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Why a Rogue needs to use the Invisibility spell/potion rather then a Smoke Bomb ?

poppspopps Posts: 4,329
edited November 6 in General Discussions

I do not understand the Smoke Bomb timer after using a skill... it forces to use the invisibility spell or an invisibility potion...

For example, if the Hidden Chest that (finally) spawns a stealable Effigy is, unfortunately, in a place with a heavy spawn around, waiting the whopping 10 seconds after the steal (or attempt to steal if failed) before being able to use a smoke bomb to hide means sure death... of course that then Rogues have to either use the invisibility spell or an invisibility potion...

To me, though, it makes no sense since the smoke bomb, for example, is usable while in combat yet, using a fighting skill in the fight does not count against using the smoke bomb after the skill check for 10 seconds but, using Detect Hidden or Stealing or another skill, counts, and one has to wait the timer before a smoke bomb can be used.

It basically makes using a smoke bomb for a Rogue pointless, to my opinion...

I think that the timer when using a smoke bomb should go away in order to make it usable by a Rogue template. Otherwise, players will keep using the invisibility spell or potion.

Comments

  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 3,280
    Stop no literally you have to stop when using a smoke bomb now I know getting revealed surrounded by monsters is terrifying but stop when using the bomb then move slowly (this is where never run toggle most needed)
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,329
    Grimbeard said:
    Stop no literally you have to stop when using a smoke bomb now I know getting revealed surrounded by monsters is terrifying but stop when using the bomb then move slowly (this is where never run toggle most needed)
    Not sure I understand what you say...

    I do not move when using a smoke bomb, I stay still and only after having gone invisible I start moving... the problem is not staing still, the problem is the timer of 10 seconds after using a skill (other then a combat skill,mind you...) like for example stealing or detect hidden...

    It is not possible to wait 10 seconds being targeted by the surrounding spawn before being able to use the smoke bomb... that's why the invisibility spell or an invisibility potion works better...

    But this should not be, to my opinion, a Rogue should be able to use a smoke bomb... yet, in order for this to be possible, the 10 seconds timer should go away like it is for any combat skill whereas they can use a smoke bomb even a split second after having used the combat skill...

  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 3,280
    You're a rogue not a racer? It's meant to be slow 
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,329
    edited November 6
    Grimbeard said:
    You're a rogue not a racer? It's meant to be slow 
    Well... if the surrounding spawn was also slow and took 10 seconds before targeting the visible Rogue then there would be no problem to be a slow Rogue and wait for the smoke bomb 10 seconds timer to lapse before being able to get invisible... unfortnately, the surrounding spawn does not care about the Rogue's "slowessness" and, as soon as the Rogue becomes visible, they start, all of them, mind you, to target the Rogue hitting him/her, casting spells on him/her, pounding the Rogue as if there was no tomorrow...

    I am afraid that, if there is too much surrounding spawn, the Rogue cannot afford before getting invisible... it is necessary to get invisible right away... hence, no smoke bombs but use the invisibility spell (with Protection, mind you) or using an invisibility potion...

    But this, especially for a Rogue, to my opinion is dead wrong and it should not be. It makes way more sense, at least to me, that a Rogue used a smoke bomb rather then the invisibility spell or an invisibility potion...

    Since combat skills are made an exception for the smoke bomb timer and, infact, the ninja can use a smoke bomb while in combat, why not make this exception also for the Rogue using the Stealing and the Detect Hidden skills or, better even, just get rid of the smoke bomb 10 seconds timer althougether ?

  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 3,280
    To clarify if you are stopping and using bomb there is zero need to cast a spell 
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,329
    Grimbeard said:
    To clarify if you are stopping and using bomb there is zero need to cast a spell 
    Try performing a steal or use the Detect Hidden skill and then, use a smoke bomb right way.

    You will get the following message : "You must wait a few seconds before you can use that item".

    That item being, the smoke bomb... and guess why ? Because of the 10 seconds delay timer after having used the Stealing or Detect Hidden skill...

    As we know, using the Stealing skill makes the thief visible, right ? So, hiding back, right away, especially in a heavy spawm area, becomes fundamental... unfortunately, the 10 seconds smoke bomb timer makes it not possible before they lapse... hence, the Rogue resorts to using the Insibility spell/potion (which can be used right away, without having to wait 10 seconds...) rather then the smoke bomb... and I see this, expecially for a Rogue template, as dead wrong... to my opinion, it should be way more natural for a Rogue to use a smoke bomb rather then the invisibility spell or potion.

  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 3,280
    Unfortunately your inability to play correctly doesn't merit changes to something that's working 
  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 1,543
    The thing is, and many will disagree with me on this. But smoke bombs aren't a rogue's resource, they're a ninja resource. I find invis spell much more useful because you can keep casting it when revealed repeatedly and still manage to get away without dying. I've cast it as many as 3 times before I managed to stay hidden and stealth away.
  • RockoRocko Posts: 248
    Petra_Fyde said:
    The thing is, and many will disagree with me on this. But smoke bombs aren't a rogue's resource, they're a ninja resource. I find invis spell much more useful because you can keep casting it when revealed repeatedly and still manage to get away without dying. I've cast it as many as 3 times before I managed to stay hidden and stealth away.
    This.
    Former content creator for UO Stratics.
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,329
    edited November 6
    The thing is, and many will disagree with me on this. But smoke bombs aren't a rogue's resource, they're a ninja resource. I find invis spell much more useful because you can keep casting it when revealed repeatedly and still manage to get away without dying. I've cast it as many as 3 times before I managed to stay hidden and stealth away.
    That's what my point is...

    That the invisibility spell (or potion) wins hands down, for a Rogue character, versus the use of smoke bombs... hands down...

    As your gameplay experience shows, to me this shows it is a fact, and, to my opinion, an "unfortunate" fact because, for a Rogue, a smoke bomb should instead be a more natural resource to get invisible rather then using the invisibility spell or potion.

    Sure, the smoke bomb is a Ninja thing yet, Ninjas and Rogues have one thing in common, they live and thrive in the hiding... stealthing, being always in the dark, invisible...

    This is why I say that, game wise, Rogues should be more naturaly incline to use smoke bombs and not the invisibility spell or potion.

    Yet, because of the smoke bomb timer, this is not.

    I happen to think that this should be corrected so that Rogues could more naturally be incline to use smoke bombs rather then the invisibility spell or potion.


  • Victim_Of_SiegeVictim_Of_Siege Posts: 2,543
    Here's what Google sez, and it aligns with what most are saying. we don't need a change for Ninjer smoke bombs, Thieves don't use em. 

    Google sez: Smoke bombs are far more strongly associated with ninjas than with thieves. Their use is deeply rooted in historical and pop culture depictions of ninjas as stealthy operatives who vanish in a puff of smoke.

    Why Ninjas and Smoke Bombs Go Hand-in-Hand

    • Historical usage: Real ninjas (shinobi) in feudal Japan used smoke bombs as diversionary tools to escape or confuse enemies. These were often crafted from hollowed-out eggshells filled with gunpowder and irritants.

    • Tactical advantage: Ninjas used them both defensively (to flee when discovered) and offensively (to blind or disorient targets before striking).

    • Psychological effect: The sudden disappearance in smoke contributed to the myth that ninjas had supernatural powers, reinforcing their mysterious image.

    • Pop culture reinforcement: From anime like Naruto to video games like Ninja Gaiden, smoke bombs are a staple of the ninja toolkit, often shown as tools of stealth and surprise.

    What About Thieves?

    While thieves in fiction might occasionally use smoke bombs, especially in modern heist or spy stories, this is more of a borrowed trope from ninja lore. Thieves are more commonly associated with lockpicks, disguises, or sleight-of-hand than with theatrical escapes.

    So if you're crafting a character or scene and want to lean into the classic imagery, smoke bombs scream "ninja"—not "thief."



    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 1,355
    edited 10:01AM
    LOL,

    Grim had me foul, I really thought he was higher troll tier for a while. 
    His problem is not because he's running instead of walking!

    @popps Are you asking why you cannot use hiding skill after performing stuff like; stealing action/skill?
    If there is a delay between a stealing action and the moment a thief can perfrom hide action, there is a VERY good reason.

    Also, what Petra and i'm sure (maybe) the AI of Victim are saying make sense, but it's not the point he's making.. his problem is not with the maximize/enhance hiding; smoke bomb itself.. it's with hiding.

    He just did not know what Smoke Bomb was really doing.. using his HIDING skill.
    Personally, i'm a coward so indeed I have magery and smoke bomb is only for emergencies.

    Edit: if u read Petra.. DROP THE PROTECTION! It's a crutch, for that build. You keep proving me right.
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?

    Leave attended paying accounts alone, these people go thru a lot of trouble to automate the game.

    It’s comical to me you are so frightened of somehow bod scripters get some sort of advantage.

    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 1,543
    KroDuK said:

    Edit: if u read Petra.. DROP THE PROTECTION! It's a crutch, for that build. You keep proving me right.
    You play you, I'll play me. I don't like to fizzle when I want to cast invis. That way only leads to grey robes.
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