PvM : What works best, Resist CAPs raised to 75 (DCI 25), or DCI raised to 70 (Resists 65) ?

Seth

Balin_Wingnut said:

I just recently brought my DCI to 65 on my sampire. Honestly 5 points in resist is literally only 5 damage for a 100 point hit. I consider a HUGE hit to be around 60. So that would only save me about 3 points in damage. And since I've had to lower my DCI cap, I'm much easier to hit.

Raising DCI: now I have a chance to straight up not be hit at all by those mega melee hits. This means for a 60 damage hit, I might not take any damage.

 I've heard the argument for having it low for counter strike, and honestly, I don't need to kill things a bit faster. My main painpoint on my Sampire is how do I survive against the toughest mobs? Anything that I can survive through I can kill fast enough. Counter-strike does enable you to hit the enemy, which enables you to leech life, but I think I'd rather avoid some of those mega hits than take the chance that one procs counter strike.

Actually you are right DCI can avoid the melee damage completely. 

If main point is to survive, any damage reduction is welcome since most of the time my sampire dies while running away from a bunch of spell casters. I could not remember a time when it died from melee unless it’s against a life tainted like Osiredon. Even then it died because of spells not melee because I just take a step away from the water and it cannot hit me.

I think that is also why evasion is nerfed because it can parry spells and so has long cool off time now.

CA do not trigger a lot for double strike in 1v1 but trigger more when surrounded. It’s the same theory how we train parrying, because it triggers most when surrounded. So it does help when surrounded by a bunch of heavy spell casters with high Hp like Wind Eles.

Perhaps DCI is useful in avoiding archer hit altogether, but there are few that threatens survivability. Also agreed with Merlin that high DCI mostly used in pvp to avoid getting ganked by the powerful paralysis weapon attack like splintering, armor ignore and death strike from ninja…

McDougle

Evasion was nerfed because of PVP .... there's got to be a way to only apply these pvp  "fixes" in only pvp situations...woof woof says the dog archer who's regen rate is mathematically the same as a sampires leech ability.. woof 

Seth

McDougle said:

Evasion was nerfed because of PVP .... there's got to be a way to only apply these pvp  "fixes" in only pvp situations...woof woof says the dog archer who's regen rate is mathematically the same as a sampires leech ability.. woof 

Yup, but it proved the point in the discussion that spells is a bigger threat then melee. They don’t nerf parrying melee damage, but parrying spells are ‘frowned’ upon. 

In any case, that was my complaint when they extended cooling time for evasion to Pvm since it was for pvp, isn’t it? But no, they still do it for both. Why not different for pvm amd pvp like weapon damages and Eoo?

McDougle

Seth said:

McDougle said:

Evasion was nerfed because of PVP .... there's got to be a way to only apply these pvp  "fixes" in only pvp situations...woof woof says the dog archer who's regen rate is mathematically the same as a sampires leech ability.. woof 

Yup, but it proved the point in the discussion that spells is a bigger threat then melee. They don’t nerf parrying melee damage, but parrying spells are ‘frowned’ upon. 

In any case, that was my complaint when they extended cooling time for evasion to Pvm since it was for pvp, isn’t it? But no, they still do it for both. Why not different for pvm amd pvp like weapon damages and Eoo?

I've never understood why the first line in any pvp code wouldn't be 
Is this player in heat of battle then...
No more timer for mongbat attacks 
They could unnerf ninja and horrific beast (why only one necro form got shafted is beyond me) 
Etc
Etc
Etc

Khyro

Balin_Wingnut said:

I just recently brought my DCI to 65 on my sampire. Honestly 5 points in resist is literally only 5 damage for a 100 point hit. I consider a HUGE hit to be around 60. So that would only save me about 3 points in damage. And since I've had to lower my DCI cap, I'm much easier to hit.

Raising DCI: now I have a chance to straight up not be hit at all by those mega melee hits. This means for a 60 damage hit, I might not take any damage.

 I've heard the argument for having it low for counter strike, and honestly, I don't need to kill things a bit faster. My main painpoint on my Sampire is how do I survive against the toughest mobs? Anything that I can survive through I can kill fast enough. Counter-strike does enable you to hit the enemy, which enables you to leech life, but I think I'd rather avoid some of those mega hits than take the chance that one procs counter strike.

Not to get pedantic, but 5 resist would actually reduce by more than 3-5 points. You have to look at the raw damage, before your current resists are applied, and not take 5% off the already reduced hit.

If you were hit for 100 with 70 resists, the base hit would be around 334 damage. 

70 Resists: 334 * .30 = 100
75 Resists: 334 * .25 = 83

So 17 extra damage reduced.

Similar with a 60 damage hit, which would be 200 base damage:

70 Resists: 200 * .30 = 60
75 Resists: 200 * .25 = 50

An extra 10 damage reduced.

So 5% resist can actually make a sizable impact.

Your other point remains though, that DCI can give you 100% damage reduction by avoiding the hit altogether for melee hits.

McDougle

So is the DCI and HCI cap of 45 really another cap that's not really a cap? So if he's at 65 dci and the monster at 45 hci he's really 20 dci?

Pawain

Khyro said:

Balin_Wingnut said:

I just recently brought my DCI to 65 on my sampire. Honestly 5 points in resist is literally only 5 damage for a 100 point hit. I consider a HUGE hit to be around 60. So that would only save me about 3 points in damage. And since I've had to lower my DCI cap, I'm much easier to hit.

Raising DCI: now I have a chance to straight up not be hit at all by those mega melee hits. This means for a 60 damage hit, I might not take any damage.

 I've heard the argument for having it low for counter strike, and honestly, I don't need to kill things a bit faster. My main painpoint on my Sampire is how do I survive against the toughest mobs? Anything that I can survive through I can kill fast enough. Counter-strike does enable you to hit the enemy, which enables you to leech life, but I think I'd rather avoid some of those mega hits than take the chance that one procs counter strike.

Not to get pedantic, but 5 resist would actually reduce by more than 3-5 points. You have to look at the raw damage, before your current resists are applied, and not take 5% off the already reduced hit.

If you were hit for 100 with 70 resists, the base hit would be around 334 damage. 

70 Resists: 334 * .30 = 100
75 Resists: 334 * .25 = 83

So 17 extra damage reduced.

Similar with a 60 damage hit, which would be 200 base damage:

70 Resists: 200 * .30 = 60
75 Resists: 200 * .25 = 50

An extra 10 damage reduced.

So 5% resist can actually make a sizable impact.

Your other point remains though, that DCI can give you 100% damage reduction by avoiding the hit altogether for melee hits.

Excellent explanation of why players should put their pets resists to 80 in Phy Fire and Energy since only 5% or less mobs that do heavy damage do cold or poison damage. Setting them to a false balance of 70 really causes the pet to take unnecessary damage.  Or better option. Use pets, for the few encounters that have cold or poison damage, that have high resists in those as needed.

Khyro

Pawain said:

Excellent explanation of why players should put their pets resists to 80 in Phy Fire and Energy since only 5% or less mobs that do heavy damage do cold or poison damage. Setting them to a false balance of 70 really causes the pet to take unnecessary damage.  Or better option. Use pets, for the few encounters that have cold or poison damage, that have high resists in those as needed.

Wrong thread, but you do you buddy.

Seth

Khyro said:

Balin_Wingnut said:

Not to get pedantic, but 5 resist would actually reduce by more than 3-5 points. You have to look at the raw damage, before your current resists are applied, and not take 5% off the already reduced hit.

If you were hit for 100 with 70 resists, the base hit would be around 334 damage. 

70 Resists: 334 * .30 = 100
75 Resists: 334 * .25 = 83

So 17 extra damage reduced.

Similar with a 60 damage hit, which would be 200 base damage:

70 Resists: 200 * .30 = 60
75 Resists: 200 * .25 = 50

An extra 10 damage reduced.

So 5% resist can actually make a sizable impact.

Your other point remains though, that DCI can give you 100% damage reduction by avoiding the hit altogether for melee hits.

This gives me the reason to use normal dragon barding armour vs Paroxysmus. Even though it's just 8% more but based on the above it reduces a lot. Then further multiply by 8 when surrounded x 8 hits per 2 or 3 seconds. That is a lot of damage to resist. 

I remember reading the old sampire notes in stratics forum and the uoguide, the warrior always seek the maximum attack damage while maximising defense. I am glad to have studied and created this template since 2015.

@popps
You should get the swampy also... it comes with +20% melee damage reduction. 
Dragon Barding – Ultima Online (uo.com)

Normal dragon barding deed is 20% damage reduction up to 12000 points each. 
Paroxysmus dragon gives 12% reduction that does not expire. 

The table at uoguide gives more information on the dragon's resist etc. 
Dragon Barding Deed - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia
 
Welcome to the warrior's club!

McDougle

Unless you're a gargoyle then no damage reduction for you....

popps

Balin_Wingnut said:

I just recently brought my DCI to 65 on my sampire. Honestly 5 points in resist is literally only 5 damage for a 100 point hit. I consider a HUGE hit to be around 60. So that would only save me about 3 points in damage. And since I've had to lower my DCI cap, I'm much easier to hit.

Raising DCI: now I have a chance to straight up not be hit at all by those mega melee hits. This means for a 60 damage hit, I might not take any damage.

 I've heard the argument for having it low for counter strike, and honestly, I don't need to kill things a bit faster. My main painpoint on my Sampire is how do I survive against the toughest mobs? Anything that I can survive through I can kill fast enough. Counter-strike does enable you to hit the enemy, which enables you to leech life, but I think I'd rather avoid some of those mega hits than take the chance that one procs counter strike.

@Balin_Wingnut

thank you for sharing your experience.

If I understood what you are saying correctly, you are finding that you seem to gain more benefits from having a higher Defense Chance Increase CAP (and lower resists as a consequence) as compared to having a higher Resists' CAP (and a lower Defense Chance Increase CAP as a consequence) ?

That is interesting because, from what others have said in this thread, it looks to be that you prefer the opposite direction as to what others, in this thread, indicated that they preferred for themselves and their gameplay, that is, to have a higher Resists CAP at the expense of their DCI CAP.....

You mention of bringing your DCI CAP from 45 to 65 (20 points) which it lowered your resists for 20 points. Yet, you mention a reduction of 5 points in resists which, x 5, would be 25 points of resists' CAPs lowered...

Does this mean, that you lowered 5 points for 4 resists (5 x 4 = 20) and not for all 5 resists ?
In such a case, which of the 5 resists' CAP did you leave untouched at 70 ?

In terms of actual gameplay, "how much" raising your DCI CAP to 65 actually lowered the chance of getting hit at all ?

And, also, what about spell damage to your character ?

Sure, your character gets hit less in melee, but, when you get hit by spells, with a CAP of resists now at 65, no longer at 70, don't you get more damage ?

What I am trying to ask, is whether your "higher DCI lower resists" configuration, you found that it works well against melee hitters who do not cast spells (or not that much) but that, when it comes to a spawn with lots of spellcasters, that it does not do much well...

Bottom line is, I am just trying to understand whether you found your DCI/Resists configuration to be a 360 degrees configuration that works in all circumstances, or whether you just use it for some specific, limited hunts....

Thanks !

Seth

McDougle said:

Unless you're a gargoyle then no damage reduction for you....

I am planning to build one gargoyle warrior this time, after getting the new armor and gargoyle epaulette. Maybe a thrower… I have not seen anyone using a gargoyle sampire 

Its so hard to build a gargoyle. I was missing an artifact so I stopped last year. 

Seth

Hmm,

Maybe elf just need +5 fire resist to 75.
It already has 75 energy. Most attack spells are fire and energy.

Then he can reduce poison to 65 resist by deflecting refinement.

So overall will be
Phy 70
Fire 75 with +5
Cold 70
Poison 65 with -5
Energy 75 For elf 

So add 5, minus 5 resist, I suppose the DCI cap still 45? I am not sure if this is possible to use both types of refinement on the armors.

Pawain

Seth said:

Hmm,

Maybe elf just need +5 fire resist to 75.
It already has 75 energy. Most attack spells are fire and energy.

Then he can reduce poison to 65 resist by deflecting refinement.

So overall will be
Phy 70
Fire 75 with +5
Cold 70
Poison 65 with -5
Energy 75 For elf 

So add 5, minus 5 resist, I suppose the DCI cap still 45? I am not sure if this is possible to use both types of refinement on the armors.

One refinement per piece. You would need 10 pieces to get that.

You could get + 3 and minus 3. Using all 6 armor slots.

Pawain

@popps I really think this depends on play style and the abilities of the player.

Notice how you see both answers.

Also depends on your armor. Do you have a suit with 75 DCI? Getting 75 DCI is not easy. Armor with DCI usually has odd stats.

What DCI are you using now? If less than 45. Add resists. 

Pawain

I was only using 25 DCI on my macer. So I increased 15 resists. I use the 8 DCI fish pie as needed.

May be you could use some fish pies and see if more DCI is better if you are not at cap.

Seth

Pawain said:

Seth said:

Hmm,

Maybe elf just need +5 fire resist to 75.
It already has 75 energy. Most attack spells are fire and energy.

Then he can reduce poison to 65 resist by deflecting refinement.

So overall will be
Phy 70
Fire 75 with +5
Cold 70
Poison 65 with -5
Energy 75 For elf 

So add 5, minus 5 resist, I suppose the DCI cap still 45? I am not sure if this is possible to use both types of refinement on the armors.

One refinement per piece. You would need 10 pieces to get that.

You could get + 3 and minus 3. Using all 6 armor slots.

Yup, I will explore this method if dci is needed, but for now not so much. This is a good way to customise the gear to specific spawn.

Seth

Pawain said:

I was only using 25 DCI on my macer. So I increased 15 resists. I use the 8 DCI fish pie as needed.

May be you could use some fish pies and see if more DCI is better if you are not at cap.

Talking about macing, I was about to swap sword for macing, because the mastery gives 180 HP… I saw Bear Corpse used this method for the Abyss Stygian that is hard to solo… Its good for a boss type that is heavy hitter, and one that requires AI (no sword onslaught). 

If the boss fight uses double strike with the axe, then sword mastery onslaught will be useful.

Pawain

Macing:

None of the weapons have 2 useful specials Like a Double axe.

2 hand War hammer for WW. Or Black Staff.  I have Shadow hammers to make metal 100%s.
Whip has a useless second and is low damage.
War Hammer is very slow need lots of stamina/SSI.

A Staff for DS Low damage.  The AI weapons are one hand and low damage.

Not easy to make a Macer.  But Toughness and Bard buff takes you to 180HP.

Balin_Wingnut

1 what?

Mariah

No.  Hijacking threads with silly jokes has gone far enough. Off topic posts have been, and will in future be, removed.