How about giving a guaranteed drop chance to the TMapper(s) who spawned the Manifestation of Evil ?

popps · October 31

I am hearing a whole lot of complaints about BOTs which just wait for the coordinates of where the Manifestation of Evil spawn point to then show up and, at least on Atlantic, kill it in no time leaving the digger(s) of the Treasure Chest empty handed, often...

Well, how about giving to the Treasure Mapper(s) who actually digged the chest and spawned the Boss a 100%, guaranteed drop chance, then ?

This would solve the issue to leave them empty handed after they did the most time consuming part of the work, wouldn't it ?

Grimbeard · October 31

No this is working perfectly on every shard except Atlantic

Fenriswolf · October 31

ive missed looting rights on 2 bosses even when i was there at the start on Europa, can only imagine the pain on Atlantic. But some reward for the people spawning the boss would be good

JackFlashUk · October 31

Popps

does you t hunter get looting rights? If so then yes that seems fair

problem is getting a damage skill on a loaded rogue template

you run 1 acct or several?

A second acct can be the damage dealer maybe ?

not done this event. Are bots really that bad ?

Riner · October 31

As much as I dislike agreeing with popps a good idea is still a good idea. I like the idea of tmappers gaining a drop for taking part in the spawning so there is incentive, in addition to the chest loot, to do the chests. There is already a precedence for this with Krampus and trade runs. Just add that X amount of chests ensure a drop.

KroDuK · October 31

Just do like tokuno minor and major artifact.. personally I won't do T-map for couple reason like; i don't have access to eodon.. i'd rage working on a spawn and not being able to take part in the manifestation.

If all T-hunter gaining a sure drop.. it won't leave much room for the rest of players with no T-hunter.. kinda suck as a "community event" (they already got the antiques)

Agreed tho it suck even more for T-hunter to get out damage by PvE heroes sitting at the bank.

So just give them the tokuno mechanic.. not sure how many antique u get per T-map.. so i'll throw a random number of 5 to 1 rng item reward from the satchel.
It would give more sandboxy control for the hard working T-hunter; they could scrap their ugliest or numerous antiques.

@JackFlashUk on Legends.. the only auto aim i've noted was a heal pocket bot.. hvn't notice a single aggressor auto aim script from the ~10 toons doing manifestation.

Edit: the only sure drop i'd agree for T-hunter is the random guy digging the manifestation.. if u hit the 777 u should have a sure drop.. even if someone did 60% of the job to invoke the manifestation & don't get a satchel.. i don't feel that bad for him.. since he's loaded with antiques.. just give that guy a tokuno option, so he can bling.

In a Perfect world u have T-hunter doing their stuff and the leeches waiting for the random T-hunter digging a manifestation to portal them or not, since he would skip the boss and keep T-hunting (better % of reward) type of stuff.. since he would get instant satchel when digging one while hunting more antiques. something along that line..

PS: it do not resolve ATL and CHEATERS problem.. for that only a GM could.

Riner · October 31

Although I like the idea of being able to trade in chest rewards for a drop selection, even a random bag with same chances for certain rewards as boss. I wouldn't mind having a 6 minute delay on announcement of location from town criers either. It would allow t-hunters to get there and start fight before bank sitters arrived.

KroDuK · October 31

Riner said:

Although I like the idea of being able to trade in chest rewards for a drop selection, even a random bag

I'd tend to go for random bag.. or your gonna kill the antiques market shot term.. they not gonna be mid tier deco but just a currency.. It was in the optic of those T-hunter (most of them ain't hitting hard)

They could just go roll the dice after a while with some of the less desirable deco or numerous one.. u give them more option than the leeches.

For the delay I agree, imagine doing a chest.. u need to abort to run at the manifestation and u end up with no satchels; killing all motivation.. but if the stuff i said is implemented in a good ratio (I have no idea of how many antiques u can get from a single chests)
Most of these T-hunter would ignore the manifestation and keep doing there stuff.. it would just be an extra for the random guy digging up the manifestation and a flexing moment when he's doing a gate for the leeches and flex out; returning T-hunting.. wich should be more rewarding than leeching or cheating.

5 minutes for leeches is more than enough.

Edit: yet again; i'm ignoring ATL cheating auto aiming problem.. cuz imo it shouldn't be a problem to begin with...

Fenriswolf · October 31

treasure chests dont tend to give more than 3 of the new deco stuff and thats for hoard and trove, ive only done a few supply/cache and they tend to be 0-1 for those. Im happy with the stuff from the chests i guess, if it has any value, but im not sure it compares to some of the new arti-level items you get from the bags from the Manifestation? I feel more sorry for tamers, including myself as the current chance of taming any shadowhounds is pretty slim unless you get a boss with <10 players on it

Also, isnt too late for these suggestions?

Arroth_Thaiel · October 31

I agree with the general feedback in this thread. This event is just set up oddly. The t-hunters actually doing the maps get very little, if any, reward for their time and map investment.

--
As an example:

Last night I logged in just as Pacific was killing off a Manifestation. I quickly switched to my t-hunter to start running maps. As I pulled my first chest, I got the "The land stirs, but the evil remains distant." system message, so I knew I was close to the start of the cycle. I also knew others were doing maps from the discussion in general chat. I ran through a few maps and watched the system messages. As the cycle end got close, I switched to Stash maps so I didn't get stuck at a chest when the boss popped. As I dug up my 9th chest, "The Ground ruptures..." system message appeared. I cleared the guardians and the chest, dropped off the gold so I wasn't overloaded for the boss, input the coordinates to create a waypoint, and ran to the location. I saw, engaged, and damaged the boss, but did not get looting rights, as quite a few tamers/fighters were present. I got 4 artifacts for the maps I ran.

This was not an enjoyable, engaging, "let me play this game and tell me friends about it" gameplay experience.

--
Yes, I realize that as one of the t-hunters, the proper way to engage with this content is to mark a rune for the chest you are digging, and if the boss spawns, abandon the chest, kill the boss, and then come back to the chest, but that is counter-intuitive to a Treasure Hunter.

Overall it is just an odd, non sequitur design. It's like having a contest for tailors to turn in BoDs, where once you've turned in enough BoDs, you get to participate in a jousting contest! Whaaaa?

--
Kyronix, the idea of setting up a standard "Treasures of..." turn in NPC for the new chest antiquities sounds like a pretty good one to me. If someone wants to abandon their chest for a shot at a prize, so be it. However, if they want to use their Treasure Hunter as a Treasure Hunter, and not a front-line fighter, then let them grind out chests and get their rewards that way. You could even set it up so only the characters that are opening chests could turn in antiquities to claim rewards.

I'm figuring it's too late in the event for you all to make any changes, but seriously, as it stands right now, it kind of sucks for the t-hunters.

KroDuK · October 31

with a dev team of 2 working on NL.. anything is too late for us

I'm lost here.. seen my third manifestation.. town crier was yelling 2 set of coordinates, i've used your link Fenris, was helpful... first set of coordinates was empty.. I went to the second one.. there is a golden manifestation with 4 minions.. the golden mani. cannot be damage and yet still attack and disarm me.. i'm like I have time to bring up my alt account.

2 min later no more manifestation.. only the remain of a noob, minions alive no other corpses.. did it despawn? Town crier stopped yelling coordinates.. actually he stopped talking -.-

PS: no one has killed it, my fencer was still 2 screen of the manifestation that was chassing and killing that noob.. no one else was around while i was bringing the alt.

Kinda lame.. won't gonna lie.. was crafting potion and keeping an eye on town crier for 4-5 hours.. was pump even if I had to solo that thing -.-

popps · October 31

Arroth_Thaiel said:

I agree with the general feedback in this thread. This event is just set up oddly. The t-hunters actually doing the maps get very little, if any, reward for their time and map investment.

--
As an example:

Last night I logged in just as Pacific was killing off a Manifestation. I quickly switched to my t-hunter to start running maps. As I pulled my first chest, I got the "The land stirs, but the evil remains distant." system message, so I knew I was close to the start of the cycle. I also knew others were doing maps from the discussion in general chat. I ran through a few maps and watched the system messages. As the cycle end got close, I switched to Stash maps so I didn't get stuck at a chest when the boss popped. As I dug up my 9th chest, "The Ground ruptures..." system message appeared. I cleared the guardians and the chest, dropped off the gold so I wasn't overloaded for the boss, input the coordinates to create a waypoint, and ran to the location. I saw, engaged, and damaged the boss, but did not get looting rights, as quite a few tamers/fighters were present. I got 4 artifacts for the maps I ran.

This was not an enjoyable, engaging, "let me play this game and tell me friends about it" gameplay experience.

--
Yes, I realize that as one of the t-hunters, the proper way to engage with this content is to mark a rune for the chest you are digging, and if the boss spawns, abandon the chest, kill the boss, and then come back to the chest, but that is counter-intuitive to a Treasure Hunter.

Overall it is just an odd, non sequitur design. It's like having a contest for tailors to turn in BoDs, where once you've turned in enough BoDs, you get to participate in a jousting contest! Whaaaa?

--
Kyronix, the idea of setting up a standard "Treasures of..." turn in NPC for the new chest antiquities sounds like a pretty good one to me. If someone wants to abandon their chest for a shot at a prize, so be it. However, if they want to use their Treasure Hunter as a Treasure Hunter, and not a front-line fighter, then let them grind out chests and get their rewards that way. You could even set it up so only the characters that are opening chests could turn in antiquities to claim rewards.

I'm figuring it's too late in the event for you all to make any changes, but seriously, as it stands right now, it kind of sucks for the t-hunters.

I'm figuring it's too late in the event for you all to make any changes, but seriously, as it stands right now, it kind of sucks for the t-hunters.

The testing of the Event should have run for a longer time so that these issues would have surfaced and be addressed with changes, me thinks...

Perhaps now it is late for complex changes to be implemented but a change that was to award a guaranteed drop for the Treasure Hunter(s) could be an easier one to be implemented, hopefully.

Grimbeard · October 31

popps said:

Arroth_Thaiel said:

I agree with the general feedback in this thread. This event is just set up oddly. The t-hunters actually doing the maps get very little, if any, reward for their time and map investment.

--
As an example:

Last night I logged in just as Pacific was killing off a Manifestation. I quickly switched to my t-hunter to start running maps. As I pulled my first chest, I got the "The land stirs, but the evil remains distant." system message, so I knew I was close to the start of the cycle. I also knew others were doing maps from the discussion in general chat. I ran through a few maps and watched the system messages. As the cycle end got close, I switched to Stash maps so I didn't get stuck at a chest when the boss popped. As I dug up my 9th chest, "The Ground ruptures..." system message appeared. I cleared the guardians and the chest, dropped off the gold so I wasn't overloaded for the boss, input the coordinates to create a waypoint, and ran to the location. I saw, engaged, and damaged the boss, but did not get looting rights, as quite a few tamers/fighters were present. I got 4 artifacts for the maps I ran.

This was not an enjoyable, engaging, "let me play this game and tell me friends about it" gameplay experience.

--
Yes, I realize that as one of the t-hunters, the proper way to engage with this content is to mark a rune for the chest you are digging, and if the boss spawns, abandon the chest, kill the boss, and then come back to the chest, but that is counter-intuitive to a Treasure Hunter.

Overall it is just an odd, non sequitur design. It's like having a contest for tailors to turn in BoDs, where once you've turned in enough BoDs, you get to participate in a jousting contest! Whaaaa?

--
Kyronix, the idea of setting up a standard "Treasures of..." turn in NPC for the new chest antiquities sounds like a pretty good one to me. If someone wants to abandon their chest for a shot at a prize, so be it. However, if they want to use their Treasure Hunter as a Treasure Hunter, and not a front-line fighter, then let them grind out chests and get their rewards that way. You could even set it up so only the characters that are opening chests could turn in antiquities to claim rewards.

I'm figuring it's too late in the event for you all to make any changes, but seriously, as it stands right now, it kind of sucks for the t-hunters.

I'm figuring it's too late in the event for you all to make any changes, but seriously, as it stands right now, it kind of sucks for the t-hunters.

The testing of the Event should have run for a longer time so that these issues would have surfaced and be addressed with changes, me thinks...

Perhaps now it is late for complex changes to be implemented but a change that was to award a guaranteed drop for the Treasure Hunter(s) could be an easier one to be implemented, hopefully.

Do know how many we did with zero issues on baja with my thunter getting looting right every time again this I an Atlantic problem

KroDuK · October 31

Grimbeard said:
Do know how many we did with zero issues on baja with my thunter getting looting right every time again this I an Atlantic problem

That been proven wrong, some mention of europa, pacific & GL only in two post on a forum with very few active member, for obvious reason (permission issuessss)

Grimbeard · October 31

If you want go spend one hour on any of the shards you mentioned you'll see for yourself

KroDuK · October 31

No offense, I will believe what happen to these guys (2 of them posted in this post).. personally on Legends we had a single manifestation today around 1pm eastern time.. the fucker despawn on me.

Arnold7 · November 3

Thinking that on most shards, other than Atlantic, except during prime time only one player is doing chests. Having to do five hoards in a row to raise the boss seems a little excessive. Think if I am going to make that effort, and then not be able to loot the final chest until the battle ends, I should get something more out of that final battle than the usual loot.

firec · November 3

So as a mapper ON ATLANTIC without access to shard shields... This event has been fairly rough. I go do all the work for the boss and never get the loot.

Yes, we have antiquities - but they are worth a fraction of the drops. You need around 20 antiquities to equal a single drop. If not more. And the market for antiquities is fairly small compared to the market for usable gear.

Anyhow, I have found a system if you want to reward or include your mappers.... And I recommend every mapper do it, unless they plan on adding loot tables to the chests themselves (which is doubtful at this point).

Place your completed maps on a vendor, and instruct your guild, players, server, whatever to come purchase them. They can find it by searching for "map completed by" or "map completed <name>. This should show up with a list of that persons completed maps. Then whoever bought it can just trash it for turn-in points, and help keep these mappers going.

Just a suggestion, and people have been contributing to mine, as well as dumping maps into my mailbox. It helps to offset the pressure to do something for everyone else's fun but your own.

I was the only one running maps last night around 2am, and then on that manifestation I didn't even manage to get loot rights. That stung.

Mit · November 3

Atl boss needs a tweak for sure.. was there when my first one spawned... pulled its life bar when it was attackable.., got a whole 3 arrows out before it was dead.. big crowd yes but even krampus lasts longer than that.. the treasure hunters that dig them up dont stand a chance at that type of encounter..

Fenriswolf · November 3

we just tried to spawn the boss with only a couple of Thunters on Europa late night...seems from Imminent it takes about 3-4 hoard maps for him to come...see pic. Pet tanked boss whilst we sectioned him off and tried to spawn shadowhounds off screen to the north...but we pretty much 5 manned him no trouble

Image: https://forum.uo.com/uploads/editor/x7/tedep6w1ik7b.png

Drago · November 3

This is one of those events that sounded good on paper. I have no intention of bringing out my t-map char is this is the case. The bot problem on atlantic is extremely obvious when events happen.

ill pass on this event.

keven2002 · November 3

Drago said:

This is one of those events that sounded good on paper. I have no intention of bringing out my t-map char is this is the case. The bot problem on atlantic is extremely obvious when events happen.

ill pass on this event.

I've failed to get a drop on 4 out of 5 manifestations this morning... not being able to auto target the boss as soon as his spawns (pulling his health bar instead) loses me like 25% of his HP because all the bots auto spam AI as soon as he pops. At this rate, I'd be lucky to even get just 1 of each item.

ATL Boss def needs way more HP to allow others to do enough damage to get looting rights; or just change the logic to whoever does more than 100 damage gets a drop.

Fenriswolf · November 3

so many flaws to the event, whats happening now on Europa is that everyone is lining up pre-dugup chests and waiting till the Boss is imminent then "Removing Traps" off all the preloaded chests so they spawn the boss (as the count only triggers on remove trap) and then just gating in their guild mates..easier top just give a reward to any Thunter who contributed at least say 4 points to spawning the boss, then this wouldnt happen (map lvl1s-5 so 1-5 points per map). The stuff in the Treasure chests isnt rare enough either, so im currently just filling up my house storage with potentially useless deco? Over 500 items so far

Arroth_Thaiel · November 3

Yesterday morning on Pacific, I used two accounts to help kill a Manifestation. There were a bunch of tamers and a couple throwers present, maybe 20 people total. Both my accounts used mages with EV's while casting Flamestrike with looping macros. The fight was a mess and lasted about 10 min, since only a couple of us would kill the Portals. I received looting rights and got a drop on both accounts. (Shout out to TimSt's alternate and a couple of the tamers who stuck around after the boss died to kill off the portals and clean up the masses of Shadow Reavers!)

Last night on Pacific I participated in killing two Manifestations. There were bot stacks at both. Each fight lasted around 60-80 seconds. I used a Spellweaver who did around 10 Flamestrikes (~50 points each) and 4 WoD (~650 points each) to each boss, in addition to all the damage tics from 2 EV's up the entire fight. The WoDs alone are around 2400 points in damage. I did not receive looting rights, let alone a drop, from either boss.

The bot stacks are funny, unbelievably easy to detect, and completely change the dynamic of the game. I have thought about setting up a second client and running my own bot stack, but I just don't want to. I'll keep chugging with the EC.

I will however stop playing during prime time for a while. As the event wears on, especially on smaller shards like Pac, people will get tired of doing the boss. Eventually, people are going to be begging in Gen Chat, even during prime time, for help killing the boss. I'll get my drops then.

firec · November 3

Well, Atlantic just went down for the time being.

Since I posted, the tip of selling maps has stopped - nobody is contributing them and nobody is buying the completed ones.

So... My choice is to help the server (which ends up being a bunch of garbage bots) and progress the maps... or to take the time to make a character who can actually compete with them.

This could have been so good, instead, it's just another flop.

Grimbeard · November 3

If things were shard bound (why suddenly not?) This would have stayed strictly an Atlantic problem now we have Atlantic trash ruining our small shards...

firec · November 3

Grimbeard said:

If things were shard bound (why suddenly not?) This would have stayed strictly an Atlantic problem now we have Atlantic trash ruining our small shards...

Pfft. I wish I could come be trash on your server I'm stuck on ATL. I guess though, if you don't fix the problem, the people that can are going to move to greener pastures and chew up all the grass there

Cookie · November 3

Grimbeard said:
If things were shard bound (why suddenly not?) This would have stayed strictly an Atlantic problem now we have Atlantic trash ruining our small shards...

I know no-one likes Atlantic players lol, and yes it is their fault they all ran to 1 shard like they have, they went there for what they thought were advantages, now they are seeing the disadvantages with their choice.
They made their bed, need to take the rough with the smooth.

HOWEVER.
Atlantic players spreading out to other shards is not really a problem, it is a rebalancing.

The event is working fine for our guild, yes it has its quirks, yes I agree with what a lot of players are saying about some of the problems, But every event has its style. People didn't want ToT style anymore, they asked for this, they got this. But we are playing the event hard, in an organised way and it is going fine.

Grimbeard · November 4

Cookie said:

Grimbeard said:
If things were shard bound (why suddenly not?) This would have stayed strictly an Atlantic problem now we have Atlantic trash ruining our small shards...
I know no-one likes Atlantic players lol, and yes it is their fault they all ran to 1 shard like they have, they went there for what they thought were advantages, now they are seeing the disadvantages with their choice.
They made their bed, need to take the rough with the smooth.

HOWEVER.
Atlantic players spreading out to other shards is not really a problem, it is a rebalancing.

The event is working fine for our guild, yes it has its quirks, yes I agree with what a lot of players are saying about some of the problems, But every event has its style. People didn't want ToT style anymore, they asked for this, they got this. But we are playing the event hard, in an organised way and it is going fine.

I welcome everyone but nothing is staying so smaller shards gain nothing

keven2002 · November 4

Grimbeard said:

Cookie said:

Grimbeard said:
If things were shard bound (why suddenly not?) This would have stayed strictly an Atlantic problem now we have Atlantic trash ruining our small shards...
I know no-one likes Atlantic players lol, and yes it is their fault they all ran to 1 shard like they have, they went there for what they thought were advantages, now they are seeing the disadvantages with their choice.
They made their bed, need to take the rough with the smooth.

HOWEVER.
Atlantic players spreading out to other shards is not really a problem, it is a rebalancing.

The event is working fine for our guild, yes it has its quirks, yes I agree with what a lot of players are saying about some of the problems, But every event has its style. People didn't want ToT style anymore, they asked for this, they got this. But we are playing the event hard, in an organised way and it is going fine.

I welcome everyone but nothing is staying so smaller shards gain nothing

You gain getting the manifestation boss taken out easier in record time... no more taking 10min to kill him; it's now done in 90 seconds (if that long).

Cookie · November 4

Grimbeard said:

Cookie said:

Grimbeard said:
If things were shard bound (why suddenly not?) This would have stayed strictly an Atlantic problem now we have Atlantic trash ruining our small shards...
I know no-one likes Atlantic players lol, and yes it is their fault they all ran to 1 shard like they have, they went there for what they thought were advantages, now they are seeing the disadvantages with their choice.
They made their bed, need to take the rough with the smooth.

HOWEVER.
Atlantic players spreading out to other shards is not really a problem, it is a rebalancing.

The event is working fine for our guild, yes it has its quirks, yes I agree with what a lot of players are saying about some of the problems, But every event has its style. People didn't want ToT style anymore, they asked for this, they got this. But we are playing the event hard, in an organised way and it is going fine.

I welcome everyone but nothing is staying so smaller shards gain nothing

If events keep happening like this, a rebalancing will happen.
Why would people all stay crowded together when it affects their ability to complete content.

Howdy, Stranger!

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How about giving a guaranteed drop chance to the TMapper(s) who spawned the Manifestation of Evil ?

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