Proposed buff to imbuing & minor tweaks to reforging.

Gwen

CovenantX said:

CovenantX said:

Just a few ideas to improve imbuing, some of which have been mentioned before.

1) Remove the "Item Weight" limit on items, but keep the current property cap of 5/5 for imbued items.

2) Allow Artifacts with less than 6 properties to be imbued again.

3) Remove the possibilities of these magic properties from reforging.

       % Lower Requirements

       % Durability 

 

Items with 6 or more properties will be unable to be imbued, as is currently.

@ Bleak  @ Kyronix @ Mesanna   are these things you might consider changing?

 

Sure they will not. 
1- you propose to make equal 1  and 2- handed weapon? Their weight limit is made on purpose. Same for looted/bought and exceptional. 
2 - i also want this but dont think you can push something into thise artifacts with current limits. And I think limits are important and should stay. 
3 - no. They also should be. Like loot you dont need and properties you dont need. This brings randomness in reforging process. Dont like it- just buy reforged stuff on VS with gold you earned elsewere. 

Imbuing is kinda way to make weak but not random equipment. Looted is better,. But you need to spend LOTS of time to find the right piece. 
Reforging can make some properties better than imbuing . Price is - lots of crap in the process. 

McDougle

Gwen said:

CovenantX said:

CovenantX said:

Just a few ideas to improve imbuing, some of which have been mentioned before.

1) 

Sure they will not. 
1- you propose to make equal 1  and 2- handed weapon? Their weight limit is made on purpose. Same for looted/bought and exceptional. 
2 - i also want this but dont think you can push something into thise artifacts with current limits. And I think limits are important and should stay. 
3 - no. They also should be. Like loot you dont need and properties you dont need. This brings randomness in reforging process. Dont like it- just buy reforged stuff on VS with gold you earned elsewere. 

Imbuing is kinda way to make weak but not random equipment. Looted is better,. But you need to spend LOTS of time to find the right piece. 
Reforging can make some properties better than imbuing . Price is - lots of crap in the process. 

Why is RANDOM acceptable?? 
If your mage cast random spells would it be acceptable??
If your pet attacks random targets is it acceptable??
If your weapon struck randomly would it be acceptable???
Just no no no 
Random in crafting is totally unacceptable....

Seth

Gwen said:

CovenantX said:

CovenantX said:

Just a few ideas to improve imbuing, some of which have been mentioned before.

1) Remove the "Item Weight" limit on items, but keep the current property cap of 5/5 for imbued items.

2) Allow Artifacts with less than 6 properties to be imbued again.

3) Remove the possibilities of these magic properties from reforging.

       % Lower Requirements

       % Durability 

 

Items with 6 or more properties will be unable to be imbued, as is currently.

@ Bleak  @ Kyronix @ Mesanna   are these things you might consider changing?

 

Sure they will not. 
1- you propose to make equal 1  and 2- handed weapon? Their weight limit is made on purpose. Same for looted/bought and exceptional. 
2 - i also want this but dont think you can push something into thise artifacts with current limits. And I think limits are important and should stay. 
3 - no. They also should be. Like loot you dont need and properties you dont need. This brings randomness in reforging process. Dont like it- just buy reforged stuff on VS with gold you earned elsewere. 

Imbuing is kinda way to make weak but not random equipment. Looted is better,. But you need to spend LOTS of time to find the right piece. 
Reforging can make some properties better than imbuing . Price is - lots of crap in the process. 

I think they should move everything up one notch to make the game more exciting. It won't make any template overpowered, and if they do they can also move up new bosses difficulty level by another notch as well. 

Make imbuing better and make legendary... "legendary" and not trash. I agree with all OP's suggestions. 

Gwen

McDougle said:

Why is RANDOM acceptable?? 
If your mage cast random spells would it be acceptable??
If your pet attacks random targets is it acceptable??
If your weapon struck randomly would it be acceptable???
Just no no no 
Random in crafting is totally unacceptable....

Haha. My pets AI use skills randomly. Yes it is acceptable. Check how many tamers are here. 
There is Mystic spel lNeither Bolt. random. There is chaos damage on weapon. There is bladeweave special move. Ilsh has 1/20 possibility to spawn a paragon. Fishing, Treasure hunting - all same. Ore and wood type cnanges randomly.  Dont like it- then dont use it.  Do something else. Lots of activities in the game.  Lizardmen give totally predictable leather, same amount. 

You have initial possibility to:
1- buy weapon from NPC. No random here.
2- Go kill mobs and get a weapon. Can be really powerfull. With or without disadvantages (brittle , antique, overweight)  Also can be powerfull but not the one anybody need. Like some fencing with bad specials. 
3-  Craft. Gives you total not random possibility to get exceptional thing. With no random 35-40 DI. 4 - reforge. Random but  have degree of control. You get weapon you need and with possibility to get very high properties.  Need materials and time for BOD =>runic kits. 
5- imbue. Nothing random. Do what you want but with caps. So looted weapon can be (theoretically) more powerfull and , clean( POFable).  You can make all slayers with specials you need in no time. Or jewels that fit our template. To go kill mobs and loot something better.

This are all possibilities. You can use them or not. Think some not acceptable for you - there is VS at your service.  

CovenantX

Gwen said:

CovenantX said:

CovenantX said:

Just a few ideas to improve imbuing, some of which have been mentioned before.

1) Remove the "Item Weight" limit on items, but keep the current property cap of 5/5 for imbued items.

2) Allow Artifacts with less than 6 properties to be imbued again.

3) Remove the possibilities of these magic properties from reforging.

       % Lower Requirements

       % Durability 

 

Items with 6 or more properties will be unable to be imbued, as is currently.

@ Bleak  @ Kyronix @ Mesanna   are these things you might consider changing?

 

Sure they will not. 
1- you propose to make equal 1  and 2- handed weapon? Their weight limit is made on purpose. Same for looted/bought and exceptional. 

Imbuing is kinda way to make weak but not random equipment. Looted is better,. But you need to spend LOTS of time to find the right piece. 
Reforging can make some properties better than imbuing . Price is - lots of crap in the process. 

   2h weapons have higher base damage than any equal speed 1h weapon, so that's just false.

1h weapons would be slightly better than current 1h weapons... instead of 80% intensity on the 5th mod, you could go to 100% intensity...   (more if you reforge/loot that base item with multiple over-cap properties) 

 if the weight limit was set in place as a means to balance 1 & 2h weapons, it's been wrong.

by that logic, 2h weapons property caps should be nearly doubled what a 1h weapon has.

for example,  Luck..  150 on 1h weapon, 150 (should be somewhere around 200-250 pre-enhanced) on 2h weapon.... but you can use a shield with a 1h weapon.  so using a 2-hander, you lose out of another 150 (190 after enhancing).   I'm not asking for that though.  because people would no doubt want that on ranged weapons, then you would really have  a balancing problem.

 5 properties even if you had  four over-capped mods with one empty space for one imbued mod you still have to get that item first through loot or reforging.     all it really does is make lower end items slightly more usable both from loot & reforging with mid-level runics like: copper through agapite runics (and equivalent kits for other skills) more usable.

Any 8 property item would still be superior to an imbued piece, unless those mods 4+ mods don't compliment each other.... but that's no different than it is now.

  # 3: removing % Lower requirements & % Durability isn't going to remove the 'randomness' from reforging, those properties only show up from 'random reforge' or 'exquisite/Of Quality" anyway,   it's going to remove mods that have no meaningful use anywhere in the game.

Pawain

Getting rid of lower requirements and durability should be done.  They are still random when you reforge.

You can get both of those when enhancing. So, it it a duplicate property.

I just made a ring that cant get 5 properties:

Dex 8
HCI 15
DCI 15
Parry 15

Its 490 weight.

CovenantX

One thing..  if # 1 proposal is being considered.

it might be worth while to make 'Assassin Honed' count as 1 property.  Bane seems to also be a property that doesn't count against imbuing's # property limit cap.

Gwen

Pawain said:

Getting rid of lower requirements and durability should be done.  They are still random when you reforge.

You can get both of those when enhancing. So, it it a duplicate property.

I just made a ring that cant get 5 properties:

Dex 8
HCI 15
DCI 15
Parry 15

Its 490 weight.

Good ring. You can put it on and go kill something to loot a better ring. 
Same as Sampire-starting  jewels with
DEX 7 
STR 7
HCI 13
DCI 13
DI 22

Foos

Right now the weight restriction on reforged and imbued items is as good as it's going to get.  It's good enough that imbued stuff is a step below the best legendary and major artifacts.  That's the way it should be because we are not victim to waiting for a drop with these items.  We can gather resources and make them happen and that's good. 

If I were to ask for a change it would be this, 

Add the ability to reforge with Tinkering so that we could make clean SSI Jewlery.  Those drops are super rare and take a lot of time that honestly could be better spent on game content.  Adding tools to tinkering would also add more content to crafting which would be good.  I've got about 400-500 tinkering BOD's in case this ever happens already. 

The other change I would ask for is not related to this but to drops.  Why are all legendary bracelt's and rings antiuqe?  That renders them almost useless to most pvm templates.  We should be able to get them in brittle.  My 2 cents there.

Gwen

Foos said:

Right now the weight restriction on reforged and imbued items is as good as it's going to get.  It's good enough that imbued stuff is a step below the best legendary and major artifacts.  That's the way it should be because we are not victim to waiting for a drop with these items.  We can gather resources and make them happen and that's good. 

If I were to ask for a change it would be this, 

Add the ability to reforge with Tinkering so that we could make clean SSI Jewlery.  Those drops are super rare and take a lot of time that honestly could be better spent on game content.  Adding tools to tinkering would also add more content to crafting which would be good.  I've got about 400-500 tinkering BOD's in case this ever happens already. 

The other change I would ask for is not related to this but to drops.  Why are all legendary bracelt's and rings antiuqe?  That renders them almost useless to most pvm templates.  We should be able to get them in brittle.  My 2 cents there.

1- clean SSI jewelry is not very rare. People just dont farm stuff that drops them and dont loot all they kill during champ spawn. Everybody is aiming for end-game content. Where you get 5-30 legendaries and 1-2 Major Magic or even less  minor Magic.   Which are clean SSI.   If you want to get it- you need to play different. And loot every mob, and check every item. Nobody wants to do that => price for 10 SSI 35 DI is auction one. Note even vendor. 

2- Because the more properties spawn on an item - the hgher chance it will have disadvantage. Like cursed or antique.  So getting clean legendary is possible (i had several in underwater) but very rare. Geting clean legendary with usefull combination is of cource very-very rare . 
And yes, since everybody is looting legendaries during their gameplay , lots of them are very cheap and most of them good only for unraveling. Or for new toon training. There are some PVM activities antique jewels are good enough. Like rising tide.  


I will be happy to have something usefull as tinker BOD reward too. I  stopped gathering them. 

Bilbo

Foos said:

Right now the weight restriction on reforged and imbued items is as good as it's going to get.  It's good enough that imbued stuff is a step below the best legendary and major artifacts.

Just a step below, yea right.

Watch that first STEP, it's a doozy.

Foos

Gwen said:

Foos said:

Right now the weight restriction on reforged and imbued items is as good as it's going to get.  It's good enough that imbued stuff is a step below the best legendary and major artifacts.  That's the way it should be because we are not victim to waiting for a drop with these items.  We can gather resources and make them happen and that's good. 

If I were to ask for a change it would be this, 

Add the ability to reforge with Tinkering so that we could make clean SSI Jewlery.  Those drops are super rare and take a lot of time that honestly could be better spent on game content.  Adding tools to tinkering would also add more content to crafting which would be good.  I've got about 400-500 tinkering BOD's in case this ever happens already. 

The other change I would ask for is not related to this but to drops.  Why are all legendary bracelt's and rings antiuqe?  That renders them almost useless to most pvm templates.  We should be able to get them in brittle.  My 2 cents there.

1- clean SSI jewelry is not very rare. People just dont farm stuff that drops them and dont loot all they kill during champ spawn. Everybody is aiming for end-game content. Where you get 5-30 legendaries and 1-2 Major Magic or even less  minor Magic.   Which are clean SSI.   If you want to get it- you need to play different. And loot every mob, and check every item. Nobody wants to do that => price for 10 SSI 35 DI is auction one. Note even vendor. 

2- Because the more properties spawn on an item - the hgher chance it will have disadvantage. Like cursed or antique.  So getting clean legendary is possible (i had several in underwater) but very rare. Geting clean legendary with usefull combination is of cource very-very rare . 
And yes, since everybody is looting legendaries during their gameplay , lots of them are very cheap and most of them good only for unraveling. Or for new toon training. There are some PVM activities antique jewels are good enough. Like rising tide.  


I will be happy to have something usefull as tinker BOD reward too. I  stopped gathering them. 

You got me there, if I'm doing a champion spawn I'm not stopping to loot, I'm trying to get in and get out as quickly as I can before the red's come.

Foos

Bilbo said:

Foos said:

Right now the weight restriction on reforged and imbued items is as good as it's going to get.  It's good enough that imbued stuff is a step below the best legendary and major artifacts.

Just a step below, yea right.

Watch that first STEP, it's a doozy.

If you look at Legendary's that can have what 8 things on them at whatever intensity (is it 8 or 7?) or imbued that can have 5 then you can look at it that way.  But those 7 or 8 are random and the 5 you get to pick.  Being able to pick exactly what you want is pretty powerful.  The chance of getting "exactly" what you want from the loot generation system is pretty low.

Gwen

Foos said:

You got me there, if I'm doing a champion spawn I'm not stopping to loot, I'm trying to get in and get out as quickly as I can before the red's come.

Yomotsu and Tsuki you kill during Yukio quest drop goooood stuff. Most just run quest, without looting
There are no reds in Ilshennar and Tokuno spawns. Nobody is looting. At least I never noticed people stop and loot. 
I dont think lots of people loot those wisp in underwater. 

Foos

Gwen said:

Foos said:

You got me there, if I'm doing a champion spawn I'm not stopping to loot, I'm trying to get in and get out as quickly as I can before the red's come.

Yomotsu and Tsuki you kill during Yukio quest drop goooood stuff. Most just run quest, without looting
There are no reds in Ilshennar and Tokuno spawns. Nobody is looting. At least I never noticed people stop and loot. 
I dont think lots of people loot those wisp in underwater. 

I loot that stuff.  I've never gotten a clean SSI ring doing that.  I've gotten a 10% with a second property that would be useful on certain templates and I've gotten 5% cleans.  I've run that quest over 50x heh.

Late edit:  I was thinking about trying something like Earth Elementals or even Wisps like you said.  See how that goes.  Maybe fighting low level stuff with luck gets it done? 

Pawain

Also have to remember you can not always get 5 mods with imbuing jewelry.

Gwen said:

Good ring. You can put it on and go kill something to loot a better ring. 
Same as Sampire-starting  jewels with
DEX 7 
STR 7
HCI 13
DCI 13
DI 22

LOL you are arguing how OP imbuing is and then confirm you can only make starter jewelry.

Also I have a lot of playable toons, I make all jewels for my dexxers because they need skills, I have looted things for years and never found a jewel for a dexxer that I can use and I have seven of them that all have a little different builds so a jewel would fit one of them if I found one.

The only looted jewels I use are on mages.  Can find lots of multi property mage jewels where everything is used.  Even tho you say looted items are supposed to have things not used.

The problem is, the loot is highly weighted to mage items.  Few mobs even have a chance to drop dex items.  Here are examples of things I put on beginner mage suits, all the properties are useful. And I have hundreds of these things, The antiques are junk I just have them to show even where there are more properties, they also fit the theme.

CovenantX

5/5 properties you want (Imbued), made more powerful by crafting/looting/reforging a base item with 1 or more over-capped mods, below 5 total properties.

vs 

X/8 (weapons & jewelry) or X/13 properties. (Armor - counting resistances) randomly generated, most of which will have some properties that aren't desired.

That could be countered simply by allowing high-end artifacts to be generated without a Prefix or Suffix (No-name) again.  -Which should be done anyway.

This would allow every property on the item to be random, most no-name items would still not be good cause the chances of mod combos that don't compliment each other would increase, but you could get 8/8 useful properties if the items were completely random, rather than drawing 50-100% of their properties form a small pool of mods available through their affixes.

without one affix items or no-name items. It is not possible to find items with

HPI, Mana, Stamina & LMC on one piece.

CovenantX

5 properties would remain the cap for imbued items, just suggesting the item weight limit be removed.    the properties imbued in an item couldn't exceed the current maximum imbuing intensity.

some others suggested up to 6 imbued mods, but i feel that's pushing it a little too far.

Foos

CovenantX said:

5 properties would remain the cap for imbued items, just suggesting the item weight limit be removed.    the properties imbued in an item couldn't exceed the current maximum imbuing intensity.

some others suggested up to 6 imbued mods, but i feel that's pushing it a little too far.

I don't take issue with anything you posted.  I was just tired of Bilbo calling me clueless when it's obvious that he can't build a suit.  But yeah even 5 max mod's would be really over kill I think.  I still think the best thing would be to allow Tinker's to reforge that way you could more easily balance your suit out with the legendary pieces you have.  For example if you need 20 dci or 20 hci you can reforge it, if you need 10 ssi you can reforge that.  You could reforge 150 luck.  Lots of possibilities that we simply do not have now.

Pawain

Not that this will go anywhere, 
First a suit is 6 pieces.  Head, neck, arms, chest, gloves, legs.
You use Barbed or Valorite to craft the starting pieces when you are only going to imbue.  You pick and choose pieces.  You can have 2 resists at 14 on each piece. But you try for a more even spread so none go over 70 by much. So by making the suit at one time you can get 3 resists at 70 and just need to imbue 2 resists on.
It's not something I would do but you can do it.  We did it before reforging.

Foos

Pawain said:

Not that this will go anywhere, 
First a suit is 6 pieces.  Head, neck, arms, chest, gloves, legs.
You use Barbed or Valorite to craft the starting pieces when you are only going to imbue.  You pick and choose pieces.  You can have 2 resists at 14 on each piece. But you try for a more even spread so none go over 70 by much. So by making the suit at one time you can get 3 resists at 70 and just need to imbue 2 resists on.
It's not something I would do but you can do it.  We did it before reforging.

No you got me, it was 1 legendary sleeves and 5 crafted pieces.  I didn't do it the way you are suggesting but I did use the UO store at the end. (Which some people will, won't do up to them).  I have the one over capped legendary sleeves, lots of good stuff.  The other 5 pieces are all regular plate pieces reforged with Animated/of Haste with a shadow hammer I believe.  My process was I would craft 20 or so pieces of each kind on average to get 5-6 that had desirable exceptional bonus.  (They tend to be all physical and you don't want that).  Then I'd take those 5-6 and reforge them 1 at a time until I got one with +4 dex and nothing else to speak off.  Then I'd powder them and add the 8 lmc, and 8 stamina.  After that I added the resists.  I don't know why people say 15 because you can go higher with boura pelts but whhhhhatever.  I'm doing this and counting the resists as I run through this process with each piece to make sure I get to exactly where I want to be.  The last stumbling block is covering that 25 fire resists you lose because of vampiric embrace.  That's where the store came in.  I used the store tool to make sure I wouldn't fail and I enhanced the pieces with Agapite for the additional 7 fire resist per piece.  Done.   

CovenantX

Just a side note.

Studded Leather Armor. has a base total resistance of 16. (2/4/3/3/4)

everything else (non-gargish) is 15 total (pre exceptional / armslore / magic prop- increases), so a 5pc set of studded Leather Armor will net you +5 more total resistance above any other armor type.   

of course, most people don't use a lot of imbued pieces much anymore, so this information isn't as helpful now as it was when imbued gear was considered 'the best'.

Pawain

Ya the tool would work with imbuing because you pick resists and you add what you want.  My post was not referring to you.  You are imbuing a lot and you know you can imbue to make a suit.

I try to build around.  Bane legs, Feudal Grip, and prismatic lens or  Mace and shield.
So I just need arms, chest and gorget. I find one of those 3 with high resists from loot. Then just have to reforge until I run out of patience and keep the best item.

Some of my dexxers have all or more looted or reforged pieces.  I like putting suits together.

But you can Imbue a suit that works for you, and the store tool would greatly help with that.
I just wish you could reforge a hundred things and use the tool on the 2 keeper items you get.

Rorschach

This thread has had some posts removed. Please post mindfully and with respect.