Totem of Chromatic Fortune change??

LarisaLarisa Posts: 1,211
edited November 24 in General Discussions
Noticed this morning when I went with a non guildmate to try for more pretty mares that the totem is no longer protecting the rare spawn from being killed.

Has anyone else had this issue? It was working as intended last night.

Okay so upon further testing I noticed that it seems to only happen in the southern most spot in T2A. There are areas in that location where I got the message *You cannot place a totem there* When I was finally able to place it, it did not protect the rare spawns from being attacked by other players.

Comments

  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,284
    edited November 25
    I'm up to 16 totems with zero of any shade of purple. 1 red, 1 doodoo brown, 1 silver. Going by my instrument i use to disco and kill the plains, i'm over 450 killed.

    If these give an increase to colors i'm not seeing it at all. 
  • SkettSkett Posts: 1,492
    try using a different account partied i had same issue switched account and instantly got color again maybe its just a coincidence but it worked
    it seems like those totems have a diminishing return maybe ? 
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,292
    Yea I wish there was more defined numbers on what a totem does because I'm starting to doubt it myself. I have placed a total of 24 or so totems (so 8ish full charge items from the store) and have yet to see a single purple; only 1 demonic (this was early in the release), 1 green (again early), maybe 6 or so "bloodwood" red, and 10+ greys (some of the shiny look grey to me so I don't have a super accurate number).

    To break down the numbers further...One full charge totem gives 3 charges and is good for an hour; I've done this 8 hours total broken up in a few sessions. I kill about 4-6 mares a minute (depends on respawn rate). On average I kill 300 mares an hour give or take. So 8 hours of using totems multiplied by the roughly 300mares per hour is 2400 mares. I'm not sure what the spawn rate of those more rare colors are but I almost feel like by killing 2400 mares I'd see one demonic & green even without a totem. I understand that breaking up the times between using totems might "miss out" on spawning a rare color one so the last time I used totems (maybe a week ago), I used 7 charges (2hr 20min) and in that period I saw 0 purple/demonic/green at any point and 3 bloodwood; that's roughly 700ish nightmares.

    Even though Kyronix said they didn't turn down the color spawn since it first launched, what I've seen does not support that as I haven't seen a green or higher spawn for me since things kicked off (with or without totems). Maybe there is something to the account thing? Not sure about that though, it kind of brings me back to the feeling of my account being "marked" and not getting drops during EM events lol.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,292
    edited November 25
    Also - quick add to my previous post is that I've also spent probably 4-5 hours killing mares without totems (never longer than an hour straight though). I've had less void/grey mares spawn I think than if using a totem. I have seen 2-3 bloodwood mares in that time frame and no other color.

    It's loose math but I feel like using a totem, for me personally, very slightly increases the low color spawned but doesn't seem like it's working on the higher end colors. Again this is where I'd like to know what the expected bump from a totem is versus not using one.
  • MacrophageMacrophage Posts: 16
    edited November 25
    I think they have lowered the spawn rate of the colored mares at the same time as the hot fix for the lag in Atlantic
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,284
    Skett said:
    try using a different account partied i had same issue switched account and instantly got color again maybe its just a coincidence but it worked
    it seems like those totems have a diminishing return maybe ? 

    Ok thanks for that info! I guess i need to dust off a warrior for the kills then keep the tamer on standby.

    This is also on a character that i've had a close to max luck suit on for years and years and never gotten any phat lootz from either. 
  • SkettSkett Posts: 1,492
    use which ever char can kill the mares the fastest and have them place the totem and use your tamer to tame them and gate to stable make sure to party them
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,284
    I decided to give it a couple more totems before calling it quits when there she was on my final totem...

    A 2 slot 112% purple. It wasn't the void purple I wanted but she'll do nicely. 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,118
    Congrats!
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,292
    Urge said:
    I decided to give it a couple more totems before calling it quits when there she was on my final totem...

    A 2 slot 112% purple. It wasn't the void purple I wanted but she'll do nicely. 

    Glad to hear it Urge! Where did you tame it (T2a new spots? Old spot? Cove? Fel?)?

    I'm going to give it  a try using a different account to place; it's been pretty brutal for me but I would really like a purple mare in the stable so I will try a bit more.

    @Kyronix - Can you confirm that the colored mares will be done spawning after 11/30?? I feel like I saw that somewhere but I'm not sure if I was thinking that was like the masks or some other part of the 118.1 events.
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 490
    edited November 27
    I've got a similar memory, the phase 2 was supposed to begin early dec (like 1-7) with phase 1 ending.
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?
    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • ya'll really need to look into how companies are required to give chances on GAMBLING like loot boxes which is what this is. not sharing the chances after paying real money is illegal
  • KroDuKKroDuK Posts: 490
    edited November 28
    They only need to say the % in certain countries and ban like in belgium and maybe 1 more country, as far as I know.

    You could consider totem as loot box but it boost your luck %..
    a better % on the actual loot box called; in game RNG.  :|
    So rather than recognise the effort the botters went to, to set all that up - for the benefit of the players, to help get certain items, something you could never be bothered to do, you would rather drag people backwards to your neanderthal world?
    -UO official forums, brought to you by BoardSword studio
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,292
    edited November 28
    Decided to give taming another try last night since the ToT event wasn't spawning enough with all the people on. Finally got a Demonic to spawn (3 slot low intensity) but that was the highlight. I'll give the stats below, but @Kyronix I am maintaining that something is "off". The whole "pay to win" thing only makes sense when people win after paying...

    Went through 4 full totems (12 charges) straight through (ie 4 hours straight). I was in the new spawn areas in T2a. I stopped counting how many mares I went through after 750 but was averaging just under 100 per totem charge so if I had to guess; maybe 1150 mares.

    33 Shiny/Void (2.8%)
    12 Grey (1%)
    3 Red (0.2%)
    1 Green (0.00009%)
    1 Demonic (0.00009%)
    0 Purple (0.00%)

     Those are the stats WITH the in game purchase store item. If that's how it shakes out WITH the totem, it seems like a virtual impossibility to ever get a purple (or really even a Demonic or Green). That said...

    I was feeling like a glutton for punishment last night (plus I had 2 more beers left) so I stayed another 25minutes just in case the purple was in a log jam. I didn't keep track of the kills but it seemed at the same pace so if I had to guess, 110 mares or so and no purple. I did get 2 shiny/void and 1 grey in that time. That's roughly 2% spawn rate for the void/shiny and 1% for the grey... which is almost exactly what it was WITH the totem.

    Look, I get it that these colors above red all have "rare" in the frequency but when I've gone through easily 3,000 mares using 30+ "pay to win" items and still have not even sniffed the highest reward; something seems functionally broken here. The Demonic (less rare than the purple) appears to be at a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent. On top of all of that it kind of looks like the totem isn't really boosting my chances to get higher colors from what I've seen (for me).

    I never tamed a red or green rabbit when those spawned because to me they weren't ever something I'd use so it wasn't worth paying for a totem. I'd like a purple mare because I can use it so I decided to "pay to win" and from what I can see that's broken. I'd love to know what the actual percentages look like for these spawning. It's very frustrating to feel like I've wasted the money on totems that are supposed to increase the chances of getting the thing I want and after going through 30+ of them still not getting the thing I'm after.... seems like the totems do NOT work as expected.
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 1,284
    Definitely off. 

    I almost feel the purple has the spawn rate of a blaze cu.
  • I have burned through a bunch of totems by Covetous, in Malas, at kirin passage and in T2A. I have spent probably 40 hours killing my favorite pets in the game since the new colors came out. Best I have is a pure green 2 slot and a 101 intensity gray 2 slot. I have killed a ton of 3 slot gray and red and countless 1910s. Only seen one demonic forces and it is a 3 slot and in my stable for now.

    I don't mind the rarity - hunting good mares is something I have come to like. I do hate how some of the best looking ones are worthless as pets. A 3 slot CU can decimate a 3 slot mare. And of course my main pets are legacy mares who beat current mares in every way

    So I guess I am asking if a mare spawns as a rare color could it please also be default 2 slot? I don't think that would hurt anything. They will never be as good as a legacy mare anyway. 

    I am the world's biggest nightmare fan so I want to encourage more mares in general. It's probably too late for any of this. Hopefully I get my pink mare tomorrow :p
  • Arroth_ThaielArroth_Thaiel Posts: 1,065
    @keven2002

    It's looks to me like you're right about where we would expect you to be. I've posted your data into the simple spreadsheet (middle section) rarity comparison below.


    Your numbers seem to line up pretty closely to what I've called "theoretical", (left section). As least theoretical with the totem. You're already at 100% in your distribution, so one of your other numbers will have to come down a bit to make room for that Ubermare. I see some streakiness in your future.

    I'm suspecting that without the totem, the numbers look something more like this:


    Or worse. They may have scaled it all the way to 0.01 or 1 : 10,000 for the Uber rare. That would put it on par with Slim's Shadow Veil from what we've heard about that rarity.

    What did Eärendil say on Stratics when they were farming for Slims? "Put a pencil in my ear and call it macaroni!" or something to that effect.

    --
    I've also included a standard rarity model (right section). This is the type of rarity we see with loot boxes all the time. "Rares" are about 10:100 (1:10). As you've pointed out, this actually lets people claim something "rare", gives that dopamine hit, and keeps them buying! However, a lot of loot box systems also have "Legendaries" (UO's "Very Rare") that are normally about 1:100, or so.


    Good luck to all the uber mare hunters!
    -Arroth
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,118
    Did they turn off the new mares after the first server up?
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,292
    @ keven2002

    It's looks to me like you're right about where we would expect you to be. I've posted your data into the simple spreadsheet (middle section) rarity comparison below.


    Your numbers seem to line up pretty closely to what I've called "theoretical", (left section). As least theoretical with the totem. You're already at 100% in your distribution, so one of your other numbers will have to come down a bit to make room for that Ubermare. I see some streakiness in your future.

    I'm suspecting that without the totem, the numbers look something more like this:


    Or worse. They may have scaled it all the way to 0.01 or 1 : 10,000 for the Uber rare. That would put it on par with Slim's Shadow Veil from what we've heard about that rarity.

    What did Eärendil say on Stratics when they were farming for Slims? "Put a pencil in my ear and call it macaroni!" or something to that effect.

    --
    I've also included a standard rarity model (right section). This is the type of rarity we see with loot boxes all the time. "Rares" are about 10:100 (1:10). As you've pointed out, this actually lets people claim something "rare", gives that dopamine hit, and keeps them buying! However, a lot of loot box systems also have "Legendaries" (UO's "Very Rare") that are normally about 1:100, or so.


    Good luck to all the uber mare hunters!

    Thank you for the post. I think this math would, then, likely support the case where I believe they did change the spawn rate at some point because I have seen a few post where people were showing math way more favorable (on Stratics) in getting the rare colors when it first kicked off on Origin AND it legit seemed better to over 20 people I've talked to on ATL who have been taming mares the entire time.

    I think my main issues with the mares/totems would be 1) they have not come out to say what the expected spawn rate is (everything is speculation at this point, imo) 2) assuming the math you provided is good and falls inline with other things; that should be the BASE...not the values WITH an in store paid item & 3) I do believe they giving us the Mandela effect on the spawn rate.
  • SkettSkett Posts: 1,492
    Pawain said:
    Did they turn off the new mares after the first server up?

    No
  • Arroth_ThaielArroth_Thaiel Posts: 1,065
    edited November 30
    In this thread Kyronix said it was all RNG.
    https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/112335/

    They could have turned it down since that post, who knows, but with probabilities that low, you can get long streaks without a success even without them turning it down.


    --
    Pretty sure we all already know the answer to your first issue above. They are not going to reveal the spawn rates on anything. If the players knew precise numbers, it would open a whole can of worms with manipulation of the design.

    Also, not revealing the numbers gives the devs fudge room, so that they can adjust stuff on the fly, as needed, or as they see fit. If we notice, they can just say "RNG" folks, with a wink emoji.

    I suspect the best we can hope for is a definition of common, uncommon, etc., and that the team is consistent with those definitions so that we, as players, can kind of get an idea of what to expect.


    --
    As for the base vs. totem values, that's going to be part of the design choices they are looking at. Are they building a system around individual players, with chances designed to reward an individual, i.e. 1 : 10 drop rates, or are they thinking about the number of items entering into the game world as a whole, and drop rates are set to keep things limited overall, i.e. 1 : 10,000? Below is a layout just to highlight that concept. (There could be any number of rarity models, including middle grounds, or even more extreme rarity, i.e. 1 : 100,000 or 1 : 1,000,000.)

     


    A 1 : 10,000, or 1 : 20,000 drop rate seems crazy, until you remember UO is an MMO. It's not just you, or I, looking for rares. The numbers the dev team see are probably nuts. Let's just do some very broad stroke math.


    If you're balancing game wide, you start out with what appear stupidly low drop rates. The aggregate of all those players playing all the time adds up fast though, and even a 1 : 10,000 drop rate produces 100's of "uber rare" items.

    Now bring in the totem. Which type of rarity model, what type of metrics are they considering for game balance? It looks to me the rarer mares are extremely rare, say 1 : 5000 or 1 : 10,000 without the totem, and the team is looking at a more game wide balance/rarity. Technically you could get one without a totem, but that's a lot of game time. That totem is probably giving you a significant boost, so that as an individual you have at least a more realistic chance to tame a rare, even with the base rarity set to a stupid low MMO model.


    --
    As I said before, good luck to everyone hunting rare pets!

    I don't do the pet thing and haven't tamed a single mare. I was just interested in what the rarity models behind the scenes might look like.

    Have fun all!
    -Arroth
  • SkettSkett Posts: 1,492
    I burned through about 7 totems nothing worth keeping them on 1 charge I got 2 purple long hair 2/5 and then a demonic 3/5 in less than 3 minutes apart then burned about 5 more full totems only got a 3/5 green it’s very hit or miss for sure. Out of about 50 totems I’ve only got 8 purple 5 demonic 10 green. Lots of the old rares and the new black and red simi rares 
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,292
    edited December 2
    Skett said:
    I burned through about 7 totems nothing worth keeping them on 1 charge I got 2 purple long hair 2/5 and then a demonic 3/5 in less than 3 minutes apart then burned about 5 more full totems only got a 3/5 green it’s very hit or miss for sure. Out of about 50 totems I’ve only got 8 purple 5 demonic 10 green. Lots of the old rares and the new black and red simi rares 

    [Laughs at the "only 8 purple" part]

    I'm assuming when you say 7 totems or 50 totems; you mean charges and not full charge (ie 3charge) totems? The difference there would be 50 charges versus 150 charges.

    I've easily burned through 75 charges and haven't seen a single purple so if you have seen 8 that is FAR outpacing me but even if you have used 150 charges; I'd expect to see at least 1 or 2 compared to your numbers.

    At the end of the day I get it; it's "RNG" which can be wonky but I do not know how much faith I have in the way RNG is setup (I know it's probably impossible to test). The reason I say this is because Ancient SOSs are a perfect example of "broken RNG" that I have seen first hand. I was opening MiBs as I was getting them hit or miss (3-4 at a time and logging and coming back a few days later opening more etc). I probably opened well over 100 without a single ASOS; until I posted about it and someone told me to truly get the 1:25 rate you need to do them all in one shot because otherwise you could go hundreds with no luck. Sure enough... I collected like 40 MiBs to do all at once and that's when I finally got ASOS (I think I got 2). Up until that point I was wasting the MiBs...again I could be wrong here but I feel like I've wasted totems because there is something stupid like this where if you camp the same spot using totems for 8 hours is how you "force" a purple; versus using a totem 2 hours a day across 4 days. The longest I've been able to devote in a single session in 4 hours (in it was painfully boring); outside of that I've been using 3 charges and then logging...I'm starting to think that's what I'm doing wrong.
  • SkettSkett Posts: 1,492
    50 full totems and i counted i have 9 purple
    i burned 7 full totems and got nothing good was bad rng ?
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 2,292
    Skett said:
    50 full totems and i counted i have 9 purple
    i burned 7 full totems and got nothing good was bad rng ?
    Ah 150 charges makes more sense. Did you use the 7 totems back to back (ie 7 hours of taming) with nothing and then use the next one which got you a purple & demonic or did you break that up?
  • SkettSkett Posts: 1,492
    it took 7 more to get any color i finally got a good green
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