New Legacy Questions & Suggestions

Unfortunately I was unable to attend Dev meet n' greet but I did watch the recording.

Questions
  1. Will the # of character slots be same as live shards?
  2. Housing - Will you need a key to lock your home like 97 ?
  3. Will BODs exist? If so will the functionality be the same as live ?
Suggestion
  1. Can we get the original music from 97? :)
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Comments

  • JohnKnighthawkeJohnKnighthawke Posts: 175
    I continue to maintain that the new shard is a depressing waste of resources. Is this the correct thread to attempt to explain why?
  • BetaRising8BetaRising8 Posts: 16
    I continue to maintain that the new shard is a depressing waste of resources. Is this the correct thread to attempt to explain why?
    you got that far, why did you stop typing?

    imo it seems like a cool idea. but youve been around forever probably, and i havent so i wouldnt understand the situation UO is in currently. I just returned.
  • BetaRising8BetaRising8 Posts: 16
    edited July 1
    Drago said:
    Unfortunately I was unable to attend Dev meet n' greet but I did watch the recording.

    Questions
    1. Will the # of character slots be same as live shards?
    2. Housing - Will you need a key to lock your home like 97 ?
    3. Will BODs exist? If so will the functionality be the same as live ?
    Suggestion
    1. Can we get the original music from 97? :)
    This was yesterday


    Check out the previous video they made to this one on their youtube page. I believe they answered the BOD question. I dont know what BOD is so i didnt pay much attention to what their response was. lol
  • Victim_Of_SiegeVictim_Of_Siege Posts: 802
    I continue to maintain that the new shard is a depressing waste of resources. Is this the correct thread to attempt to explain why?
    Just explain it in a respectful way and you should be good.
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 942Dev
    I continue to maintain that the new shard is a depressing waste of resources. Is this the correct thread to attempt to explain why?
    Sure, as good a thread as any right?  I will refer you back to comments we've made during the streams though.  NLS is our best shot at marketing the rich and immersive world of Britannia to a new audience to grow the game world.  If the ruleset isn't for you, that's ok.
  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 942Dev
    Drago said:
    Unfortunately I was unable to attend Dev meet n' greet but I did watch the recording.

    Questions
    1. Will the # of character slots be same as live shards?
    2. Housing - Will you need a key to lock your home like 97 ?
    3. Will BODs exist? If so will the functionality be the same as live ?
    Suggestion
    1. Can we get the original music from 97? :)
    We're still looking at the number of characters you'll be able to have. 
    House keys are likely not returning since we are using the same housing security code that we have on production
    Yes - BODs will exist as a fundamental driver of the crafting loop.

    I think we have those MIDI files somewhere.... :)
  • dvviddvvid Posts: 458
    I believe I heard that no additional character slots will be provided on the live shards to accommodate a NL transferred character. Is this true? Also wondering if that will even be a big deal or not. 
  • DragoDrago Posts: 191
    Kyronix said:
    Drago said:
    Unfortunately I was unable to attend Dev meet n' greet but I did watch the recording.

    Questions
    1. Will the # of character slots be same as live shards?
    2. Housing - Will you need a key to lock your home like 97 ?
    3. Will BODs exist? If so will the functionality be the same as live ?
    Suggestion
    1. Can we get the original music from 97? :)
    I think we have those MIDI files somewhere.... :)

    http://www.uoguide.com/images2/UO_MP3_of_original_MIDI.zip

  • JepethJepeth Posts: 274
    On this subject has anyone been able to completely replace the “new” music with the correct midis to trigger at the correct times? I’ve attempted this a few times but was never really able to replace everything and have it all work correctly.
  • JohnKnighthawkeJohnKnighthawke Posts: 175

    This post will be long by Internet standards but in not making it longer I'm already going to be glossing over some points and skipping others. There's no way around either. All I can do is that in the editing process I didn't leave any sentences hanging or anything (that happens to me sometimes).

    As noted I consider this new shard to be a depressing waste of resources. I have two main reasons for my thinking such.

    • One, I don't think the shard will help for either of its intended purposes.

    • Two, the time and effort and resources spent on this could be spent on shards that already exist and customers you already have (and, therefore, potentially new customers upon current customer recommendation).

    First, we discuss the shard's seemingly intended purposes and why it won't help.

    Near as I can tell this shard is aimed at two groups: The Classic Shard crowd and potential new players who might be attracted by the vestiges of the Ultima franchise and the old, single-player experience that they offered.

    I can tell that NL is aimed in part at the Classic Shard crowd because it has a superficial resemblance to UO before AoS and, perhaps, even before Publish 16 or thereabouts, and that had to be done on purpose. It's not a Classic Shard but it's clearly aimed in part at that crowd. You would not have brought back database display labels/formats like "supremely accurate" unless that audience was what you had in mind. It won't really appeal to this crowd for several reasons. They already have versions of what they want from the free shards. That crowd isn't as large as you think anyway (they're just vocal). There's little consistency in what they want so nothing will please all of them anyway. Finally, the most-vocal contingent wants the pre-Trammel experience and, to your credit, you've realized that such a thing will be a commercial disaster. That crowd won't come back for ML. And once you take away that contingent of the Classic Shard crowd, the folks who are left are either already players or are not going to budge from the free shards.

    I can tell that NL is aimed in part at potential new players who might be attracted by the vestiges of the Ultima franchise and the old, single-player experience that they offered because, well, you're said so, or said something similar. I don't think it'll attract them either. They already have such an experience from other games, lacking only the Ultima name. Further, I think you misunderstand one of the fundamental features of an MMO. To me, and I think to most but not all of the rest of us, that means that most of us want to play the same group of characters over time. Not start a brand new story every year (a “legacy” that lasts a year at most?). Even most PvPers, probably the most experimentally minded power-gamers out there, seem to play the same character for a period of time then only change characters when something new comes up and/or when the mechanics change such that their character is not as overpowering as it once was. And they rarely seem to just start over completely the way an annual shard wipe will imply.

    Now, we discuss the things we could have but won't because of the resources being spent on this new shard. I've been thinking a lot about this since NL was announced. Here's a partial list of things I've come up with.

    -A more consistent and steadier stream of strong story-driven, persistent but temporary content (as opposed to the repeating of combinations of similar mechanics we're getting now -- which would be FINE with me if that's all you all could manage with the resources you had but, obviously, you could have done more and chose not to);

    -Finish hanging plot threads (the mystery of New Haven, the appearance of Wolfgang's tomb in Doom);

    -Craftable paladin swords (why don't we have this now, again?);

    -Craftable armor based on the Virtue Armor (why don't we have this now, again?);

    -A Paladin mount (LONG over due);

    -Optional family names for associated characters (slotted to appear in NL but wouldn't it make more sense on shards that aren't wiped every year?);

    -New dungeons;

    -Bug fixes;

    -New PvP systems (see below for a bit of brainstorming);

    -A PvP way to get the Honor virtue;

    -A PvM way to get the Justice virtue;

    -Enhanced quest system (bounties, kill specific monsters in specific locations, etc. - ironically something like this seems up for inclusion in NL where it makes less sense than it would on the current shards);

    -New skills / rearrangement of old skills (under current systems, just to cite one example, a classic fantasy archetype, the rogue, is not viable in UO);

    -Template balance pass;

    -New champ spawns;

    -Some kind of periodic overland spawn for random reasons with a rotating set of rewards;

    -Dungeon bosses (seriously, why doesn't every dungeon have a boss? you have a system in place, used in the ruins of Old Haven, that will spawn a boss simply when a certain number of creatures within the dungeon die, why use it in only one place);

    -This list is endless.

    By doing some of the above, and by keeping it up (a few things a year) perhaps some of us long-time players will keep playing...And will be able to tell our friends playing Elder Scrolls Online that there's this older game that also has cool things to do on a consistent basis. (Because let's face it, the steady stream of cool things, sort of a never-ending list of mods or DLCs, is why folks play a game like Elder Scrolls Online. Sure it looks cool but that's not why they play it.)

    (As mentioned above, here's a bit of quick brainstorming about PvP: It occurs to me that one of the biggest issues in PvP is simple boredom. VvV was played out in weeks or months depending on the shard. Factions lasted years but even then it petered out. Order/Chaos, I forget how long that was popular. So why not rotate systems, at least superficially? Change Faction names, rewards, and associated fiction. For a month or so allow Faction battles in a certain location in a Trammel rules facet and tie it in with the latest "Treasures of" event. Sometimes all it takes is a little extra salt and pepper to make a customer happy if only temporarily. But there's really not time to do anything, like this or not, while you're working on a new shard that no one plays on yet.)

    Instead of any of the above, you've chosen to focus on making a brand new shard that, in my assessment at least, cannot possibly live up to your expectations -- see above.

    I recognize that this post is pointless, that it's far, far too late.

    But, there it is.

  • LilyGraceLilyGrace Posts: 299
    edited July 2
    Kyronix said:
    Drago said:
    Unfortunately I was unable to attend Dev meet n' greet but I did watch the recording.

    Questions
    1. Will the # of character slots be same as live shards?
    2. Housing - Will you need a key to lock your home like 97 ?
    3. Will BODs exist? If so will the functionality be the same as live ?
    Suggestion
    1. Can we get the original music from 97? :)
    We're still looking at the number of characters you'll be able to have. 
    House keys are likely not returning since we are using the same housing security code that we have on production
    Yes - BODs will exist as a fundamental driver of the crafting loop.

    I think we have those MIDI files somewhere.... :)
    The number of characters slots was one of my questions too. I'm hoping it will mirror our home account. 

    I'm also very curious about push-through code. Back when the world split in two I think my biggest disappointment was being able to push through everything and everyone in Trammel, making it so you didn't have to think about stamina at all for the most part. I remember the reasoning being griefers blocking players in various grief-y type ways. How will that be handled in NL? Not that I'm even sure I can effectively play anymore without being able to push through everything! It's been a long time!  :D  

    Re: Music and Dawn's Music Box in a sort of off topic way... Has there ever been any thought given to revamping the music box? Most particularly any thought given to making it so you can hit a playlist button so the box's whole repertoire plays on a loop instead of each selection playing on a loop? It would be so nice to hit play and hear your whole collection without futzing around after each song. It would be even nicer if we could drop the gears out and put them back in a desired order. 

    Apologies if these questions have already been answered elsewhere.

    :-)

    Edited to add:  Disregard my comment about dropping gears out to change order. I was playing music box in my pack. I either didn't know or I forgot you can change the order if the music box is locked down. Still would be nice to hit a playlist button tho.
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 399
    Where are you going to find new players with the time commitment to play on NL?  Forget the negatives of the rather high subscription fee, new user unfriendly environment and dated aspects of just about everything in this game. Coordinating groups and planning for fights takes as much time, if not more, as the fight itself.  You need players that can be on for hours at a time.  It is obvious that NL is being designed for group play and not for solo players.  And, at the end of the year you get to start all over again from scratch or just about.  Just where do you expect to find new players willing to make that kind of commitment that can play NL for hours at a time?  Wish I could say something more positive but as a fairly new player myself, about three years, just can’t see this game in it’s current or planned NL form appealing much to players currently playing state of the art games.  Agree mostly with John K.  Sorry.
  • psychopsycho Posts: 219

    -This list is endless.


    The list is endless because its a sandbox game and you can add anything you want really, there isnt a lack of ideas of what to add. Its more a priority of what to add.

    In my opinion Im not too conserned about new stuff to add, theres a million ideas and suggestions from players and devs. Its more a concern about the current content being outdated and need of update.

    You have on live shards quests that are outdated and not for new players, some outdated rewards, pvp system that is unfinished, rewards list of vvv, cleanuppoints, peerlessbosses, champ bosses, moonglow zoo, museum of vesper, britannia donation NPCs, a ton of stuf that needs an update, changes and in some cases small tweaks.

    All this takes time.
    I think we all know that once legacy shard is released the time and focus will not be dedicated to existing live prod shards, but still a focus on legacy because it will have bugs and new content, perhaps em events just like the current live prod shards.


    Anyway the main question is what will the players do?
    Play new legacy shard, existing shards, or perhaps both?  Will the current live shards be dryed and empty, which is already an issue on some of them.
    I think once legacy shard ends after a year people will asumingly pick a live prod shard to continue to play, but that is only until the next season of legasy is launched.

    If the differences between legacy shard and live prod shards is too great, many of these new players will not make the move. Ontop of that once a rumour of which shard to play goes out most players will pick it, and not be evenly spread out on all production shards.

    Its big questions, and requires alot of effort to get right thus the planning phase.


  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 627
    edited July 2
    "Will you still be able to log into new legacy with non official clients and use pretty much any script without recourse like people currently do on prodo shards?

    Let us say you get a lot of returning players, i'm not sure they would appreciate competing against those on the unofficial client who can run faster than them, - auto trapped box etc, might put returning players off, might be better to only allow official client use since you're gong for the classic feel"
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • AtomicBettyAtomicBetty Posts: 116

    • Two, the time and effort and resources spent on this could be spent on shards that already exist and customers you already have (and, therefore, potentially new customers upon current customer recommendation).

    -A more consistent and steadier stream of strong story-driven, persistent but temporary content (as opposed to the repeating of combinations of similar mechanics we're getting now -- which would be FINE with me if that's all you all could manage with the resources you had but, obviously, you could have done more and chose not to);

    -Craftable paladin swords (why don't we have this now, again?);

    -Craftable armor based on the Virtue Armor (why don't we have this now, again?);

    -A Paladin mount (LONG over due);

    -New PvP systems (see below for a bit of brainstorming);

    -A PvP way to get the Honor virtue;

    -A PvM way to get the Justice virtue;

    -New skills / rearrangement of old skills (under current systems, just to cite one example, a classic fantasy archetype, the rogue, is not viable in UO);

    -New champ spawns;

    -Some kind of periodic overland spawn for random reasons with a rotating set of rewards;

    How does anything you suggested improve the game though? That's the same kind of updates that the dev's were doing the past 10+ years relying on 'current customer recommendation' to bring players in and has not worked.

    I have to give the dev's credit the past 1-2 years have been the best content updates since Stygian Abyss and that is while working on bringing a brand new gaming experience in New Legacy to the game.
  • DragoDrago Posts: 191
    For all those complaining that New legacy is a 'waste of time' , ' why are you opening a new shard when 80% of the shards are dead?  .. 

    Think of it like this:

    New legacy is a 'staging' shard for things to come.   Its about re-introducing some old game mechanics to see the level of player interest it gets.  If it gets enough traction, some of these features will get implemented to the live shards (as said in dev M&G).  I think Its partly why the shard gets wiped once a year (aka new season).  

    While I agree with the devs on this general direction, the next phase really needs to be the clients.  We need 1 client with upgrades to support modern tech and critical bugs fixed.  You will not attract new players without it.

  • looploop Posts: 95
    Drago said:
    For all those complaining that New legacy is a 'waste of time' , ' why are you opening a new shard when 80% of the shards are dead?  .. 

    Think of it like this:

    New legacy is a 'staging' shard for things to come.   Its about re-introducing some old game mechanics to see the level of player interest it gets.  If it gets enough traction, some of these features will get implemented to the live shards (as said in dev M&G).  I think Its partly why the shard gets wiped once a year (aka new season).  

    While I agree with the devs on this general direction, the next phase really needs to be the clients.  We need 1 client with upgrades to support modern tech and critical bugs fixed.  You will not attract new players without it.

    I agree with your point about the clients. I'm optimistic about New Legacy, and I think the correct approach was NOT to attempt era-accurate emulation despite a vocal subset of players advocating for it. The seasonal nature of it, too, is an interesting way to design around the challenges of maintaining a persistent world. I see this as a shard that Broadsword can really take ownership of more freely without disrupting 20+ years of history. 

    Now, if the intention is to expand UO's audience, the clients really do get in the way. We have two. Both are subpar and inferior to third-party alternatives. New Legacy banks off the classic days of UO, so where does the EC fit in the equation? Do we really expect players to endure the CC without seeking our third-party programs, and how many players are willing to do that in the first place?
  • ActionEllyActionElly Posts: 138
    edited July 10
    @Kyronix If you've every played or even heard of Stardew valley you should consider some inspiration from it for NL because it would be perfect for that and it's very popular.

    I actually thought of this because of people saying it won't appeal to new players, I actually think NL is a lot like these types of games from what I've been seeing and could be presented in that way.
  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 942Dev
    @ Kyronix If you've every played or even heard of Stardew valley you should consider some inspiration from it for NL because it would be perfect for that and it's very popular.

    I actually thought of this because of people saying it won't appeal to new players, I actually think NL is a lot like these types of games from what I've been seeing and could be presented in that way.
    I have a Duck Mayo empire.  Just sayin' :)
  • Drago said:
    For all those complaining that New legacy is a 'waste of time' , ' why are you opening a new shard when 80% of the shards are dead?  .. 



    The only person who used the "waste of time" phrasing was me and I didn't say anything about current shards being 'dead,' because I don't believe that to really be true. Also if you do a word search on the word 'dead' in this thread, most of the uses are you and people responding to you. In other words it's you who's introduced this into a discussion.

    I explained, clearly and precisely, why I maintain that this shard is a depressing waste of time, and it has nothing to do with shards being 'dead.'

    I have little doubt though that your attempt to put words on my mouth will be successful though.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    There is no such thing as a "DEAD" Shard  https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dead
    so stop posting misinformation.
  • AtomicBettyAtomicBetty Posts: 116
    Drago said:
    For all those complaining that New legacy is a 'waste of time' , ' why are you opening a new shard when 80% of the shards are dead?  .. 



    The only person who used the "waste of time" phrasing was me and I didn't say anything about current shards being 'dead,' because I don't believe that to really be true. Also if you do a word search on the word 'dead' in this thread, most of the uses are you and people responding to you. In other words it's you who's introduced this into a discussion.

    I explained, clearly and precisely, why I maintain that this shard is a depressing waste of time, and it has nothing to do with shards being 'dead.'

    I have little doubt though that your attempt to put words on my mouth will be successful though.

    You also never backed up your claims on how any of your suggestions are an improvement over what is being worked on.  You list a bunch of useless garbage that won't interest anyone outside of yourself and think that is a better use of use of time instead of attempting something completely new and refreshing that even most veteran players are excited to try.


  • SethSeth Posts: 1,364
    edited July 14
    Kyronix said:
    Drago said:
    Unfortunately I was unable to attend Dev meet n' greet but I did watch the recording.

    Questions
    1. Will the # of character slots be same as live shards?
    2. Housing - Will you need a key to lock your home like 97 ?
    3. Will BODs exist? If so will the functionality be the same as live ?
    Suggestion
    1. Can we get the original music from 97? :)
    We're still looking at the number of characters you'll be able to have. 
    House keys are likely not returning since we are using the same housing security code that we have on production
    Yes - BODs will exist as a fundamental driver of the crafting loop.

    I think we have those MIDI files somewhere.... :)

    If it will be wiped every year like a TC, then I don't think the number of slots need a lot of time to consider. Just give the max 7.

    I doubt I would be interested to move a newbie character from NLS to a production shard every year.

    So I assumed characters on NLS will be deleted, and items earned are copied to a production shard, and to any existing character of our choice.

    If the plan is for us to move characters from NLS to production shard, then we need more slots for existing shard... which I don't think will happen.
    We love bugs....
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 1,283
    Seth said:
    Kyronix said:
    Drago said:
    Unfortunately I was unable to attend Dev meet n' greet but I did watch the recording.

    Questions
    1. Will the # of character slots be same as live shards?
    2. Housing - Will you need a key to lock your home like 97 ?
    3. Will BODs exist? If so will the functionality be the same as live ?
    Suggestion
    1. Can we get the original music from 97? :)
    We're still looking at the number of characters you'll be able to have. 
    House keys are likely not returning since we are using the same housing security code that we have on production
    Yes - BODs will exist as a fundamental driver of the crafting loop.

    I think we have those MIDI files somewhere.... :)

    If it will be wiped every year like a TC, then I don't think the number of slots need a lot of time to consider. Just give the max 7.

    I doubt I would be interested to move a newbie character from NLS to a production shard every year.

    So I assumed characters on NLS will be deleted, and items earned are copied to a production shard, and to any existing character of our choice.

    If the plan is for us to move characters from NLS to production shard, then we need more slots for existing shard... which I don't think will happen.
    I think items and titles and such will only go to production shard if a character does...
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    @Kyronix said that your Char (if not transferred) to a prodo shard would not be wiped but all equipment would, not sure about the collectable items that can also be xfered to prodo shard but he did talk about you keeping your skills if not xferd.
  • Drago said:
    For all those complaining that New legacy is a 'waste of time' , ' why are you opening a new shard when 80% of the shards are dead?  .. 



    The only person who used the "waste of time" phrasing was me and I didn't say anything about current shards being 'dead,' because I don't believe that to really be true. Also if you do a word search on the word 'dead' in this thread, most of the uses are you and people responding to you. In other words it's you who's introduced this into a discussion.

    I explained, clearly and precisely, why I maintain that this shard is a depressing waste of time, and it has nothing to do with shards being 'dead.'

    I have little doubt though that your attempt to put words on my mouth will be successful though.

    You also never backed up your claims on how any of your suggestions are an improvement over what is being worked on.  You list a bunch of useless garbage that won't interest anyone outside of yourself and think that is a better use of use of time instead of attempting something completely new and refreshing that even most veteran players are excited to try.



    I explained myself adequately, you just don't disagree, which is fine. Your insults are of course not fine but I totally understand why you resort to them.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 1,283
    there's a special joy in complaining and arguing over future stuff...
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 399
    Yes, agree is fun when not sure what we are talking about.  Regarding Bilbo’s post would not make sense for players staying on the New Legacy shard to keep their skill levels after the shattering.  Such a huge advantage at the beginning of the next session would be grossly unfair to others.  Not saying it would not work that way.  Just want to confirm that is what will happen.  
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Arnold7 said:
    Yes, agree is fun when not sure what we are talking about.  Regarding Bilbo’s post would not make sense for players staying on the New Legacy shard to keep their skill levels after the shattering.  Such a huge advantage at the beginning of the next session would be grossly unfair to others.  Not saying it would not work that way.  Just want to confirm that is what will happen.  
    Watch the videos
  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,672
    They are making skill gain faster and less grindy. So hopefully skills will be quick and we can jump into killing stuff. 
    Also only GM skills at the moment.
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