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Cookie · June 21

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Venom · June 21

For #3, what's the argument for EQ over a Bola?

Cookie · June 21

Venom said:

For #3, what's the argument for EQ over a Bola?

The mage stays mounted, it takes longer to cast, but you don't dismount, lose shield or have to use a script doing it. It gives a mage an option over using a bola script.

sibble · June 21

Cookie said:

The worst part of PVP in the last 10 years is script automation and giving mages an AOE dismount isn't going to fix that.

I'm running around PVPing with people who don't even have buttons for potions because it's taken care of automatically for them. Don't need hotkeys for bandages if it's done automatically for them. Not to mention the relative walls, auto bolas, etc. The latest 3rd party clients have ruined PVP because it allows people to automate tasks very easily and efficiently removing any actual player skill gaps.

The only real solution is to bring Classic Client up to date with new QoL features that people are seeking, without the ability to automate tasks. Then ban every client that allows automation.

loop · June 21

Not the only solution but an understandable one.

The game would suffer a lot by the loss of automation in contexts outside of PVP. Would be interesting to see some kind of partnership or forking of certain apps (not the Russian one but the other one) and a repository of scripts that could be shared and rated by players.

Pie in the sky and fraught with issues that go beyond me. I don’t PVP and have no skin in the game, but I agree that adding other dismount mechanisms doesn’t do much if your beef is with scripting.

sibble · June 21

loop said:
The game would suffer a lot by the loss of automation in contexts outside of PVP.

Just wanted to add some context...

When I speak of automation I'm not talking about macros, I'm talking about automated actions with no player interaction like automatically using a potion when your health is 75% etc.

The QoL features, macros, etc. can all be still done in a way that doesn't let players automate actions without player interaction.

quickblade · June 21

sibble said:

Cookie said:

The worst part of PVP in the last 10 years is script automation and giving mages an AOE dismount isn't going to fix that.

I'm running around PVPing with people who don't even have buttons for potions because it's taken care of automatically for them. Don't need hotkeys for bandages if it's done automatically for them. Not to mention the relative walls, auto bolas, etc. The latest 3rd party clients have ruined PVP because it allows people to automate tasks very easily and efficiently removing any actual player skill gaps.

The only real solution is to bring Classic Client up to date with new QoL features that people are seeking, without the ability to automate tasks. Then ban every client that allows automation.

I couldn't agree more than this, well said

ForeverFun · June 21

sibble said:

The only real solution is to bring Classic Client up to date with new QoL features that people are seeking, without the ability to automate tasks. Then ban every client that allows automation.

I'd imagine the QoL functionality most seek is already part of EC. EC main complaint is the lack of CC graphics option. It hardly seems rocket science to provide that to EC; in fact, I think some of the recent artwork like the Ultima box art is a port from CC to EC, which is a down-rez technically.

Retrofitting EC like functions to CC seems a fairly tall order, on the other hand.

Broadsword internal usage of CC could be more problematic to port to EC, but that shouldn't stop progress on the player usage of EC.

Regarding mounts, thoughts:

The difficulty of dismounting a foe should perhaps take into account the type or slot count of the mount. e.g. dismounting an ethy should be easier than dismounting a 5 slot Cu.
The speed of mounts should not all be equal. Again, a 5 slot Cu should be able to outrun a 1 slot ethy or 1 slot horse.
From a PvM perspective, I've always thought it strange that any player mount can outrun say a skeletal dragon or various other flying beasts, as well as paragons.

keven2002 · June 21

@sibble pretty much nailed it. With the amount of scripting that goes on in PvP these days (the reason I stopped pvping many years ago), giving a mage the ability to AoE (or any other new way of dismounting) probably wouldn't change things as much as you think. It would most likely just give the people scripting yet another (and potentially more powerful) way to auto dismount.

Cookie · June 23

Scripts I don't mind so much, as long as they are available to all, and we are all playing the same game.

As someone who still pvp's, option 3, would have possibly made me not go to option 4. So those who say it would not do much etc, when I see the player-base does not even want to move the bar, then it leaves no option. {1, or 4, and I am not quitting yet}.

keven2002 · June 23

Cookie said:

Scripts I don't mind so much, as long as they are available to all, and we are all playing the same game.

That's the thing - scripts aren't available to all (I certainly don't have any or know where to get them) and we aren't all playing the same game (at least not on the same sanctioned clients).

Cookie said:

As someone who still pvp's, option 3, would have possibly made me not go to option 4. So those who say it would not do much etc, when I see the player-base does not even want to move the bar, then it leaves no option. {1, or 4, and I am not quitting yet}.

Somehow I don't think that not having the ability to area dismount as a mage is the straw that's breaking the camel's back and "forcing you to script" (assuming my interpretation of your last sentence is correct). It's more likely, in my opinion, that you either already have it in your head you are going to start scripting or you already do script and this idea is just something else to add to a script.

From my point of view, making the change to add something as powerful as a guaranteed area dismount would impact everyone in Felucca (even those that aren't looking to PvP) whereas not making the change is seemingly only going to impact you scripting vs not scripting. If that's the case, it's an easy decision here to leave things as they are. Just my 2 cents.

sibble · June 24

ForeverFun said:

I'd imagine the QoL functionality most seek is already part of EC. EC main complaint is the lack of CC graphics option. It hardly seems rocket science to provide that to EC; in fact, I think some of the recent artwork like the Ultima box art is a port from CC to EC, which is a down-rez technically.

Agreed, the main complaint I see about people not wanting to use EC is because "it doesn't look like CC". I fear only a percentage of them are being honest and the rest are using it as an excuse to explain why they script.

Also there would have to be some work done with the default EC UI as there are some bugs left to address.

Ultimately though, if they did make EC look like CC and locked the game down to only accept EC client I think the game would be in a much better place.

HeavySmoker · July 7

Bump, I have to agree with this.. I ping around 20-30 on the server and had a guy in ISS the other day teleport/dismount script me at full running speed with zero lag. Automatically teleported beside of me while I was running, and had time to jump off of his mount, toggle dismount ability, and swing before I could move 1 tile? If that isn't bad enough, I was able to get back on mount, just to be instantly dismounted again...

Some work arounds?

Add a timer to dismounted targets so that they can not be spammed with dismount..

Add a timer to how often you can use the dismount ability, as one person being able to dismount a whole guild in a matter of 10 seconds is pretty nuts.

The main fix here? Allow mounts to be shrunken, so that 99% of the players don't have to use a VvV town script in order to farm horses to counter all of this (Which is what happens and why most top level players have VvV mounts), those that do not have the script, suffer.

If we were allowed to shrink horses like Freeshards allow, then you could have a few shrunken mounts in your backpack so that when you get dismounted you at least have a way out.

Allow Pet Summoning Balls to work with certain pets in heat of battle such as horses.. There are work arounds, but they won't happen.

Garth_Grey · July 8

sibble said:

Cookie said:

The worst part of PVP in the last 10 years is script automation and giving mages an AOE dismount isn't going to fix that.

I'm running around PVPing with people who don't even have buttons for potions because it's taken care of automatically for them. Don't need hotkeys for bandages if it's done automatically for them. Not to mention the relative walls, auto bolas, etc. The latest 3rd party clients have ruined PVP because it allows people to automate tasks very easily and efficiently removing any actual player skill gaps.

The only real solution is to bring Classic Client up to date with new QoL features that people are seeking, without the ability to automate tasks. Then ban every client that allows automation.

And then there will be 7 people logging in and PvPng..

username · July 8

Ah the duality of PVPers:

Openly admit to cheating in PVP
Cries about people cheating in PVP

Waaaah people are cheating at PVP harder than I can cheat! Nerf their cheats but not mine!

Shut up. Cry somewhere else, you won't get sympathy here. And please, #1

Maybe while the Devs are at it just ban people that use 3rd party clients, problem solved!

Cookie · July 8

username said:

Ah the duality of PVPers:
Openly admit to cheating in PVP
Cries about people cheating in PVP

Waaaah people are cheating at PVP harder than I can cheat! Nerf their cheats but not mine!

Shut up. Cry somewhere else, you won't get sympathy here. And please, #1

Maybe while the Devs are at it just ban people that use 3rd party clients, problem solved!

At least we are playing hey.
Not pretending to play.

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