Mining for Saltpeter... what determines the amount of saltpeter produced ?

popps · May 2019

Margrette said:

popps said:

Aside from the time to search and take down 500 Plunder Beacons, in Saltpeter alone needed for that many points, it would be at 330 Saltpeter per Plunder Beacon some 330 x 500 totallying 165,000 Saltpeter needed....
How are you getting 330 saltpeter per plunder beacon?

If you use an orc ship, you fire the cannon at it 10 times. That means you need 10 cannonballs, 10 fuse cords, and 10 powder charges.

For each fuse cord, you need 1 black powder, which was made from 6 saltpeter. So that's 6 saltpeter per fuse cord and for 10 of them you need 60.

For each powder charge, you need 4 black powder, each of which was made from 6 saltpeter. So that's 24 saltpeter per powder charge and for 10 you need 240.

So, if you use an orc ship and have to make both your fuse cords and your powder charges, you need 300 saltpeter. HOWEVER, if you're doing High Seas content, you should have one of the ship paintings that gives powder charges. And if you haven't been regularly going out and hunting down merchant or pirate ships or doing ship PvP, you are more than likely sitting on a big stockpile of powder charges and don't need any for this event.

If you're using a Tokuno or gargoyle ship, you fire the cannon at plunder beacons 14 times, so you need 84 saltpeter for the fuse cords and 336 for the powder charges (assuming you don't get them from the painting), for a total of 420.

Popps, if you have a ship's painting and a stockpile of powder charges from it and are using an orc ship, you shouldn't need to use more than 60 saltpeter per plunder beacon. Or 84 if you're using a gargoyle or Tokuno ship.

Do you have a ship's painting? I've seen people with a whole wall of them.

"If you use an orc ship, you fire the cannon at it 10 times. That means you need 10 cannonballs, 10 fuse cords, and 10 powder charges."

Orc Ships are not all the same ?

Because I use one and it takes up to 11 (ELEVEN) shots to take down a Plunder Beacon, not 10....

This means, 11 Charges+11 Fuses besides the Cannonballs... now, to make 1 Charge it takes, among others, 4 Black Powders and each Black Powder takes 6 Saltpeters... to make 1 Fuse Cord it takes, among others, 1 Black Powder which is another 6 Saltpeters...

All this, to say that, therefore, among other things and the time to make and gather the components, just to shoot once, it takes some 30 Saltpeters are needed....

Now, to take down 1 PlunderBeacon it needs 11 shots which it makes it, in Saltpeter, 11 x 30 a total of 330 Saltpeter....

I do have a Ship's Painting, unfortunately, the Charges production does not "keep up" with the charges' rate of usage shooting at Plunder beacons....

I only got it recently so, I had not any "stocked up" charges from it.... they get all used up as they come in... and it is not enough, I still need to extensively mine for Saltpeter to make it up for what Saltpeter is missing....

I just had to spend several days of only mining, to stock up 15,000 Saltpeter which will only be enough for a handfull of Plunder Beacons, unfortunately...

That is why I was trying to find a way to "increase" the yield of Saltpeter from mining with this Post....

popps · May 2019

Victim_Of_Siege said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

I can generally mine about 3k saltpeter in 45 minutes to an hour... in Trammel. I believe it's doubled in Fel... so that's about 6k in an hour.

It's not that bad if you don't want to pay for saltpeter. If it's so ridiculously time consuming for you, just buy it. Can you please stop making pointless complaints about every aspect of the game that is not an issue?

I have been trying to keep track of Saltpeter mining yields and even with 3,000 Luck, it is hardly likely that it goes over 2,000 Saltpeter in 1 hour of mining for it....

I am not sure how you can get 3,000 Saltpeter in 45 minutes....

So are you calling her a liar or what? I can get the same amount in about the same time. it takes a good luck suit, a luck statue, a plan, and the desire to actually play the game.

Not at all.... just trying to find out what another player is doing right that another might be doing wrong....

The purpose of this Thread, is precisely to ask for guidance on how to INCREASE the yield of Saltpeter from mining....

It would be beneficial to know "how" other players can achieve high yield of Saltpeter mined....

As I said, 3,000 Luck worn is quite high (it is not an usual Luck achieveable by the average, casual player, especially a new or returning player, I would imagine....), and, yet, it only gave me 2,000 Saltpeter in an hour of mining...

Does that mean that the 3,000 in 45 minutes were done with Luck "higher" then that ?

I have no idea, because it was not explained in the Post the "how" the 3,000 Saltpeter were obtained in 45 minutes so as to allow other players to try replicate that Saltpeter yield....

popps · May 2019

Margrette said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

I can generally mine about 3k saltpeter in 45 minutes to an hour... in Trammel. I believe it's doubled in Fel... so that's about 6k in an hour.

It's not that bad if you don't want to pay for saltpeter. If it's so ridiculously time consuming for you, just buy it. Can you please stop making pointless complaints about every aspect of the game that is not an issue?

I have been trying to keep track of Saltpeter mining yields and even with 3,000 Luck, it is hardly likely that it goes over 2,000 Saltpeter in 1 hour of mining for it....

I am not sure how you can get 3,000 Saltpeter in 45 minutes....

So are you calling her a liar or what? I can get the same amount in about the same time. it takes a good luck suit, a luck statue, a plan, and the desire to actually play the game.

Yeah, today it seemed like the amount of salpeter I was getting was a bit on the low side. Plus I was doing it in Trammel and mining for all the ingots I could get and not wearing that much luck (775 and didn't hit the luck statue). I think some people just run along, hit a mineable spot once and then move on if they don't bring up a niter deposit.

From what I seem to understand, the Niter Deposits, if they spawn, they spawn at the very 1st hit.

So, what I do, is hit once and, if a Niter Deposit does not show up, I move up to the next 8x8 grid... rinse and repeat.

Of course, 1 hit per 1 hit I do accumulate Ore and I smelt it along the way on a Fire Beetle....

To my knowledge, this is the fastest way to mine up for Saltpeter... or is there another ?

popps · May 2019

McDougle said:

why mine unless it is something you enjoy ?? i was given thirty each powder fuse and cannon balls by a guild mate now i have so many i don't just hunt the plunder beacons loot ships take their supplies soon you will have more than enough...

Hunting Dread Pirates' and merchants' Ships I personally found it NOT to be effective to stock up in Energy charges and Fuse Cords....

The amount looted is usually only marginally higher as the amount shot so, the earned quantity is usually only a handfull but it takes up considerable time in the process...

Sure, if one needs also "other" resources then it might be worth it but if one wants to only Focus on taking down as many Plunder Beacons in the shortest time possible.... well... then, at least to my opinion, attacking Dread Pirates' and Merchants' Ships since to waste more time then gain it, as compared to mining of Saltpeter....

I would really like to see the Mining yields for Saltpeter get more balanced out with the Saltpeter's price sold by NPCs....

Either increase the yield of Saltpeter mined up, or increase significantly the price that Saltpeter sells on NPCs.... to my opinion, it should be like at least 500 per Saltpeter, not less....

At that point, it would be comparable to the time invested in mining for Saltpeter AND, it could become also a good way of earning Gold for new or returning players....

And to UO-wealthy players it still would not make a dent in their uber large UO fortunes when they chose to purchase all of their Saltpeter from NPCs rather then spend their in-game time to mine it...

That is at least how I see it.

Arron · May 2019

popps said:

Tim said:

Pawain

Its costs near 200k for 500 saltpeter on LS! that is already too much!

Depends on whether you’re buying or selling

NPCs, when buying from players, pay considerably less as their asking price...

So Sell to players. I am getting a migrain Popps.

Arron · May 2019

Is there a way to block post for certain people? I am asking for a friend. <span>

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Victim_Of_Siege · May 2019

popps said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

I can generally mine about 3k saltpeter in 45 minutes to an hour... in Trammel. I believe it's doubled in Fel... so that's about 6k in an hour.

It's not that bad if you don't want to pay for saltpeter. If it's so ridiculously time consuming for you, just buy it. Can you please stop making pointless complaints about every aspect of the game that is not an issue?

I have been trying to keep track of Saltpeter mining yields and even with 3,000 Luck, it is hardly likely that it goes over 2,000 Saltpeter in 1 hour of mining for it....

I am not sure how you can get 3,000 Saltpeter in 45 minutes....

So are you calling her a liar or what? I can get the same amount in about the same time. it takes a good luck suit, a luck statue, a plan, and the desire to actually play the game.

Not at all.... just trying to find out what another player is doing right that another might be doing wrong....

The purpose of this Thread, is precisely to ask for guidance on how to INCREASE the yield of Saltpeter from mining....

It would be beneficial to know "how" other players can achieve high yield of Saltpeter mined....

As I said, 3,000 Luck worn is quite high (it is not an usual Luck achieveable by the average, casual player, especially a new or returning player, I would imagine....), and, yet, it only gave me 2,000 Saltpeter in an hour of mining...

Does that mean that the 3,000 in 45 minutes were done with Luck "higher" then that ?

I have no idea, because it was not explained in the Post the "how" the 3,000 Saltpeter were obtained in 45 minutes so as to allow other players to try replicate that Saltpeter yield....

it was done by playing the game . . .

Gauge · May 2019

What we do differently is play the game and not create long winded pointless posts just because we want to stir up arguements over something that wont get changesd anyway, its a game to play that we enjoy and accept for what it is so just get on with it

popps · May 2019

Victim_Of_Siege said:

popps said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

I can generally mine about 3k saltpeter in 45 minutes to an hour... in Trammel. I believe it's doubled in Fel... so that's about 6k in an hour.

It's not that bad if you don't want to pay for saltpeter. If it's so ridiculously time consuming for you, just buy it. Can you please stop making pointless complaints about every aspect of the game that is not an issue?

I have been trying to keep track of Saltpeter mining yields and even with 3,000 Luck, it is hardly likely that it goes over 2,000 Saltpeter in 1 hour of mining for it....

I am not sure how you can get 3,000 Saltpeter in 45 minutes....

So are you calling her a liar or what? I can get the same amount in about the same time. it takes a good luck suit, a luck statue, a plan, and the desire to actually play the game.

Not at all.... just trying to find out what another player is doing right that another might be doing wrong....

The purpose of this Thread, is precisely to ask for guidance on how to INCREASE the yield of Saltpeter from mining....

It would be beneficial to know "how" other players can achieve high yield of Saltpeter mined....

As I said, 3,000 Luck worn is quite high (it is not an usual Luck achieveable by the average, casual player, especially a new or returning player, I would imagine....), and, yet, it only gave me 2,000 Saltpeter in an hour of mining...

Does that mean that the 3,000 in 45 minutes were done with Luck "higher" then that ?

I have no idea, because it was not explained in the Post the "how" the 3,000 Saltpeter were obtained in 45 minutes so as to allow other players to try replicate that Saltpeter yield....

it was done by playing the game . . .

Indeed, but there is ways and ways of "playing the game".... some are more rewarding, some are less, they are not all the same....

popps · May 2019

Gauge said:

What we do differently is play the game and not create long winded pointless posts just because we want to stir up arguements over something that wont get changesd anyway, its a game to play that we enjoy and accept for what it is so just get on with it

Well, I see players' feedback on what is felt, of course in a different way since different players may have differying opinions, quite important in order to "adjust" what might not be working towards having players be happy with their playing....

I mean, I do not see "how" the Developers could get what players feel may not be working well for their gameplay, unless they hear it from the players...

And, personally, I think that feedback from quitting players or from unhappy players might be more important as to hear what players are happy with if the end goal is to maintainand increase a good numbered players' base...

But, of course, that is just the way I see it.

Margrette · May 2019

@popps, do you want some advice on how to maximize your enjoyment of this event? If you do, maybe you could let us know a few things:

How many shards are you planning to do the event on? Are there a lot of other people on this/these shard(s) who are also going after plunder beacons when you're able to play?
How many tritons or other rewards do you want to get per shard? In other words, how many points do you need on each of the shards where you plan to do the event?
Do you have more than one active UO account?
If you have more than one active UO account, what kind of characters can you simultaneously log on each of the shards where you plan to do the event and can they cause their own damage to the orc crews/lighthouse or will they only be able to cause damage with cannons?
Can you simultaneously log on any bard characters and which masteries can they run while characters on your other accounts are dealing out damage?
What kind of ship will you use on each shard where you plan to do the event?
Do you have a miner, an alchemist, a tailor, a blacksmith, and a ship's painting on each of the shards where you plan to do the event that can support making cannon supplies?
Do you have guildmates that you can party with for the shipboard fighting and trade with or pay for making cannon supplies?

popps · May 2019

Margrette said:

@ popps, do you want some advice on how to maximize your enjoyment of this event? If you do, maybe you could let us know a few things:

How many shards are you planning to do the event on? Are there a lot of other people on this/these shard(s) who are also going after plunder beacons when you're able to play?
How many tritons or other rewards do you want to get per shard? In other words, how many points do you need on each of the shards where you plan to do the event?
Do you have more than one active UO account?
If you have more than one active UO account, what kind of characters can you simultaneously log on each of the shards where you plan to do the event and can they cause their own damage to the orc crews/lighthouse or will they only be able to cause damage with cannons?
Can you simultaneously log on any bard characters and which masteries can they run while characters on your other accounts are dealing out damage?
What kind of ship will you use on each shard where you plan to do the event?
Do you have a miner, an alchemist, a tailor, a blacksmith, and a ship's painting on each of the shards where you plan to do the event that can support making cannon supplies?
Do you have guildmates that you can party with for the shipboard fighting and trade with or pay for making cannon supplies?

1. Just one Shard as I think that the time necessary to fully participate is quite intensive.... I simply do not have the time to do it on more then 1 Shard...
2. I have been told to set aside at least 5 millions Doubloons points (which it means some 500 Plunder Beacons or, in Saltpeter, some 165,000 Saltpeter to mine....) if I want to be able to get a decent Triton, which is basically what I would like, to have a Triton with whom to then be able to play a Tamer with...
3.No
4.Skipped
5.No Bard Masteries... I only recently returned to Ultima Online and I have yet to catch up in many things, Masteries being one of them....
6.Orc Ship which I put together at the start of the Event by hunting NPCs Dread Pirates
7.Yes, I have a miner, an alchemist, a tailor, a blacksmith. The Ship's painting I only got it at the start of Rising Tide and, as I mentioned already, the Charges that I get are not sufficient to "keep up" with the amount of shooting that I need to do in order to move towards those 5 millions Doubloons points for a good Triton...
8.Still looking to find fellow players to party up with, with less players around, and those established players already being quite well-sufficient in all of their needs and UO necessities, it is not easy to be of any realistic and significant help to them.... I am more of a burden and a weight in UO, currently, then of any pratical help in any UO hunt.... people do not like to hang around with noobs, usually.....

Margrette · May 2019

@popps, what do you intend to hunt with your triton(s)? I'm still not very familiar with animal training, but I think another question to ask is what's your tamer's karma.

@Pawain, does he really need to open 35 triton statues to get a decent triton or two or three?

Victim_Of_Siege · May 2019

Margrette said:

@ popps, what do you intend to hunt with your triton(s)? I'm still not very familiar with animal training, but I think another question to ask is what's your tamer's karma.

@ Pawain, does he really need to open 35 triton statues to get a decent triton or two or three?

I have opened 12 so far and still haven’t gotten one with 120 or more wrestling. 117 is the highest so I would say it is likely, unless the RNG smiles down on Popps.

popps · May 2019

Margrette said:

@ popps, what do you intend to hunt with your triton(s)? I'm still not very familiar with animal training, but I think another question to ask is what's your tamer's karma.

@ Pawain, does he really need to open 35 triton statues to get a decent triton or two or three?

That's what I understood.... that in order to get a Triton with like an 85%+ intensity Rating that was the amount of Tritons one had to spawn... of course, there might be the odd luck of the draw where one gets it the first try, but we are talking on average....

popps · May 2019

I have just done a Saltpeter Mining Test of an hour.

Luck 2,900ish.....

Got 6 Gigantic Niter Deposits. Total Saltpeter mined in 1 hour at that Luck 1,726.

Note. Each hit can yield 0, 1, 2, 3 or 4 Saltpeter.

First Deposit went down in 117 hits and yielded 206 Saltpeter. Average of 1.76 Saltpeter per hit.

Second Deposit went down in 160 hits and yielded 318 Saltpeter. Average of 1.98 Saltpeter per hit.

Third Deposit went down in 128 hits and yielded 249 Saltpeter. Average of 1.94 Saltpeter per hit.

Fourth Deposit went down in 173 hits and yielded 355 Saltpeter. Average of 2.05 Saltpeter per hit.

Fifth Deposit went down in 112 hits and yielded 231 Saltpeter. Average of 2.06 Saltpeter per hit.

Sixth Deposit went down in 176 hits and yielded 367 Saltpeter. Average of 2.08 Saltpeter per hit.

Therefore, those 886 hits at Niter Deposits yielded that total of 1,726 Saltpeter or, an average of 1.948 Saltpeter per hit.

I see it as a pattern therefore....

Give or take, the average per hit is pretty much ALWAYS 2 Saltpeter per hit.

If the code was more "generous" to skew Salteter returns more towards 4 Saltpeter per hit, one could get almost twice as that Saltpeter in the same mining time....

And I am even doing it with pretty high Luck..... definitively more then average....

As I said, the Saltpeter returns per hit should definitively be increased....

Perhaps edit the code to add also 5, 6 and more Saltpeter per hit so to raise the averaged returns, but, I think, something should be done as the current Saltpeter yields are way too low, considered the time it takes to mine it....

Oh, and for the record, I also tried a couple of Gigantic Deposits with less Luck, 1,700ish rather then 2,900 after that hour, and got

First Deposit went down in 93 hits and yielded 203 Saltpeter. Average of 2.18 Saltpeter per hit.

Second Deposit went down in 99 hits and yielded 197 Saltpeter. Average of 1.989 Saltpeter per hit.

The "Size" of the Deposit with less Luck was less "durable"... that is, it went away in less hits BUT, the average Saltpeter yielded "per hit" was pretty much the same of the Deposits mined with more Luck.... so, apprently, Luck does not affect the "per hit" Saltpeter yield....

I think a few more lines of code should be added, permitting the possibility of a hit to yield, as I said, 5, 6 and even more Saltpeter per hit which should then raise the total average per hit, I would imagine....

Pawain · May 2019

Margrette said:

@ popps, what do you intend to hunt with your triton(s)? I'm still not very familiar with animal training, but I think another question to ask is what's your tamer's karma.

@ Pawain, does he really need to open 35 triton statues to get a decent triton or two or three?

Margrette said:

@ popps, what do you intend to hunt with your triton(s)? I'm still not very familiar with animal training, but I think another question to ask is what's your tamer's karma.

@ Pawain, does he really need to open 35 triton statues to get a decent triton or two or three?

It depends on RNG. Should be able to get an over 120 wrestling in 5 tries.

But could take more.

And he just needs 1.

Margrette · May 2019

Pawain said:

It depends on RNG. Should be able to get an over 120 wrestling in 5 tries.

But could take more.

And he just needs 1.

I'm trying to just get one each for 10 different tamer characters I have spread out on a couple of shards. I have 4 of them so far (2 on Sonoma and 2 on Balhae) and they are still in statue form.

I know I'll never have time to get more than those 10 and so I'll just have to settle with what comes out of the statues. If wrestling skill on any one of them is under 120, can I still use animal training to make them into acceptable pets? I am so befuddled about animal training, I honestly don't know. All I know is that I'll never be able to afford power scrolls for any of my pets, so they'll just have to be GM in most skills unless they come out over GM naturally.

Are tritons going to be an "okay" pet within those parameters or am I really just wasting my time trying to get any because the ones with less than 120 wrestling aren't worth putting in the effort to train them without also using power scrolls on them? I'm not a super-ambitious UO player and I seldom make it to EM events, so chances are really, really slim that I'd ever need to use them in a competitive situation against other players to gain "prize" loot.

Pawain · May 2019

110 scrolls will make them fine pets. 120 the chosen magic if you can.

If you have higher scrolls use them

popps · May 2019

Margrette said:

Pawain said:

It depends on RNG. Should be able to get an over 120 wrestling in 5 tries.

But could take more.

And he just needs 1.

I'm trying to just get one each for 10 different tamer characters I have spread out on a couple of shards. I have 4 of them so far (2 on Sonoma and 2 on Balhae) and they are still in statue form.

I know I'll never have time to get more than those 10 and so I'll just have to settle with what comes out of the statues. If wrestling skill on any one of them is under 120, can I still use animal training to make them into acceptable pets? I am so befuddled about animal training, I honestly don't know. All I know is that I'll never be able to afford power scrolls for any of my pets, so they'll just have to be GM in most skills unless they come out over GM naturally.

Are tritons going to be an "okay" pet within those parameters or am I really just wasting my time trying to get any because the ones with less than 120 wrestling aren't worth putting in the effort to train them without also using power scrolls on them? I'm not a super-ambitious UO player and I seldom make it to EM events, so chances are really, really slim that I'd ever need to use them in a competitive situation against other players to gain "prize" loot.

" All I know is that I'll never be able to afford power scrolls for any of my pets, so they'll just have to be GM in most skills unless they come out over GM naturally. "

This is PRECISELY what "in theory" is very nice about the Triton, that it "potentially" can come with 130 Wrestling and 190 resisting Spells thus, not needing any powerscrolls...

The problem is, that because of the RNG, the chances to get a Triton with those 2 Skill numbers are very remote.... that is why it is necessary to spawn a high number of them, to have more chances at a good spawn....

Arron · May 2019

Victim_Of_Siege said:

Margrette said:

@ popps, what do you intend to hunt with your triton(s)? I'm still not very familiar with animal training, but I think another question to ask is what's your tamer's karma.

@ Pawain, does he really need to open 35 triton statues to get a decent triton or two or three?

I have opened 12 so far and still haven’t gotten one with 120 or more wrestling. 117 is the highest so I would say it is likely, unless the RNG smiles down on Popps.

I only opened one and it is at 139 wrestling and 179 Resist

popps · May 2019

Arron said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

Margrette said:

@ popps, what do you intend to hunt with your triton(s)? I'm still not very familiar with animal training, but I think another question to ask is what's your tamer's karma.

@ Pawain, does he really need to open 35 triton statues to get a decent triton or two or three?

I have opened 12 so far and still haven’t gotten one with 120 or more wrestling. 117 is the highest so I would say it is likely, unless the RNG smiles down on Popps.

I only opened one and it is at 139 wrestling and 179 Resist

I thought that the max was 130 Wrestling....

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Mining for Saltpeter... what determines the amount of saltpeter produced ?

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