Macer Builds?

CovenantX · April 3

Macing Mastery is too good not to use tbh. stagger will allow you to stand face-to-face even if you don't run parry. if you keep stagger active, especially if you're also able to keep Toughness active as well.

Do PP vollems have -18 taming req or just newer ones?

Idk if i'd ever consider using one with my sampire, but my bard might like them... well, on the other hand they start at 2 followers, so if trained, i'd only have one... I feel like lowland bouras would likely still be superior.

CovenantX · April 3

popps said:

How do you keep the Vollem alive, though, without having veterinary ?

I doubt that the Chivalry Close Wounds spell can be of much help... sure, if the Dexer goes first and tanks the MoB, then the Vollem would not take damage but, Monsters retarget so, even if the Dexer goes first to tank the MoB, there is always the chance that the Vollem gets attacked by the MoB and, if it is a tough BOSS, a few hits could be enough to kill the Vollem...

So, may I ask how you manage to keep the Vollem alive ? Thanks.

all you have to do is stand on the same tile as the mob and flag it, it'll hit you primarily, Aoe would obviously still hit both you and your pet(s), but if you get used to it, even low FC chiv heals should be enough in most cases to keep a pet with reasonable hp (250-300+) and mid-high resists (50-70% to whatever you're fighting) alive.

someday I'll make a sampire/tamer and use my blood foxes.. the dps would be insane. (already unmatched with just discord + blood foxes against most mobs)

PlayerSkillFTW · April 4

keven2002 said:

PlayerSkillFTW said:

CovenantX said:

Bashing for stagger on pets for use with a sampire wouldn't be worth it tbh. you'd be better off using macing yourself and just run with a beetle for rune corruption.

cause if you level a pet up to add that ability, you'll need taming & lore to control it at that point, so you'd be looking at something with tons of skill increase.. and that's likely going to make it very hard to get a high-stat suit useful for a sampire, just to use pets for the random chance at stagger etc
the rune corruption, would be more useful since a beetle can be made to use only that, instead of wasting mana on other things that won't compliment your attacks.

Vollems start with -18 Taming Requirement, and so long as you keep it at 30.0 or below during the pet leveling process, anyone can control them. Most of my dexxers have a Vollem leveled once and given 120 Disco+AP. The Disco significantly debuffs the victim's offense and defense, and the AP debuff makes the victim take +10% more damage from all sources for 3 seconds.

@ PlayerSkillFTW - Do you find the Disco + AP to be more effective than stagger when using a vollem?

Yes. Giving a pet the "Bashing" Magical teaches them Mortal Strike, Concussion Blow, Disarm, as well as Toughness and Stagger. That's 5 abilities, so a lot of ability bloat, and so the pet isn't very likely to use Stagger, especially often enough to keep it active on the enemy. Plus, some enemies (like Medusa and Dread Pirates) you really don't want to Disarm, since their Wrest skill is far higher than their Weapon skill (Medusa's unarmed Base Damage is also much higher than her bow's Base Damage).

With just 120 Disco+AP though, the Vollem will stop attempting to use Discord once it succeeds on the opponent, and will focus all it's Mana on AP then, asides from the occasional Dragon Breath.

popps said:

PlayerSkillFTW said:

CovenantX said:

Bashing for stagger on pets for use with a sampire wouldn't be worth it tbh. you'd be better off using macing yourself and just run with a beetle for rune corruption.

cause if you level a pet up to add that ability, you'll need taming & lore to control it at that point, so you'd be looking at something with tons of skill increase.. and that's likely going to make it very hard to get a high-stat suit useful for a sampire, just to use pets for the random chance at stagger etc
the rune corruption, would be more useful since a beetle can be made to use only that, instead of wasting mana on other things that won't compliment your attacks.

Vollems start with -18 Taming Requirement, and so long as you keep it at 30.0 or below during the pet leveling process, anyone can control them. Most of my dexxers have a Vollem leveled once and given 120 Disco+AP. The Disco significantly debuffs the victim's offense and defense, and the AP debuff makes the victim take +10% more damage from all sources for 3 seconds.

How do you keep the Vollem alive, though, without having veterinary ?

I doubt that the Chivalry Close Wounds spell can be of much help... sure, if the Dexer goes first and tanks the MoB, then the Vollem would not take damage but, Monsters retarget so, even if the Dexer goes first to tank the MoB, there is always the chance that the Vollem gets attacked by the MoB and, if it is a tough BOSS, a few hits could be enough to kill the Vollem...

So, may I ask how you manage to keep the Vollem alive ? Thanks.

I know which situations are best to use my Vollem at, and which are not. I don't use my Vollem in large fights with numerous opponents where i'd have a hard time controlling the aggro, or against mobs with abilities that cause them to frequently target swap, like an AoE poison ability or such. Most mobs though, so long as you're sitting directly on top of them (same tile), they won't target switch.

In the rare instance that my Vollem does get hit and take damage, i use Close Wounds to heal him. I can also use Knight of Humility virtue to grant him +30 HPR for 20 mins.

popps · April 4

PlayerSkillFTW said:

popps said:

PlayerSkillFTW said:

CovenantX said:

Bashing for stagger on pets for use with a sampire wouldn't be worth it tbh. you'd be better off using macing yourself and just run with a beetle for rune corruption.

cause if you level a pet up to add that ability, you'll need taming & lore to control it at that point, so you'd be looking at something with tons of skill increase.. and that's likely going to make it very hard to get a high-stat suit useful for a sampire, just to use pets for the random chance at stagger etc
the rune corruption, would be more useful since a beetle can be made to use only that, instead of wasting mana on other things that won't compliment your attacks.

Vollems start with -18 Taming Requirement, and so long as you keep it at 30.0 or below during the pet leveling process, anyone can control them. Most of my dexxers have a Vollem leveled once and given 120 Disco+AP. The Disco significantly debuffs the victim's offense and defense, and the AP debuff makes the victim take +10% more damage from all sources for 3 seconds.

How do you keep the Vollem alive, though, without having veterinary ?

I doubt that the Chivalry Close Wounds spell can be of much help... sure, if the Dexer goes first and tanks the MoB, then the Vollem would not take damage but, Monsters retarget so, even if the Dexer goes first to tank the MoB, there is always the chance that the Vollem gets attacked by the MoB and, if it is a tough BOSS, a few hits could be enough to kill the Vollem...

So, may I ask how you manage to keep the Vollem alive ? Thanks.

I know which situations are best to use my Vollem at, and which are not. I don't use my Vollem in large fights with numerous opponents where i'd have a hard time controlling the aggro, or against mobs with abilities that cause them to frequently target swap, like an AoE poison ability or such. Most mobs though, so long as you're sitting directly on top of them (same tile), they won't target switch.
In the rare instance that my Vollem does get hit and take damage, i use Close Wounds to heal him. I can also use Knight of Humility virtue to grant him +30 HPR for 20 mins.

Thank you for the kind clarification.

May I ask you then, for which MoBs have you found a Dexer with a Vollem fighting together works best ?

Also, you always use your Macer together with the Vollem, given the superior tanking ability of the Macer character as compared to other Dexers types, or have you been able to also use Dexers other then a Macer for tanking purposes so as to also use a Vollem ?

The reason for this question, is that, I seem to understand, that while the Macer character has superior tanking ability as compared to other Dexers, its damage output, I gather is inferior to that possible with other Dexers.

Using a Vollem with Discord that halves the MoB resistances, I imagine would permit a Dexer other then a Macer with a higher damage output, to significantly reduce the time to kill...

Thanks.

keven2002 · April 4

I believe this topic on Disco vollems with a dexer has already been answered in another thread popps. Perhaps go search for it instead of turning this thread into another vollem thread.

Sorry Lily for going away from the original topic of a macer build... it seems to have snowballed

LilyGrace · April 4

Don't worry one little bit about it, Kev. All good info here! Thread drift never bothers me. I'm often guilty of contributing to it.

I'm just plugging away training up still. :-)

PlayerSkillFTW · April 5

CovenantX said:

Do PP vollems have -18 taming req or just newer ones?

Idk if i'd ever consider using one with my sampire, but my bard might like them... well, on the other hand they start at 2 followers, so if trained, i'd only have one... I feel like lowland bouras would likely still be superior.

PP Vollems also have the -18 Taming requirement. Current Vollems are actually best for Dexxers, due to going from 3 slot to 4 slot allowing them to have higher Base Damage than a PP Vollem going from 2 slot to 3 slot. PP Vollems though are actually best as bodyguards for a crafter/gatherer. You can level a PP Vollem from 2 slot to 3 slot, then still be able to use a 1 slot Giant Beetle and 1 slot Fire Beetle at the same time. My Prospector (120 Fishing/GM Mining/GM LJ) uses a PP Vollem leveled to 3 slots with Magery+AI as a bodyguard while harvesting, and it can kill virtually anything i encounter, on land or sea.

popps said:

The reason for this question, is that, I seem to understand, that while the Macer character has superior tanking ability as compared to other Dexers, its damage output, I gather is inferior to that possible with other Dexers.

Macers have slightly less damage output than Swordsman, due to Swordsman being able to use Onslaught to lower a resist by up to -20, which increases the damage output of their Double Strikes. Swords has a lot of good Special Move combinations on their 2H Weps as well, like DS+WW on Double Axe, DS+Feint on Daisho, AI on Bladed Staff, or DS+AI on Katana if they want to go 1H. Swordsman can also get more damage on axes with GM LJ skill.

Macer damage is on par with Fencers though, if not slightly higher.

CovenantX · April 5

PlayerSkillFTW said:

CovenantX said:

Do PP vollems have -18 taming req or just newer ones?

Idk if i'd ever consider using one with my sampire, but my bard might like them... well, on the other hand they start at 2 followers, so if trained, i'd only have one... I feel like lowland bouras would likely still be superior.

PP Vollems also have the -18 Taming requirement. Current Vollems are actually best for Dexxers, due to going from 3 slot to 4 slot allowing them to have higher Base Damage than a PP Vollem going from 2 slot to 3 slot. PP Vollems though are actually best as bodyguards for a crafter/gatherer. You can level a PP Vollem from 2 slot to 3 slot, then still be able to use a 1 slot Giant Beetle and 1 slot Fire Beetle at the same time. My Prospector (120 Fishing/GM Mining/GM LJ) uses a PP Vollem leveled to 3 slots with Magery+AI as a bodyguard while harvesting, and it can kill virtually anything i encounter, on land or sea.

good to know, clearly, I haven't done much with vollems. I do recall someone in discord saying they used a disco-vollem with their sampire, and I was expecting it to require taming to control.

typically if I'm doing any encounters I'll usually have my bard with my sampire anyway, as a protector or just another chance at drops, depending on the encounter.

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