Quick update from the weekend please?

keven2002 · December 16

It looks like going out of town for the weekend put me behind on quite a bit of drama, it's a bit hard to piece together in the various threads so can someone please give me the quick cliff-notes version?

Sounds like the Devs did something which has blocked the O client which has apparently done wonders for the botting problem (love it!) but also has some people sour grapes?

Sounds like Cookie is quitting the game now (possibly over the above)?

What else am I missing?!

Skett · December 16

it ("O") mostly killed PvP and it also stopped a few botters but botting continues on

it help with lag on atl for awhile as well but people were complaining last night the lag was back idk I dont play atl only shop there

some people have already quit and others are selling of there accounts and items and then quitting

lots of back and fourth arguing as usual on what needs to be done / or fixed to better uo

Im liking the webuo but its lacking still as its in beta and the devs working on it are all on vacation and do it on there free time when they get back in January

oh and The ec is still ugly

Venom · December 16

Since the last patch, I have yet to see anyone obviously botting - no stacks of toons acting like a weed eater through towns. I've only even run the original UO client, so nothing has changed for me (I'm a fairly casual player now, not even setting up complete macros).

I play Catskills, and there seems like a significant drop in players. I *think* the argument against shutting out all of the people use the illegal client was that some, at least from what I read with Cookie, claimed the scripts they apparently used could be recreated in the EC -- which others claimed was not accurate. I also believe Cookie was arguing such scripts in question were largely just for quality of life and not crossing the greyish threshold into an unfair advantage (cheating).

Ultimately, I think it'll be up to the metrics the devs can see for how this shakes out. The devs, as I understand, she didn't do a mass banning. I get the feeling it's a significant number of accounts that we're using this illegal client from when I've logged in and done the invasion. I do wonder if there is a significant loss in paid accounts what will happen, as this isn't a charity. I also wonder if true quality of life scripts could essentially be implemented into the web client to appease that group. Those looking for an unfair advantage will almost certainly continue to do so.

Anyways, my perception of what's going on .

Oh, there were some claims of massive increases in sanctum drops, but my experience has been that it's a bit more than before -- but I chalk it up to fewer players.

Venom · December 16

To Cookie's point about disconnecting randomly, if I have two clients running on the same PC (paid accounts), only one of them will randomly get disconnected.

Skett · December 16

a gazelle is looking at a bowl of popcorn

Also seen this in a discord channel thought id share it here....

username · December 16

Skett said:

it also stopped a few botters but botting continues on

The tl;dr on this is that the '220 second timer' that Cookie referenced is still long enough for them to run their bots, fight a few skeletons, then relog every ~4 minutes when they get DC'd. Apparently there's a function built in to the client that helps with that. Gee wonder why these clients were banned. I was following a few of the bot 24/7 sampires around long enough on Atlantic and they stop for 10s at a time every 3-5 minutes, definitely automated relogging after being kicked. Plus the discord was talking about doing this to get around the DCing. The timer needs to be lowered and add a check before login/char select.

username · December 16

Venom said:

To Cookie's point about disconnecting randomly, if I have two clients running on the same PC (paid accounts), only one of them will randomly get disconnected.

I have had characters in the game all weekend, mostly idle, for hours on end and was never once DC'd. Client fully patched?

Skett · December 16

Its true I keep getting DC as well nothing but straight cc or webcuo

Fenriswolf · December 16

Cookie said:

The fact is, if you disconnected 70% of the playerbase - ANY 70%, the lag would be fixed. If we disconnected all the NON Orion users, assuming a ratio of 50/50, the lag would be fixed. Then we could sit and blame the Non Bot users for causing all the prior lag. The fact is, Freeshards handle a lot more Bots, and this does not give them issues.

Do I sound pissed off? Yes. Good.

No, you can simply login with the approved clients, or am i missing something?

Cookie · December 16

Fenriswolf said:

Cookie said:

No, you can simply login with the approved clients, or am i missing something?

Approved clients do not really have what pvpers need to pvp, speed, vision, and movement being some things, along with many other quality of life points - and in some cases even scripts in my opinion.

WebCUO is a good start, but needs more, it is a bit pre-mature to cut off half the playerbase, without giving them a good enough place to go.
I personally, cannot go that far backwards.

username · December 16

Cookie said:
Approved clients do not really have what pvpers need to pvp, speed, vision, and movement being some things, along with many other quality of life points - and in some cases even scripts in my opinion.

WebCUO is a good start, but needs more, it is a bit pre-mature to cut off half the playerbase, without giving them a good enough place to go.
I personally, cannot go that far backwards.

Read: I cannot get an unfair advantage against my foes, therefore, I am mad. How dare UO put me on an even playing field as my opponent! I can't stand to lose a fight in a 30 year old game, my fragile ego!

Fenriswolf · December 16

Cookie said:
Approved clients do not really have what pvpers need to pvp, speed, vision, and movement being some things, along with many other quality of life points - and in some cases even scripts in my opinion.

WebCUO is a good start, but needs more, it is a bit pre-mature to cut off half the playerbase, without giving them a good enough place to go.
I personally, cannot go that far backwards.

maybe allow them in Felucca then? Wont affect me at all, as i dont pvp and also only ever go to Felucca either to buy stuff, or to do the rare treasure map that is there

In fact just let the client that was banned run in Felucca and not trammel

Cookie · December 16

username said:

Cookie said:
Approved clients do not really have what pvpers need to pvp, speed, vision, and movement being some things, along with many other quality of life points - and in some cases even scripts in my opinion.

WebCUO is a good start, but needs more, it is a bit pre-mature to cut off half the playerbase, without giving them a good enough place to go.
I personally, cannot go that far backwards.

Read: I cannot get an unfair advantage against my foes, therefore, I am mad. How dare UO put me on an even playing field as my opponent! I can't stand to lose a fight in a 30 year old game, my fragile ego!

I've never had an unfair advantage, as they all used the same client as myself, quite often with far more automation.

Your argument holds no water.

Why do you maintain such falsehoods?

Skett · December 16

whats being lost here is a compromise the players demand more than the outdated cc or the ugly bugged ec its an even playing field when all or most pvpers / players are using the other client

its the botting thats the issue the devs have with the other client (it seems)

it doesn't matter how much you talk to some people they will never open their narrow mindedness and die on their own ignorant cross it seems (im sure we are all guilty of that to some extent)

Cookie · December 16

Fenriswolf said:

Cookie said:
Approved clients do not really have what pvpers need to pvp, speed, vision, and movement being some things, along with many other quality of life points - and in some cases even scripts in my opinion.

WebCUO is a good start, but needs more, it is a bit pre-mature to cut off half the playerbase, without giving them a good enough place to go.
I personally, cannot go that far backwards.

maybe allow them in Felucca then? Wont affect me at all, as i dont pvp and also only ever go to Felucca either to buy stuff, or to do the rare treasure map that is there

In fact just let the client that was banned run in Felucca and not trammel

Thank you for a good solution.

@Kyronix

username · December 16

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:
Approved clients do not really have what pvpers need to pvp, speed, vision, and movement being some things, along with many other quality of life points - and in some cases even scripts in my opinion.

WebCUO is a good start, but needs more, it is a bit pre-mature to cut off half the playerbase, without giving them a good enough place to go.
I personally, cannot go that far backwards.

Read: I cannot get an unfair advantage against my foes, therefore, I am mad. How dare UO put me on an even playing field as my opponent! I can't stand to lose a fight in a 30 year old game, my fragile ego!

I've never had an unfair advantage, as they all used the same client as myself, quite often with far more automation.

Your argument holds no water.

Why do you maintain such falsehoods?

Is that so? When I travel to fel, you just know that I'm not cheating and you quickly log off, swap to the CC, and give a fair fight?

Image: https://media.tenor.com/N2JDQPy4DtYAAAAe/meme-kid.png

username · December 16

Cookie said:

Fenriswolf said:

Cookie said:
Approved clients do not really have what pvpers need to pvp, speed, vision, and movement being some things, along with many other quality of life points - and in some cases even scripts in my opinion.

WebCUO is a good start, but needs more, it is a bit pre-mature to cut off half the playerbase, without giving them a good enough place to go.
I personally, cannot go that far backwards.

maybe allow them in Felucca then? Wont affect me at all, as i dont pvp and also only ever go to Felucca either to buy stuff, or to do the rare treasure map that is there

In fact just let the client that was banned run in Felucca and not trammel

Thank you for a good solution.
@ Kyronix

@Kyronix knows better

Cookie · December 16

username said:

Cookie said:

Fenriswolf said:

Cookie said:
Approved clients do not really have what pvpers need to pvp, speed, vision, and movement being some things, along with many other quality of life points - and in some cases even scripts in my opinion.

WebCUO is a good start, but needs more, it is a bit pre-mature to cut off half the playerbase, without giving them a good enough place to go.
I personally, cannot go that far backwards.

maybe allow them in Felucca then? Wont affect me at all, as i dont pvp and also only ever go to Felucca either to buy stuff, or to do the rare treasure map that is there

In fact just let the client that was banned run in Felucca and not trammel

Thank you for a good solution.
@ Kyronix

@ Kyronix knows better

So that happens a lot in Felucca, I completely admit.

Guess what, it is a sandbox game - we can deal with it, if we are bothered, I regularly kill them every single day.

We don't need to go to forums, and be all passive aggressive toxic about it. We just deal with it, it is part of our playstyle, everyone had fun.

username · December 16

Cookie said:

username said:

Is that so? When I travel to fel, you just know that I'm not cheating and you quickly log off, swap to the CC, and give a fair fight?

You have never been to Felucca, because you are clearly a coward and a pussy. I say that, based on your behaviour re Orion Discord etc, you don't have the guts.

Having said that - yes, we know who everyone is, and we can quickly identify who is who, and what they are using, we can see it. We then usually get talking, and they find a pvp guild home, to learn how to play properly.

I can honestly understand if no guild would want you, to me, you are a reject that no pvp guild would want in their guild, which would lead to you coming to forums to take revenge like you do.

I've called it, haven't I ?

Surely can't be because there's script kiddies such as yourself who have a fragile ego and can't stand to lose a fight without cheating IN A 30 YEAR OLD GAME.

username · December 16

Cookie said: we can deal with it
We just deal with it

No need, the devs just dealt with it for you.

Cookie · December 16

username said:

Cookie said: we can deal with it
We just deal with it

No need, the devs just dealt with it for you.

The Devs just killed off half the playerbase.

Did you not read the rest of my extended post?
The bots can still exist, they still have the means.
Ultimately, it is my belief, even Enhanced Client could be used, though I know many disagree with me, or think I misunderstand on that one.

Fenriswolf · December 16

username said:

@ Kyronix knows better

that can also be easily fixed by moving the powerscrolls to Trammel. Im not entirely sure the thinking behind limiting these to a small number of players who like killing each other so they gain a monopoly over one of the most important items in the game? Just make Felucca a free for all facet with no rules which is how it was originally intended and make Trammel the "normal" facet, where everyone plays on a level field

keven2002 · December 16

Let's try to keep this thread civil and not get shut down or edited; I think it's good to talk about what's going on with the game without heavy mod.

Interesting that the Devs did that for the one 3rd party client but seemingly not others. I don't use 3rd party clients so for me this change seems to be great (still need to carve out time to get in game!).

@Cookie - To your point, if the "change" effects 70% of the player base and they can't log in then yes I think lag would automatically be reduced from the decrease in hits to the server. That said, if 70% of the players were really using "O" that's a larger problem in that three quarters of the players felt the need (and didn't feel the fear) of using an "illegal" client.

I will say this on PvP, I do see where you are coming from in that if you PvP the majority certainly do run scripts in 3rd party clients and there is definitely a sense of "I can't play without it" because it's virtually impossible to strongly compete against players auto chugging/trapped box/walling/etc amongst other things. It's the main reason I stopped PvPing many many years ago; it takes the skill out of PvP and makes it not fun for me. The flip side though to Cookie's statement of not going back that far from the upgrades of "O" is that everyone using it (supposedly at least 50% of people) also needs to go backwards so the playing field isn't really all that unleveled... if anything I'd say it's more leveled because there shouldn't "my script runs better than yours" and we go back to more of a pure PvP skill gameset. Personally I'm all for that, even though I'm likely 15-20 years past my peak PvP reflex/coordination heyday.

I get that some scripts are quality of life upgrades, but I'm not sure we can have clients like "O" with only QoL upgrades but no botting/multiboxing/etc scripts. I do think that we can (and should) be able to have some communication with the Dev team to help them understand what the QoL changes we need would be and have those implemented...I think that would be the best of both worlds for me.

Skett · December 16

nvm

Cookie · December 16

Fenriswolf said:

username said:

@ Kyronix knows better

that can also be easily fixed by moving the powerscrolls to Trammel. Im not entirely sure the thinking behind limiting these to a small number of players who like killing each other so they gain a monopoly over one of the most important items in the game? Just make Felucca a free for all haven for people which is how it was originally intended and make Trammel the "normal" facet, where everyone plays on a level field

Risk vs Reward.

Cookie · December 16

keven2002 said:

Let's try to keep this thread civil and not get shut down or edited; I think it's good to talk about what's going on with the game without heavy mod.

Interesting that the Devs did that for the one 3rd party client but seemingly not others. I don't use 3rd party clients so for me this change seems to be great (still need to carve out time to get in game!).

@ Cookie - To your point, if the "change" effects 70% of the player base and they can't log in then yes I think lag would automatically be reduced from the decrease in hits to the server. That said, if 70% of the players were really using "O" that's a larger problem in that three quarters of the players felt the need (and didn't feel the fear) of using an "illegal" client.

I will say this on PvP, I do see where you are coming from in that if you PvP the majority certainly do run scripts in 3rd party clients and there is definitely a sense of "I can't play without it" because it's virtually impossible to strongly compete against players auto chugging/trapped box/walling/etc amongst other things. It's the main reason I stopped PvPing many many years ago; it takes the skill out of PvP and makes it not fun for me. The flip side though to Cookie's statement of not going back that far from the upgrades of "O" is that everyone using it (supposedly at least 50% of people) also needs to go backwards so the playing field isn't really all that unleveled... if anything I'd say it's more leveled because there shouldn't "my script runs better than yours" and we go back to more of a pure PvP skill gameset. Personally I'm all for that, even though I'm likely 15-20 years past my peak PvP reflex/coordination heyday.

I get that some scripts are quality of life upgrades, but I'm not sure we can have clients like "O" with only QoL upgrades but no botting/multiboxing/etc scripts. I do think that we can (and should) be able to have some communication with the Dev team to help them understand what the QoL changes we need would be and have those implemented...I think that would be the best of both worlds for me.

Reasonable points, nothing to add.

I don't care if I get threads shut down, and sometimes I am beyond being civil.

Fenriswolf · December 16

Cookie said:

Fenriswolf said:

username said:

@ Kyronix knows better

that can also be easily fixed by moving the powerscrolls to Trammel. Im not entirely sure the thinking behind limiting these to a small number of players who like killing each other so they gain a monopoly over one of the most important items in the game? Just make Felucca a free for all haven for people which is how it was originally intended and make Trammel the "normal" facet, where everyone plays on a level field

Risk vs Reward.

where is the risk in a program getting a load of powerscrolls for you?? Just move powerscrolls to Trammel and make it harder. There is the risk and the reward and its open to everyone, not just a load of people who like pvping or like using unapproved clients that do most of the work for them? Items like powerscrolls with are a key and core component of the game should be available to everyone without compromise and equally.

I do not like pvp, i never have. I have zero interest in it, and also do not like to be forced to potentially engage in it to get items that should be available to me without this.

Other games have isolated the pvp element into something optional and without detriment to the core players base. Ultima Online seems to reward players that like to pvp, which is probably the smallest percentage of the player base

Im assuming this is because the DEVS like pvp? In which case that is both selfish and detrimental to the game

Cookie · December 16

Fenriswolf said:

Risk vs Reward.

where is the risk in a program getting a load of powerscrolls for you?? Just more powerscrolls to Trammel and make it harder. There is the risk and the reward and its open to everyone, not just a load of people who like pvping or like using unapproved clients that do most of the work for them?

There are competing pvp guilds in Felucca.
We spend our lives taking each other out.
This is where 90% of my pvp comes from.
Powerscrolls still create the best cauldron to start off fights.
(In my opinion, because VvV Rewards are not strong enough - again, I could quite easily re-vamp VvV if Kyronix would like to talk to me).
In general, powerscrolls do not just happen, unless it's a Bot or a sneaky Blue in off-peak time.
Move powerscrolls to Trammel, and the game becomes more stale. I know right now, you are feeling it, because many hued Nightmares, and cuddly Zombie bears are being created, and no-one is doing powerscrolls because of the event. This is just the cycle. When the event stops, the PvP guilds will do spawns again, IF there are any pvpers left.

Fenriswolf · December 16

i still think isolating pvp into something optional is better, give different rewards to players that like to pvp, like they do in other games, dont give them core items that are integral to the game and create a monopoly and at the same time potentially force players into something they inherently just do not like...

If you are worried about losing income from it, then give them special mounts, or pvp specific weapons or other things as a reward for doing something relating to that in Felucca that you can sell etc etc

They could easily develop a big list of Pvp specific items you can only get from champ spawns in Felucca, such as special gruesome masks, Massive war banners that attach to your mount, special skeletal mounts or warhorses, titles etc etc

Venom · December 16

username said:

Venom said:

To Cookie's point about disconnecting randomly, if I have two clients running on the same PC (paid accounts), only one of them will randomly get disconnected.

I have had characters in the game all weekend, mostly idle, for hours on end and was never once DC'd. Client fully patched?

Should be. If course, my PC is beyond end of life and has some hardware issues -- so it could be that, too

keven2002 · December 16

Update from today... looks like Cookie got hit with the ban stick here on the forums.

This code change from last week has all kinds of things going on lol. I'm going to try to hop in the game later today and hopefully enjoy some room to breathe on ATL while doing the event. I haven't looked this forward to doing an event on ATL for quite some time.

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Quick update from the weekend please?

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