDOCs and events both. Thieving has not truly been around in UO since item insurance became a thing, except in very rare fel stealing events. Thieving is not thieving any more.

    Do you guys not think that some other people might want to play an "evil" character too, were the odds not skewed? Right after the launch of Samurai Empire... I too pvp'ed when I was in high school. I would fight around Britain guard zone like a noob... because I was only 13 and trying to compete against the vets. Back then, the number of people who cheated was very low, like maybe 1-5%. The people who did not have mostly all left because of various reasons, most notably, cheating.

    Most of the "evil" players that are left have no interest in role playing or being evil. It is simply an excuse to say they cheat. Fencing items for IDOCers, showing up at the very end of spawns for WoD, auto-placing houses, and using bots do not make players any more "evil" in game than anyone else. The majority of "blue" players are labelled blue because they are actively combating the scripting and cheating it seems.

    One notorious IDOCer laughed at me and tagged me "Nooooble Polaris" one time, referencing me as a blue. I find that hilarious...... I am blue because, if I went to fel to play, I would get my butt handed to me by someone who was using tons of scripts. They claim so in chat also when talking trash to each other... accusing each of using the cheats. I don't use Any cheats. That's why I don't go to fel. It's full of cheaters from what I have saw and heard. You can see countless videos of people destroying each other... and miraculously there are no trees around, just stumps... they are running twice the speed as others, ect... ect...

    Being "evil" in game means nothing anymore in the sense of role playing. It does mean that they seem to be "richer" than other characters however. I see no reason why Soulstones, being account bound items, should not be stored in the bank when houses fall at least. But either way... as long as they fix IDOCs where we once again have a shot at something, I will be happy. I like Uber rares as well... I'm not stepping foot in fel, I can play the game better than almost anyone and can easily make 500m a week should I so choose. I can solo Shadowguard alone on my Sampire, and my wife could solo Blackthorn's all day before the new change. She could do 3 towers in a day by herself before getting bored. It's not that we cannot pvp, it is that we refuse to cheat. I will stay out of fel and be "blue" if that is what someone wants to label me for not cheating.
  • PolarisPolaris Posts: 106
    Ivenor said:
    Making them to have a 0 CUB Points value......
    I would rather see them bank boxed if anything (if possible.) Most of those players simply trash things anyway, they won't waste the time to donate them or anything of the sort. Back when I used to try to do IDOCs, about 3 or 4 years ago... after a Luna IDOC on Izumo, I watched an American IDOCer taunt a few Japanese players who were offering 5-10m for each of their friend's soul stones.

    The IDOCer told them "20m each"...... and the Japanese players complained they were worthless to him, why was he so greedy??? He started laughing at them and I watched as he tossed them 1 by 1 in the dumpster at Luna in front of them over the course of 5 minutes, taunting them... laughing at them because they were "dumb" in his words. People wonder why people leave the game...
  • Stinky_PeteStinky_Pete Posts: 66
    Polaris said:
    People act so "tough" because they are on the reds and yell in gen chat all day.

    The majority of pvp'ers and IDOCers who "thieve" (aka vacuum up items/resell/fence items for so called others) or do fel spawns are not doing so to be a red character. They are doing so because they know they can win and it is lucrative for them... both in game and potentially elsewhere (which is why players complain.) The game is full of reds who use autocure pot, autoheal pot at 20%, tree stump hack, speed hack, and whatever else they can get their hands on, including multi-boxing at fel IDOCs and events both. Thieving has not truly been around in UO since item insurance became a thing, except in very rare fel stealing events. Thieving is not thieving any more.

    Do you guys not think that some other people might want to play an "evil" character too, were the odds not skewed? Right after the launch of Samurai Empire... I too pvp'ed when I was in high school. I would fight around Britain guard zone like a noob... because I was only 13 and trying to compete against the vets. Back then, the number of people who cheated was very low, like maybe 1-5%. The people who did not have mostly all left because of various reasons, most notably, cheating.

    Most of the "evil" players that are left have no interest in role playing or being evil. It is simply an excuse to say they cheat. Fencing items for IDOCers, showing up at the very end of spawns for WoD, auto-placing houses, and using bots do not make players any more "evil" in game than anyone else. The majority of "blue" players are labelled blue because they are actively combating the scripting and cheating it seems.

    One notorious IDOCer laughed at me and tagged me "Nooooble Polaris" one time, referencing me as a blue. I find that hilarious...... I am blue because, if I went to fel to play, I would get my butt handed to me by someone who was using tons of scripts. They claim so in chat also when talking trash to each other... accusing each of using the cheats. I don't use Any cheats. That's why I don't go to fel. It's full of cheaters from what I have saw and heard. You can see countless videos of people destroying each other... and miraculously there are no trees around, just stumps... they are running twice the speed as others, ect... ect...

    Being "evil" in game means nothing anymore in the sense of role playing. It does mean that they seem to be "richer" than other characters however. I see no reason why Soulstones, being account bound items, should not be stored in the bank when houses fall at least. But either way... as long as they fix IDOCs where we once again have a shot at something, I will be happy. I like Uber rares as well... I'm not stepping foot in fel, I can play the game better than almost anyone and can easily make 500m a week should I so choose. I can solo Shadowguard alone on my Sampire, and my wife could solo Blackthorn's all day before the new change. She could do 3 towers in a day by herself before getting bored. It's not that we cannot pvp, it is that we refuse to cheat. I will stay out of fel and be "blue" if that is what someone wants to label me for not cheating.

    Lol. You don't know anything about me and what I do. You sure do make a lot of assumptions though.
  • Lord_Obsidian_KnightLord_Obsidian_Knight Posts: 11
    I think the idea of the items going to a moving crate or bank box is a bad idea.  What happens if a player never returns? Those items are lost forever.  Some items are rare and not replaceable.  90 days is sufficient time for people to fix their accounts.  Also idocing is a source of money for a lot of players and a game play style.  Some people spawn, craft, pvm etc and others idoc.  I don't think you should remove a style of play from the game. I do think that the decay system needs addressed.  I think that the timers need shortened.  Either do a 7-8 hour window or do a 3hr & 6hr or 4hr & 8hr.  Possible 15 hours is too long for people to wait and only benefits scripters because most players can't wait around that long.  The house placing timers needs to be shortened as well. With both decay and placing you could be at a house for a total of 17 hours which is pretty unreasonable.   I think the timers are the biggest problems with the decay system and house placing.  Limit the number of packies in the house area and no EJ accounts.  I know that not everyone will be happy but you can't just take all the items away.  I vote for keeping soulstone's for the players if they return.  @Mesanna @Kyronix .  Thank you for your time.
  • PolarisPolaris Posts: 106
    edited February 2020
    Limit the number of packies in the house area and no EJ accounts.
    I have yet to understand why anyone ever says this.... the bots are in llama form and run and loot certain items. They target things like deeds (anything of value,) mempo's, tinker legs.... they auto open all chests and loot them before anyone sees them. I take 1 beetle and 4 pack horses with me if I ever go to an IDOC. I am lucky if 2 of those get items in them.... but sometimes I get lucky and get chests in all of them.

    The bots will pick up 1 chest with their characters and be full if it's the wrong chest...  hence, they do not do that. You can tell for sure, because the players there controlling their bots at huge IDOCs will actually axe the chests so that their bots can scavenge the ground as well.

    I was doing IDOCs before the "crews" took off. Back then, there were 2 main IDOC groups working in groups of 2. They simply gated in 50 (youngs) and stood beside every single item because the houses were public. Those same 2 groups (4 players) come in White Tiger or Llama form still. They never, ever use pack horses. As far as I could ever tell, it is real players using pack horses for the most part. I really do not know however, I am sure they can script anything. Hence my suggestions on page 3 in the other thread. Have all IDOCs on a shard fall at the exact same time.... give a pop up gump to indicate to every paying player that the timer has started (should be random, could happen at any hour of the day.) After the grump appears, players can pick maps to each... it will fall in less than 10 minutes each (even if there are 30 in a day, each falls in 10 minutes from time of the gump appearing.) Block EJ accounts from getting the maps.... only paying players can go, nobody has time to log in bots, nobody has time to "station" at all the houses.... players and everyone will be running around and panicking to check them all before they fall. Some players will get tiny ones all to themselves, as most people will stay at any larger ones they see first. They must fall within 10 minutes though, so as nobody will have time to gate in EJ accounts. Of course they will still try.... that cannot be stopped I assume. This will however, greatly impact them and stop a majority of their efforts. Plus they will have all players in the game to compete with..... anyone not busy at the moment.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    Polaris said:
    Ivenor said:
    Making them to have a 0 CUB Points value......
    I would rather see them bank boxed if anything (if possible.) Most of those players simply trash things anyway, they won't waste the time to donate them or anything of the sort. Back when I used to try to do IDOCs, about 3 or 4 years ago... after a Luna IDOC on Izumo, I watched an American IDOCer taunt a few Japanese players who were offering 5-10m for each of their friend's soul stones.

    The IDOCer told them "20m each"...... and the Japanese players complained they were worthless to him, why was he so greedy??? He started laughing at them and I watched as he tossed them 1 by 1 in the dumpster at Luna in front of them over the course of 5 minutes, taunting them... laughing at them because they were "dumb" in his words. People wonder why people leave the game...

    This is SO sad and SO human, American or not (and note that I'm Italian, so this last part of the comment is NOT a "Cicero pro domo sua"). At this conditions, BankBoxing the IDOCed SStones in long term "Deep Freeze" is the only rationale choice, I agree.
  • Lord_Obsidian_KnightLord_Obsidian_Knight Posts: 11
    Polaris said:
    Limit the number of packies in the house area and no EJ accounts.
    I have yet to understand why anyone ever says this.... the bots are in llama form and run and loot certain items. They target things like deeds (anything of value,) mempo's, tinker legs.... they auto open all chests and loot them before anyone sees them. I take 1 beetle and 4 pack horses with me if I ever go to an IDOC. I am lucky if 2 of those get items in them.... but sometimes I get lucky and get chests in all of them.

    I'm not sure why people wouldn't say that. The number of Packies are a problem.   If you limit the amount players can hold in decay areas (packies) that would help. EJ accounts shouldn't be allowed in the decaying house area. Like you said it's all luck. That's the fun part about doing decaying houses.  It typically depends on how many people are looting to how many items you get.  Just because there is a lot of people and maybe not a lot of stuff doesn't mean everyone is scripting. Sometimes you just have to be fast.  When i do any kind of decaying house i am always in Llama form.  That doesn't mean i am scripting.  Like i said before the biggest problem is the length of the house timers.  Because most that aren't scripting can't wait a possible 15 hours then a additonal 2 hours to loot and place a house.  So all that is left is scripters.  Also having all the houses fall at the same time is a bad idea.  What about people who work?  They would miss out on most the houses.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,216
    edited February 2020
    Polaris said:
    Limit the number of packies in the house area and no EJ accounts.
    I have yet to understand why anyone ever says this.... the bots are in llama form and run and loot certain items. They target things like deeds (anything of value,) mempo's, tinker legs.... they auto open all chests and loot them before anyone sees them. I take 1 beetle and 4 pack horses with me if I ever go to an IDOC. I am lucky if 2 of those get items in them.... but sometimes I get lucky and get chests in all of them.

    (...)  When i do any kind of decaying house i am always in Llama form.  (...)

    I'm sure I'm missing something here, but... what is the advantage of Lama form? I mean, in a Spitting Contest (whit no Camels around...) it is a no brainer choice, but at an IDOC? :o

    The question is serious, if not in form, in purpose...
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