Armor Refinement Suggestion

SethSeth Posts: 1,353
edited March 26 in General Discussions
A proposal to read during your tea break:

Problem:
I needed to make an armor with exactly 3 Reinforced (+resist -DCI) refinements.
I used a Fortified which (un)luckily it gave me the bonus 4 refinements. This means an extra -1 DCI.
As that was the last Fortified that I have, so I used my remaining Hardening (3 left in my storage) refinement, but they all (un)luckily gave me only 2 refinements. RNG.

Solution:
Propose a UO store item like Anvil of Artifacts (weapon enhance resist) or Forged Metal of Artifacts (armor resist), which allow us to pick how many refinements to make and ensure its always a success.

I used both of the above tools from the store and I think one for refinements would certainly help us alot. I read in another forum, some players tried up to 18 invulnerability and still could not get all 5.

Recently I also tried several invulnerability for my Feudal Lord gloves and always return a 4. I have bought up what is left in the market and trying to get them by attacking ships but it is really slow.

===
Note:
- I found out that minimum DCI can go below -20.
- So if you have excess refinement, it can force the DCI below 20.

======
Background:
I have 6 armor with following refinement:

Head: 5
Neck: 5
Chest: 4
Leggings: 4
Arm: 4
Gloves: 4

Total: -26

So my target max DCI was 20 but it went down to 19. I took out the Arm and tried to make it into a 3, but now it ended up as a 2 refinement... which means my resist is lowered by 1 point, and I have 21 max DCI which my actual DCI is only taking up 20.

A bit complicated here but I believe some expert vet crafters in this forum can see...



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Comments

  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 595
    edited March 26
    “It is possible to re-refine any piece of armour, this will overwrite any existing refinement, this should be a simpler solution to your issue. You say you tried to make the arms 3..but they turned into 2, this to me suggests you used protection(edit: meant Hardening) refinement hoping for the 30% chance to roll 3 mods, what you should be doing is using hardening(edit: meant fortification) refinement, simple probability gives you 70% chance to get the end result you were after.

    On Atlantic, when vendor search was down I asked in general chat if anyone had the one i was after, a trammel player promptly came to my aid and refused payment, you may have similar experiences if you ask around

    @Mariah your wiki page states “a chance to apply.. on each refinement, but I noticed in game it tells us we have a 30% chance, I tried raising and lowering my respective crafting skill to see if this chance changed however both 0 and 120 crafting skill yielded the same 30% chance, perhaps you could update the wiki to state 30% chance instead of just “a chance” unless someone else knows a way to raise or lower this chance”
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  • SethSeth Posts: 1,353
    No, first I used Fortified, 3 + 1:
    I got 4

    Next I tried Hardening: 2 + 1:
    I got 2

    I just want a "3"...
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 595
    edited March 26
    “My error, you should be using fortification, first time you got 4, it happens, but odds are the second time you’ll achieve 3.

    I find defense refinements the most useful since you’re guaranteed just 1 and only 1 mod”
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  • SethSeth Posts: 1,353
    edited March 26
    Yoshi said:
    “My error, you should be using fortification, first time you got 4, it happens, but odds are the second time you’ll achieve 3.

    I find defense refinements the most useful since you’re guaranteed just 1 and only 1 mod”

    Yeah, I ran out of fortification on a small shard, and only way to ship from Atlantic(again). Can we just buy a tool from the store and get this done with... :#

    Still have to burn several invul to get the 5 for my glove...
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 595
    edited March 26
    “The whole 2 mods chance for 3, 3 mods chance for 4 is unnecessarily complex to me. Here is how it probably should work

    • Invulnerability – Applies four modifications with a chance to apply five 
    • Fortification - apply four modifications.
    • Hardening –  apply three modifications.
    • Protection - apply two modifications.
    • Defense – Applies one modification.

    Not sure why they didn’t do it this way”


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  • SethSeth Posts: 1,353
    Yeah, I agree with you.

    I thought a lower refinement means we can make the exact mod that we need, but we are forced to select the bonus and play the dice. Only the invulnerability should need the bonus chance for the max mod.
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  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 467
    More importantly, The devs need to add a way to remove refinements from pieces.

    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • dvviddvvid Posts: 451
    You can remove them by using the inverse I believe. Like if you apply and deflecting invulnerability refinement then apply a reinforced invulnerability refinement, it will bring it back to normal. I believe I’ve done this a few years ago. 
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 467
    dvvid said:
    You can remove them by using the inverse I believe. Like if you apply and deflecting invulnerability refinement then apply a reinforced invulnerability refinement, it will bring it back to normal. I believe I’ve done this a few years ago. 
     Yeah, you can do that but it's not the same thing though.  That also potentially leads to running into the problem the OP is describing (requiring multiple refines).   it's an unnecessary annoyance.


     
    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • SethSeth Posts: 1,353
    edited March 26
    CovenantX said:
    More importantly, The devs need to add a way to remove refinements from pieces.

    I think you mean totally removing them, then yes, they need to add this. Using Defense will still leave 1 refinement.






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  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 599
    Not to take this topic too far off course but I find a bigger problem for me is storage of these refinements. I have stopped saving below fortification now because I'd have like 2 protection 3 hardening of several types and my house storage is being hit for over 100+ lock downs. 

    @Kyronix - Maybe an idea for a future huntsman challenge reward (or BOD reward) would be a refinement container that works like the Soulstone container or repair bench and only uses 1 lockdown?
  • SethSeth Posts: 1,353
    keven2002 said:
    Not to take this topic too far off course but I find a bigger problem for me is storage of these refinements. I have stopped saving below fortification now because I'd have like 2 protection 3 hardening of several types and my house storage is being hit for over 100+ lock downs. 

    @ Kyronix - Maybe an idea for a future huntsman challenge reward (or BOD reward) would be a refinement container that works like the Soulstone container or repair bench and only uses 1 lockdown?

    Aye, I don't mind anything that save space and item count. These stuff sell for good money, consider using Amalgamator to combine into invulnerability and sell them if its getting too much. It can accumulate fast when doing alot of ship hunting. The funny thing is I seem to see more refinements that I do not use often (e.g. hide, gargoyle, studded samurai), while dragon, ringmail seems to have lower occurrence.

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  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 1,179
    this might sound crazy but instead of all this random stuff why not just let us craft what we want i mean exactly what we want if i need gloves of goat handling sure tell me i need 17 goat hearts and a bowl of pudding but make it possible no other skill set is subject to such randomness why do we just giggle manically and accept it with crafting....
  • SethSeth Posts: 1,353
    edited March 31
    I am happy if they can do as Yoshi suggested for the lower refinement except invulnerability.

    To get the max 25 refinement, we just need to hit one armor with 5s.

    But after that, all remaining 5 armors which just need a 4 refinement, have a chance to mess up the template because of the randomness. Instead of getting a 45-25 = 20 min DCI, I got 19 (45-26) for one extra unwanted refinement.

    This don't make sense.
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  • SethSeth Posts: 1,353
    edited March 31
    Posting for players who are not so familiar with refinement, please price them correctly...

    People who buy are mostly familiar with refinement, so they won't pay 2million gold for "Defense".

    Defense is the lowest level and 240 Defense makes one Invulnerability. At this rate, Invulnerability will cost (240x2) 480 million GP. That is even more expensive than a Cameo today.

    This is a waste of VS bandwidth.

    Add: I know there are some intentional over pricing of item, but this one look serious (enough to make into a scoured plating for selling).

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  • GwenGwen Posts: 163
    @Seth ; you will not beleive this, but one week ago I sold several of defense  2M per. together with others higher also 2M per. That person was asking in Gen Chat and took all I had of kinds he wanted. 
    I know it was overpriced, but buyer named his price. Why should I refuse? 

    Some people dont need invulnerability. Anyway there are free refinements in pirate cargo holds. Anybody can go and get it. After some negotiation with orc crew. 
  • SethSeth Posts: 1,353
    Gwen said:
    @ Seth  you will not beleive this, but one week ago I sold several of defense  2M per. together with others higher also 2M per. That person was asking in Gen Chat and took all I had of kinds he wanted. 
    I know it was overpriced, but buyer named his price. Why should I refuse? 

    Some people dont need invulnerability. Anyway there are free refinements in pirate cargo holds. Anybody can go and get it. After some negotiation with orc crew. 

    Haha, I am sure there are players with really deep pockets... thanks for the tip.
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  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,649
    I just bought Invulnerable Studded and Plate for 4.2M and 5M on Atl.... 
  • SethSeth Posts: 1,353
    Pawain said:
    I just bought Invulnerable Studded and Plate for 4.2M and 5M on Atl.... 

    I think the prices are ok. The item availability can fluctuate from time to time.

    There was once when I could barely find any at Atlantic, esp. maybe when other players happen to be doing the same and they buy all up.
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