General question about animal training (especially special moves)
After 3 broken pets... I come here with my tail tucked between my legs.
There is one thing that escapes me... we're offered all those nice options, and some combos apparently...on this last one I aimed for this special move which included the training for bleed, paralyse and armor ignore, it said the three were a prerequisite to train it, so here I go trying to add the 3 in, well it stopped after 2, now I'm locked out again of all other options. So not only I'm locked out of the wrestling mastery I was going for, I can't have the combo and now its only using one of all his skills in "lore and knowledge" aka broken. Like it can't even fight a mud golem at 4 slots... that bad broken. If I carry 4 regular untrained one slot pet, the thing dies 5 times faster... this is not supposed to work like this, is it?
Why present the combo to us if its going to break our pet? Seems a bit cruel. We get warnings for everything else... All this time, all this money for scrolls wasted... so my question is:
What is the limit? Why is it not on taming guides I read, why does everyone tell me they have "broken" pets too and still have not any idea how it works?
I know the "perfect build guides" are there.. but what if we want to try other options?
Right now 100% risk of breaking the pet for me.
is it the number of skills, the number of elements in lore and knowledge?
If at least I'd know the actual limits, I could think differently. It should not be so easy and so common to completely break pets with thousands of hours into them (counting the time/money to get the scrolls). I meet tamers every single day that tell me they've broken multiple some dozens of pet.
And now the power scrolls can't be bought anymore (a simple wrestling powerscroll can go 50 millions now). Was this really thought through?
Such a nice and fun system, and now only the rich can afford it...
With my best broken pet... I can maybe farm 100k an hour... do you know how many hours this is for one scroll to perhaps get a chance to get a better pet ? to perhaps get a better pet after I sunk everything I had into 2 pets...
It has to make sense for it to remain fun, and not just feel like I should have built a dexxer and kill everything in one-two hit like many players I see passing me by.
I don't mind if I don't have the best pet... but I do mind wasting all this time for an error that could be prevented by better tooltips or clear explanations.
Is there hope for a revamp that could fix those previously broken pets?
There is one thing that escapes me... we're offered all those nice options, and some combos apparently...on this last one I aimed for this special move which included the training for bleed, paralyse and armor ignore, it said the three were a prerequisite to train it, so here I go trying to add the 3 in, well it stopped after 2, now I'm locked out again of all other options. So not only I'm locked out of the wrestling mastery I was going for, I can't have the combo and now its only using one of all his skills in "lore and knowledge" aka broken. Like it can't even fight a mud golem at 4 slots... that bad broken. If I carry 4 regular untrained one slot pet, the thing dies 5 times faster... this is not supposed to work like this, is it?
Why present the combo to us if its going to break our pet? Seems a bit cruel. We get warnings for everything else... All this time, all this money for scrolls wasted... so my question is:
What is the limit? Why is it not on taming guides I read, why does everyone tell me they have "broken" pets too and still have not any idea how it works?
I know the "perfect build guides" are there.. but what if we want to try other options?
Right now 100% risk of breaking the pet for me.
is it the number of skills, the number of elements in lore and knowledge?
If at least I'd know the actual limits, I could think differently. It should not be so easy and so common to completely break pets with thousands of hours into them (counting the time/money to get the scrolls). I meet tamers every single day that tell me they've broken multiple some dozens of pet.
And now the power scrolls can't be bought anymore (a simple wrestling powerscroll can go 50 millions now). Was this really thought through?
Such a nice and fun system, and now only the rich can afford it...
With my best broken pet... I can maybe farm 100k an hour... do you know how many hours this is for one scroll to perhaps get a chance to get a better pet ? to perhaps get a better pet after I sunk everything I had into 2 pets...
It has to make sense for it to remain fun, and not just feel like I should have built a dexxer and kill everything in one-two hit like many players I see passing me by.
I don't mind if I don't have the best pet... but I do mind wasting all this time for an error that could be prevented by better tooltips or clear explanations.
Is there hope for a revamp that could fix those previously broken pets?
Comments
When it said prerequisite were required they are already in the choice.
They are just mentioned to explain why that choice requires so many points and the extra skills you get when you hit "train".
You don't actually have to add them before hand.
And I've seen so many taming guides... this is why people rely so much on "builds" yet I still meet people everyday who "break" pets while trying something else. Nobody wants to slap the same build on all pets I hope or it makes the whole system irrelevant.
This is supposed to be a fun system and I agree it is nice to have so much freedom with it, I would not say broken if it was only imperfect or lacking because of my skill choice.
When I say broken it is broken... it just won't train something, the skill is not going up or being used at all... or it does for a while then stops, or reverses even. I think the fun part is obscured by that looming doubt that it will simply not work because of the design not giving you proper limits. It just feels unfair and yes ruins the final part where you enjoy your hard labor.
I love the new system btw, its amazing apart from that.
You may only select a total of Three options, two from the first 3 categories shown here and one from the magical abilities list. Select in the order shown below, magical ability last. Keep in mind many pets already have a special ability, which cannot be overwritten. This reduces your choices.
https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/animal-taming/animal-training/
You misread. Piercing gives the pet those abilities, they are not prerequisites.
https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/animal-taming/animal-training-abilities/
They are weighted. Moves are less so you can get 2.
You can always put a magic last.
Page is fine. It's like reading a math textbook. Because it is all math.
I guess I glitched and it would just not apply... happened to me twice before just not working
Regardless of the guides and if people read well, imagine the number of players who still fall prey to it, such a huge "trap" should not be left for players to discover by 500 million worth trial and error each time, because those pets I push that far are those who are worth the money... all other options are blocked when they should be blocked, and its logically understandable... this part is not.
Also I did read UO-Cah and couldn't find a specific part about those calculations? in which document is it explained?
I broke my pet for no reason
And yes I think Mariah and UO-Cah did amazing jobs... but still some things should be in game because they are in game mechanics made for tamers to have fun, not be ruined and not be able to start again.
Some things should be community, some things need to be programmed in to be clear, and this is the case here imo, in no way I was saying the player documentation was not up to par.
Its a game, it should allow everyone to have fun and be competitive, I'm not saying they should be free, but, accessible, possible, within reasonable limits. Again maybe I'm just missing information to understand.
I don't see it slowing down... so this means I will build no warrior and neither will I have any high level pets, for the foreseeable few next years. And perhaps ever, unless I find a miraculous way to make gold. And I will have to guide my returning players to make build with skills that are not used by pets... which is close to impossible...
Do you see how bad this sounds?
Sorry to say but its breaking the experience of 3 returning vets in my guild right now, they have no hopes so they stopped being active, and most importantly stopped being exited about progress. They cannot even hope for a 120, like ever, as we pull like maybe 100k an hour in hunts, the hardest we can handle. And we won't handle stronger for better loot unless they can advance.
Oh and btw its not just the 120s... my last pets only had 110, and it was barely affordable.
I think it is very important that it be addressed as a whole problem... somehow.
But the wiki has all the numbers for the value of each stat on a pet.
There is no easy guide for the taming revamp. It is multi part and certain mobs help you gain certain things.
If you want to try the mastery "Magics". Kill tigers till a black or white appear. You can put any of them on a Wild Tiger. Slashing, Piercing, etc.
The Sabre-Tooth Tigers have Slashing Mastery. The Lion has Piercing Mastery. If you damage a Sabre tooth, it will heal itself, if you can tame it while healing is on the Lore screen, it will have Healing.
Lions, Tigers and Sabre-Tooths Oh my.
110 scrolls are fine. You can get a whole set for 10 to 15M on Atl. Use 120s for magics. Except magery, pets dont fizzle.
I get what you mean and I will have fun anyways, but going in and ruining my only chance at a superior pet while a simple tooltip would have prevented it, is a bitter aftertaste of long effort, I know some people do it fast but it took me time, doing tests and being careful. The whole way up was fun I actually loved the complexity, I loved the masteries too which I figured after a few pets. I love the fact its not clear what is the best (I think we all have fun that is unequivocal) but its not clear why I'm allowed to fail in this very basic measure, I think its not good design.
I think to myself: I'm ready I read all of UO Cah, did many tests with what I could tame, I don't know how I missed these calculations but I guess I did, I referred to the basic guides and didn't see such limitations clearly indicated... And its not like I'm saying "unfair" because the RNG is unfair the stats on my pet are not good or anything like that, it just makes no sense to let me do this as a player without any warning. I put hard effort, I should know if I'm going to break something... like anything else! Or at least it should say "choices remaining" or something.
Could ask us when adding a magical ability, this will render your previous magical ability unusable, do you wish to continue? I'm sure you agree it would be much simpler, knowing not many will read the whole documentation?
What is gained in the fact I ruined myself breaking pets? Nothing... nobody gained anything. What is the use of this mechanic?
I love 99% of it, but this 1% which I think is basic in that you do not want your player to feel cheated with hard effort... its long for me to accumulate 10 millions... the market of what I can get is saturated, I don't know what to say its just feedback and questions.
I take risks while playing UO all the time and lose and find it fun, but I know what I am getting into. For this I did not, and I actively tried, so take it for what it's worth.
I know some people power game and it might seem irrelevant in the big picture, but there are a lot, and I mean a lot of players like me relearning it all, playing very organically or casually, and generally many I talk to feel cheated by this system.
If I'm really now an elder tamer, there is no roleplaying reason what so ever that something like this would happen, my pet just short circuits and I have to guide it myself to the oubliettes, kill it?
Wait and hope it can be repaired with a unicorn wand of mercy?
Makes absolutely no sense... I built them for a reason for a specific purpose with specific skills and resist and no I did not follow the perfect template for those reasons... *long sigh* I played the game like it was intended, leaning on my own experience and roleplaying the tamer.
There are gates on Test Center that will advance pets level to 100%. We can design and test pets there. You can virtually build using the Cah Planner.
If you're on Atlantic i can donate some gold or buy some scrolls.
DO NOT beat yourself up over this. It happens to even the longest of vet players. Being tired or in a rush this can happen so easily.
The bright side is there's always a player that will take, cherish and use whatever pet you think is bad.
Then spend 6 mo making that pet into a FWW/Chiv pet.
I appreciate the replies, I know that technically my pet isn't ruined... but you knew what I meant I've got some medium powered pets that I did who work wonderfully for low-mid content, but then I was generously given some rare ones, and felt like I did enough pets to go all in with all my money for 2 pets that I did plan carefully, to help tank for my guild in specific situations we could not handle otherwise. Apparently a player tank can't really tank well...
I used this page as a reference, and also browsed the other ones many times : https://www.uo-cah.com/training/pet-training-basics
and you see there is not a single mention of such limits... If you know the owner of that page this is the link that 90% of tamers (who also broke pets btw) gave to me... so we can understand what is going on here, the official page is better than the guide everyone thinks is the best out there, so why aren't people using the Wiki or Official page? maybe they don't know it exists for some reason... I know I did search UO taming and browsed various sites but this one did not pop up on top of the search, it should be the first on top.
This puzzles me, I literally asked tamers all week those two questions, have you broken a pet, do you know why it broke so I can not make the same mistake. And they say they've read the whole UO-Cah and don't know what they did wrong, some of them even gave me pets to replace my broken ones (people are really generous). In fact right now, I can stand at the stable and there are lots of people who want to give me otherwise "perfect build" pets because they say they don't want to buy powerscrolls anymore, they are done with taming. (what?)
I was just given a pink CU, which is the "perfect spawn and build" and has some points left to apply the powerscrolls, I asked the owner why would not you sell it, he says it won't sell... so why not complete it?
He said he was done buying powerscrolls and training pets... because he broke too many, he said over 20, burned out. Said if I didn't take it he would kill it because its getting hard to give them ?! (re-what?!)
The first "major" pet I did actually glitched, I did plan it on the tool but when I went to apply my magical ability it would not show up, so I pressed again and again on the button and it let me do it, took one point each time but it would not show up in lore and knowledge, I still don't know why... so I thought it did not work so I tried another skill, I thought not the best but at least it might work, big error at that moment both showed up and he stopped using everything else but the last one. So he's using 1/5 abilities... and yes its broken, if I pit my major pet against a mud elemental and he struggles, its broken alright, my mid pets chew through them in seconds I use them a kind of baseline for analysis because good overall resists and high skill. So a pet I invested over 80 millions on... is worse than a pet that only has a few 110 scrolls and I did casually?
The system is perhaps fine, but it does glitch, like many other things... and system that allow you to break something permanently is not fun regardless of the true cause. Its like I spent months building a house making deco and then I added one too many items and the whole house reset and 4/5th of my deco is gone. Every game systems has failsafe for this reason, because it should be fun.
For me the fun is in trying different possibilities, maybe having it sub-par (in which case I would not have any problem, I intentionally did not chose the common "perfect" build.) Like Mariah said I'm just trying to have fun, not to be perfect or to sell it or make money, just want to bring my guild in more challenging places.
But right now I'm not having fun because yes, I have no funds left to start again... but mainly also because this limits the combinations I can pick, tremendously... I understand now why everyone makes the same build (and its not fun), they do it to be safe with hard earned money (the worse reason imo). I'd prefer limited choices, but that work, and it would prevent so much frustration and players burned out. There is no way I can flip it where I will appreciate that I'm being offered choices that are guaranteed to break my pet. Everything else in game has fail-safes to prevent you from doing absurd errors nobody would ever want to make.
My guild was playing at least 6 hours each night, now they haven't logged on in 3 days, sparingly last week, they had been looking for reasonably priced scrolls for days and got tired... this is the last thing I heard from the 3 most active players I had.
These were 15 year returning veterans who knew the game very well... who were so motivated, and I saw them go from AHHHMAZING to "ugh". We are noobs again, but we know how to play. So the issue is not us, there is a big gap between low level content (and its low level loot we cannot sell) and high level content, where my guildmembers feel grossly underpowered, the 120 scrolls do not seem optional.
Technically it should be... but the jump to end-game content is almost immediate, if we want to pull worthy sellable rewards to get money to train pets, or new characters and not feel like we're wasting our time.
Those pets were meant to help us do that.
Urge, if you want you can DM me and we can meet, I will take anything that can give me another shot a this, now that I have the proper information.
Pawain was also real nice, gave me artifacts that tremendously helped me and I could not have gotten otherwise.
Again I should not have advanced that fast, its thanks to all of you that I had the luxury to train such high level pets. I'm not complaining at all... its just that if I fell to it with all I know about UO... it means thousands more will fall too, and its not good for player retention, especially that it affects regular character building now because both use the same powerscrolls. I also think this is bad design, I understand the intention... but now people hit a wall and are forced to realize they can never afford their simple build. Not good
1. Get the number of maps you think you can do in an hour.
2. Organize them by facet.
3. Get all the ciphers you will need and decipher the maps.
4. Go mark runes at all of your locations.
When you are ready, hit your luck items and kal ort por.
Pets: you have basically 6 weeks to do what you want to do with this event. If you have a pet that can poison area and FWW that is your go to. If you don't have that type of pet but you have one that can do AoE, go with that pet. Single target pets will work but take longer. You would be better off to use summons.
Also, don't expect to stand there while your pet wins the day. You will need to heal it occasionally and you will need to direct its attacks.
What pets do you have now and what are their abilities?