I'm starting to despise my 'weapon' of choice...

LeBaiton · November 6

I play tamer hybrid characters, mainly treasurehunters. It's 2025, and I feel like we're still being viewed and judged by the developers for the heavily overpowered class tamers once were during Trammel's 'golden age', even though we're now often being overclassed by other melee or magic templates. There is a lack of balance and definitely an enormous lack of pet-control compared to weaponwielders and spellslingers compared to those of us who use their pets as their weapon.

If I fight the new event spawn (just one example) with my pet, my pet is not only my strenght, but also very much my weakness, and the lack of control I have over my 'weapon' is appaling. When I fight with my pet it has its own will apparently, if I tell it to attack a certain creature, I have to spam for it to keep killing it and not to run off towards another target on the other side of my screen, leaving me vulnerable to attack. If it's fighting multiple targets, it switches whenever it wants to, instead of being focussed on the target I want it to kill first. My weapon doesn't listen to me, no matter how many skillpoints I have invested, and I can't put it on some sort of passive status. My weapon doesn't protect me when I tell it to guard me...

Compare this to an armored melee class, and I look silly with this lack of control. When my weapon runs off, it can't find its way back to me. It gets stuck behind trees, behind rocks, bumps, walls, or anything else that might obstruct its path, unless I move aside. Monsters however have no problem running after me, they don't get stuck and have perfect pathfinding. And when my weapon decides it wants to kill something it has no problems walking around whatever objects there are to reach a target. Often targets which I don't want it to target.

My pets are its skills, its hitpoints and its special attacks. It receives no benefits from me carrying a slayer, its hitpoints and skillsets receive no benefits from me carrying certain armor pieces, what you see is what you get. Other classes benefit greatly from carrying armor, weapons, spellbooks. Those increases their melee power, magic power, this power transfers to the weapons they carry. A tamer's weapon is just that, pixelcrack with set stats that don't benefit from anything. You can increase their power with scrolls, but if you need to switch between 'weapons' you need to scroll and train those up as well.

I'd like more balance. I want what I wear or carry to impact my weapon. I want my armor sets to benefit my pet's stats or attack power, like a melee or magic user's weapons impact their weapons of choice. I want the slayers I carry to affect my pet. I'd like to see my pet getting bonusses from things I carry. It makes for a more even playing field.

I need more reliability when I command my pet. I need my pet to stay at my side and defend me at all cost. If I'm being attacked by a mob, I want my pet to be able to grab aggro from me so that I can get away from big hitting things. I want my pet to be smarter, currently they're dumb, do stupid stuff and cause my tamers death lots of times.

I told someone on another forum that I do the massive dragon nests with my tamer/t-hunter. They said to kill the spawn fast, do them with your melee toon. I don't have one. But I feel like I need one. I don't want to feel like I need one, I'd like a more even playing field instead. I feel the investment in Taming/Lore/Veterinary/Magic should compare to a melee's investment in Weapon Skill/Tactics/Anatomy/Healing.

Anyway, that's my rant for now, on with the show. Be nice if this would be seen by someone who could say something about the terrible lack of control. Cheers.

Grimbeard · November 6

LeBaiton said:

I play tamer hybrid characters, mainly treasurehunters. It's 2025, and I feel like we're still being viewed and judged by the developers for the heavily overpowered class tamers once were during Trammel's 'golden age', even though we're now often being overclassed by other melee or magic templates. There is a lack of balance and definitely an enormous lack of pet-control compared to weaponwielders and spellslingers compared to those of us who use their pets as their weapon.
If I fight the new event spawn (just one example) with my pet, my pet is not only my strenght, but also very much my weakness, and the lack of control I have over my 'weapon' is appaling. When I fight with my pet it has its own will apparently, if I tell it to attack a certain creature, I have to spam for it to keep killing it and not to run off towards another target on the other side of my screen, leaving me vulnerable to attack. If it's fighting multiple targets, it switches whenever it wants to, instead of being focussed on the target I want it to kill first. My weapon doesn't listen to me, no matter how many skillpoints I have invested, and I can't put it on some sort of passive status. My weapon doesn't protect me when I tell it to guard me...
Compare this to an armored melee class, and I look silly with this lack of control. When my weapon runs off, it can't find its way back to me. It gets stuck behind trees, behind rocks, bumps, walls, or anything else that might obstruct its path, unless I move aside. Monsters however have no problem running after me, they don't get stuck and have perfect pathfinding. And when my weapon decides it wants to kill something it has no problems walking around whatever objects there are to reach a target. Often targets which I don't want it to target.
My pets are its skills, its hitpoints and its special attacks. It receives no benefits from me carrying a slayer, its hitpoints and skillsets receive no benefits from me carrying certain armor pieces, what you see is what you get. Other classes benefit greatly from carrying armor, weapons, spellbooks. Those increases their melee power, magic power, this power transfers to the weapons they carry. A tamer's weapon is just that, pixelcrack with set stats that don't benefit from anything. You can increase their power with scrolls, but if you need to switch between 'weapons' you need to scroll and train those up as well.
I'd like more balance. I want what I wear or carry to impact my weapon. I want my armor sets to benefit my pet's stats or attack power, like a melee or magic user's weapons impact their weapons of choice. I want the slayers I carry to affect my pet. I'd like to see my pet getting bonusses from things I carry. It makes for a more even playing field.
I need more reliability when I command my pet. I need my pet to stay at my side and defend me at all cost. If I'm being attacked by a mob, I want my pet to be able to grab aggro from me so that I can get away from big hitting things. I want my pet to be smarter, currently they're dumb, do stupid stuff and cause my tamers death lots of times.
I told someone on another forum that I do the massive dragon nests with my tamer/t-hunter. They said to kill the spawn fast, do them with your melee toon. I don't have one. But I feel like I need one. I don't want to feel like I need one, I'd like a more even playing field instead. I feel the investment in Taming/Lore/Veterinary/Magic should compare to a melee's investment in Weapon Skill/Tactics/Anatomy/Healing.
Anyway, that's my rant for now, on with the show. Be nice if this would be seen by someone who could say something about the terrible lack of control. Cheers.

The bard laughs whilst crying and slowly walks away cursing 160 barding difficulty and non bardable creatures.

LeBaiton · November 6

Oh yeah they definitely did you guys many wrongs over the past years too!

Grimbeard · November 6

What is find helpful is too not have aoe attack especially goo etc as it causes them to shift

Rocko · November 6

I’m not a fan of word walls but I did read this one and gotta say I feel your pain. I was hunting pirates with my cu, scuttled and used the rope, targeted an orc and my pet went straight to the pirate. Pirate and cu became buddies quick. Some times I have to climb in the saddle to get the pet to stop.

Anyway it would be nice to see a QoL pass for tamers.

I have zero complaints about the types of tamables and versatility of templates.

Rocko · November 6

Grimbeard said:

LeBaiton said:

I play tamer hybrid characters, mainly treasurehunters. It's 2025, and I feel like we're still being viewed and judged by the developers for the heavily overpowered class tamers once were during Trammel's 'golden age', even though we're now often being overclassed by other melee or magic templates. There is a lack of balance and definitely an enormous lack of pet-control compared to weaponwielders and spellslingers compared to those of us who use their pets as their weapon.
If I fight the new event spawn (just one example) with my pet, my pet is not only my strenght, but also very much my weakness, and the lack of control I have over my 'weapon' is appaling. When I fight with my pet it has its own will apparently, if I tell it to attack a certain creature, I have to spam for it to keep killing it and not to run off towards another target on the other side of my screen, leaving me vulnerable to attack. If it's fighting multiple targets, it switches whenever it wants to, instead of being focussed on the target I want it to kill first. My weapon doesn't listen to me, no matter how many skillpoints I have invested, and I can't put it on some sort of passive status. My weapon doesn't protect me when I tell it to guard me...
Compare this to an armored melee class, and I look silly with this lack of control. When my weapon runs off, it can't find its way back to me. It gets stuck behind trees, behind rocks, bumps, walls, or anything else that might obstruct its path, unless I move aside. Monsters however have no problem running after me, they don't get stuck and have perfect pathfinding. And when my weapon decides it wants to kill something it has no problems walking around whatever objects there are to reach a target. Often targets which I don't want it to target.
My pets are its skills, its hitpoints and its special attacks. It receives no benefits from me carrying a slayer, its hitpoints and skillsets receive no benefits from me carrying certain armor pieces, what you see is what you get. Other classes benefit greatly from carrying armor, weapons, spellbooks. Those increases their melee power, magic power, this power transfers to the weapons they carry. A tamer's weapon is just that, pixelcrack with set stats that don't benefit from anything. You can increase their power with scrolls, but if you need to switch between 'weapons' you need to scroll and train those up as well.
I'd like more balance. I want what I wear or carry to impact my weapon. I want my armor sets to benefit my pet's stats or attack power, like a melee or magic user's weapons impact their weapons of choice. I want the slayers I carry to affect my pet. I'd like to see my pet getting bonusses from things I carry. It makes for a more even playing field.
I need more reliability when I command my pet. I need my pet to stay at my side and defend me at all cost. If I'm being attacked by a mob, I want my pet to be able to grab aggro from me so that I can get away from big hitting things. I want my pet to be smarter, currently they're dumb, do stupid stuff and cause my tamers death lots of times.
I told someone on another forum that I do the massive dragon nests with my tamer/t-hunter. They said to kill the spawn fast, do them with your melee toon. I don't have one. But I feel like I need one. I don't want to feel like I need one, I'd like a more even playing field instead. I feel the investment in Taming/Lore/Veterinary/Magic should compare to a melee's investment in Weapon Skill/Tactics/Anatomy/Healing.
Anyway, that's my rant for now, on with the show. Be nice if this would be seen by someone who could say something about the terrible lack of control. Cheers.

The bard laughs whilst crying and slowly walks away cursing 160 barding difficulty and non bardable creatures.

The music of bard’s falls upon deaf ears at BS.

keven2002 · November 6

I agree that having a pet listen a little better (ie better AI) should definitely be something they look at. I hate when I tell my pet to attack something and it decides to switch to something else.

Other than that though I don't think tamers really need any other boost...we get pets with 900hp and massive damage outputs and all we need to do is stand back with consume damage running. Can they do all content faster? No, but that's the way the game should work... it isn't a 1 template fits all type of game. I feel like this is the first event in a while where I really have wanted to use my sampire... but my sampire almost always dies during the matriarch bc I get hit with a flame wall (or 2) along with a few fireballs and I'm toast... now my tamer has zero issue bc the pet walks in does its thing and then comes back with 75%+ HP every time.

KroDuK · November 7

@LeBaiton I was following you untill what I was thinking became reality..

As I was reading I was like.. when did I miss the news.. when does a tamer stopped being the tanking class?? Then boom SA.. streamlining Sappire into a Sampires Army..

You were mentionning slayer a lot.. I was like what he's saying about control can be valid.. personally I find the pet is WAY easier to control than it was.. It was spicy before.. now as soon my CU would be partially trained.. it was bland.

But yeah.. u had some point but as u kept mentionning slayer.. I was like if u give that guy an even broken Sampie he's gonna be happy.. Next time be more subtile.. I was not thinking u'd drop the bomb that quickly.

PS: I stop reading at the request, but yeah, i'm sure it was never answered.. I was thinking; wait wait wait.. why is he not mentionning anything else than his "weapon" and slayers.. Tamer120, Lore120, Vet120= 360/720 . . .

Edit: Also, wait for the Sims pet pack incoming in 2026.. pretty sure they gonna include the famous NL pet control, the 20 of y'all talked about, for free on Prodo to celebrate it. *rolling eyes*

keven2002 said:

but my sampire almost always dies during the matriarch bc I get hit with a flame wall (or 2) along with a few fireballs and I'm toast... now my tamer has zero issue bc the pet walks in does its thing and then comes back with 75%+ HP every time.

This..

Thorakh · November 12

Might I offer a very powerful build for you, and that is Archer, Tactics, Chivalry, Resist, Taming, Animal Lore, Vet

Thorakh · November 12

I went with 120 Archer, 90 Tactics, 90 Chivalry, 90 Resist, 120 Taming, 110 Animal Lore, 100 Vet

popps · November 12

Thorakh said:

Might I offer a very powerful build for you, and that is Archer, Tactics, Chivalry, Resist, Taming, Animal Lore, Vet

Archery 120

Tactics 120

Chivalry ???

Resist 120

Taming 120

Animal Lore 120

Veterinary 120

Aside from Chivalry, those 6 skills get to the cap of 120.

This means, that in order to have a decent level of Chivalry, it would be necessary to imbue at least 3 skills (15 skill points per skill) on both the ring and bracelet so that Chivalry could at least be 90.0 .

Since there is no ranged way of healing the pet (no meditation either, only the chivalry close wounds but regaining mana I think will be an issue also because of the mana needed to use specials for Archery damage...) this means that the pet will need to be used as a Tank so that the Archer, staying near by to vet the pet to heal damage, will be able to...

Yet, what about scenarios like the current Event whereas the Dungeon is usually full of spawn ?

The rest of the spawn might target the Archer... other then using an invisibility potion (have to disarm the weapon unless Balanced to drink the potion), I see no other way for the Tamer/Archer to get invisible so that all spawn would aggro the pet.

I see this as a Template for single Targets or places with low spawn density, not where there is a lot of surrounding spawn which respawns all the time... too much risk of the tamer/archer to be targeted which would then mess up the situation...

Also, assuming that the pet can be mounted, this means that the Tamer/Archer will be on foot all the time or have to use a slot 4 pet (but less powerful) and use a separate ethereal mount...

It would be interesting to hear in what spawn circumstances you have found this template to be viable and hear more details on the tactics that you use when playing it.

Thank you.

Thorakh · November 12

I only use this template for tamer, I find mage very weak compared to this build and with 4/6 Chivalry you will survive a lot more than a mage could ever dream of. You cannot fight if you are hidden and the only time I have to hide is Shadowguard bar, so I keep a few invisibility potions on that.. It is a very very strong build and very tanky with fast heals and cures. You will be amazed how strong it is. And its 7 skills, 120 Archery or 100 then use the Archer 20 Hunter Headdress, 90 Tactics(100 with Soldier of Medal), 90 Chiv(105 with the Chiv Gloves), 90 Resist(100 with Agesis of Grace) is just for resisting paralyze, 120 Taming, 110 Animal Lore and finally 100 Vet to res pet. 120 Taming and 110 Lore gives you 99% pet control chance. In short, 120 Archery, 90 Tactics, 90 Resist Magic, 90 Chivalry, 120 Taming, 110 Animal Lore, 100 Vet. I always get the spawn skull for most damage at champ spawn and I'm usually last to die. And Sampires usually go down at event before I do. You wont need meditation because your bow has mana leech, I always have mana and rarely run out. And I kill, cure and heal so fast being on foot is not an issue and do really really good at event. 4/6 Chiv is a must, 3/6 will not cut it. Basically the tactic I use is to kill not hide, become the hunter not the hunted.

KroDuK · November 12

Thorakh said:

I went with 120 Archer, 90 Tactics, 90 Chivalry, 90 Resist, 120 Taming, 110 Animal Lore, 100 Vet

Love the build but if you're using GM resist only against paralyse, i'd rather use a trap box to optimize the build.. specially with chiv to support.. your Resist is only QoL in those term.

Back then the way to go for tamer was mage weapon.. Lots of good memories using mage weapon bow.

Urge · November 12

I still run a -mage bow. Elem slayer does quite nicely for free damage.

Thalon · November 14

The OP mentioned they are a treasure hunter tamer. I did not see mention of template specifics by the OP. Tame/ Lore /Vet / Cart / Locks/ Traps is six skills. Magery for seven perhaps? Not much to work with unless you trade out some skills like cartography and lockpicking with Soulstones.

I have three difference tamers I've used, each has strengths and weaknesses:

Archer with chivarly. My first tamer I have had since Samurai Empire release and still performs well. Extra damage to help pet from a distance, but archer gets whalloped if I stay too close to the action.

Mystic tamer I made after Time of Legends and the animal training upgrades to taming released. Casting spells puts out less direct damage than the archer but the template keeps pet alive longer with Cleansing Wind to heal the pet at distance.

Warrior tamer is my newest, started on New Legacy. Sword, Tactics, Heal, Anatomy. I haven't played much since transfer to the new shard, I am worried that without parry they won't survive alongside their animal companions up close with big monsters. Might be a good idea to try Aura of Nausea or Sticky Skin pets. Another flaw is can't use bandages on myself and the pet at the same time, but I managed well on New Legacy so I think it'll work on other Shards.

Pawain · November 14

Did this turn into Archer tamer?

Here is mine.
Because most of the event armor has no Mana regen, he only is wearing 2 event pieces. SSI Epps and Vambraces.

Image: https://forum.uo.com/uploads/editor/cx/i9eh8uppugr8.png

When I looked at the picture I noticed some skills points missing. I had 3.8 points in a random skill.

Thalon · November 14

Pawain said:

Did this turn into Archer tamer?

Well, the OP was talking about being unsatisfied with the performance of their T-hunter tamer. The OP, LeBaiton suggested a complete game-mechanics rewrite so that equipment on the character also affects the stats of the tamed pet and improvement in pet AI (something I've seen requested many times over the years). Most responses have been tamer builds that fight rather than Treasure-Hunt, which is a good solution as I don't see a tamer/pet game-mechanics rewrite in our futures.

If LeBaiton wants to be more effective changing his template seems the way to go. Two solutions I see are::

1) Soulstone in more combat oriented skills after decoding the T-map to the nest...in which case Archer with Chiv seems most popular.

2) Switch to a different T-hunter build entirely, one without taming. My current T-hunter is a mage build Magery/ EvalInt/ Meditation/ Inscription plus Cart / Lock / Traps. I wouldn't recommend as he struggles on higher level maps since I don't have a good collection of Slayer spellbooks to rely on. I have heard others recommend a Mystic based caster, and I'm training one up, but still only on Level 1 chests so can't vouch for effectiveness.

Pawain · November 14

Doing nests would help decide what type template you would like to try for T maps.

You can concentrate on the killing part and see which style you prefer, then modify to add the T hunting skills in.

For Tmaps I used a guy with Swords and magery, cast EVs invis G Heals are all I used magery for. It probably was not the efficient template but I could do T Maps with him.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

I'm starting to despise my 'weapon' of choice...

Comments