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Comments
The bottom line is, that Warriors still end up on top, and by a large margin, as compared to Tamers or Spellcasters or other templates....
A tamer with a Cu was there same hours as me. from open till 2am. He got the same amount of drops as I did. He can kill the Para Balrons, not many Sampires can.
As usual you need to learn to play. Again I invite you to LS and see how to play a tamer. Or just stay on the forums to complain and not get drops.
I found the best set up for an archer and melee is Flame tali with a cold Demon weapon. Energy Demon weapon works. Thats what I use on my macer with a War Hammer. He just has WW so no special with 1 on 1. My swordsman has to have DI on his tali so I went with a Cold weapon with lichs and HLA , and demon Cameo. I just had to 2 hit the flame spawn instead of one. Swords is easier because the WW weapon has DS.
My Archer has a cold Demon Bow with a Flame Tali.
Best Pet is Cu. The 3 tough things are low in cold and energy resist, the Cu heals and the owner runs protection and invises as needed. Do not run, dont use auto run when next to paras. You may have to invis twice but step 3 steps away and the Balron wont retarget until its near dead or it invises or someone runs by. When someone runs by, invis immediately.
I test pets on Balrons in Chaos, Paragons spawn there. Any pet can kill one but the Cu is fastest if the owner just wants to stand and run consume. I have killed hundreds of them, I will die sometimes but we want a little risk.
Mages are too easy to worry about flame slayer. Lichs I switch to an Undead weapon but I have just used consecrate and stayed on the cold non slayer weapon.
Mostly sampires, the reason for this is because the mobs (particularly Paragons) are difficult for a caster in wraith form due to their movement speed.
ICQ# 478 633 659
1 - Paragons' speed.
Other Templates can get mounted, Tamers, unless they are Gargoyles (and they are a minority among Tamers who often like riding their pet), cannot mound a 5 slots per.
And Paragons, therefore, easily can catch Tamer on foot.
2- Paragon's revealing Range.
I seem to understand, that it is like 12 tiles. It is way too much. Warriors, wince they fight toe to toes, are not affected by this, Tamers, instead, are. They cannot stay close to their pet to heal and occasionally inviso to break aggro because the Paragon reveals right away and, thus, whatever other spawn was aggroing the Tamer, will still focus on the Tamer. I seem to understand that, in order to break aggro, the invisibility needs to hold for a short time, the insta revealing of Paragons, therefore, does not permit the aggro to break and be focused on the pet, instead.
As the Paragon re-reveals the Tamer, whatever spawn was aggroing the Tamer WILL re-aggro the Tamer so, this makes hiding to break aggro if within 12 tiles of a Paragon totally useless.
3 - Paragons' re-targeting the Tamer.
As I mentioned, a Tamer with a 5 slot pet is necessarily on foot thus making the Tamer totally defenseless towards the Paragon. The fact that the Paragon, rather then sticking on the pet that is fighting it, will re-target the Tamer, forces the Tamer to have to run away, on foot... with a fast Paragon pursuing... most times, this ends with a death robe.
One thing is challenging gameplay, another is mechanics which make it impossible for a Tamer to come up with a counter towards the "tools" that a Paragon has.
A Tamer cannot outspeed a Paragon.
A Tamer cannot avoid being revealed by a Paragon.
A Tamer cannot avoid the Paragon re-targeting on the Tamer.
This 3 things, impossible to be countered in any way, and combined with one another, make the gameplay ridicolusly impossible for a Tamer.
I happen to think that, Tamers should be given some ability to "counter" in some way these 3 points that Paragons have.
for
Treasure Hunters
for
Treasure Hunters
ICQ# 478 633 659
Popps, check prior responses to your threads on past variations this topic from me, as to how to kill paragons as a tamer. If you're only faced with a single paragon, running is the last thing you want to do.
Having said that, if people can't handle paragons, simply recall or sacred journey away. Have a good set of runes and macros set to recall properly. That's better than dragging one paragon to other paragons, and it may well help with your net drop rate over time.
Tamers can own any paragon in the current system.
Like someone above said DON'T RUN and I said that also above. Use protection invis WALK 3 steps invis again until it stays on the pet. A tamer just bragged today that he has not died today but has ressed many melee toons as they walk by him.
Also like they said you can recall out and start over on something easier for you until you learn how to play your tamer.
Still can come to LS and Ill show you.
ICQ# 478 633 659
You say not run... problem is, that too often, while my pet is dealing with a Paragon and I am trying in some way not to become the attention of that Paragon, something else spawns near me while I need to constantly cast Heals on my pet not to let it die to the Paragon...
At that point, if I cast spells on what spawned near me, assuming that it is something killable by spells, without any longer being able to cast heals on my pet, I let it die, if I hide to break aggro from whatever spawned near me, the paragon auto-reveals right away and the new spawn returns on me (the hiding does not last enough for the new spawn to target the pet), if I run away, the paragon chases me, and I am stuck.... I do not have a way out from that scenario other then recalling, as you mentioned.
I think, that this is wrong.
A Design that does not leave to the Tamer player, SO OFTEN, no other option but having to call it a quit, which greatly increases the pauses in my gameplay and, thus, my drop rates, I do not think is a good one, especially when, for this event, the price of items has been set so high...
In 2 days of spending a good many hours at this spawn, all I got is 12 drops.....and I value my real life time certainly more then time spent at a keyboard to get a few pixels in a game...
I mean, my point is, that a game should be fun, not an alienating process to get some pixels that was to cost an inordinate amount of time.
When the time, because of the mechanics of a given game Design, forces the player to invest too much of their real life time to get some pixels and this spent time at a keyboard comes at the expense of their real life time, that is NOT WORTH IT, to my viewing.
I think I am really very close to calling it a quit with this Event as I care way more for my Real Life time, that for these pixels.... if I could get them with a RESONABLE, and I stress the word on "reasonable" expenditure of time, then sure, but if it should cost me an UNreasonable amount of hours... forget about it.... I prefer to take my real life, and go to hell with a computer game...
Gameplay working this way, to my viewing, alienates a player valueing their real time more then the time spent at a keyboard, and drives them away from the game, rather then keeping them hooked at playing the game.
Of course, this is the way that I think about it.
Every little house is camped on second floor cause there is nothing in the halls on first or second.
At least they get something every few minutes.
as a Tamer on foot, I cannot outrun a Paragon,
Go gargish or use 4 slot pet.
without any longer being able to cast heals on my pet
Get pet with healing, use Gift of renewal or humility points you accumulated for this spawn. Or you did not ?
I think, that this is wrong.
Yes, YOU are doing it wrong.
In 2 days of spending a good many hours at this spawn, all I got is 12 drops.....and I value my real life time certainly more then time spent at a keyboard to get a few pixels in a game...
No, you dont value it. Otherwise you will think about better build for this spawn. Instead of asking to do something that fits your underpowered character. Go kill rats, mages and snakes. They give drops too. Dont go to areas where grown up people are killing paragons.
Then I either go elsewhere or come back and peak around a corner, put the pet there and sick him on the paragon. You can run consume around corners, A good AI/Chiv pet can kill a Para Balron, which is the toughest thing out there. Sometimes I can shoot also without causing aggro. I got as many drops on him as I did the whole night on my Melee toon.
And, using a 4 slot pets would be like for a Warrior using a Weapon with half the properties they can imbue on it, who would use one ?
Pets that can heal are not necessarily good for all spawns, yes, for this one a CU-Sidhe could be of some help but : # 1, not all players have all pets, developed and scrolled up... some may have their Stables overflowing with pets, all of a high intensity and all trained up and scrolled to 120, many other players don't.
Gift of Renewal, as any Spellweaver knows, has a pretty long downtimer so, it is only usefull for a veru short time, and not even, with Paragons which hit hard, I have to couple Gift of Renewal with Heals because on its own is not enough.
Humility points ? They are way fast to go away and way too much time consuming to get back.
I find Virtues to be a royal waste of time for the little that they give, with the exception of Sacrifice, if one remains within the 3 resses per week at Knight, Valor, which can be gotten back working the spawn. But all of the others which drain away points which then take for every to gain back ?
Forget about it.
When you help the pet attacking the Paragon, you increase enormousily the chance of the Paragon retargeting you, I found out. I do not think it a good idea to directly attack a Paragon to help a pet, the Paragon, does retarget more likely on the Tamer, and the mess starts anew..
No, I am not doing it wrong with the mechanics as Designed and what I have at hand (i.e., available pets and available powerscrolls to scroll them up).
It is the Design which, instead, wrongly "tailors" the Spawn mostly to high End players and I think this as a wrong Design because, obviously, it greatly penalized players with not advanced pets or Templates or both.
Furthermore, LUCK worn does not work. And as everyone knows, when trying to maximize Luck worn, one has to accept compromises in the goodness of the suit.
My Luck suit, for example, has low Resists, Physical is only in the 40s, also other resistances are below 70 and it is not easy to stay alive with a weak suit...
Yet, IF Luck worked, and actually provided a bonus to the drop rate (which it does NOT, currently), I would not complain.
The problem is, instead, that I get an underpar Luck suit with low resists, low LMC, little MR, and other revelant Properties below an acceptable value, and do NOT even get the bonus in the drop rate from my LUCK worn because, who knows for what bug, the code does not work and LUCK does nothing to help increase the drops rate.
At least, if the Developers had a look at the code and fixed LUCK and finally made it work to increase the drops' rate as it should.....
You mean that I should make a Warrior or perhaps a Sampire because the Developers decided to Design these Events only or mostly for Warriors ?
No thanks, I find this as deadly wrong.
I play a Tamer, enjoy playing a Tamer, and would like to see the Design of the game NOT penalize Tamers all the time and advantage other Templates all the time.
Honestly, I have not a clue why the Developers hate Tamers so much. Yet, these Paragons' changes, pretty much affect Tamers only, not Warriors....
I mean, the auto-reveal, no matter what, does not affect Warriors but it does to Tamers.
The retargeting, is not important to Warriors who fight anyways toe to toe but it does affect Tamers who need to stay close to their pet to heal it.
Paragons' speed as not effect on Warriors who can be mounted, Tamers, instead, with a 5 slot pet, have to be on foot.
And while "some" Monsters have been given tainted life which can affect Sampires (only some, not all of the spawn), Dexers can adjust and put in Healing and other skills in place to get around that limitation.
Tamers, instead, to the nerfs affecting their Template do not have a way to compensate. A Tamer who wants to ride one's own pet and needs to use a 5 slot, cannot go Gargoyle and thus cannot outspeed a Paragon, A Tamer can do nothing to the Godly auto-revealing of Paragons which affects taming so much, they have no way to offset the re-targeting of Paragons.
So, it looks to me, most of the changes are directed against Tamers, rather then Warriors and I wonder why, when, as everyone can see, players are using MOSTLY Warriors ath these Events, not Tamers...
Yet, the developers hit Tamers with the nerf bat, and I do not understand why.
Possible changes that I would like to see to Paragons, is having their "auto-reveal" range be reduced from the current 12+ tiles to like 5 or 6 so that Tamers could still be within casting Range and, yet, be able to hide, if necessary, to break aggro from other spawn in the vicinity.
Another change that I would like to see, is to see a "downtimer" implemented to the Paragons' ability to reveal a character. If a character has already been revealed, the Paragon will NOT be able to reveal it again for, say, 5 minutes or so thus, making it possible for the revealed character to at least go back into hiding for a short time to re-organize.
As in regards to the "re-targeting" onto the tamer, this should not exist. The Paragon has a pet fighting it, and the fight with the pet should, therefore, be the Paragon's #1 Priority, not the Tamer.
This is PvM, not PvP where the PvPer kills the Tamer first, the pet after. This is PvM and the Paragon should be scripted to stick onto fighting the Pet, and not retarget to the Tamer.
And, of course, I would like to see worn LUCK to be actually be made meaningful and, the more Luck worn, the more meaningful it should be towards increasing the drops rate.
@Kyronix , please, really have a look at the worn LUCk code and see why it is not working. If one compromises the Resists and the Properties on one's own Suit, thus making fighting obviously more difficult with lower Resists and Lower properties in order to take advantage of higher worn LUCK, AT THE VERY LEAST they would want to see this sacrifice be compensated by a significantly higher drop rate because of the higher LUCK worn.
Well, as it was said, not just by me, but by various players, LUCK worn, even in the 2,000-2,500 range, does nothing to significantly increase the Artifacts' drop rate. At least, no visible advantage.
And this shouldn't be, worn LUCK should definitely increase the drop rate, especially, in the 2,000-2,500 range... therefore, if players are not seeing a sigificant increase in their drops' rate, the only one thing that I can possibly think about, is that the related Code might be broken somewhere.
Could you please, kindly, have a look at it and fix it ?
Thank you SO much.
This event is yough. What do you want ? Equal opportunity event? There were 2 . With clickies . Even thou people were crying that free deco was stolen from them.
Tamers are good. As I play a tamer there. You are not. Getting time-limited artifacts should cost some grey robes. And since you get fraction of a point for a grey robe, theoretically you can make yourself luck jewels set or even a vollem.
Tamers, instead, to the nerfs affecting their Template do not have a way to compensate. A Tamer who wants to ride one's own pet and needs to use a 5 slot, cannot go Gargoyle and thus cannot outspeed a Paragon, A Tamer can do nothing to the Godly auto-revealing of Paragons which affects taming so much, they have no way to offset the re-targeting of Paragons.
You want to be able to ride your pet to and out of the battle- so you walk on your feet.
Paragons are revealing everybody. Tamers, ninjias, throwers, whatever. So dont rely on it like samps cannot rely on leech.
Apart from taming skill (108 Lore and 110 taming) you have 502 skill points to allocate. And you are telling that dexxers can do this and you cannot?
You just dont play other templates. And cannot understand that this event is made hard for everybody. Opposed group mobs, mobs with no slayer, paragons. This is what makes this events interesting. You just want to make it like some reward in the kindergarten , just for participation.
When you help the pet attacking the Paragon, you increase enormousily the chance of the Paragon retargeting you, I found out. I do not think it a good idea to directly attack a Paragon to help a pet, the Paragon, does retarget more likely on the Tamer, and the mess starts anew..
I know. But i am playing. What can I loose? Insurance costs? And I like to finally solo mob who killed me 20 times in a row. Try different tactics. It is interesting.
You mean that I should make a Warrior or perhaps a Sampire because the Developers decided to Design these Events only or mostly for Warriors ?
This is event where you get score for kills. Warrior will kill mobs better than tailor- blacksmith. And you getting less drops then some others because you are not well-prepared for such events. You even cannot make a luck suit. You just grabbed all luck pieces you can obtain without thinking about resists. Without thinking about your mana-stamina. And after maxxing luck you telling your resists are low? What were your piorities? It is hard to get a drop being dead.
Gift of Renewal, as any Spellweaver knows, has a pretty long downtimer so, it is only usefull for a veru short time, and not even, with Paragons which hit hard, I have to couple Gift of Renewal with Heals because on its own is not enough.
You also never had spellweaving as you never played a warrior? OK, understood. YOu dont know how to get Humility either. And you call yourself a tamer?
ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
Maybe if someone would use their pet it would get skills. 110 scrolls with a 120 chiv scroll would cost you 8 drops. They sell for 3 to 4 million on LS.
I got drops with my Archer tamer and only needed the pet for paragons. Which I could have just avoided if I wanted. A lot of player are using archers on LS and we always have tamers.
Last night I saw a guy on a giant beetle. Dressed in cloth. It kinda looked like he was just looting corpses. Maybe selling the resources and getting the gold.
That is a smart, I have been checking the corpses as well and found some useful items. One of them was a 10 SSI and 25 DI ring but is prized. Maybe that is why I am slower in getting drops.
ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
To keep things on topic - I find that when possible using a demon cameo (assuming you have one) paired with a demon 100% cold slayer is highly effective for a majority of the spawn. Just be sure to swap them out if you face a lava element paragon as they will tear you up since they are the anti slayer.