Enhanced Client vs Classic.

KroDuK · December 14

And I just want to put that here.. on topic and very funny:

Image: https://forum.uo.com/uploads/editor/5s/svtb3376gwvr.png

Rhel · December 14

Cookie said:

Rhel said:

Cookie said:

loop said:

Cookie said:

loop said:

Cookie said:

Hi Cookie,

No judgment from me. I just don't think this thread is really about EC vs. CC,

It is directly about what EC vs CC can do.

I gave a direct example. Purely EC Script vs CC non Script.

This is what led to all future (now past) issues.

I have heard, they are planning to upgrade CC, that is fantastic, why would you cut short CC players right now though, before they have a proper option?

You drew a comparison between what you can do in EC Lua vs. what you can do in JavaScript with another client. However, the context of the other client is that it permits extensive automation.

I used to think conversations about the clients were in good faith, but ever since Broadsword authorized Web CUO, which gives players the FPS, containers, and 2D art that they wanted, I'm not so sure.

There is a feature gap between EC and CC, which is by design. You can use the EC if you want. The trade off is that it's buggy and ugly.

But the WebCUO still does not allow so much useful functionality. Again - I have personally requested a specific PvP Options Tab for PvPers - I even gave you the very clear examples in a previous post. It is great it fixes 2 major issues, it does not go far enough, and they are restricted in going far enough - I have requested the Devs move the bar.

And yes, I have always admitted, I like to script, I like to customise, I can fill in the gaps in the game myself where it has flaws, that is the main point of all of this.

The endgame, for players who have achieved everything, is customisation.
As shown with the Rogue example I gave in another post. Is that cheating?
Instead of the Detect Hidden message appearing in the bottom left of the screen and giving me a crick in my neck, I used a script to put it in Red, in the centre of my screen.
I then made a post, and said to the Devs, this would be a real Quality of Life improvement in the game. It took me 10 minutes to script it in - I am sure they could do it fairly easily.
Is that cheating, or Quality of Life? It was actually to help my own personal health.
And MANY customisations are in fact about maintaining health of a player - for example, less clicking, the volume of clicking in Classic, can genuinely give RSI - it has to be in everyones interests, to reduce volume of Clicking.

Current situation in a nutshell.

A. Heal friendly automatically with script in EC - Is ok, not cheating.
B. Heal friendly automatically in CC - not possible.
C. Heal Friendly automatically with script in CC graphic client - is Illegal.

Can you see how INCONSISTENT those scenarios are?
Each 3 of those statements is absolute fact.

Don't misrepresent the EC script. That script doesn't do any automated healing.

It only targets an injured friendly. Additional input has to be made by the player for any additional action such as to greater heal, heal or cure.

Thank you for the minor adjustment in my terminology.

Now deal with the inconsistency, rather than brushing over it all the time.

You sound very defensive.

It's a major adjustment and you continue to misrepresent that macro, claiming it auto heals when it clearly doesn't. Maybe your son can explain that all the EC macro does is target an injured friendly?

I'll continue to correct you for however long it takes you to stop falsely claiming it auto heals.

Also not defensive at all, I just don't want people who don't understand coding to be misinformed.

You seem rather defensive though when all I'm doing is correcting your misinformation.

I will agree with the inconsistency. CC sucks for QOL, EC is slightly better, but the script capabilities of the illegal client are ridiculous, and it deserved to be stopped.

Moving forward I hope they add the ability for CC players to also target injured allies, and then manually make a decision about their next action, just like EC players.

Cookie · December 14

KroDuK said:

And I just want to put that here.. on topic and very funny:

There is no inconsistency from me.

I said people do it, I am aware of the scripts (which I have proved) - I do not do it myself.

I have given very clear examples of what I use, and what I think is genuine QoL.

Cookie · December 14

Rhel said:

It's a major adjustment and you continue to misrepresent that macro, claiming it auto heals when it clearly doesn't. Maybe your son can explain that all the EC macro does is target an injured friendly?

I'll continue to correct you for however long it takes you to stop falsely claiming it auto heals.

Also not defensive at all, I just don't want people who don't understand coding to be misinformed.

You seem rather defensive though when all I'm doing is correcting your misinformation.

I will agree with the inconsistency. CC sucks for QOL, EC is slightly better, but the script capabilities of the illegal client are ridiculous, and it deserved to be stopped.

Moving forward I hope they add the ability for CC players to also target injured allies, and then manually make a decision about their next action, just like EC players.

Fine, I'm going to leave the conversation, I believe I have been reasonable, and put all my points across as clearly as I can.

If people want to muddy the waters, because they have an agenda, that is down to them, I cannot hope to fight against that, and I do not need to.

I have put it out there, what will happen, will happen now. You can disbelieve me, I have nothing to prove to you, and I do not want to.

KroDuK · December 14

Yet u come here; in the Original Post u complain about the fact EC could make "auto heal"

In this post i was crying cuz my first PvP encounter since ~2009.. I had these scrubs clearly doing illegal auto chicken heal..
You came and pretty much told me.. STFU and git gud.. not as good as me, it's impossible.. but at least try and stop crying.

And yet, here we are..

Cookie said:
If people want to muddy the waters, because they have an agenda, that is down to them, I cannot hope to fight against that, and I do not need to.

Like u did in my PvP 2024 post? Clearly telling me to start using illegal client?
That type of agenda??

Cookie · December 14

KroDuK said:

Yet u come here; in the Original Post u complain about the fact EC could make "auto heal"

In this post i was crying cuz my first PvP encounter since ~2009.. I had the srub clearly doing illegal auto chicken heal..
You came and pretty much told me.. STFU and git good.. not as good as me, it's impossible.. but at least try and stop crying.

I was using 1 simple example, to show the fact that Enhanced Client can script in .lua.
It could have been anything.
What I wanted to do, was line up side by side, 2 almost identical scripts, one from the legal client, one from the illegal client, to show the inconsistency.

In terms of real PvP - my original comment to you stands, as I do not use this, and would have beaten them anyway. That is a different topic, to showing players that Enhanced Client has scripting options whereas Classic Client does not. And the illegal client does, but everyone judges that one, when they accept Enhanced, which all gets a bit confusing to me.

KroDuK · December 14

Cookie said:
In terms of real PvP - my original comment to you stands, as I do not use this, and would have beaten them anyway.

From the guy that saying he's quitting the game after christmas if the dev ain't giving him back his little automated wheels on his tiny bicycle..

You prove one thing.. u got no PvP skill nab.. grab your stuff and go home.

Cookie · December 14

KroDuK said:

Cookie said:
If people want to muddy the waters, because they have an agenda, that is down to them, I cannot hope to fight against that, and I do not need to.

Like u did in my PvP 2024 post? Clearly telling me to start using illegal client?
That type of agenda??

You do not stand a chance in hell against Enhanced Client on Classic, I found that out over 15 years.
You could use Enhanced, you could use WebCUO (which did not exist for me, they only gave it to us under extreme pressure).
You could use something else, if you want to maintain CC graphics.
I was not advocating anything - you assumed that.
I was saying, stop complaining. It was more I felt you were targeting the wrong people.

I am saying, you do not stand a chance in hell, I think your posts already confirm this, I did it for 15 years.

Cookie · December 14

KroDuK said:

Cookie said:
In terms of real PvP - my original comment to you stands, as I do not use this, and would have beaten them anyway.

From the guy that saying he's quitting the game after christmas if the dev ain't giving him back his little automated wheels on his tiny bicycle..

You prove one thing.. u got no PvP skill nab.. grab your stuff and go home.

If you plan to stay on Classic, vs Enhanced users, you are about to find out the hard way.

Except this time, it will all be legal.

That is what I went through.

Give it 15 years of that, you will become me.

KroDuK · December 14

Cookie said:
I was not advocating anything - you assumed that.

Image: https://forum.uo.com/uploads/editor/gh/fj8q1roxsx44.png

for the full context: https://forum.uo.com/discussion/14618/pvp-in-2024#latest

I was crying against third party in PvP.. u told me to adapt.. telling me to use illegal third party.

I was like can a mod come and clean my post from this promotion of illegal third party? One came and shut down my post.

You are full of it!!!

Cookie · December 14

KroDuK said:

I was crying against third party in PvP.. u told me to adapt.. telling me to use illegal third party.

Enhanced Client is legal. And adaptation. So is WebCUO now. An option I did not have.

I did not tell you to use an illegal 3rd party program. Again, you assumed this.

My personal adaptation, was to use an illegal 3rd party program, because I wanted to play in CC. Again, I feel I have been very transparent, and honest about it all, which quite frankly has gone against me quite a lot. But I wanted people to understand where I was coming from.

It is your choice how to adapt, I did not TELL you anything re which client to use, but I did say, you have to adapt, yes, for sure.

KroDuK · December 14

You clearly did.. this is what had my post shutted down.. I was asking the mod to purge your promotion. He did but he also shut down my post.

Image: https://forum.uo.com/uploads/editor/f0/aqdb9xa7vpcb.png

loop · December 14

Cookie said:

loop said:

I don't know that it's reasonable to expect older technology to have the features of newer technology, but as a half-measure you have the CUO web client.

We already know it exists.

Why is everyone STILL pretending it does not, or cannot be done?
You did that to me for 15 years.

Even the CUO has these features, and they have been blocked.

An example for you, I rarely play in Trammel, I went there for an hour last night, I did Yew event for 1 hour. You know what killed it for me, the Tree foliage, so many tree's in Yew, I could not see a single thing?
That is genuine, you may laugh, you may all find that ok - I did not.

I really like to actually see in a game I am playing.

Tree foliage is lovely, but allow an option to toggle it on, or off - that really is a simple thing to do, that would make so many players happy. It isn't just me who thinks like this, you must have all seen billions of screenshots where they remove Tree's to be able to see to play the game.

You can give me Immersion all day long, but some players just want to be able to see.

Needing to consider visual and physical obstacles in the environment makes the game more challenging. Isn't that why you play mostly in Fel -- for the challenge?

Cookie · December 14

Needing to consider visual and physical obstacles in the environment makes the game more challenging. Isn't that why you play mostly in Fel -- for the challenge?

Not being able to see, is not the sort of challenge I want.
It's easy to trot out those lines, but I am more into chess, or football, move, and counter move.

Not being able to see at all, there is no point really, that is not a challenge, that is just not being able to see, to make any decisions at all. I think not being able to see in a game, completely gets rid of the point of it.

I had a fantastic screenshot of me stepping into New Legacy, then I never went in again. I could basically see nothing on my screen, not even my character, due to the amount of tree's and how dark it was.

Cookie · December 14

KroDuK said:

You clearly did.. this is what had my post shutted down.. I was asking the mod to purge your promotion. He did but he also shut down my post.

I mentioned it, I did not advise it.

I think you will find it was your attitude, as well as mine, that got the thread shut down, and yes, it happens to me often, being shut down.

Sort of my point really, I have tried to help, for so long.

KroDuK · December 14

Cookie said:
Not being able to see, is not the sort of challenge I want.

Memory.. map knowledge.. those are part of the stuff that make good PvPer.. same as muscle memory..

The only problem I ever had at this point were those stalagmite (like on piper island).. u remember what route to take but the 2d ISO is.. confusing with those.. So I adapt my route and get fucked over most of the time.. I should have trusted my memory and not what i'm seeing or NOT seeing when it come to those.

Being able to catch a ball without looking at it.. is achieve by high IQ players at the highest tier possible.. same in video game. If u can't feel it/visualize it.. u should die, instead of relying on little automated wheels.

KroDuK · December 14

Cookie said:

KroDuK said:

You clearly did.. this is what had my post shutted down.. I was asking the mod to purge your promotion. He did but he also shut down my post.

I think you will find it was your attitude, as well as mine, that got the thread shut down, and yes, it happens to me often, being shut down.

It's black on white.. you are full of it.. have a nice life bra!

If u ever learn how to PvP.. ping me.. you still can go and play everquest.

Cookie · December 14

@loop I found it, this makes me laugh.
Now this may be everything you want from a game, I respect your playstyle.
For me, this is unplayable.
My character is in there somewhere (stuck), if it is a pretty simple thing to give a toggle to help players see - surely do it, keep everyone happy?
Can we accept here, players may have 2 different viewpoints on this?

Image: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/606743106980675609/1296855397382098965/image.png?ex=675da235&is=675c50b5&hm=d001d608b6db40fe6a8e4846bd6dc0ab9b36c67849d7dfc9041a9295b9553fe6&=

Cookie · December 14

KroDuK said:

Cookie said:

KroDuK said:

You clearly did.. this is what had my post shutted down.. I was asking the mod to purge your promotion. He did but he also shut down my post.

I think you will find it was your attitude, as well as mine, that got the thread shut down, and yes, it happens to me often, being shut down.

It's black on white.. you are full of it.. have a nice life bra!

If u ever learn how to PvP.. ping me.. you still can go and play everquest.

You've shown 1 bit, no proof of what I said, and I cannot remember what I said.

Again, you only ever assumed I was promoting, when I was just trying to be transparent, the mods have a job to do, and unfortunately forum policy is against transparency. This is why it is so hard to discuss, and help make improvements to the game, because I get shut down 90% of the time.

I have also been very consistent with you, in trying to tell you, you make a billion false assumptions. And I believe all of your assumptions about me are incorrect.

loop · December 14

Cookie said:

@ loop I found it, this makes me laugh.
Now this may be everything you want from a game, I respect your playstyle.
For me, this is unplayable.
My character is in there somewhere (stuck), if it is a pretty simple thing to give a toggle to help players see - surely do it, keep everyone happy?
Can we accept here, players may have 2 different viewpoints on this?

I was being cheeky. There's a subtext to your posts that makes me think you're not coming from a place of good faith, even if these sort of accessibility suggestions are perfectly valid. At the top of the thread, you compared the scripting capabilities of EC and other clients, as if to say EC can automate things the way certain others can. Now, hiding foliage is the clincher.

If the EC can automate things extensively, please share. I've been modding the EC for years, and it's a miserable venture. Call me cynical, but I don't trust that if you took the scripting ability from the third-party client and left everything else the same that it would satisfy you.

Cookie · December 14

loop said:

Cookie said:

@ loop I found it, this makes me laugh.
Now this may be everything you want from a game, I respect your playstyle.
For me, this is unplayable.
My character is in there somewhere (stuck), if it is a pretty simple thing to give a toggle to help players see - surely do it, keep everyone happy?
Can we accept here, players may have 2 different viewpoints on this?

I was being cheeky. There's a subtext to your posts that makes me think you're not coming from a place of good faith, even if these sort of accessibility suggestions are perfectly valid. At the top of the thread, you compared the scripting capabilities of EC and other clients, as if to say EC can automate things the way certain others can. Now, hiding foliage is the clincher.

If the EC can automate things extensively, please share. I've been modding the EC for years, and it's a miserable venture. Call me cynical, but I don't trust that if you took the scripting ability from the third-party client and left everything else the same that it would satisfy you.

I am able to give very many reasonable examples, that is all I am doing.
Yet you all manage to dismiss them all. They are all important, they are all relevant, not one over another, just many many similar examples.
I cannot be bothered to do anymore, there is no sub-text. I am not going to share, because call me cynical, it is your faith I question, and many other posters here. I am certainly not here to enhance the Enhanced Client gaming experience that I personally hate. But I do now know people who will bot it, and not bother to play anymore, when they used to play, they cannot stand to actually play Enhanced.

I have also already said, I like scripting. I am able to give many positive examples of it. I don't see a problem. Kids script in Minecraft and ROBLOX all day long, it is where gaming is going. The point is, Classic can be evolved, to be a modern day game. It works, I may script, I also play it heavily. I know of players now, who are just going to full time bot, because they cannot stand the available clients remaining. I am not going to bot, I'm just going to give up.

KroDuK · December 14

loop said:

I was being cheeky. There's a subtext to your posts that makes me think you're not coming from a place of good faith, even if ...

His new approach was so dumb.. i didn't even bother answer.. after I point out his OP was dumb (depending on HIMSELF few months ago).. he went for a dumber approach imo..

He legit went on NL.. the THEME PARK version.. his screenshot just make the immersion way more real/intense without the circle of transparency.. wich make total sense for a theme park.

I legit screenshot a mod saying u cannot post or link about material... (he was promoting what shall not be named telling me to adapt and start using it in PvP on a post I was denouncing it)
And yet he's still in denial.. his nose is full of poo poo and he is still here denying he's the one that has poo poo on the carpet with another approach, when u put his nose in it.

He's not a cheater.. we just inferior being.

Rhel · December 14

Cookie said:

loop said:

Cookie said:

@ loop I found it, this makes me laugh.
Now this may be everything you want from a game, I respect your playstyle.
For me, this is unplayable.
My character is in there somewhere (stuck), if it is a pretty simple thing to give a toggle to help players see - surely do it, keep everyone happy?
Can we accept here, players may have 2 different viewpoints on this?

I was being cheeky. There's a subtext to your posts that makes me think you're not coming from a place of good faith, even if these sort of accessibility suggestions are perfectly valid. At the top of the thread, you compared the scripting capabilities of EC and other clients, as if to say EC can automate things the way certain others can. Now, hiding foliage is the clincher.

If the EC can automate things extensively, please share. I've been modding the EC for years, and it's a miserable venture. Call me cynical, but I don't trust that if you took the scripting ability from the third-party client and left everything else the same that it would satisfy you.

I am able to give very many reasonable examples, that is all I am doing.
Yet you all manage to dismiss them all. They are all important, they are all relevant, not one over another, just many many similar examples.
I cannot be bothered to do anymore, there is no sub-text. I am not going to share, because call me cynical, it is your faith I question, and many other posters here. I am certainly not here to enhance the Enhanced Client gaming experience that I personally hate. But I do now know people who will bot it, and not bother to play anymore, when they used to play, they cannot stand to actually play Enhanced.

I have also already said, I like scripting. I am able to give many positive examples of it. I don't see a problem. Kids script in Minecraft and ROBLOX all day long, it is where gaming is going. The point is, Classic can be evolved, to be a modern day game. It works, I may script, I also play it heavily. I know of players now, who are just going to full time bot, because they cannot stand the available clients remaining. I am not going to bot, I'm just going to give up.

Your examples only seem reasonable to you. You continually claim that the EC can autoheal (it can't) and you claim that you (or your son) can easily write a script that can do everything the illegal client can do e.g. autotarget and auto determine/cast spells based on automatically determined character states like level of health, poison, etc. at the push of one button. I'd still love to see the script and if it can be done, because I believe that's another discussion but also one where the Devs have outlined what can/cannot be done in the EC for modding AND they have control over it to some extent. Something they don't have at all with the illegal client.

You even went further on defending this as an improvement to your health through reducing the number of clicks you have to do for any given action. Clicking a button, and having the program decide your action does not equate to skill. It also gives an extreme unfair advantage against the CC and the EC, but you seem to some how dismiss.

In the screen shot you can use the transparency option around your character to avoid getting stuck in heavy vegetation. Its clear your not using this, so you're not already using the legitimate tools to improve performance and avoid these situation for your character.

You're advocating for the removal of a strategic and tactical option in PvP - hiding/using terrain to your advantage. Would you also like to remove invisibility, stealth, smoke bombs, and hiding from the game? How about dismounting? Seems like you're opting for removing aspects of the game that you as a player cannot overcome.

There is a super easy way to overcome these issues - fight in places that don't have that foliage or buildings. If you're choosing to PK/PvP in a place with lots of vegetation that's on you. Pick your battles better?

I imagine, based on the script from the illegal client you posted at the beginning of this thread, that that illegal client can also automagically target any hostile, whether you can see them or not and attack them at the click of one button. This isn't a legitimate way of overcoming core game design and mechanics such as foliage or hiding behind buildings.

Mariah · December 14

I'm going to lock this, but from my point of view @Cookie has a fundamental misunderstanding of how the EC works. As @loop has tried to tell him, it can't do what he thinks it can.

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Enhanced Client vs Classic.

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