Bug, Change or am I misrembering

AnneNomilly

I thought that if you stole something from a player, you went grey. I have zero problem with a thief doing what thief does. However, why would they not go grey? What we are seeing is a thief comes in, steals a scroll, what have you, from a blue. The blue attacks and goes grey and then the thief's friends come and kill and dry loot the person stolen from.

Now, again, I don't have a problem with a thief stealing. But where is the risk for stealing from a blue player? Is that a bug or a change that I missed? Or am I just hallucinating that thieves went grey in the past stealing from players.

Thanks in advance guys!

McDougle

Should flag for sure maybe a VvV issue?

AnneNomilly

McDougle said:

Should flag for sure maybe a VvV issue?

Would make sense but I'm not VvV, the thief that stole wasn't and we ran a test ourselves to confirm and no one was VvV. Could be something in that line of code tho. 

Pawain

Don't they have to get caught stealing to go grey, just like in Tram? 

Before Tram, the thief only turned grey if someone got a message saying they saw him stealing.

McDougle

When you steal you're revealed and flagged...

Yoshi

“My experience is what Pawain said, there is only a chance they will go grey. In order to steal from players thieves must join the thieves guild which wavers their right to give murder counts, so you can kill them out of guard zone at any point but yes you yourself will still go grey”

Victim_Of_Siege

From The Wiki:
"Witnesses

If there are witnesses in the area, the game performs a complicated set of calculations to determine if any of them noticed the crime. The difficulty calculation above factors into it, as well as the monetary value of the stolen item – and each NPC or player in the theft area runs the check, so the more people around, the more likely you are to be noticed. The calculation returns a yes or no value – either there are witnesses or there aren’t."

If there are witnesses, you are flagged to them, if there aren't witnesses you remain your current notoriety.  As you can only steal from players in Felucca, just kill them and use a pardon.

McDougle

Keep in mind I've never stolen a thing but i lived in the alley behind vic's alley so I've seen stuff...

TimSt

Dogs can be witnesses. My thief was guard wacked when stealing from an NPC shop and the only witness was a dog.

Drago

What  client were you using?  EC has bug with player color flagging...  I'm guilded and sometimes my pet and I will swap from green to blue. blue to green. happens if i die or cross server boundry (which cannot believe they still exist in 2021....smh)

Bilbo

Could Guild association have anything to do with this.  Didn't we use to be able to steel from Guild members or Guilds aligned with or Guild without flagging even in Tram.  Been a long long time.

Victim_Of_Siege

Bilbo said:

Could Guild association have anything to do with this.  Didn't we use to be able to steel from Guild members or Guilds aligned with or Guild without flagging even in Tram.  Been a long long time.

*cough*youstillcan*cough*

Bilbo

  thankyou  

Urge

NO you are not automatically flagged stealing. I am unsure of the exact flagging formula but it involves player skill and weight of object stolen plus how many people are within range and if the moon and stars align. 

A 120 skilled thief can steal 12 stones. A scroll is only 1. This increases the chance not to flag. 

Now if said thief is stealing 10-12 stones constantly without flagging, that would be a bug. Another possibility is that the "thief" is only snooping which freaks people out enough to attack. 

-Urge (Player stealing for 20 years)

keven2002

Urge said:

NO you are not automatically flagged stealing. I am unsure of the exact flagging formula but it involves player skill and weight of object stolen plus how many people are within range and if the moon and stars align. 

A 120 skilled thief can steal 12 stones. A scroll is only 1. This increases the chance not to flag. 

Now if said thief is stealing 10-12 stones constantly without flagging, that would be a bug. Another possibility is that the "thief" is only snooping which freaks people out enough to attack. 

-Urge (Player stealing for 20 years)

This is the answer. 

You can steal lighter items from people with possibility of not being caught (ie flagged grey). Skill certainly comes into play as well as dexterity I thought (that might no longer be the case). 


@Mariah - The below should be updated in the Wiki to what Yoshi posted. When a thief joins the thieves guild (to steal from players) they are no longer able to give murder counts. You will flag grey so if you attack them under guard protection while they are blue you will be whacked but if you kill them you will not get a count or need a pardon. 

Victim_Of_Siege said:

From The Wiki:

If there are witnesses, you are flagged to them, if there aren't witnesses you remain your current notoriety.  As you can only steal from players in Felucca, just kill them and use a pardon.

Mariah

@keven2002 I would, but I can't find that text. It's not on the current 'stealing' page, and tbh, doesn't read the way I usually write. @Victim_Of_Siege Where did you find that please? Can you link?

The current stealing page reads as follows:

Witnesses

If there are witnesses in the area, the game performs a complicated set of calculations to determine if any of them noticed the crime. The difficulty calculation above factors into it, as well as the monetary value of the stolen item - and each NPC or player in the theft area runs the check, so the more people around, the more likely you are to be noticed. The calculation returns a yes or no value - either there are witnesses or there aren't.

If there are no witnesses, the thief successfully steals the item.

However, if there are witnesses, you're not guaranteed to fail - you just need to pass another difficulty check.

Difficulty = itemWeight * targetingFactor * 30 + 100.

(Using the same example as above here is the calculation:

Difficulty = 7 * 3 * 30 + 100
Difficulty = 730)

The difficulty is then plugged in to the following calculation:

500 + 2 * (Thief skill - difficulty)) / 10 = percent chance of success

(Example: (500 + 2 * (1000 - 730)) / 10 = 104%, or a guaranteed success.)

This formula also applies to stealing from NPC, pack animal or lockbox.

The page also says, in an earlier section:

Stealing from a player is a 'hostile' act and therefore can only be performed in Felucca, or area having the Felucca rule-set (eg the two Stygian Abyss champion spawns). This in turn means your victim may also extract revenge by performing a 'hostile' act on you. Thieves are unable to give murder counts!

Bilbo

Mariah said:

@ keven2002 I would, but I can't find that text. It's not on the current 'stealing' page, and tbh, doesn't read the way I usually write. @ Victim_Of_Siege Where did you find that please? Can you link?

The current stealing page reads as follows:

Witnesses

If there are witnesses in the area, the game performs a complicated set of calculations to determine if any of them noticed the crime. The difficulty calculation above factors into it, as well as the monetary value of the stolen item - and each NPC or player in the theft area runs the check, so the more people around, the more likely you are to be noticed. The calculation returns a yes or no value - either there are witnesses or there aren't.

If there are no witnesses, the thief successfully steals the item.

However, if there are witnesses, you're not guaranteed to fail - you just need to pass another difficulty check.

Difficulty = itemWeight * targetingFactor * 30 + 100.

(Using the same example as above here is the calculation:

Difficulty = 7 * 3 * 30 + 100
Difficulty = 730)

The difficulty is then plugged in to the following calculation:

500 + 2 * (Thief skill - difficulty)) / 10 = percent chance of success

(Example: (500 + 2 * (1000 - 730)) / 10 = 104%, or a guaranteed success.)

This formula also applies to stealing from NPC, pack animal or lockbox.

The page also says, in an earlier section:

Stealing from a player is a 'hostile' act and therefore can only be performed in Felucca, or area having the Felucca rule-set (eg the two Stygian Abyss champion spawns). This in turn means your victim may also extract revenge by performing a 'hostile' act on you. Thieves are unable to give murder counts!

• Able to practice Stealing/duel with other members of your guild/alliance without being flagged as a Criminal or Murderer, even outside of Felucca.

Victim_Of_Siege

@Mariah ; the part quoted is my summation of the paragraph . not what is there.

Mariah

Ah, but then you didn't read the earlier part that said thieves can't give murder counts

thank you @Bilbo I will add a note regarding guild members

Yoshi

“At the top of this stealing page it reads that you will be flagged as criminal for performing beneficial acts on someone in the thieves guild, I do not believe this to be true”