Pub 104 - Triton Pet

2

Comments

  • I know people keep raving about high dex but as far as im concerned is id rather have a pet that can keep up with me flying at full speed to one that hits a bit harder.  nothing like fleeing for your life and your pet falling behind to become dragon snack.  thats what i so miss about the old days when dragons could fly.  that flying was their version of running and sense that was taken away pets have failed every time in the ability to keep up with their owners making them useless as a defender and easy pray when its a pet you have to tame then manually walk out because its in a location you cant gate out of.
  • RorschachRorschach Posts: 339Moderator
    Many off-topic comments have been removed. Please stay topical in fact-finding threads.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    so It’s not enough to have split energy/phys damage, any special, healing, magical, capped out stats....

    you could train it from 2>4 slot and ride a horse and still would be more powerful than any other pet.

    I was going to say give an inch and people will ask for a mile but it would be more appropriate to say give a mile and they’ll ask for a mile and an inch. 

    This months VERY newsletter Mesanna wrote about concern about power creep. Seems that’s been tossed out the window. I suggest Mesanna  actually hands out her newsletters to the devs to give them a chance of singing in tune. 
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • Mervyn said:
    so It’s not enough to have split energy/phys damage, any special, healing, magical, capped out stats....

    you could train it from 2>4 slot and ride a horse and still would be more powerful than any other pet.
    My exact thoughts the second I looked at this new pet:
    powerful pet even at 4 slots so you can still ride a horse. With the full spectrum of choices this could be customized into both, extremely powerful PvM and PvP pets...

  • VioletViolet Posts: 326
    The split damage of energy/physical is not bonus for end game pvm and in regards to low level pvm farming, there are other mountable energy/physical or energy/something else pets people would use if the mobs were low energy. The fact you stick on this point repeatedly and some other statements you've made make me question your general understanding of the current taming system and the pets currently available to tamers.  

    In regards to keeping it at 4 slot,  pets cannot get max base damage at 4 slots and that extremely limits their damage potential, PvM Armor Ignores would be 74-103 vs 99-135 of a 5 slot pet, the equivalent of reducing strength from 700 to 325. Base damage is the multipler for damage, remember. So in terms of DPS, it would not be stronger. However saying that, that does not mean I don't think there are inherent flaws with this creature. 

    Mervyn and Pawain are at two ends of the spectrum in regards with this pet where the truth is somewhere in the middle.  To avoid needless forum drama, I sent my analysis directly to @Kyronix

  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 957Dev
    Violet said:
     To avoid needless forum drama, I sent my analysis directly to @ Kyronix


    Very helpful - thank you!
  • DrowyDrowy Posts: 107
    A new pet has to be powerful. Otherwise noone would want it and it would become useless.
    Is it OP, definitely not. Phys/Energy isnt good in roof encounter and only for a few other bosses. So it would have its use, but again not OP. As Violet pointed out a level 4 slot will never beat a good level 5 pet in damage output.

    You will be able to max out alot of things, but in the end it might have some more HP and more mana. So it will be a little tougher and can use some more specials. Mana is depleted pretty fast, then its all about mana reg and again it will be the same as current good pets.

    Concerning PvP, pets are mostly useless. They are to slow to chase someone and they do very low damage. They could be used to hold a choke point, but there are probably better ways, cause you never know what your pet does. If pets would be a factor in pvp, you would see alot out there which is not the case.
  • Garth_GreyGarth_Grey Posts: 1,175
    Oh no, a pvm tamer might actually be able to kill a PvPr  with a pet, we can't have that...
    You and Several Others like this.


    Please make the Grizzled Mare a 5 slot mount, it's incredibly rare and deserves it.
  • AaylaAayla Posts: 170
    Violet said:

    Mervyn and Pawain are at two ends of the spectrum in regards with this pet where the truth is somewhere in the middle.  To avoid needless forum drama, I sent my analysis directly to @ Kyronix

    Too bad I love drama lol

    That would be nice to have a random damage if this comes in a statuette. There will be different tritons in the game with different damage types.
  • Oh no, a pvm tamer might actually be able to kill a PvPr  with a pet, we can't have that...
    PvP tamers can already kiil PvPers with the help of their pets. Show me the PvM caster or dexxer template that can kill any decent PvPer.
    PvM and PvP are simply two separate systems these days. Why should tamers be the only exemption to this rule?
  • PawainPawain Posts: 5,264
    edited March 2019
    @Kyronix



    Lets get this publish out. I want the water wheel last month!  :)

    temp.bmp 120.9K
  • PlayerSkillFTWPlayerSkillFTW Posts: 273
    edited March 2019
    Pawain said:
    Since they do not have over capped Strength they will not do any more damage than any other pet type that can get 700 Str.
    The fact that they do not have any wasted specials, means that they WILL do more damage than most pets. If you teach a Triton Chiv+AI, it'll spam AI far more often than a Cu with Chiv+AI will, due to Cus also having Bleed Attack, which sucks up their time/mana for less damage than an AI.
    This is one of the things that makes pre-patch WWs so desirable. It's not so much the up to 60 more STR overcap that increases their damage output by a lot, but the fact that they spam AI due to no wasted specials. When it comes to a pet's Abilities, less is more. The more abilities you cram onto a pet, the less often it'll use each individual ability, so the most powerful ability (AI) will be used less often then.

    Plus, with their ultra high Resist skill, the Triton is basically immune to debuff spells. Almost nothing can drop their STR/Stam with a Curse/Weaken/Clumsy spell then. You also don't have to worry about a Poison cast from their opponent interrupting healing, Tritons are basically immune to the In Nox spell as well.

    I like the Triton having some Energy Damage, for that allows it to learn Conductive Blast, making it the best pet for the Death Ray Tamer/Mage template.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited March 2019
    TC4:
    Triton – adjusted stats & skills.

    I just lored a new one, looks like it's stats have been increased?


    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • VioletViolet Posts: 326
    Mervyn said:
    TC4:
    Triton – adjusted stats & skills.

    I just lored a new one, looks like it's stats have been increased?


    Stats were decreased substantially.


  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    I didn’t notice any decrease. Couldn’t have been that substantial. 
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • ZekeTerraZekeTerra Posts: 310
    Hit points went from 800 to 600 and Strength went from 200's to 100's.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    Substantial.
    adjective:
    of considerable importance, size, or worth.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • VioletViolet Posts: 326
    edited March 2019
    Mervyn said:
    Substantial.
    adjective:
    of considerable importance, size, or worth.

    Top End Hits were reduced from 900 to 700, a reduction of 22%, or 600 intensity points.

    Top end strength was reduced from around 360 to 245, a reduction of approximately 33% and over 300 intensity points.

    That is what would be considered a substantial decrease in stats.

     Thank you, but I understand what that word means.

    So you are looking at a reduction of max intensity of approximately 900 points from reducing those two stats. It is also now better in line with other trainable creatures and the animal intensity system.

    From the posts you have written in general forums, I understand that Animal Training has been a difficult subject for you to wrap your mind around. I'm sure Pawain could help you with a rudimentary understanding of the system and there is also the UO wiki and the INFO button on the pet training gump that brings up "Discovering Animal Taming". For a more in-depth understanding on animal intensity, you can find that information if you look.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited March 2019
    I wouldn’t class a 22% and 33% reduction in something that started off around 200% more powerful than other pets as substantial.

    I thought you wanted to avoid forum drama, yet you throw out accusations that others who have a differing opinion to you as “having difficulty” and add some condescension at the end. 
    If you’re taking about my post showing the flaws in animal training. If you know so much, why didn’t you post it? 
    You just accept the flaws and want to play with an overly complex system so you can feel a sense of superiority over new players. I’ve met your type before and don’t think much of it. Try doing something for the community rather than massaging your own ego, it might give you the same end result.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • DrowyDrowy Posts: 107
    Mervyn said:
    I wouldn’t class a 22% and 33% reduction in something that started off around 200% more powerful than other pets as substantial.

    The Triton was never 200% better than other pets. It was stronger/better than alot, but it has to in top range to be interesting to keep. 900 intensity points is alot and I would also call it substantial. Hopefully it will still be useful for some fights, because the Physical/Energy attack is bad for most.
  • KronalKronal Posts: 81
    Mervyn said:
    I wouldn’t class a 22% and 33% reduction in something that started off around 200% more powerful than other pets as substantial.

    I thought you wanted to avoid forum drama, yet you throw out accusations that others who have a differing opinion to you as “having difficulty” and add some condescension at the end. 
    If you’re taking about my post showing the flaws in animal training. If you know so much, why didn’t you post it? 
    You just accept the flaws and want to play with an overly complex system so you can feel a sense of superiority over new players. I’ve met your type before and don’t think much of it. Try doing something for the community rather than massaging your own ego, it might give you the same end result.

    It was no where near 200% better than any pet.  It is at this point after the nerf, better than most pets however considering it is a reward and not something you can go farm for hours I think that is acceptable.  If it was nerfed any more than this there would be no reason to even bother with it.  I'm happy that the devs didn't beat it with the nerf stick to the point of uselessness.  At this point I will actually purchase the High Seas expansion for the access to this pet. Oh and as far as Violets contributions.... apparently you havn't visited his/hers taming website sparky.  One of the most useful sites for tamers (old and new) that exist.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    Well I don’t know how difficult they are to get, so if they are extremely difficult to obtain then fair enough. 
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • PawainPawain Posts: 5,264
    edited March 2019
    @Kyronix

    I'm sure all the other posters did the same before they gave you their impressions of the Triton.

    This build is a high point usage build.  The new Triton can not get this build as it is without major reduction in other areas.  The Ninja.scroll,FWW cost 701 points.

    The original Triton:

    The pet has very high intensity that made the spreadsheet users cower in fear. 


    The lack of any abilities made another poster think it would just AI everything in its path.  Apparently he has never used the other pets that can get AI/Chiv with nothing else.

    I did a series of tests where it is easier to put pics: https://stratics.com/threads/test-pls-no-reply-till-finished.407710/#post-2990565

    I have the pet skilling right now and its Chiv and Ninja are slowly increasing.

    If somebody wants me to do more testing on a different Mob I will.  If they want to bring me some keys Ill take it to a peerless and test it.

    I only do tests on high HP mobs, any pet can kill the rest.

    My conclusion is the same as it was in my first post here.  The pet as it was is not OP it will do no more damage than any other pet we have.  It has advantages that a new player will be able to use and not mess up his pet.

    Since the triton is a done deal.  Please consider another pet that starts similar to the original triton.
    You could leave the Str as it was originally and knock off 200 HP to appease the intensity posters.

    Thank You
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Good job @Pawain
  • KhyroKhyro Posts: 208
    edited March 2019
    Pawain said:
    @ Kyronix

    I'm sure all the other posters did the same before they gave you their impressions of the Triton.

    This build is a high point usage build.  The new Triton can not get this build as it is without major reduction in other areas.  The Ninja.scroll,FWW cost 701 points.

    The original Triton:

    The pet has very high intensity that made the spreadsheet users cower in fear. 


    The lack of any abilities made another poster think it would just AI everything in its path.  Apparently he has never used the other pets that can get AI/Chiv with nothing else.

    I did a series of tests where it is easier to put pics: https://stratics.com/threads/test-pls-no-reply-till-finished.407710/#post-2990565

    I have the pet skilling right now and its Chiv and Ninja are slowly increasing.

    If somebody wants me to do more testing on a different Mob I will.  If they want to bring me some keys Ill take it to a peerless and test it.

    I only do tests on high HP mobs, any pet can kill the rest.

    My conclusion is the same as it was in my first post here.  The pet as it was is not OP it will do no more damage than any other pet we have.  It has advantages that a new player will be able to use and not mess up his pet.

    Since the triton is a done deal.  Please consider another pet that starts similar to the original triton.
    You could leave the Str as it was originally and knock off 200 HP to appease the intensity posters.

    Thank You
    The Triton is in a better state than it previously was, I am sorry that you cannot see that. 

    The condescension from you in this post is unwarranted and very immature and it is very clear who your personal attacks are directed towards.

    All pets work off of Intensity -- this is not something we made up. The whole pet revamp was based around Intensity. It determines a pet's spawn range, and its training power. Due to the Triton being a statuette, it had the potential to have nearly 900 intensity more than a 2 slot pet should have had. If it were a tamable (like the base pet is was modeled after), it would spawn in the 2-3 slot range.

    This is the feedback we provided to Kyronix in a very detailed and analytical manner. Our feedback is based on non-biased information and determinations around the overall balance and health of the game.

    The Triton in its original state would have created a huge power creep for pets which would have been damaging to the game as a whole. You cannot seem to put your own personal desires over the benefit of the game.

    What is even more amusing is that the build you claim is no longer possible, is actually still very much possible with the revamped Triton -- we have told you this prior and even showed you a real-world example of such a pet trained on TC.

    You say the original Triton had advantages for new players, but the revamped version does not. Do you really not see the benefit of a pet with innate overcapped wrestling? That is extremely new player (and veteran player) friendly as it prevents you from needing to invest 28m+ gold (based on current VS) into a Wrestling Powerscroll. Wrestling, being one of the most important (if not the most important) scrolls needed for a pet.

    Hits were reduced quite a bit to cut down on the intensity of the pet, the devs chose to also reduce the spawn range of Strength as well which resulted in 300 less intensity potential from Strength.

    You seem to think this lowered Strength neutered the pet. I begin to wonder if you have even tried training a revamped version of the Triton on Test Center, or you are just basing your objections on hearsay. 

    The Triton in its current form is capable of getting any build still, including the incredibly heavy build you desperately want. If you happen to spawn a lower-end Triton, you can still get the build by dropping Tactics to 110 or even 105 (which accounts for a very small amount of damage overall), or lowering Stamina Regen,

    You saying that the Triton was not overpowered because "it will not do more damage than other pets we have" just solidifies my belief that you do not truly understand the taming system. There is more than damage output to look at when determining if a pet is overpowered or not.

    I would much rather have the Triton in its current state than its previous state, and based on public feedback from others on various forums, most people seem to agree.
    https://www.uo-cah.com
    Home of the Pet Intensity Calculator, Pet Planner, Trainable Animal Bestiary, and other Tools, Guides, and Information. 

  • VioletViolet Posts: 326
    edited March 2019
    Pawain said:
    @ Kyronix

    I'm sure all the other posters did the same before they gave you their impressions of the Triton.

    This build is a high point usage build.  The new Triton can not get this build as it is without major reduction in other areas.  The Ninja.scroll,FWW cost 701 points.


    You having to resort to snide comments and personal attacks in this thread says a lot about what your motivations may be.

    You can get that exact build you are testing with on a Triton.v2. You will just be missing 140 health (which you seem fine with since you suggested to them to remove health in the future). You will just need a 77%+ (which do spawn) for that exact build, and if you lower the stamina regen to 10 (most people only carry 5 on their pet, since they usually have to give up something to get more), then you can get ones as low as 66% and still have the spec below. And with 5 stamina regen, you are down to 61%.

    It seems very clear to me that you have not actually tested the new Triton by some of your comments.

    DPS is not the only way a pet can be deemed overpowered, which either you do not understand or you just choose to ignore it because it doesn't fit your agenda.




  • RorschachRorschach Posts: 339Moderator
    Please keep the discussion respectful and constructive. Disagreements are OK. Personal attacks are not OK.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 5,264
    edited March 2019
    Rorschach said:
    Please keep the discussion respectful and constructive. Disagreements are OK. Personal attacks are not OK.

    Sorry, If I made any, you have permission to edit them out. I mentioned specific things to show what their side was and to counter with my side.

    @Violet I do not know how easy, difficult or how long these pets will be available.  If these are like the crimson/platinum drakes, it could take >20 to get one that is 77%.  But thanks for the info.

    I would rather be able to build any with a build like this without relying on the RNG. I could make many different variations of the Version 1 Triton.  Would be nice to build a pet with abilities that I do not already have.
  • TanagerTanager Posts: 634
    edited March 2019
    @Kyronix

    If the Triton pet is a participation award, what qualifies as participating? Is it enough to deliver a trade cargo that some one else gave you? Taking out some critters, a single orc ship, 50 plunder beacons? I have a few guildmates who do not have much time for UO atm, and I would like to be able to help them get credit towards the pet.

    If the participation qualifications are secret tho (to encourage people to participate the most they can), I understand. But if it would be possible to know, that would be great. At least to know what does NOT count.

    Thanks!
  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 957Dev
    Anyone who turns in the cargo to the Pirate Merchant can spend the doubloons they receive on the rewards.  If you'd like to help your friends - just horde some cargo for them to turn in!
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