Potential Issue w/ Dynamic Spawn?

I wanted to post here because this forum gets more eyes on it to actually confirm if this is a bug or maybe just me (if a couple people can confirm then @Mariah feel free to move it). I've had this happen to me twice now so it feels like it might be a bug but it's hard for me to recreate due to timing (more on that in a minute). 

I suspect that when the dynamic spawn is worked up to a certain level and then is stopped (before champ spawns) and goes back down to level 1 that the drops no longer spawn. I logged on this morning bright and early and nobody was at the spawn (it was at level 1). I started killing the mobs and worked it up to level 2 this time (last time I worked it to level 3) and even though I was the only one there; I didn't receive a single drop the entire time (both times). I compare this to when I'm on ATL where the spawns last all of maybe 10min? and I usually get at least 2 masks. I can't really recreate this because usually when I'm working a spawn it goes all the way through bc people will join in so it won't drop in candles. I also don't know for sure if someone worked it up or not because I'm just logging in so I have no idea what happened the previous 12 hours.

Anyone else able to confirm that when they log on to a low traffic shard during off hours if they have this issue? I suspect 1 or 2 people work the spawn but know they won't be able to finish so they leave. Once the candles start reverting to lower levels it basically jams up the drops (I'd assume until the alter is completely reset via server maintenance or working the spawn for no reward).

@Kyronix - If people can confirm this then it's probably something that should be fixed
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Comments

  • HippoHippo Posts: 167
    I logged on to Legends mid-day during the wave with Fan Dancers. Got six skull drops in 30 minutes then left because no one about. I usually get 1-2 drops during the spawn "frozen" period.
  • LarisaLarisa Posts: 841
    edited November 2021
    How long does it take for a spawn to de-advance? LOL that sounds funny.

    Okay so I'm here on Origin. Spawn was 2 candle...I worked it up to 3 reds, 4 whites and left. I got 3 drops.

    Sitting in Luna waiting for it to de-spawn. I know that 98% likely no one else has been there as server reset was not that long ago and I didn't see anyone else around but I don't know for sure.

    Okay so  Edited:

    Went back, it had lost the whites and was back down to just 3 red candles.

    4 AOE's later I have 5 drops INCLUDING a rare....BUT it's the SAME ONE I already have!!! Just my luck :/ lol.

    Anyway...I guess that answers your question? Yes you can still get drops.

  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 1,284
    Larisa said:

    Anyway...I guess that answers your question? Yes you can still get drops.

    Not quite. I don't think it stops when it just drops one candle. My guess is that it's when it's up at level 3 or 4 (14-15 reds) and then it drops back down to 3 reds. I've encountered this on Origin before the server goes down. There is like a solid 15min time span of me working the spawn from level 1-3 where I don't get a single drop.
  • LarisaLarisa Posts: 841
    I worked it to lvl 2 almost lvl 3 and left,  it dropped all the way back to 2 candle, no one was working it at all. When I went back I got more drops working it back up.

  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 1,284
    @Larisa - I just hoped on Origin and found the spawn to be on wave 1. I worked it with another samp up to mid wave 2 before typing this (about 10-15min) and neither one of us was getting drops. I suspect nobody every finished the spawn after you started it a few hours ago. I'm thinking that maybe whoever was working the spawn before would still get drops but maybe new people who come after it was started might not? 

    Not 100% sure but at this point it's now been 3 times where I've gone to find a spawn at level 1 (assuming they were worked earlier) and worked them past level 1 without a single drop whereas when I do ATL from level 1 I'm getting at least 1 from level 1 or 2. Seems like the other person at the spawn was experiencing the same.
  • Maybe there is a max number of drops per spawn, and that limit was exhausted?
    The new system is greatly improved vs. old, the number of possible participation drops seems much higher.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 1,284
    I agree it's better for sure but it seems like it could be an issue on the shards that are lower population where there might not be enough people on to finish a spawn. It becomes a chore to clear the spawn / kill the champ without a drop and I'm also not sure what would happen if the champ spawned and I killed it (since I wasn't getting drops would I get a belt?).

    @Larisa - I'll be back on in about 11-12 hours (before Origin shard maintenance) if you are around we can test.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,227
    I worked it a bit between 7-9 this morning Origin the spawn was fan dancers with a few 1st and 3rd waves got 3 or 4 drops disco tamer so not really fast killing 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • LarisaLarisa Posts: 841
    Yeah then you were there before me. I was on around 8 AM Central time and it was at 2 candles first lvl spawn. I worked it to just before lvl 3 then left to let it revert, went back and it was back down so worked it up a bit with one other person there and got more drops then left again before it hit lvl 3. I have never not gotten a drop.

  • SethSeth Posts: 2,411
    edited November 2021
    Allow me to add another potential issue to the dynamic spawn, even though it is a different issue from the OP but falls under the same subject header, so I hope it will benefit everyone. 

    When I joined in at the last tier around the time when the boss is about to pop, I tried to make up by hunting for the remaining monsters in the first 4 tiers. Twice, I found a handful around the fringe of the champ spawn area and did my best to kill some remaining critters from each tier. Then I joined in to finish up the boss. The result is that I did not get the belt. 

    So what I am trying to say is that the game mechanism does not count if you kill some of each tier, but it requires your presence throughout the 4 tiers. Another possibility is that it requires you to kill "substantial" numbers of each tier to be considered for the grand prize

    In summary, if you are late for the fight, don't waste time trying to make up for it. Wait for the next round and start fresh. 
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,227
    Seth said:
    Allow me to add another potential issue to the dynamic spawn, even though it is a different issue from the OP but falls under the same subject header, so I hope it will benefit everyone. 

    When I joined in at the last tier around the time when the boss is about to pop, I tried to make up by hunting for the remaining monsters in the first 4 tiers. Twice, I found a handful around the fringe of the champ spawn area and did my best to kill some remaining critters from each tier. Then I joined in to finish up the boss. The result is that I did not get the belt. 

    So what I am trying to say is that the game mechanism does not count if you kill some of each tier, but it requires your presence throughout the 4 tiers. Another possibility is that it requires you to kill "substantial" numbers of each tier to be considered for the grand prize

    In summary, if you are late for the fight, don't waste time trying to make up for it. Wait for the next round and start fresh. 
    This rather than encouraging people to join and help will discourage them..
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • LarisaLarisa Posts: 841
    I have killed the boss 9 times...I have 2 belts...why? Because when I go and see that it's on the last level or the boss is already up...I don't leave.....I help. I hope that's what other people are doing. I don't care about the stupid belt....it's a *Meh* piece and if I get more okay, if I don't..okay...I just want the rare heads.

    So not an issue..it's working as intended.....the second belt I got I arrived shortly before lvl 3 so I was there for at least 2 waves and got the belt, you just can't swoop in last minute which I like, and since the boss isn't an insane killing machine and is fairly easy, though time consuming, to kill with few people it's not really a thing.

  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,227
    I've gotten like 40 heads but no arch fiend 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,354
    edited November 2021
    40 belts stopped counting common masks at 100. No rare.

    McDougle said:
    I've gotten like 40 heads but no arch fiend 
    I never got any rare pink drop from dark forest either.  Rares don't like me.
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,411
    edited November 2021
    McDougle said:
    Seth said:
    Allow me to add another potential issue to the dynamic spawn, even though it is a different issue from the OP but falls under the same subject header, so I hope it will benefit everyone. 

    When I joined in at the last tier around the time when the boss is about to pop, I tried to make up by hunting for the remaining monsters in the first 4 tiers. Twice, I found a handful around the fringe of the champ spawn area and did my best to kill some remaining critters from each tier. Then I joined in to finish up the boss. The result is that I did not get the belt. 

    So what I am trying to say is that the game mechanism does not count if you kill some of each tier, but it requires your presence throughout the 4 tiers. Another possibility is that it requires you to kill "substantial" numbers of each tier to be considered for the grand prize

    In summary, if you are late for the fight, don't waste time trying to make up for it. Wait for the next round and start fresh. 
    This rather than encouraging people to join and help will discourage them..
    People who knows they get nothing but still join are the real helpers. 

    People who is in aware there is no reward but yet join are mostly for themselves. They will learn after one time, and the next time if they still do it then they are really helping.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,227
    I just enjoy doing spawns my Bard just stands in the insanity doing the bard dance!! I've got one kast eppellet to grab then will be spawning full time 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,354
    edited November 2021
    I have arrived at the second level and have not killed any of the last level mobs some rounds.  If I get a participation drop, I have gotten a belt. up to 46 now.

    Luckily LS has been doing each spawn while I am on.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,105
    edited November 2021
    McDougle said:
    I just enjoy doing spawns my Bard just stands in the insanity doing the bard dance!! I've got one kast eppellet to grab then will be spawning full time 
    @McDougle

    I guess that, in order to stand in the insanity, your Bard needs, to stay alive, to be REALLY fast at provoking really fast, several Mobs with several other MoBs...

    That is, I imagine, you must have a hell of a good Macro that works well when you just hit macro, hit macro, hit macro etc.. etc... without spending time to select targets... and all of the MoB around the Bard end up fighting another MoB.... all busy with one another....

    So I am curious, what is this damn good macro that you can use to just hit the macro a go-go, without worrying about having to manually select the targets of the provoke ?

    Are you using the Classic or the Enhanced Client, for this ultra fast Bard macroing to "stand in the insanity" ?
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,227
    Not really I'm always moving in a small circle pattern I'm in stone form with provo mastery running i only cast RC's then provoke i use mass sleep instead of peace because it's so much better and it doesn't use timer so i can provoke everytime 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 789
    Have played this event twice now and gotten two belts. First time I have played one of these events with a reasonable expectation of getting something good from the boss. Spend most of my time running away but kill what I can and help others to kill the boss. Have to say this is a big improvement from the other events.
  • AragornAragorn Posts: 285
    edited November 2021
    Probably another improvement is the boss will drop the normal / rare head (participation reward) no matter if you are qualified for the belt (boss) reward, to encourage late comer to join the boss fight. 

    Maybe there is a max number of drops per spawn, and that limit was exhausted?
    That's what I asked in another thread. I suspect the total no. of drops per spawn is 25. Possibly someone got all the 25 and didn't finish / advance to the boss then the spawn de-advance so other players won't be able to get further drops from this round?
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,227
    For first time last night I worked spawn from 1st wave to third with no drop 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 1,284
    Aragorn said:
    Maybe there is a max number of drops per spawn, and that limit was exhausted?
    That's what I asked in another thread. I suspect the total no. of drops per spawn is 25. Possibly someone got all the 25 and didn't finish / advance to the boss then the spawn de-advance so other players won't be able to get further drops from this round?
    This would actually make sense.... The total number of drops was given for that boss so they stop being given.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,105
    edited December 2021
    Aragorn said:
    Probably another improvement is the boss will drop the normal / rare head (participation reward) no matter if you are qualified for the belt (boss) reward, to encourage late comer to join the boss fight. 

    Maybe there is a max number of drops per spawn, and that limit was exhausted?
    That's what I asked in another thread. I suspect the total no. of drops per spawn is 25. Possibly someone got all the 25 and didn't finish / advance to the boss then the spawn de-advance so other players won't be able to get further drops from this round?
    If there is a CAP of 25 drops per Spawn, THEN, the Spawn mechanics should be changed so that, after sometime that the spawn does not advance or the Boss not killed (regardless whether there is no player working it or the player(s) present are not sufficient to advance the Spawn or kill the Boss in a reasonable amount of time), the Spawn would reset by itself, automatically.

    This is important, to my opinion, to address the problems that players coming late to this type of Spawn currently face which it is, they get no warning message that the CAP of items' drops has already been reached, therefore they waste their time killing MoBs without a chance to get any drops as possible because the CAP has already been reached by players working the Spawn before them, and also to address the problem of players getting "stuck" with a Spawn that either they do not have the ability to fight on their own, alone (after all, my understading is that this type of Spawn has been Designed as a "group effort", so asking to players to deal with it solo sounds contradictory to me....), or because players on that Shard (perhaps a low population Shard) have no longer the interest to deal with it, since they already got all the rewards they wanted from it.

    Late comers to this type of Spawn should not be penalized by the Spawn Design and get stuck with no ability to get drops because the CAP of drops has already been met and these players do not have the ability to finish the Spawn and reset it or, simply, lack the extensive time needed to finish it to reset or do not see it proper to waste so much of their time just to force the Spawn reset.

    Hence, the necessity to have it automatically reset, after it has not been finished in a set amount of reasonable time.
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,411
    edited December 2021
    What is the big deal that require a limit of 25 max? Aren’t they not 99% repeats where we just throw away, and everyone is just going after the rare masks? 

    If the concern is about farming, all that is needed is to set a lower probability of drop rate for the rare masks, or create another set of super rare neon masks with probability like 1 in 10,000.

    No one is complaining about spawn rate of the Blaze Cu.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,227
    Seth said:
    What is the big deal that require a limit of 25 max? Aren’t they not 99% repeats where we just throw away, and everyone is just going after the rare masks? 

    If the concern is about farming, all that is needed is to set a lower probability of drop rate for the rare masks, or create another set of super rare neon masks with probability like 1 in 10,000.

    No one is complaining about spawn rate of the Blaze Cu.
    Are there such limits on normal champ spawn drops only 25 pinks can drop? 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • FortisFortis Posts: 361
    They should put a normal boss so problem solve...not a boss that need 4 person and 20 minutes to kill
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,411
    edited December 2021
    McDougle said:
    Seth said:
    What is the big deal that require a limit of 25 max? Aren’t they not 99% repeats where we just throw away, and everyone is just going after the rare masks? 

    If the concern is about farming, all that is needed is to set a lower probability of drop rate for the rare masks, or create another set of super rare neon masks with probability like 1 in 10,000.

    No one is complaining about spawn rate of the Blaze Cu.
    Are there such limits on normal champ spawn drops only 25 pinks can drop? 
    Pinkies a little different because each piece is most likely useful, more or less.

    The reward masks are decors, and decors have lower or no value when it’s over supply. It’s like running for Yukio quest, after spending X time, but not even a throw of dice. At least we get a dice after each run to test our luck for the rare drop. And if we missed, the reward is trash decor.

    In this new quest there is no indication if the next hour is going to be well spent or is an “empty” quest. 

    What if there is a limit on number of PS each day and you won’t know if the limit is reached until you finish the spawn and you get zero PS. Then we are expected to say, “It’s alright, I have exhausted the limit for today. The time is well spent achieving nothing!”. Not even a dice.

    Interesting thing is so many of us debated during Yukio quest about drop rate but less so for this quest maybe because it’s a decor and they are not as rare as we thought. I also got “rares” after about 20- 30 runs.

    Yukio quest does not even need to kill a boss, you just need to kill TIME to get a dice throw to test your luck. So they gave us a boss with spawn and limited drop now. There is obviously less complain than Yukio quest. 
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 1,284
    McDougle said:
    Are there such limits on normal champ spawn drops only 25 pinks can drop? 
    Yes I believe there is a range for pinks which is actually much lower than 25 (I want to say it's like 1-6 but don't quote me on that exact range). The slight difference there is that someone can protect and that would double the output of pinks if the protector isn't killing spawn. I've solo'ed many spawns and there were times I never even got a single pink. I think the most I ever got for a single spawn might have been 4? 

    Fortis said:
    They should put a normal boss so problem solve...not a boss that need 4 person and 20 minutes to kill
    That might be tough given that when the event kicks off, especially on larger shards, a normal boss is going to die in about 2minutes and lots of people (probably less skilled people) wouldn't get a reward (and would need to wait until the event dies down). 

    I think that maybe another solution might be to allow a better chance at the rare drop (ie archfiend mask) when killing the champ. There is absolutely a fine line of balancing so having the champ drop crimmys every time to everyone isn't realistic, I get that, but there needs to be incentive to kill the champ (especially for those that weren't there for waves 1-3). I think maybe a 25% chance of getting an archfiend mask would help incentivize people coming to kill the champ even once they have all the demon belt drops they want. 
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,227
    I wondered only because if its an existing mechanic they might have trouble changing it
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
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