Pre-AoS Stun

LynkLynk Posts: 160
edited June 9 in PvP / VvV
Please consider adding the Pre-AOS unbreakable stun to wrestling mastery, and tie the duration to real skill in wrestle/anat and mastery level, scaling from 1 second to four seconds.  Leave the requirement of empty hands in place.

It will require a huge skill point/equipment sacrifice to use it, and leave you quite vulnerable in the process.  

As it is, the wrestling mastery is useless.  I'm sure if you did a quick peek at number of players who actually use it, you'll see that no one does.

  1. Incorporate Pre-AOS Stun as Wrestling mastery?14 votes
    1. Yes as written
      42.86%
    2. No
      42.86%
    3. Yes but other changes to how it is described above
      14.29%

Comments

  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 402
    you're kidding right, giving up a weapon OR shield on a Mage for a 4s stun that's even closer to impossible for a dexer to compete with than your standard Parry-mage? 

    Wrestling-Mastery is pretty damn useless.... but Parry Mastery isn't bad and wrestling is the only combat skill paired with it that doesn't have any real sacrifices.

    Wrestling Mastery is useless when there's been several useless masteries with very little to no mention... in addition to the timing of this discussion it never ceases to amaze.  but carry on!

    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • LynkLynk Posts: 160
    I get it covenant, you want to run around weakening people for another 20 years.  
  • FavianFavian Posts: 2
    would need a timer as well.
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 402
    nah, what I really want are two things.

    1) Reduced parry chance if magery => 50.0   (50% reduction in parry chance)
    2) Block login attempts via unapproved programs.  

    I'd still like to see casting focus removed from pvp as well as the poison immunity aka 'free cure'.(as my sig says...) but dueling is non-existent so i guess that doesn't really matter anymore.


    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • GeorgeGeorge Posts: 8
    edited June 9
    Covenant doesn't seem to understand that the problem with the game right now is a lack of diversity, which is disturbing for someone who has "eliminate chance in pvp" as their signature. What is being played right now? Splinter/Evade/Mage, Splinter/Evade/Dexer, Balakai/Evade/Mage, Parry/Mage, Splinter/Parry/Chiv/Glenda.

    This stun really is no worse than splinter, a free bleed + force walk (tHaT cOsTs DuRaBiLiTy) and it busts the runaway forever evasion meta while also keeping the stunner squishy and vulnerable with only wrestling + dci to rely on and no evasion for dumps. And to anyone who thinks otherwise, I invite them to step away from their zerg, make a wrestle dci mage without parry, and give it a go for a day.

    Reduce the stun to two seconds, re-introduce it through the ingame macro, and make the cost a flat 20-25% of the user's max stamina.

    We have more ways to survive with gross suits, templates, and consumables than UOR players. Yet they manage just fine.
  • The_Higgs_1The_Higgs_1 Posts: 383
    Remove evasion from casting schools and template diversity will show up!!
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 402
    edited June 10
    lack of diversity is one of the problems in the game right now, sure...  but a 4s stun-punch is going to do the opposite of what you're arguing.   even at 2s it'll be stupid enough to phase out half the templates on your very small list of 100% parry-using templates LOL 

    I'm also not sure how someone would come to the conclusion that:
    a 4s Unbreakable stun is less powerful than a breakable 4s forced walk + bleed weapon proc.  especially when you take into account what it can be combined with it.

    Splintering is very powerful for a weapon proc, sure.  but game-breaking?  even if you go through the full un-broken effect of a splinter proc, it's not even close to what a 4s stun would be by people who actually know what they're doing. 

    Btw, i already play without Parry+Evade, I play all mages, all the time (because parry makes playing a dexer boring A F).... 80-90% of the people I fight have parry though, the ~10-20% that don't can't because they're archers/throwers.   so you'd be asking the wrong guy to play without parry.

    I'd rather see short cooldown on trapped boxes.   I'm not a fan of them either, but i sure as s**t ain't a fan of making wrestling the best 'weapon skill' in the game because of only one perk.


    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • GeorgeGeorge Posts: 8
    There are plenty of ways to work around the four second stun. Turkey feathers, seed of life, teleport ring, xheals, pre-evasion, heal pot, spellweaving buffs, invis items, barrab potion, things that are being used very frequently right now.

    The only people I've seen who say that there is nothing game breaking about splinter are people who crutch splinter either personally or by proxy of having a splinter bot in their group. There is a reason why 90% of the pvp meta on the only server with any actual competitive pvp is based around it. There is a reason the devs have tried to nerf it multiple times and still haven't managed to hinder it in any meaningful way.

    Given the dev's track record for almost everything they touch pvp wise, it baffles me why people are begging them to reinvent the wheel in the shape of re-structured core mechanics instead of simply adding one thing that breaks that meta up.

    Some other guy said it best in a post on discord, and like it or not, they are right. "With the current state of the PvP meta, a short unbreakable stun is what this game needs."

    Why? Because third party client assistants run unregulated, allowing people to automate trapped crates. And guess what, those client assistants and scripts aren't going anywhere. Not because the devs don't care, but because there isn't anything they can do about them. All the talk about "blocking them" etc is pointless. Those are freeserver specific handshakes. 

    You want them to re-design how evasion, bushido, parry all interact with magery? It will fail, like the majority of all the other PvP targeted re-designs, and then be left in a worse off state than it is now.

    The answer is obvious, and hey the stun punch could have been worse. It could have been doing 50+ dmg per hit, proccing a splinter at no additional resource cost, and hit spell on top of the paralyze.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • CookieCookie Posts: 814
    edited June 10

    I can see @lynk and @george points.

    Wrestling mastery is underpowered. The game could maybe use a proper stun for mages - afterall, they cannot dismount easily. It would counter dismount nicely. Make players move away from this.

    It would also promote cross healing and teamwork.

    There is a lack of diversity in the game, imo, everything is a Dexxer these days - ie, due to the extraordinary amount of Dex they have. Be it a Dexxer with Magery, or a Mage with Dexterity - all the same thing, it's all merged together. Even Parry Mages with 80+ Dex are Dexxers - imo - strange opinion I know, but you cannot persuade me otherwise. For a Pure Mage, that Dexterity is required in Mana, to actually cast a decent amount of spells.

    I'm not going to get into another argument with @covenantx , I get his point that dexxers hitting players with parry is frustrating - but the truth is a. everyone is a dexxer {even the mages with their Dex/Boks etc} and b. everyone has parry because they have to, and c. it only takes 1 overpowered special from a dexxer to change a fight, so it doesn't matter if they miss 10 times, and get 1 dismount/nerve strike/splinter/deathstrike/lethal poison, the fight is almost over.

    What would be good, would be to promote a character style, that does not need such high Dexterity - like the old fashioned mages. Making Wrestle Mastery more useful could help, and could maybe reduce Dexxers(everyone)/Parry.

  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 402
    edited June 10

    George said:
    There are plenty of ways to work around the four second stun. Turkey feathers, seed of life, teleport ring, xheals, pre-evasion, heal pot, spellweaving buffs, invis items, barrab potion, things that are being used very frequently right now.

    The only people I've seen who say that there is nothing game breaking about splinter are people who crutch splinter either personally or by proxy of having a splinter bot in their group. There is a reason why 90% of the pvp meta on the only server with any actual competitive pvp is based around it. There is a reason the devs have tried to nerf it multiple times and still haven't managed to hinder it in any meaningful way.

    your work arounds for a 4s stun also work against splintering weapon, but better... as well as the ones you didn't mention.    but somehow splintering is worse, immunity timer, offense & defense as well as limited mobility are still in play While splintered...   literally none of it is in play with a stun.


    yea, the reason for splinter is to prevent people from easily getting away from 1-tile dexers. Why do you think it spawns only on melee weapons?    

    The problem with splintering is that template that don't need it are able to use it.   that's it,    you take splintering weapon away from templates with  Magery, Throwing or Archery... splintering is no longer an issue.   cause the only templates beyond that have worse offense.

    Personally I don't like that splintering is a hit-spell, tbh it should be something tied to swords, macing & fencing mastery restricted with <50.0 in magery, archery, or throwing of course.  just so a dexer can have more control over when it goes off, instead of its randomness, but that's just me.


    90% of the pvp meta is based around evasion too, what's your point?   
    George said:

    We have more ways to survive with gross suits, templates, and consumables than UOR players. Yet they manage just fine.
      get rid of parry, that's one less crutch to survive.

    Cookie said:

    I can see @ lynk and @ george points.

    Wrestling mastery is underpowered. The game could maybe use a proper stun for mages - afterall, they cannot dismount easily. It would counter dismount nicely. Make players move away from this.


    There is a lack of diversity in the game, imo, everything is a Dexxer these days - ie, due to the extraordinary amount of Dex they have. Be it a Dexxer with Magery, or a Mage with Dexterity - all the same thing, it's all merged together. Even Parry Mages with 80+ Dex are Dexxers - imo - strange opinion I know, but you cannot persuade me otherwise. For a Pure Mage, that Dexterity is required in Mana, to actually cast a decent amount of spells.

    I'm not going to get into another argument with @ covenantx , I get his point that dexxers hitting players with parry is frustrating - but the truth is a. everyone is a dexxer {even the mages with their Dex/Boks etc} and b. everyone has parry because they have to, and c. it only takes 1 overpowered special from a dexxer to change a fight, so it doesn't matter if they miss 10 times, and get 1 dismount/nerve strike/splinter/deathstrike/lethal poison, the fight is almost over.

    What would be good, would be to promote a character style, that does not need such high Dexterity - like the old fashioned mages. Making Wrestle Mastery more useful could help, and could maybe reduce Dexxers(everyone)/Parry.

      
     
     everyone agrees that Wrestling Mastery is underpowered, so are some other masteries, only a few are actually useful in pvp.

     your point about everything being a dexer.    I get it, the problem with it is that a dexer most often has no other source of damage OR interruption aside from their weapon, you won't kill anyone with less than 3 hits, most people will take a minimum of 5 hits.

     Now a Mage with a weapon doesn't need to land a hit anywhere near as often as a dexer does, because 80% of their damage is coming from spells, which will reliably hit... and not only that, they often do more damage than most attacks any dexer can perform.

     it doesn't matter if a dexer misses 10 times.... then suddenly lands 5 hits in a row.    you sit there for those 12..5s + doing nothing while the dexer is missing?    what kind of example is that?   I mean, i wouldn't be surprised about 10 misses in a row,  It happens when I fight dexers sometimes and I don't have parry.   generally they're either dead or running to keep themselves from dying at that point.

    You talk about promoting a char style that doesn't need Dex....  but you know the only templates that need dex at all are  Parry mages & Healing Mages.... and of course almost every type of dexer because their weapon is useless if it doesn't attack fast enough to stop people from healing.  as if it's ever going to hit often enough to do it is another story...   I don't have more than 10 dex (some at 15 'real dex" no more than 30-35 with mods) on any mage right now.  Mages have no need for dex, even as a tank-mage unless you add Parry / bushido... or healing.

    I mean, who gives a f--- about how fast the weapon swings when you only need it to hit once during or after a combo?

     @Cookie ;  I'd like you to give me an example of an "Overpowered Dexer Special" that's is more dangerous coming from a straight dexer, than it is from any template with either Magery, archery or throwing.    I'm going to say there are none, but I've been surprised before..

     

    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • CookieCookie Posts: 814
    edited June 10
    CovenantX said:

     @ Cookie   I'd like you to give me an example of an "Overpowered Dexer Special" that's is more dangerous coming from a straight dexer, than it is from any template with either Magery, archery or throwing.    I'm going to say there are none, but I've been surprised before..

     


    Deathstrike? Can hit for 50, 3 hits in a row dead if moving, and can stack.

    Lethal Poison Nox Dexxer? - can take 10-20 cures to finally work (even with 50EP), by which time you are usually dead.


    I do wonder if a lot of our differences are solo play v group play. I play in groups. My experience of solo play, is everything is pretty much stalemate. Any decent player, will play to a draw usually. It is only in group play, that the different skills come to play. And at that point, some skills are way more OP on the group dynamic than others. You just cannot play a mage without parry, in group play. Or quite frankly against the dexxers I play against, in solo play.


  • LynkLynk Posts: 160
    edited June 10
    Why are you guys hijacking this thread to whine about parry being overpowered.  Dexer disarm syncs > evaders,  evaders > mage syncs, mage syncs > wrestle parry.  It's a rock paper scissor. 

    You cannot further reduce parry for casters.  Dexers will be completely overpowered.  If you truly think your non-parry mage can beat either of my dexers I'd be happy to prove you wrong.

    I'd be open to nerfing parry for ALL templates, but not just casters. 
  • LynkLynk Posts: 160
    Favian said:
    would need a timer as well.
    Theres a timer on the mechanic already, both on the recipient and the stunner.  I believe it is 5 seconds.  I'd say probably align it with other paralyze/nerve timers at 10s.
  • GeorgeGeorge Posts: 8
    @CovenantX you seem to make your arguments based on some degree of personal bias. You should try to set that aside and look at the entire scope of what's happened to PvP as a whole, and not just what you've seen in your apparent and very obvious narrow/limited view of it.
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 402
    edited June 11
    Lynk said:
    Favian said:
    would need a timer as well.
    Theres a timer on the mechanic already, both on the recipient and the stunner.  I believe it is 5 seconds.  I'd say probably align it with other paralyze/nerve timers at 10s.
         you're wrong... the stunner has the cooldown timer, the recipient has nothing.  meaning in a group fight, say 2-3 wrestle mages vs whatever the hell you want the other templates to be, unless they had the ability to stun as well, the winners will always be the people with stun. 

    you could even stun while someone is under paralysis immunity, Obviously you didn't know about it, but it didn't take long for you to start whining to bring it back in some way shape or form.
      
    you're thinking about the paralyzing blow immunity. which is the recipient only.  they did not carry over at all with the stun that was just fixed.  

    if anything, paralyzing blow should just be a 2s stun, with a 20-30s immunity timer.  no cooldown necessary.      only applicable if the weapon skill (or wrestling) Mastery is active during the use,  
    If the active mastery isn't a weapon skill mastery, it'll function as paralyzing blow does currently. Riding swipe & Nerve Strike shouldn't be affected.

      The stun 100% cannot be something only available to wrestling, it more than a 2s duration is very excessive.


    George said:
    Reduce the stun to two seconds, re-introduce it through the ingame macro, and make the cost a flat 20-25% of the user's max stamina.
      20-25% of the users max stamina? That is not a cost'of substance whatsoever, stamina as a resource wouldn't work in current UO, where Stamina  regeneration from items or skills can top it off on their own before the stun immunity would even be expired (if we go with the same timers as paralyzing blow).  and refresh potions would cause this resource to be meaningless as well... . What kind of "Cost" is that?   get that garbage out of here.

     @Cookie ;   Deathstrike isn't a special, but for sake of argument.... a dexer's DS & a Mages DS are literally the same... but a mage generally already has delayed spells enroute to combo with it.  dexers essentially start their 'combo' over with each swing, because 1 or 2 misses and they're back to square one because they're unable to prevent healing or incoming spell damage.  

      same exact thing as it relates to LP, mages can apply it via weapon...  you argue about cure potions failing on it all the time, but you seem to be with the majority of people who just chug (with or without a script) as soon as they're poisoned, instead of using any skill-based methods at all... this is why you guys feel like dexers are over powering, no body has timing anymore.   hence one of the reasons, i sometimes say.. there aren't any good pvpers left in UO anymore.

      you can literally cast Arch-Cure between every single swing (even if you're hit 100% of the time, which will Never happen) without interruption  because it's a 1.00s cast (at 2 fc) vs a  1.25s+ weapon-based attack. but i guess when you can compensate the lack of timing with consumables in every situation and/or a simple "if true" script,  That is to be expected.

    Lynk said:
    You cannot further reduce parry for casters.  Dexers will be completely overpowered.  If you truly think your non-parry mage can beat either of my dexers I'd be happy to prove you wrong.

    I'd be open to nerfing parry for ALL templates, but not just casters. 

        you say further reduce parry for casters like it's been done.... it hasn't happened. they reduced SDI (Parry counts against focus spec)  Not parry block chance which has always been the problem with casters using parry,  Missed/blocked attacks, means less interruption.  it has nothing to do with the actual damage a dexer could potentially deal out.

        I don' t see a point in nerfing parry for templates that lack the offense to do anything but survive on it.. but breaking parry across the board for everything would be the next best option.... anything that gets parry out of the way would be a hell of a lot better than it is under the current system.



    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • GeorgeGeorge Posts: 8
    edited June 11
    Lol "refresh pot makes it not a resource" "stamina regen makes it obsolete". One of the first videos that got pushed out was from the POV of a wrestle/archer. Tell me, how fast is 50 stamina going to be regenerated without a pot? Not very fast? Now use a refresh pot, that's an object cooldown, which means they have to wait 1 second to equip their weapon, then another second to swing their weapon. With a 2 second duration stun, that means they're not getting smashed by the archer.

    This is why trammies have little to no place exhibiting an opinion in pvp balancing, the state of VvV and a lot of what is wrong with PvP now versus PvP 5 years ago is a direct result of developer bias against PvPers and listening to trammies with no real experience and only biased hypothetical as the basis to their arguments.

    We get it, you went to destard once and got PKed. Stick to what you're good at, soloing Cora.

  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 402
    George said:
    @ CovenantX you seem to make your arguments based on some degree of personal bias. You should try to set that aside and look at the entire scope of what's happened to PvP as a whole, and not just what you've seen in your apparent and very obvious narrow/limited view of it.
        Means a lot coming from someone so clearly oblivious to the issues.    

    literally the only thing you said that was accurate is the 'lack of template diversity issue' then you proceed with suggestions that would make it worse.  you should take your own advice and look at the entire scope of the situation instead of suggesting something that is completely contradictory to what you're trying to accomplish.

    What have I said that is inaccurate?     I've pointed out the problem with your argument.    you are purposefully vague because you have nothing.   as expected.

      I'm not going to argue about personal bias when the facts and my bias' both conclude with the same end result.      So you want a stun punch why?   let's see that answer without 'personal bias'.

       I hope we have enough cheese to go with all this whine, it's going to be a long road... or river.
    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • GeorgeGeorge Posts: 8
    edited June 11
    Point and case, lmao. Everyone is wrong except you, ignore anything substantial because you personally don't want to deal with it, regardless of the beneficial impact it would have to re-shuffling the meta. What is your concern? That instead of running away from a nerve strike splinter mage you're going to have to run away from a stun mage? That everyone is going to re-roll stun mages? That the stun is set in stone and isn't able to be changed outside of your two days of experiencing it? That god forbid you have to actually learn how to play the game to play against it instead of being able to run away forever?

    News flash: Every group would probably pick up one, maybe two stun mages. Why? To perform the same task archers used to play, the same role that wakizashi death strikers became better at before the waki nerf, the same role that anything with splinter became the king of. Incapacitate into a synch.

    Welcome to Covenant Online, where nobody flags and serverlines are plentiful. A house is always nearby and the competition is always on a different server.
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 402
    George said:
    Lol "refresh pot makes it not a resource" "stamina regen makes it obsolete". One of the first videos that got pushed out was from the POV of a wrestle/archer. Tell me, how fast is 50 stamina going to be regenerated without a pot? Not very fast? Now use a refresh pot, that's an object cooldown, which means they have to wait 1 second to equip their weapon, then another second to swing their weapon. With a 2 second duration stun, that means they're not getting smashed by the archer.

    This is why trammies have little to no place exhibiting an opinion in pvp balancing, the state of VvV and a lot of what is wrong with PvP now versus PvP 5 years ago is a direct result of developer bias against PvPers and listening to trammies with no real experience and only biased hypothetical as the basis to their arguments.

    We get it, you went to destard once and got PKed. Stick to what you're good at, soloing Cora.

    @ CovenantX

        If 20-25% of your maximum stamina is the cost,  that's anywhere from 2 - 62 stamina the less you run the better off you are.     you don't know how your own proposal would work?  sure seems like it.   

    . you don't need stamina to swing some weapons at max speed btw. SSI is enough for most weapons people actually use now...  game mechanics aren't your strong suit that much is blatantly obvious.     I guess coming from a UOR player, you wouldn't know these things.   or you're leaving them out for your personal agenda.... hard to tell sometimes. but I'd go with the former on this one, for now, until it becomes more apparent with potential future evidence.  

      Hey bud,  Destard on any character is more dangerous than guardzone on a blue.  wouldn't you agree?
    . . .  
      Where did Cora come from?   at least parry is a legitimate issue in pvp. 
    you're throwing everything to the wall to see what sticks because like I said, you've got nothing.  


    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 402
    edited June 11
    George said:
    Point and case, lmao. Everyone is wrong except you, ignore anything substantial because you personally don't want to deal with it, regardless of the beneficial impact it would have to re-shuffling the meta. What is your concern?
       that's not what I'm saying at all.   I never said I was the only one with the answers.  if that's how you interpret criticism of a garbage suggestion... Well  that's on you.

       It's better for the devs to do nothing, than it is to go with your suggestion or lynk's suggestion in the OP.   that's just a bad start, definitely not my fault.
     
    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • The_Higgs_1The_Higgs_1 Posts: 383
    Im still waiting on the explanation of how it would reshuffle anything at all in pvp.  People already play wrestle parry mystic mages, wrestle parry necro mages.  All max offense and max defense PLUS range.  So someone takes off mystic or necro for your anatomy and uses that nonsense.  Nothing else changes,  evade mages, a form of wrestle parry mage, and 4/6 chiv evade still top meta in PvP.  Plus with your suggestion get a massive stun on top of it.  LOLOLOL.   Literally the worst idea for pvp ever.
  • RorschachRorschach Posts: 310Moderator
    This thread is becoming contentious and disrespectful. Refer to rules 7 and 1 of the terms of service.


  • CookieCookie Posts: 814
    edited June 11
    CovenantX said:
        

     @ Cookie    Deathstrike isn't a special, but for sake of argument.... a dexer's DS & a Mages DS are literally the same... but a mage generally already has delayed spells enroute to combo with it.  dexers essentially start their 'combo' over with each swing, because 1 or 2 misses and they're back to square one because they're unable to prevent healing or incoming spell damage.  

      same exact thing as it relates to LP, mages can apply it via weapon...  you argue about cure potions failing on it all the time, but you seem to be with the majority of people who just chug (with or without a script) as soon as they're poisoned, instead of using any skill-based methods at all... this is why you guys feel like dexers are over powering, no body has timing anymore.   hence one of the reasons, i sometimes say.. there aren't any good pvpers left in UO anymore.

      you can literally cast Arch-Cure between every single swing (even if you're hit 100% of the time, which will Never happen) without interruption  because it's a 1.00s cast (at 2 fc) vs a  1.25s+ weapon-based attack. but i guess when you can compensate the lack of timing with consumables in every situation and/or a simple "if true" script,  That is to be expected.



    Funny re the Deathstrike - yes, strictly speaking you are correct, but as a move, it's acting like a special, so I'm sticking with it. :)

    Re the LP you misunderstand my style of play badly. I'm a mage, I try the arch cures - I can tell you they are almost impossible to get in, especially when being disturbed by said fencer, or anyone else in his team. I don't use scripts, I do use arch cures, then bail onto cures when that has failed. Don't try and teach me to suck eggs.

    I don't use scripts. I play in Classic Client with no additions in pvp. I have some of the best timing/experience ingame, because this is all I have ever done. This is also why I know I am correct when I debate.

    And honestly, I'm done in this debate. I got Link and George's point, it could add something different than the same old tired routines out there atm, and could maybe change stuff. Everything you say, always seems to be from theory, I'd love to see you facing the nox dexxers I face and going "oh I'm sure my arch cure should be working here - my theorycraft told me it always does!" When I debate with you on pvp, it's like I'm debating with someone who has never done it before, wheras you can see from what Link and George say, they do actually pvp. I may agree or disagree with them, but at least I recognise their experiences, I don't recognise yours. Which usually means you do not pvp, because I know for sure I do. A lot.


  • ezikelezikel Posts: 82
    alone the Pre-AOS unbreakable stun to wrestling mastery can be good .but with the state of the game I cannot see how it would be beneficial for the pvp . it will only make archery and non-parry template even more unplayable .just imagine as combo nerve  splinter stun its 6 7 sec you cannot do anything
  • ElvisElvis Posts: 17
    nobody talking of unbreakable stun efield trap move.  with script for the noob use
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 402
    edited June 11
    Cookie said:

    Funny re the Deathstrike - yes, strictly speaking you are correct, but as a move, it's acting like a special, so I'm sticking with it. :)

    Re the LP you misunderstand my style of play badly. I'm a mage, I try the arch cures - I can tell you they are almost impossible to get in, especially when being disturbed by said fencer, or anyone else in his team. I don't use scripts, I do use arch cures, then bail onto cures when that has failed. Don't try and teach me to suck eggs.

    I don't use scripts. I play in Classic Client with no additions in pvp. I have some of the best timing/experience ingame, because this is all I have ever done. This is also why I know I am correct when I debate.

       DS acts like a special in the sense it requires the weapon (or wrestling) to hit for it to go off.
     that's why I added "for sake of argument" and detailed further why dexers are not as good with it as a mage is.   and thanks  I know I'm correct because I play my DS mages sometimes, one of the only things that punish people for running.

     I find the 3rd paragraph unbelievable, specifically the last sentence. 

     you're saying you're correct when you debate (in favor of) stun punch... except we've had stun punch back when the pace of pvp was much slower than it is today.      in today's pvp 4s stun is long enough to kill almost anyone in a one vs one setting. and easily extended if you think you'd need more time.  particularly against non-casters without unobtainable items (teleport rings).   

    We've had times in the history of pvp where things that were not even as powerful as the suggestion in the OP caused the meta to shift to only one thing. causing pvp to get boring real f-ing fast.     that's exactly what would happen again if this stun hadn't been fixed, and you guys didn't waste much time before you started asking for it back.     It's very sad and amusing at the same time. 
     
    Elvis said:
    nobody talking of unbreakable stun efield trap move.  with script for the noob use
       yea, it was mentioned in one of these threads.... it's highly anti-dexer. & pro group strat vs any template, with only a one-template option to use it.     this suggestion was dead on arrival in my mind.    I'm not even completely against a stun.  but this is just ridiculous.

     You can still stun people via different method, but there's quite a bit* of RNG involved. so it wouldn't be practical, more useful in a group than it would be as a solo player.   I'll let the "Pvpers" figure it out on their own, since they think they're correct in all of it.



    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 402
    Rorschach said:
    This thread is becoming contentious and disrespectful. Refer to rules 7 and 1 of the terms of service.


       You know what?  

    From UO.com
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    10. You may not modify any part of the Ultima Online service, Ultima Online code, or Ultima Online web site that Broadsword Online Games does not specifically authorize you to modify.

    18. You will not attempt to interfere with, hack into, or decipher any transmissions to or from the servers running the Ultima Online service.

    19. You will not exploit any bug in the Ultima Online product or the Ultima Online service. You will not intentionally use or share any bug found within Ultima Online, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage. You will not directly or indirectly communicate the existence of any such bug to any other user of the Ultima Online service. You will report any such exploit using the bug reporting methods as described by the Ultima Online web site at http://www.uo.com/contact.

    23. You will not create, use, play on or provide any server emulator or other service where Ultima Online may be played. You will not post, use or distribute any utilities, applications, emulators or other software tools related to Ultima Online that do not have the express written permission of Broadsword Online Games to be used with the Service. Information about approved software can be found here. 24. You will not do anything else that interferes with the ability of other Ultima Online users to enjoy playing the game in accordance with its rules, or that increases the expense or difficulty of Broadsword Online Games in maintaining the Ultima Online service for the enjoyment of all its users.
     
      It's beyond unacceptable that the forum rules are more strictly enforced than the in-game rules.
     it should be the other way around at minimum.

    Half the people posting in this thread wouldn't know where to start in pvp if these "Rules" were enforced.

    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • CookieCookie Posts: 814
    CovenantX said:
      

     you're saying you're correct when you debate (in favor of) stun punch... except we've had stun punch back when the pace of pvp was much slower than it is today.      in today's pvp 4s stun is long enough to kill almost anyone in a one vs one setting. and easily extended if you think you'd need more time.  particularly against non-casters without unobtainable items (teleport rings).   

    We've had times in the history of pvp where things that were not even as powerful as the suggestion in the OP caused the meta to shift to only one thing. causing pvp to get boring real f-ing fast.     that's exactly what would happen again if this stun hadn't been fixed, and you guys didn't waste much time before you started asking for it back.     It's very sad and amusing at the same time. 
     

    I debated in favour of improving wrestling mastery. And, it would help change the meta. They did suggest adding weaknesses, it wasnt the final solution.

    My thought, it may help, if VvV anti paralysis worked against it, as the only thing, that may even have a use then.

  • The_Higgs_1The_Higgs_1 Posts: 383
    Current meta right now  Mages 3-5X Better then any dexxer,  adding this so called change to pvp.  Mages 20X better then dexxers.  How is dexxers are OP again?  LOLOL
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