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Nerf Sampires

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  • Lord_NythraxLord_Nythrax Posts: 514
    Grimbeard said:
    I love waiting at dungeon entrance with tamer watching the screaming sampires running 

    I love it when tamers come to this forum and complain that a monster targeted and hit them like it's some kind of outrage.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,405
    Lord_Nythrax said:
    Grimbeard said:
    I love waiting at dungeon entrance with tamer watching the screaming sampires running 

    I love it when tamers come to this forum and complain that a monster targeted and hit them like it's some kind of outrage.
    I don't complain i just find it insane that you believe tamers and ranged fighters never get targeted..
  • LilyGraceLilyGrace Posts: 1,003
    What cracked me up in game (no clue if it’s accurate) was hearing that these new bears can be built so the more damage they do the more they keep themselves healed. So Sampire bears with hidden tamers is good? But Sampire players are bad?
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,289
    edited December 1
    LilyGrace said:
    What cracked me up in game (no clue if it’s accurate) was hearing that these new bears can be built so the more damage they do the more they keep themselves healed. So Sampire bears with hidden tamers is good? But Sampire players are bad?
    We have had Rams since the taming revamp came out. They have Life Leech, how many of those do you see?

    For any pet you have to spend the gold for all 120 scrolls and skill them for many many hours. Before they can kill difficult things.  Notice how Kragg had his bear out without skills,  Its not the bear is so touch, its the spawn is so weak.

    The T hunt boss didn't kill pets other than the ones players were riding.

    They graced us with easy Mobs.  Don't complain about what Kyronix gives.

    Scalis will be the Bears test,  How many of them will I res while my Triton  keeps on killing.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,082
    LilyGrace said:
    What cracked me up in game (no clue if it’s accurate) was hearing that these new bears can be built so the more damage they do the more they keep themselves healed. So Sampire bears with hidden tamers is good? But Sampire players are bad?




    Sampire are abominations that should not exist but that the developers are afraid to fix  my bear however both will make Allen mad and is beautiful
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,289
    A Ninja Passive magic with a Bushido active magic.  Would take about 20 minutes to kill an Allosaurus.  You can even run consume on it for that test.  It wont do enough damage to heal itself. 
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,405
    Pawain said:
    A Ninja Passive magic with a Bushido active magic.  Would take about 20 minutes to kill an Allosaurus.  You can even run consume on it for that test.  It wont do enough damage to heal itself. 
    Good thing I don't fight dinos
  • LilyGraceLilyGrace Posts: 1,003
    Whatev’s the whole argument is old and stale. 
  • Lord_NythraxLord_Nythrax Posts: 514
    Grimbeard said:
    I don't complain i just find it insane that you believe tamers and ranged fighters never get targeted..

    At least three or four tamers have come to this forum in the last week or whatever to complain about paragons hitting them. A couple of them have doggedly insisted that paragons actually target tamers preferentially. The poor dears are so used to sitting around in a trash luck suit pushing their "all kill" macro that the moment something dares to hit them they resort to conspiracy theories.

    Also, when ranged fighters get targeted, they're expected to move and shoot in order to maintain that range. You seemed to have a real problem with this last time we talked about it, apparently your archer and/or thrower were getting "surrounded" by all the lowbie trash spawn this event throws at them.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,405
    Lord_Nythrax said:
    Grimbeard said:
    I don't complain i just find it insane that you believe tamers and ranged fighters never get targeted..

    At least three or four tamers have come to this forum in the last week or whatever to complain about paragons hitting them. A couple of them have doggedly insisted that paragons actually target tamers preferentially. The poor dears are so used to sitting around in a trash luck suit pushing their "all kill" macro that the moment something dares to hit them they resort to conspiracy theories.

    Also, when ranged fighters get targeted, they're expected to move and shoot in order to maintain that range. You seemed to have a real problem with this last time we talked about it, apparently your archer and/or thrower were getting "surrounded" by all the lowbie trash spawn this event throws at them.
    You don't play either class or you wouldn't say such stupid things 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,289
    edited December 1
    Grimbeard said:
    I don't complain i just find it insane that you believe tamers and ranged fighters never get targeted..

    At least three or four tamers have come to this forum in the last week or whatever to complain about paragons hitting them. A couple of them have doggedly insisted that paragons actually target tamers preferentially. The poor dears are so used to sitting around in a trash luck suit pushing their "all kill" macro that the moment something dares to hit them they resort to conspiracy theories.

    Also, when ranged fighters get targeted, they're expected to move and shoot in order to maintain that range. You seemed to have a real problem with this last time we talked about it, apparently your archer and/or thrower were getting "surrounded" by all the lowbie trash spawn this event throws at them.
    This event is comparing Apples and Oranges.  Nothing here is difficult.  If a tamer dies the pet kills the paragon while the tamer resses.  In the previous dungeons, the para would be at full HP when you return, and you begin again.

    Yes, our nerfs are still on while Tainted LL is not. 

    I don't complain about being detected, that's been the way it works, an elderly father figure is that poster.  Giving you info when you lack it, is not complaining.

    Least I can build and skill my bears on a tamer while my fighters get more drops.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • Lord_NythraxLord_Nythrax Posts: 514
    Grimbeard said:
    You don't play either class or you wouldn't say such stupid things 

    What exactly are you saying here? Is it your contention that ranged attackers are not supposed to move around in order to maintain distance between themselves and the monsters? Are you literally just standing in one place and getting hit?

    As for tamers, I don't need to play one in order to read their posts about how unfair it is that monsters are allowed to hit them.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,405
    Lord_Nythrax said:
    Grimbeard said:
    You don't play either class or you wouldn't say such stupid things 

    What exactly are you saying here? Is it your contention that ranged attackers are not supposed to move around in order to maintain distance between themselves and the monsters? Are you literally just standing in one place and getting hit?

    As for tamers, I don't need to play one in order to read their posts about how unfair it is that monsters are allowed to hit them.
    You have to stop to shoot what part of this don't you comprehend?  And it's sampires running by that causes a monster to re-target that tamers complain about 
  • Lord_NythraxLord_Nythrax Posts: 514
    Grimbeard said:
    You have to stop to shoot what part of this don't you comprehend?

    Oh my god dude, you stop to shoot and then move some more, paragons aren't THAT fast. Do you want to see? Roll a disposable newbie on Atlantic and I'll stone archery on and show you. Our event towns are too crowded to get a paragon to ourselves, but we can run through Ilshenar until we find a nice one, and then I'll lead it around and shoot it for a while without letting it hit me.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,405
    Lord_Nythrax said:
    Grimbeard said:
    You have to stop to shoot what part of this don't you comprehend?

    Oh my god dude, you stop to shoot and then move some more, paragons aren't THAT fast. Do you want to see? Roll a disposable newbie on Atlantic and I'll stone archery on and show you. Our event towns are too crowded to get a paragon to ourselves, but we can run through Ilshenar until we find a nice one, and then I'll lead it around and shoot it for a while without letting it hit me.
    Gee the monsters I fight mana dump on me you must be gud 
  • Lord_NythraxLord_Nythrax Posts: 514
    edited December 1
    Grimbeard said:
    Gee the monsters I fight mana dump on me you must be gud 

    What does this have to do with you standing there letting them hit you? When you're shooting and moving, shooting and moving, all you have to do is move a little further than normal and make enough room to get off a heal. This is elementary Archer 101 stuff, it's insane that I have to explain it to you. You aren't qualified to talk about game balance in any meaningful way. I'm not even being rude, you just objectively are not.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,405
    Lord_Nythrax said:
    Grimbeard said:
    Gee the monsters I fight mana dump on me you must be gud 

    What does this have to do with you standing there letting them hit you? When you're shooting and moving, shooting and moving, all you have to do is move a little further than normal and make enough room to get off a heal. This is elementary Archer 101 stuff, it's insane that I have to explain it to you. You aren't qualified to talk about game balance in any meaningful way. I'm not even being rude, you just objectively are not.
    You live in a fantasy world 
  • Lord_NythraxLord_Nythrax Posts: 514
    edited December 1
    Grimbeard said:
    You live in a fantasy world 

    Seriously let me know if you want to come to Atlantic and get some remedial archery lessons. I've made sure to screenshot this thread for the next time I catch you acting like you know what you're talking about. This is way, way, way funnier than Pawain's wacky template with the 75 resisting spells.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,405
    You have lived in your 2 button sampire world for to long
  • Lord_NythraxLord_Nythrax Posts: 514
    Grimbeard said:
    You have lived in your 2 button sampire world for to long

    Yeah I should live in your highly-skilled world of standing still while paragons beat your archer to death, right? You're way too bad at this game to attempt a tone like this. Like seriously, which of these two things do you dispute?

    1) An archer should maintain distance from hostiles, including paragons, while stopping to shoot.

    2) When an archer who is doing the above takes damage, they can move even further away and make room in which to heal.

    Go ahead and tell me which one you think is a lie. Then tell me how much gold you'll pay me to do them right in front of your face for you.
  • Victim_Of_SiegeVictim_Of_Siege Posts: 2,165
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • PlayerSkillFTWPlayerSkillFTW Posts: 625
    edited December 2
    "The proper way to nerf the abomination known as sampire is to make necro leeches scale off spirt speak also negative and positive karma spell should damage the opposite" -- Grimbeard

    "Curse Weapon was a perfect balance.. u need to actually cast the spell (fizzle) without SS the lenght is just ridiculous.. casting tons of curse weapon lower the karma just enough to make the pally healing and cure worthless.." -- Kroduk

    "Sampire should not exist as it is.   The amount of returned HP should scale with Spirit Speak. The HP returned should also reduce as Chivalry is inceased" -- Pawain

    ---------------------------------------------

    I unironically support all of the above.

    Admittedly it's not exactly a selfless position on my part since I already run a no-chiv sampire with spirit speak just because I happen to like it that way, but it is a bit less strong than the standard meta sampire build and deals less well with certain specific situations. I'm not an expert on the current high-end chiv melee meta, but I do think it's possible to arrive an an equilibrium where both builds are at least generally equally viable.

    I really wish someone from the development team would talk about this out loud. For like twenty years now the subject has been shrouded in a sort of baffling silence, where obvious nerfs are never made and instead they just slap leech immunity on to the occasional mob, like being OP part of the time and worthless other times averages out to being balanced.

    I have a sneaking suspicion that part of it is thus: If they made these changes, sure the Average Joe Sampire would be able to pick up spirit speak instead of chivalry, but they'd be stuck wearing a dexer suit with no LRC and need to carry necro reagents. Nobody wants to carry regs, and asking every sampire to replace their suit is viewed as too great a demand.

    If that is the case, then I think they should just add a weightless insurable reagent sack and call it a day. Nobody actually likes LRC, they just hate carrying reagents so much that they're willing to nerf their suits over it. It's a convenience stat, so just give everyone the convenience and call it a day. I already wear a dexer suit with LRC since I like using my necro spells, so it's nothing to me either way, although I guess I'd look into a new suit if I didn't really need LRC anymore.

    My Sampires have had GM SS since AoS launched (back when my original one was just a Necro/Swordsman). Their build is 120 Swords/GM Tact/GM Necro/GM SS/GM Bush/GM Chiv/GM Resist. I have GM Parry/GM Anat/GM LJ on soulstones, and will swap around skills based on what i'm hunting. I use Curse Weapon to give me +50% Life Drain, which stacks with VE's 20% for 70% Life Drain, which gives me 3.5x the healing of a regular Sampire, making me particularly hard to kill. I can also use Corpse Skin in combination with Onslaught to drop a victim's Fire/Poison Resist by -31, which oftentimes makes up for the lack of Anatomy.
    As for regs, i use insured Arcane Thigh Boots, and carry 5 Arcane Gems to recharge them (16 charges per recharge with 0 Tailoring). I also carry 100 Pig Iron for Curse Weapon. That being said, i still wouldn't mind seeing NL's "Reagent Bag of Unburdening" come to regular shards.

    Them allowing Life Leech to work on the new event Paragons, has once again brought Sampires out of the woodworks, while relegating Healing Warriors back to extinction for this event. Archers/Throwers are only really effective on Atlantic due to the sheer numbers of people taking the aggro and dropping the Paragons fast. On a dead shard, a Sampire outperforms a Archer/Thrower because he can easily deal with the Paragons and swarms.

    LilyGrace said:
    What cracked me up in game (no clue if it’s accurate) was hearing that these new bears can be built so the more damage they do the more they keep themselves healed.
    Tis true! When Life Leech procs, it heals for about 40% of the damage dealt (consuming 5 Mana in the process), and can proc during special moves like Armor Ignore. The more melee damage a Life Leech pet delivers (Life Leech does not work with magic damage or ticks like FWW/Poison), the more it'll self heal for. Which is why the new Moldering Ursines are particularly well suited for Chiv+AI, since that's the highest single target damage build there is for pets. A Moldering Ursine delivering a 300+ damage AI during EoO, can heal for 120+ HP with that hit, if Life Leech procs during it.
  • StingardStingard Posts: 27
    With the event weapons and craftable high life leech weapons, you don't even need to run Necro anymore.  I am running a macer Paladin build with Sanctifier or a high life leech war hammer and it works just fine. Now I have healing for the times that life leech is corrupted.  This event even gave me a free +15 to my healing with one of the new items.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,405
    Stingard said:
    With the event weapons and craftable high life leech weapons, you don't even need to run Necro anymore.  I am running a macer Paladin build with Sanctifier or a high life leech war hammer and it works just fine. Now I have healing for the times that life leech is corrupted.  This event even gave me a free +15 to my healing with one of the new items.
    Where will you put those points?  
  • StingardStingard Posts: 27
    Grimbeard said:
    Stingard said:
    With the event weapons and craftable high life leech weapons, you don't even need to run Necro anymore.  I am running a macer Paladin build with Sanctifier or a high life leech war hammer and it works just fine. Now I have healing for the times that life leech is corrupted.  This event even gave me a free +15 to my healing with one of the new items.
    Where will you put those points?  

    I just ate a scroll and went from 100 to 115 healing for now.  I will look at it again after the event and see if there is a better way to use them with my template.
  • StingardStingard Posts: 27
    On a different note, this Chiv/AI Bear is laying waste to my normal training room in Hythloth for pets and it's not even done training up. 
  • MerlinMerlin Posts: 235
    Sampires should be left alone.  It is (arguably) the most popular melee template and thousands of account holders have one.   While they certainly have some powerful advantages, there is plenty of content where they are at a disadvantage.  

    The developers should ignore this echo chamber of forum trolls who simply want the rest of the UO community to share in their constant misery. Don't like sampires? Play New Legacy.
  • daradara Posts: 37
    Feels more like greed, such a environment of mine mine all mine. :(

  • RhelRhel Posts: 78
    Lord_Nythrax said:
    Grimbeard said:
    I don't complain i just find it insane that you believe tamers and ranged fighters never get targeted..

    At least three or four tamers have come to this forum in the last week or whatever to complain about paragons hitting them. A couple of them have doggedly insisted that paragons actually target tamers preferentially. The poor dears are so used to sitting around in a trash luck suit pushing their "all kill" macro that the moment something dares to hit them they resort to conspiracy theories.

    Also, when ranged fighters get targeted, they're expected to move and shoot in order to maintain that range. You seemed to have a real problem with this last time we talked about it, apparently your archer and/or thrower were getting "surrounded" by all the lowbie trash spawn this event throws at them.
    You either don't play tamer, or you don't play at all.

    On my warrior, I see paragons latch onto tamers on foot and never change target until the tamer is dead, no matter how many people hit the paragon, or how many people run by it. It just sticks to tamers. Mean while, if I'm fighting a paragon, ANYTHING can run by me and the paragon will disengage and run off and never come back to me. I just have to chase it for 10 screens while it chases someone else. The AI is bad, and laughably so.

    I suspect you actually don't play the game, and only come to stir the forum pot. Like your video claiming sampires are OP, but you're fighting normal skeletal drakes and skeletal mages. I laughed. My dexxer two shots drakes and the HA on my weapon one shots non-paragon skeletal mages. I don't know why it took you so long to kill those mobs, but as a two week old warrior that I took the time to gear/skill, I can out kill your supposedly OP sampire, without necro. lol
  • LilyGraceLilyGrace Posts: 1,003
    Merlin said:
    Sampires should be left alone.  It is (arguably) the most popular melee template and thousands of account holders have one.   While they certainly have some powerful advantages, there is plenty of content where they are at a disadvantage.  

    The developers should ignore this echo chamber of forum trolls who simply want the rest of the UO community to share in their constant misery. Don't like sampires? Play New Legacy.

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