Dynamic events, paragons, and mounted combat

popps

Yui_Zii_Ariya said:

Persistently whining about an imbalance fixes absolutely nothing (you know who you are).  Propose sensible well thought out, realistic and workable solutions and they can be debated.

I like my tamers as much as the next person but the constant.. "blah blah imbalanced... blah blah unfair... blah blah i want more drops..." is utterly pointless and will get you nowhere other than faster towards a lock!

Persistently whining about an imbalance fixes absolutely nothing (you know who you are).  Propose sensible well thought out, realistic and workable solutions and they can be debated.

I did propose a solution that some might not like, but I see it as workable and realistic and it would get the job done for quite a variety of Templates...

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/65893/#Comment_65893

The Developers, could adjust the code so that it "sees" what skills are being used to do the kills, and give, when it comes to decide whether that Template is or not awarded a Treasures of Artifact drop , a penalty to a skill that kills too fast, and a bonus to a skill that kills too slowly, 

Sort of like worn Luck but, in this case, not dependant on the worn Luck factor but, rather, on the skill used in-game factor....

A Template uses a Weapon skill to kill faster ? Give them a penalty in their chances to get a drop because they can, objectively, kill faster as other types of Templates.

A Template uses a Pet and, thus, Animal Taming skills to kill, but given how Taming works and is Designed to work, they can do it at a slower pace ? Give them a bonus in their chances to get a drop because they kill slower.

And so do the same with Bards, Rogues, etc.

Sure, it would need some testing to "iron out" the various differences in the ability of different Templates to get kills with different skills or, in the case of Rogues, to be able to steal Treasures of Artifact drops or get them from hidden chests and what not but, in the end, I would imagine that a somewhat balanced out "equilibrium " could be, with due testing, be achieved, to moreless make sure that different Templates would moreless get the same drops in the same amount of time (say 1 hour....) even though their killing rates differ much or, in the case of Rogues, would not exist at all.....

This is only 1 example which I brought up as a starter to favour a discussion on how to better balance out different Templates with different killing rates for these Treasures Of Event.

I would imagine that a Developer could come up with other, better ways to achieve such a balance among Templates in their drops' rates....

I see it as important, though, because the Developers HAVE TO set the cost for these Rewards, and when the Delta between players using Templates much slower at killing and players using Warriors Templates much faster at killing is so huge (60+ drops an hour compared to 5-10 ?), it does become an issue, to my viewing, the setting of Rewards costs...

Do the Developers set them as high, using the 60+ drops an hour as a meter, or do they set them using the 5-10 drops an hour as a meter ?

Either one, would be wrong, because setting them high, would then make the players using Templates with a slow killing rate and, thus, drop rate per hour, would result in them having huge difficulties in getting the nicer (and more expensive Rewards) while, setting them at a low cost, to permit players using Templates that have a slow killing rate and thus rate of drops, to be able to have access to them, would then enable those players using Warriors to get the highest kill rates and, thus, drops, to get these Rewards by the lots...

And even setting them somewhere in between, would still not be good.... it would still make it hard for those players using Templates with a lower kill rate and, thus, having fewer drops in 1 hour, and still would permit to players using Warriors for the higher kill rates and, thus, drops rate, to be able to get lots of these Rewards.

As I see it, only achieving a "moreless " balanced out, equalized drop rate per hour for the Templates usable in these Events, would then make the cost for Rewards set, fair and balanced for all of them.

Superfrog

popps said:

Yui_Zii_Ariya said:

Persistently whining about an imbalance fixes absolutely nothing (you know who you are).  Propose sensible well thought out, realistic and workable solutions and they can be debated.

I like my tamers as much as the next person but the constant.. "blah blah imbalanced... blah blah unfair... blah blah i want more drops..." is utterly pointless and will get you nowhere other than faster towards a lock!

Persistently whining about an imbalance fixes absolutely nothing (you know who you are).  Propose sensible well thought out, realistic and workable solutions and they can be debated.

I did propose a solution that some might not like, but I see it as workable and realistic and it would get the job done for quite a variety of Templates...

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/65893/#Comment_65893

The Developers, could adjust the code so that it "sees" what skills are being used to do the kills, and give, when it comes to decide whether that Template is or not awarded a Treasures of Artifact drop , a penalty to a skill that kills too fast, and a bonus to a skill that kills too slowly, 

Sort of like worn Luck but, in this case, not dependant on the worn Luck factor but, rather, on the skill used in-game factor....

A Template uses a Weapon skill to kill faster ? Give them a penalty in their chances to get a drop because they can, objectively, kill faster as other types of Templates.

A Template uses a Pet and, thus, Animal Taming skills to kill, but given how Taming works and is Designed to work, they can do it at a slower pace ? Give them a bonus in their chances to get a drop because they kill slower.

And so do the same with Bards, Rogues, etc.

Sure, it would need some testing to "iron out" the various differences in the ability of different Templates to get kills with different skills or, in the case of Rogues, to be able to steal Treasures of Artifact drops or get them from hidden chests and what not but, in the end, I would imagine that a somewhat balanced out "equilibrium " could be, with due testing, be achieved, to moreless make sure that different Templates would moreless get the same drops in the same amount of time (say 1 hour....) even though their killing rates differ much or, in the case of Rogues, would not exist at all.....

This is only 1 example which I brought up as a starter to favour a discussion on how to better balance out different Templates with different killing rates for these Treasures Of Event.

I would imagine that a Developer could come up with other, better ways to achieve such a balance among Templates in their drops' rates....

I see it as important, though, because the Developers HAVE TO set the cost for these Rewards, and when the Delta between players using Templates much slower at killing and players using Warriors Templates much faster at killing is so huge (60+ drops an hour compared to 5-10 ?), it does become an issue, to my viewing, the setting of Rewards costs...

Do the Developers set them as high, using the 60+ drops an hour as a meter, or do they set them using the 5-10 drops an hour as a meter ?

Either one, would be wrong, because setting them high, would then make the players using Templates with a slow killing rate and, thus, drop rate per hour, would result in them having huge difficulties in getting the nicer (and more expensive Rewards) while, setting them at a low cost, to permit players using Templates that have a slow killing rate and thus rate of drops, to be able to have access to them, would then enable those players using Warriors to get the highest kill rates and, thus, drops, to get these Rewards by the lots...

And even setting them somewhere in between, would still not be good.... it would still make it hard for those players using Templates with a lower kill rate and, thus, having fewer drops in 1 hour, and still would permit to players using Warriors for the higher kill rates and, thus, drops rate, to be able to get lots of these Rewards.

As I see it, only achieving a "moreless " balanced out, equalized drop rate per hour for the Templates usable in these Events, would then make the cost for Rewards set, fair and balanced for all of them.

Why penalize someone for being better than you? because that's what it boils down to. And you could have gotten several drops in the time you've wasted complaining on the boards about not getting drops. Don't you see the ridiculous nature of this?  Please just stop trying to pretend you know what you're talking about and just go learn how to play the game.

Riner

popps said:

I have been asking @ Kyronix  to balance these Event and have different Templates be more "equally" able to get drops yet, the answer which I was given was....

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/60800/#Comment_60800

• Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of gameplay.

You posted the answer way back on the first page. Accept it and move on. Not everything will change to your liking.

Superfrog

Riner said:

popps said:

I have been asking @ Kyronix  to balance these Event and have different Templates be more "equally" able to get drops yet, the answer which I was given was....

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/60800/#Comment_60800

• Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of gameplay.

You posted the answer way back on the first page. Accept it and move on. Not everything will change to your liking.

Indeed, Popps was told by Kyronix:

"Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game"

Be he just cannot accept that other people are better at UO than he is and wants the Dev's to penalize everyone else for being able to "problem solve".

Yui_Zii_Ariya

popps said:

I did propose a solution etc etc..

The essence of your proposal is to penalize someone who plays optimally not balance them, that in itself is unfair and unreasonable, it is not a solution.

popps said:

Do the Developers set them as high, using the 60+ drops an hour as a meter, or do they set them using the 5-10 drops an hour as a meter ? etc etc

The guy that got 60 drops in 1 hour played optimally and deserves the reward.  He 'chose' to play at a quiet time, he 'chose' to use a warrior, he 'chose' to ignore paragon balrons, he also 'chose' to spend real life money! Yes!  Real life money to improve his drop rate!

By your standard you want to penalize and take that all away from him because he decided to play optimally?  He focused his efforts and deserves the rewards.  For all you know he might play a tamer 90% of the time but understands a warrior is best in this situation.

Spend less time writing a novel and more time focused and killing and you too can reap the rewards.

McDougle

All this is possible except for damage reduction for gargoyles how long must the gargoyle people suffer even if it has been broken for decades it's never to late to do the right thing..

Jepeth

What’s frustrating about this forum is that every discussion has to devolve into, at best, a protectionist stance or, at worst, disingenuous cheer leading for the status quo. 

Yes, some content will lend itself to certain playstyles. But a strawman argument of "Well then my crafter should get equal drops!!" neither captures the issue nor adds anything new to the discussion. 

We are talking about a video game here, folks. Acting like tweaking the drop rates slightly or including a system which takes damage types into account (which, btw, already exists because pets do half damage compared to other builds) isn't "punishing someone's success." We're not nationalizing your farm because you have a tractor and your neighbor does not. Trying to make the game more fun via a greater diversity of approaches is the goal; not merely getting drops quicker. 

McDougle

When my bard gets hit by xxx amount of damage it knocks off my spell songs apply this to vampiric embrace and all is fine 

Superfrog

McDougle said:

All this is possible except for damage reduction for gargoyles how long must the gargoyle people suffer even if it has been broken for decades it's never to late to do the right thing..

Think of the Children!!

Violet

McDougle said:

All this is possible except for damage reduction for gargoyles how long must the gargoyle people suffer even if it has been broken for decades it's never to late to do the right thing..

Why do you even care about Gargoyles, they cannot wear top hats.

McDougle

Violet said:

McDougle said:

All this is possible except for damage reduction for gargoyles how long must the gargoyle people suffer even if it has been broken for decades it's never to late to do the right thing..

Why do you even care about Gargoyles, they cannot wear top hats


Maybe they can and that's how they get the damage reduction armored top hats

popps

Superfrog said:

Indeed, Popps was told by Kyronix:

"Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game"

Be he just cannot accept that other people are better at UO than he is and wants the Dev's to penalize everyone else for being able to "problem solve".

Be he just cannot accept that other people are better at UO than he is and wants the Dev's to penalize everyone else for being able to "problem solve".

First, you mistyped my handle (perhaps @Mariah or @Rorschach can edit this mistype and have my handle be written properly ?) , second, the argument is entirely NOT about who is better then who but, rather, of 1 type of a Template, the Warrior, being able to achieve a a Treasures of Artifacts drops rate which is unmatchable by other Templates.

And this imbalance, forces players who want to have access to the Rewards from these Events, to have to play a Template other then the one that they may prefer and enjoy.

In this meantime, I wanted to do a test with my newly made Warrior... mind you, I am a Tamer at heart and never ever have played a Warrior before nor have a proper suit for it...

My Damage increase on the suit is only 75% as I lack either a Cameo or another Talisman with the needed 25% DI I am missing, I do not have Feudal Grips.... basically, I am just using a plain vanilla "starter" Warriors suit....

Well, to end it short, I fired up some luck, invested 200 Sovereings in a Luck Potion and got myself 30 drops in 1 hour.

And I am a total noob, do not know how to play a Warrior properly, do not have a proper suit, died several times and wasted time to get back at entrance to get ressed and back to my corpse, perhaps even lost a few drops not having insured them before I died...

There is NO WAY, that I would have been able to kill that fast with my Tamer and get those many drops, no way.

Like it or not, there DOES IS, to my opinion, a gross imbalance between how different Templates can handle these Treasures of Events and, to my humble opinion, for the better sake of Ultima Online and its well known diversity of Templates, I think that it should be addressed by the Developers to more equalize and bring on an equal footing, the ability for different Templates to get these Treasures of Artifact drops.

Superfrog

popps said:

Superfrog said:

Indeed, Popps was told by Kyronix:

"Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game"

Be he just cannot accept that other people are better at UO than he is and wants the Dev's to penalize everyone else for being able to "problem solve".

Be he just cannot accept that other people are better at UO than he is and wants the Dev's to penalize everyone else for being able to "problem solve".

First, there is no need to mistype my handle (perhaps @ Mariah or @ Rorschach can edit these mistypes and have my handle be written properly ?) , second, the argument is entirely NOT about who is better then who but, rather, of 1 type of a Template, the Warrior, being able to achieve a a Treasures of Artifacts drops rate which is unmatchable by other Templates.

And this imbalance, forces players who want to have access to the Rewards from these Events, to have to play a Template other then the one that they may prefer and enjoy.

In this meantime, I wanted to do a test with my newly made Warrior... mind you, I am a Tamer at heart and never ever have played a Warrior before nor have a proper suit for it...

My Damage increase on the suit is only 75% as I lack either a Cameo or another Talisman with the needed 25% DI I am missing, I do not have Feudal Grips.... basically, I am just using a plain vanilla "starter" suit....

Well, to end it short, I fired up some luck, invested 200 Sovereings in a Luck Potion and got myself 30 drops in 1 hour.

And I am a total noob, do not know how to play a Warrior properly, do not have a proper suit, died several times and wasted time to get back at entrance to get ressed and back to my corpse, perhaps even lost a few drops not having insured them before I died...

There is NO WAY, that I would have been able to kill that fast with my Tamer and get those many drops, no way.

Like it or not, there DOES IS, to my opinion, a gross imbalance between how different Templates can handle these Treasures of Events and, to my humble opinion, for the better sake of Ultima Online and its well known diversity of Templates, I think that it should be addressed by the Developers to more equalize and bring on an equal footing, the ability for different Templates to get these Treasures of Artifact drops.

Again Popps, just because you cannot do it, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. I can get plenty of drops on my tamer to get what I want. as Kyronix said

 "Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game" 

I bolded what you need to accept. there are instances a tamer is what is needed as well. I use mine when the dungeon is full of Paragon Balrons, I sic my weaver Cu on them, start consume, stand behind them with my bandage macro, and after the Cu has it's full attention the other templates wail on it until dead, rinse and repeat until they are cleared out. I then continue playing on the Tamer for a while and usually get the 10-15 drops per hour my Sampire does.  Instead of whining to get the Devs to give everyone a trophy, just go learn to play better on your preferred template or learn another. your choice Poops.  

McDougle

I for one want nothing nerfed the opposite i want everything unnerfed the only difference between a sampire leech rate and a dog archer regen is one is pvp viable the other not so we force everyone to be the same 

popps

Superfrog said:

popps said:

Superfrog said:

Indeed, Popps was told by Kyronix:

"Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game"

Be he just cannot accept that other people are better at UO than he is and wants the Dev's to penalize everyone else for being able to "problem solve".

Be he just cannot accept that other people are better at UO than he is and wants the Dev's to penalize everyone else for being able to "problem solve".

First, there is no need to mistype my handle (perhaps @ Mariah or @ Rorschach can edit these mistypes and have my handle be written properly ?) , second, the argument is entirely NOT about who is better then who but, rather, of 1 type of a Template, the Warrior, being able to achieve a a Treasures of Artifacts drops rate which is unmatchable by other Templates.

And this imbalance, forces players who want to have access to the Rewards from these Events, to have to play a Template other then the one that they may prefer and enjoy.

In this meantime, I wanted to do a test with my newly made Warrior... mind you, I am a Tamer at heart and never ever have played a Warrior before nor have a proper suit for it...

My Damage increase on the suit is only 75% as I lack either a Cameo or another Talisman with the needed 25% DI I am missing, I do not have Feudal Grips.... basically, I am just using a plain vanilla "starter" suit....

Well, to end it short, I fired up some luck, invested 200 Sovereings in a Luck Potion and got myself 30 drops in 1 hour.

And I am a total noob, do not know how to play a Warrior properly, do not have a proper suit, died several times and wasted time to get back at entrance to get ressed and back to my corpse, perhaps even lost a few drops not having insured them before I died...

There is NO WAY, that I would have been able to kill that fast with my Tamer and get those many drops, no way.

Like it or not, there DOES IS, to my opinion, a gross imbalance between how different Templates can handle these Treasures of Events and, to my humble opinion, for the better sake of Ultima Online and its well known diversity of Templates, I think that it should be addressed by the Developers to more equalize and bring on an equal footing, the ability for different Templates to get these Treasures of Artifact drops.

Again Popps, just because you cannot do it, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. I can get plenty of drops on my tamer to get what I want. as Kyronix said

 "Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game" 

I bolded what you need to accept. there are instances a tamer is what is needed as well. I use mine when the dungeon is full of Paragon Balrons, I sic my weaver Cu on them, start consume, stand behind them with my bandage macro, and after the Cu has it's full attention the other templates wail on it until dead, rinse and repeat until they are cleared out. I then continue playing on the Tamer for a while and usually get the 10-15 drops per hour my Sampire does.  Instead of whining to get the Devs to give everyone a trophy, just go learn to play better on your preferred template or learn another. your choice Popps.  

These Treasure of Events is pretty much what we have been getting for a while now and, my understanding is, that they are what we will be getting on also for a while for the future.

Therefore, if their Design is geared towards favouring pretty much a single type of a Template, guess what ? That's what most players will be using to get them the most drops in the least time....

It might look fine to some, but it does not to me because I think that it kills the Templates' variety other then for the occasional 1 or 2 tamers or Bard (unless on trail of a Warrior to buff him/her further up....) that one might still see, rarely, in the Treasures of Events Dungeons.

Instead of whining to get the Devs to give everyone a trophy, just go learn to play better on your preferred template or learn another. your choice Popps.  

It looks like you may again have mistyped my handle... how odd.... again, perhaps @Mariah or @Rorschach can correct that mistype.... you keep bringing my argument on a personal basis as if I kept discussing on this one topic becaue I had a problem in getting drops.... well, for the record, since the Event Started, I got 480 Demonic Forces drops.... while not being as many as others may have gotten, they are not exactly a low number, and we still have more then a month to go with this Event...

So, it is not my problem in getting drops, I adjusted and made a Warrior...... unfortunately (I would much more prefer to play my Tamer...).

My argument, rather, is that I really have a problem with how the Design of this particular type of Event handles, unequally, to my opinion, the ability of different Templates to get drops and, consequentially, yield Rewards to players.

I think that, for the better sake of Ultima Online as a whole, the Design of these Treasures of Events should be more "equalized" among different Templates in their ability to get Treasures of Artifact drops in the same amount of time and, thus, provide to players playing different Templates, not so much inequality in their ability to be able to claim the offered Rewards.

popps

Yui_Zii_Ariya said:

popps said:

I did propose a solution etc etc..

The essence of your proposal is to penalize someone who plays optimally not balance them, that in itself is unfair and unreasonable, it is not a solution.

popps said:

Do the Developers set them as high, using the 60+ drops an hour as a meter, or do they set them using the 5-10 drops an hour as a meter ? etc etc

The guy that got 60 drops in 1 hour played optimally and deserves the reward.  He 'chose' to play at a quiet time, he 'chose' to use a warrior, he 'chose' to ignore paragon balrons, he also 'chose' to spend real life money! Yes!  Real life money to improve his drop rate!

By your standard you want to penalize and take that all away from him because he decided to play optimally?  He focused his efforts and deserves the rewards.  For all you know he might play a tamer 90% of the time but understands a warrior is best in this situation.

Spend less time writing a novel and more time focused and killing and you too can reap the rewards.

By your standard you want to penalize and take that all away from him because he decided to play optimally?  He focused his efforts and deserves the rewards.  For all you know he might play a tamer 90% of the time but understands a warrior is best in this situation.

Too bad, though, that " this " situation, seems to be being " THE " situation....

How so ?

We have been getting these "Treasures Of" types of Events for a while now, and my understanding is, that we will be getting them for quite a while to come, also....

So, "this" situation seems to me to be being pretty much a quite long term scenario.... nothing short lasting at all....

That is why, being such long lasting, apparently, I think that it should be much better balanced out among the different Templates which players could be using there.

If it was a one time Event of a weekend, or even going on for a couple of weeks, I would not bother.

But these Events are pretty much what we are getting and what are involving players for the largest part of their logged in time.

That's why I keep saying that, therefore, they should be much better balanced out for the various Templates that players could be using with them.

Because seeing variety of Templates being used at these Event which take up so much time of players, I think it as important for Ultima Online as a whole.

Pawain

Violet said:

So one of the things I've  learned from this thread is Pawain still doesn't understand a year later that paragons in Ilshenar are different than Treasures paragons.  

 Not all tamers are like Pawain sitting in a room while playing other characters/watching netflix.

Try Tritons. They munch them the same, just takes longer with just pets since they do 1/2 damage.  My archer tamer speeds it up. Use the game mechanic of someone exiting the floor. The paragon seems stunned long enough for you to get pets on it. They rarely target one of my tamers on the steps. If a lot of players run around then they might more often. I know how to invis and walk away if that happens.

My tamers sit in an empty room. If you read, I told you they get about two drops an hour. I play my warriors in these dungeons. The tamers are for para balrons and to gate my dead warrior to a res.  Most of the time they are on the entry steps to kill paragons on the first floor for others. I am quite involved playing in these.  Yoshi is the afk tamer.

But that's not why I am replying.

I have seen videos of you or kyro casting spells at warp speed.  I think if @popps saw that he would complain that mages kill things too fast.

Superfrog

popps said:

Superfrog said:

popps said:

Superfrog said:

Indeed, Popps was told by Kyronix:

"Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game"

Be he just cannot accept that other people are better at UO than he is and wants the Dev's to penalize everyone else for being able to "problem solve".

Be he just cannot accept that other people are better at UO than he is and wants the Dev's to penalize everyone else for being able to "problem solve".

First, there is no need to mistype my handle (perhaps @ Mariah or @ Rorschach can edit these mistypes and have my handle be written properly ?) , second, the argument is entirely NOT about who is better then who but, rather, of 1 type of a Template, the Warrior, being able to achieve a a Treasures of Artifacts drops rate which is unmatchable by other Templates.

And this imbalance, forces players who want to have access to the Rewards from these Events, to have to play a Template other then the one that they may prefer and enjoy.

In this meantime, I wanted to do a test with my newly made Warrior... mind you, I am a Tamer at heart and never ever have played a Warrior before nor have a proper suit for it...

My Damage increase on the suit is only 75% as I lack either a Cameo or another Talisman with the needed 25% DI I am missing, I do not have Feudal Grips.... basically, I am just using a plain vanilla "starter" suit....

Well, to end it short, I fired up some luck, invested 200 Sovereings in a Luck Potion and got myself 30 drops in 1 hour.

And I am a total noob, do not know how to play a Warrior properly, do not have a proper suit, died several times and wasted time to get back at entrance to get ressed and back to my corpse, perhaps even lost a few drops not having insured them before I died...

There is NO WAY, that I would have been able to kill that fast with my Tamer and get those many drops, no way.

Like it or not, there DOES IS, to my opinion, a gross imbalance between how different Templates can handle these Treasures of Events and, to my humble opinion, for the better sake of Ultima Online and its well known diversity of Templates, I think that it should be addressed by the Developers to more equalize and bring on an equal footing, the ability for different Templates to get these Treasures of Artifact drops.

Again Popps, just because you cannot do it, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. I can get plenty of drops on my tamer to get what I want. as Kyronix said

 "Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game" 

I bolded what you need to accept. there are instances a tamer is what is needed as well. I use mine when the dungeon is full of Paragon Balrons, I sic my weaver Cu on them, start consume, stand behind them with my bandage macro, and after the Cu has it's full attention the other templates wail on it until dead, rinse and repeat until they are cleared out. I then continue playing on the Tamer for a while and usually get the 10-15 drops per hour my Sampire does.  Instead of whining to get the Devs to give everyone a trophy, just go learn to play better on your preferred template or learn another. your choice Popps.  

These Treasure of Events is pretty much what we have been getting for a while now and, my understanding is, that they are what we will be getting on also for a while for the future.

Therefore, if their Design is geared towards favouring pretty much a single type of a Template, guess what ? That's what most players will be using to get them the most drops in the least time....

It might look fine to some, but it does not to me because I think that it kills the Templates' variety other then for the occasional 1 or 2 tamers or Bard (unless on trail of a Warrior to buff him/her further up....) that one might still see, rarely, in the Treasures of Events Dungeons.

Instead of whining to get the Devs to give everyone a trophy, just go learn to play better on your preferred template or learn another. your choice Popps.  

It looks like you may again have mistyped my handle... how odd.... again, perhaps @ Mariah or @ Rorschach can correct that mistype.... you keep bringing my argument on a personal basis as if I kept discussing on this one topic becaue I had a problem in getting drops.... well, for the record, since the Event Started, I got 480 Demonic Forces drops.... while not being as many as others may have gotten, they are not exactly a low number, and we still have more then a month to go with this Event...

So, it is not my problem in getting drops, I adjusted and made a Warrior...... unfortunately (I would much more prefer to play my Tamer...).

My argument, rather, is that I really have a problem with how the Design of this particular type of Event handles, unequally, to my opinion, the ability of different Templates to get drops and, consequentially, yield Rewards to players.

I think that, for the better sake of Ultima Online as a whole, the Design of these Treasures of Events should be more "equalized" among different Templates in their ability to get Treasures of Artifact drops in the same amount of time and, thus, provide to players playing different Templates, not so much inequality in their ability to be able to claim the offered Rewards.

Popps, these events were mentioned as being quick and easy content for the team to turn on for us while they work on the new shard, something they could put together quickly for us while they are focusing on it IIRC. this means that they wont be all "we will be getting on also for a while for the future." just what we are getting now. Are you ignoring where Kyronix said:

 "Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game"

on purpose? or are you, as I suspect, just a bigger troll than me?

Yui_Zii_Ariya

popps said:

But these Events are pretty much what we are getting and what are involving players for the largest part of their logged in time.

I personally played this event for the first 5-6 days on my warrior, got everything I wanted and then went back to playing the characters I prefer, my thief, my T-hunter, my tamer, crafting etc.  Doing the things I enjoy doing.

Lets be real here, no one is doing Hythloth 12+ hours for fun, they are doing it for the items.  Go with the flow, get the items you want, get out and do the things you enjoy doing, there is plenty going at the moment not Just ToH.

Repeating the same thing over and over again in your posts will not get you a different answer, nor will it change the current event.

When the next 'Treasures of' event is announced get yourself on to the test shard and voice your opinions.

Superfrog

Yui_Zii_Ariya said:

popps said:

But these Events are pretty much what we are getting and what are involving players for the largest part of their logged in time.

I personally played this event for the first 5-6 days on my warrior, got everything I wanted and then went back to playing the characters I prefer, my thief, my T-hunter, my tamer, crafting etc.  Doing the things I enjoy doing.

Lets be real here, no one is doing Hythloth 12+ hours for fun, they are doing it for the items.  Go with the flow, get the items you want, get out and do the things you enjoy doing, there is plenty going at the moment not Just ToH.

Repeating the same thing over and over again in your posts will not get you a different answer, nor will it change the current event.

When the next 'Treasures of' event is announced get yourself on to the test shard and voice your opinions.

See, someone with sense. We should all be this wise.

Jepeth

Superfrog said:

Popps, these events were mentioned as being quick and easy content for the team to turn on for us while they work on the new shard, something they could put together quickly for us while they are focusing on it IIRC. this means that they wont be all "we will be getting on also for a while for the future." just what we are getting now. Are you ignoring where Kyronix said:

 "Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game"

Other games and other MMOs are constantly tweaking at their systems to balance gameplay. Acting like class imbalance in Ultima Online is a feature is a weird position to take.

I don't think we should read Kyronix's statement there as an endorsement of the status quo persisting forever. Nor should it be thrown up as doctrine whenever people are trying to discuss ongoing issues within the game. These issues go beyond our current events.

In fact, at the most recent Meet N Greet they did tell us that dropped minor artifacts appearing in the dungeon treasure chests are on the development plan for these events. Things can and will change.

To redirect this conversation, instead of nerfing anything about what currently is and is not the meta for getting drops in the dungeon what could any of you see added that would increase the range of gameplay options? 

So for me I wish the game overall, but especially events like these, better utilized the group mechanic. Wrac's initial point was about the trouble of melee characters leading para spawn onto others. The game provides no incentive for a mage character to provide support in these situations. Casting energy walls, or paralyze, or other defensive spells provides zero drops. If a melee character and a mage character were in a group and the system was smart enough to count the number of spell casts towards the chance of a drop I think we'd see a greater diversity of templates taking these events on together. We sampires who don't want to group can still go at it alone! We can still ride our swampies and whirlwind our little elf hearts out. But now the game is providing options. Options and strategies beyond the current meta which, I think no one disagrees with, favors a small number of combat builds compared to the totality of Ultima Online.

popps

Yui_Zii_Ariya said:

popps said:

But these Events are pretty much what we are getting and what are involving players for the largest part of their logged in time.

I personally played this event for the first 5-6 days on my warrior, got everything I wanted and then went back to playing the characters I prefer, my thief, my T-hunter, my tamer, crafting etc.  Doing the things I enjoy doing.

Lets be real here, no one is doing Hythloth 12+ hours for fun, they are doing it for the items.  Go with the flow, get the items you want, get out and do the things you enjoy doing, there is plenty going at the moment not Just ToH.

Repeating the same thing over and over again in your posts will not get you a different answer, nor will it change the current event.

When the next 'Treasures of' event is announced get yourself on to the test shard and voice your opinions.

When the next 'Treasures of' event is announced get yourself on to the test shard and voice your opinions.

If something requiring more work needs to change in the Design of these Treasures of Events, it needs to happen well before the Testing window for next Treasures of Event...

I noticed that these Tests are pretty much short, and usually only some fine tuning to them may happen...

Major changes, like for example working on a way to more balace out the performance of different Templates handling this particular Event, I would imagine would need more time as whatever window there was, when the Publish got on the Test Shard....

Test server is more for little adjustments, I think.

Superfrog

Jepeth said:

Superfrog said:

Popps, these events were mentioned as being quick and easy content for the team to turn on for us while they work on the new shard, something they could put together quickly for us while they are focusing on it IIRC. this means that they wont be all "we will be getting on also for a while for the future." just what we are getting now. Are you ignoring where Kyronix said:

 "Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game"

Other games and other MMOs are constantly tweaking at their systems to balance gameplay. Acting like class imbalance in Ultima Online is a feature is a weird position to take.

I don't think we should read Kyronix's statement there as an endorsement of the status quo persisting forever. Nor should it be thrown up as doctrine whenever people are trying to discuss ongoing issues within the game. These issues go beyond our current events.

In fact, at the most recent Meet N Greet they did tell us that dropped minor artifacts appearing in the dungeon treasure chests are on the development plan for these events. Things can and will change.

To redirect this conversation, instead of nerfing anything about what currently is and is not the meta for getting drops in the dungeon what could any of you see added that would increase the range of gameplay options? 

So for me I wish the game overall, but especially events like these, better utilized the group mechanic. Wrac's initial point was about the trouble of melee characters leading para spawn onto others. The game provides no incentive for a mage character to provide support in these situations. Casting energy walls, or paralyze, or other defensive spells provides zero drops. If a melee character and a mage character were in a group and the system was smart enough to count the number of spell casts towards the chance of a drop I think we'd see a greater diversity of templates taking these events on together. We sampires who don't want to group can still go at it alone! We can still ride our swampies and whirlwind our little elf hearts out. But now the game is providing options. Options and strategies beyond the current meta which, I think no one disagrees with, favors a small number of combat builds compared to the totality of Ultima Online.

I sort of agree, but there isn't total class imbalance, one template is better at one thing, and another is better at other things, and there is also being skilled with the template. some people get how to play a template to it's potential and other's don't. there is no total class imbalance that i can see but there may be room for improvement, there always is after all. Popps likes to pretend he is doing this for "the little uo player" and that there is no way it can be done without there being an imbalance, if he cannot do it.  there is no need for a nerf to this, or a buff to that. but people certainly do need to get on test when these hit and give feedback so things can be tweaked before launch:

"I don't think we should read Kyronix's statement there as an endorsement of the status quo persisting forever. Nor should it be thrown up as doctrine whenever people are trying to discuss ongoing issues within the game. These issues go beyond our current events."

I wouldn't bring it up if popps would quit ignoring it and admit that some things should be done better by one template than another. If they do everything equally, why have different templates to begin with? that is just unnecessary and boring.

popps

Jepeth said:

Superfrog said:

Popps, these events were mentioned as being quick and easy content for the team to turn on for us while they work on the new shard, something they could put together quickly for us while they are focusing on it IIRC. this means that they wont be all "we will be getting on also for a while for the future." just what we are getting now. Are you ignoring where Kyronix said:

 "Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game"

Other games and other MMOs are constantly tweaking at their systems to balance gameplay. Acting like class imbalance in Ultima Online is a feature is a weird position to take.

I don't think we should read Kyronix's statement there as an endorsement of the status quo persisting forever. Nor should it be thrown up as doctrine whenever people are trying to discuss ongoing issues within the game. These issues go beyond our current events.

In fact, at the most recent Meet N Greet they did tell us that dropped minor artifacts appearing in the dungeon treasure chests are on the development plan for these events. Things can and will change.

To redirect this conversation, instead of nerfing anything about what currently is and is not the meta for getting drops in the dungeon what could any of you see added that would increase the range of gameplay options? 

So for me I wish the game overall, but especially events like these, better utilized the group mechanic. Wrac's initial point was about the trouble of melee characters leading para spawn onto others. The game provides no incentive for a mage character to provide support in these situations. Casting energy walls, or paralyze, or other defensive spells provides zero drops. If a melee character and a mage character were in a group and the system was smart enough to count the number of spell casts towards the chance of a drop I think we'd see a greater diversity of templates taking these events on together. We sampires who don't want to group can still go at it alone! We can still ride our swampies and whirlwind our little elf hearts out. But now the game is providing options. Options and strategies beyond the current meta which, I think no one disagrees with, favors a small number of combat builds compared to the totality of Ultima Online.

I was not aware that, finally, also Rogue Templates will be able to have their own gameplay within these Treasures of Events.

That is great news, and definitely, a great addition to the game. I just hope that the mechanics being worked on, will consider the weaknesses of Rogue Templates whereas they need to have Detect Hidden to find the Chests, Lockpicking to pick the Locks, Remove Trap to remove Trap, and most likely Hiding and Stealthing to move around with hardly any combat ability. Not to mention, Magery, which can help for heals, cures, getting invised when hiding won't work because aggroed.... we are looking at some 600+ skill points already used up... not much room left to play with....

That is, if Paragons will reveal them a go go, across walls and at some 12+ tiles distance, and the rest of the spawn will therefore target on them, I hardly see how Rogues will be able to get a decent number of drops to be able to get them some rewards, especially if the costlier ones....

I sure hope that the Developers are working on a mechanics that will make it realistically "feasible" for this particular Template to participate in these Events....

I also agree on your point that Events like these, used the group mechanics more.

I would really love to see a much more varied assortment of Templates and not just, or mostly, Warriors all over the place.

But, as someone else well pointed out, in the end most players participate to these Event mainly for the drops that they can turn in for points in order to then get themselves the Rewards that they like.

So, any Design that was to include Rogues and a number of other Templates to be able to participate in these Events, should well keep in mind that these players, most likely, will be there to get their drops, and get them at a decent rate....

Otherwise, they would just log in with their Warrior and go get their drops.....

Jepeth

Yes, it doesn't look like anyone grabbed the full transcript of the TC Meet 'N' Greet last week which is very unfortunate. There were a lot of great questions!

Mariah

I feel this argument has become circular, so in respect for the ill fated ouzelum bird I will halt the action.