Devs, can you PLEASE slow down Paragons ? Their speed ONLY affects Tamers...

@Kyronix , @Bleak

Sampires and Warriors are mounted so, they are not that much affected, or as much affected as Tamers, to the speed of Paragons. So can Bards and most other Templates.

Tamers, instead, when having a 5 slot pet, have to stay on foot, certainly during the fight, and always around the dungeon if their pet is not rideable.

Sure, Gargoyle tamers can fly but most players prefer non Gargoyle tamers because they enjoy riding their pet... furthermore, one would need to buy a Race change token to change race to a Gargoyle....

Furthermore, only elves can tame a Cu-Sidhe, one of the most popular pet....

Bottom line is, that even though one "could" have a flying Gargoyle tamer, most Tamers are, like it or not, either humans or elves.

There is simply no way that a tamer on foot with a 5 slot pet can outrun a Paragon. 

And, as we know, not all pets are rideable and now that pets are picked like weapons, that is, the right pet for the right hunt, often the right pet one might have in the stables for that hunt involving ultra fast Paragons, could be a non rideable pet.

Since this exceptional Paragons' speed pretty much affects only Tamers who are forced to be on foot by their 5 slot pet, it looks to me pretty much yet an " nth " nerf against Tamer as compared to other Templates.....

So, PLEASE, can you re-balance things a bit and slow down Paragons so that Tamers on foot can at least be able to make some distance between themselves and the Paragon before they get killed ?

And since you are at it, PLEASE, make their retargeting tone down quite a bit, I have Paragons retarget me like 15 times before my pet was able to kill them !! I kept casting invisibility and then heal, invidibility and then heal and on and on and the Paragon would still retarget me !! This is too much retargeting, to my opinion........ once or twice might be acceptable, but on and on and on ? Please........

Thanks.

Comments

  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,654
    edited January 9
    Learn to play your tamer.  I can show you how invis works just fine. I'll kill any paragon for you on LS with my tamer.

    We can watch the melee toons run away while I kill stuff. 

    Cast invis walk 3 tiles away. Invis . May have to do it twice.

    Also, all my tamers are human and one has all color Cus but blaze.  Which may be your problem. This is Ice. The mobs have high cold resist. Your pet is doing half damage.
  • ValisValis Posts: 44
    Shut up and just play the damn game. Things are fine, adapt or avoid it.
  • King_GregKing_Greg Posts: 218
    Play a gargoyle or use a 4 slot pet. 
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,373
    Pawain said:
    Learn to play your tamer.  I can show you how invis works just fine. I'll kill any paragon for you on LS with my tamer.

    We can watch the melee toons run away while I kill stuff. 

    Cast invis walk 3 tiles away. Invis . May have to do it twice.

    Also, all my tamers are human and one has all color Cus but blaze.  Which may be your problem. This is Ice. The mobs have high cold resist. Your pet is doing half damage.
    That is not the point !

    The point is that Paragons' speed only or mostly affects just footed templates.... namely Tamers who have 5 slot pets.... sometimes not even rideable.

    Why should ONLY THEM, or mostly just them be affected by Paragons' speed if I may ask ?

    I do not see this, personally, as fair balance.

    That is why their speed should be slowed down, IMHO, to give footed characters not for their choice but due to their pets being 5 slots and/or not rideable, at least some chances as compared to other templates who have the luxury to be able to play mounted.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,654
    edited January 9
    Or you can use my method.  I stuck mace on my Gargoyle and took off magery.  He cant invis.  Do not kill anything you cant kill the paragon of.  If someone else makes a paragon, take the paragon to the hall where the WW spawns.  Some days I had all 4 orges the WW and the Ice fiend in that hall, paragon or not.  The drops are a lot faster this way.

    If you see others killing stuff they can't kill the paragons of, tell them to stop doing it.

    Just kill the stuff you can kill.  I got over 120 drops this week to get all the gargoyle suits for deco.
    Did not fight anything above a snow ele paragon.

    @popps ; learn to play UO.
  • vortexvortex Posts: 75
    Put on enough ninjitsu and go in animal form like llama.... My other tamers on foot have no problem like @Pawain said just invis and walk away but you don't listen to advise so might as well tell that to my dog beside me.
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,373
    edited January 9
    vortex said:
    Put on enough ninjitsu and go in animal form like llama.... My other tamers on foot have no problem like @ Pawain said just invis and walk away but you don't listen to advise so might as well tell that to my dog beside me.
    Again, that is not the point !!

    Of course that one tries to adapt and find work arounds... otherwise, one would not be able to play the Event....

    My point is, that Paragons' current fast speed only affects Tamers who have to be on foot !!

    And this, to my opinion, should not be, considering all of the many, very many nerfs which tamers already had to go through.

    - Pets do half damage in PvM (the latest Events Paragons being an example of this);

    - MoBs most always retargeting  making it difficult for the Tamer to stay there and heal the pet ;

    - MoBs doing AoE damage making it almost impossible to use Veterinary to heal a pet, saved a few, rare exceptions ;

    - Way slow casting spells make it harder for a Tamer to keep up helping one's own pet, often, with how hard some MoBs hit pets, by the time a heal is cast (tamer with protection on), the pet has already taken heavy damage.... not to mention the poisoning of pets and the Tamers having to recast from heals to cures all the time which, when having protection on, means a very very long time before the pet actually gets healed up...

    - Pets always changing target even if the Tamer has 120 Animal Lore and 120 Animal Taming making it extremely annoying to always say All Kill and target the one Mob that one wants killed, it often happens to me that I command All Kill to the nearest MoB and then, after attacking it, the pet immediately retargets onto a MoB that is farther away leaving the Tamer exposed to being attacked by that nearer MoB....

    - The pet Ball of summoning having lots of places where it does not work. The Ball is important because many times, it could be used to save a pet from dyeing and thus loosing skill points which then have to be regained... yet, yelling All Follow me often simply does nothing when the pet is being aggroed by several MoBs.... if the Tamer was to be able to run away in a safer place and use the Ball of Summoning, instead, this would save the pet a needless death and thus avoid it to loose skil points upon dyeing...

    - Tamers being revealed all the time and thus having a hard time being able to stay by their pet to help it (this especially with the new Paragons, has it has been already pointed out);

    - Pets' pathfinding being very lacking, oddily enough, Paragons can very well go around ANYTHING and get to the player being targeted but a pet cannot use the same pathfinding that Paragons use and gets stuck anywhere and so easily ?

    These are only some of the most annoying nerfs hurting much Taming, one could go on and on and on with stuff that makes playing a Tamer way less enjoyable....

    Honestly, I do not understand why Tamers as a Template is so little loved by the Developers......
  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,654
    edited January 10
    Why is your pet dying from Poison in Ice?  

    Why are you running?

    Why do you care if you are revealed?

    Just went to test to see if something has changed since yesterday.  Nope killed it just fine.

    Was also watching football so wasn't really paying attention that much.



    temp.bmp 144.7K
  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 374
    edited January 10
    Popps REALLY???

    ADAPT,  buy a race change token and change to elf, then get a cu, you can be modernised by next weekend.

    Once again, STOP trying to change the game to suit YOU. YOU must adapt to suit the game.

    YOU are the only person who keeps moaning about this,  you could have retrained by now

    Paragons are fast for a reason, and WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU IN THE NEW DUNGEONS ON FOOT.

    I mean lol, if you cant work out how to get around the dungeon then don't take a triton in. You have more than 1 pet don't you???

    So, not that you actually listen to any advice but I will spell it out for you

    1. buy race change token,  or do the quest, it takes minutes
    2. tame a nice Cu
    3. bond, or buy a bonding potion
    4. get level 3 mastery
    5. train it

    JOB DONE, go hunting paragons and join the modern UO

    I have managed to trian 5 new tamers in the last 6 months and sent them to other shards, if I can do it this many times you can do it once
  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 374
    you just seem to be doing everything completely the opposite way to everyone else.

    A tamer on foot in the new dungeons with a triton is hardcore, and it can go so wrong very quickly

    just do as I suggested above and you will be fine in this dungeon and all others when they are live

    you must have mega high blood pressure, its not good for you, stop being difficult and listen to what other players are telling you. 

    You do NOT need to add anymore, tasks advice and enjoy the game
  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,654
    I have enjoyed my Triton in Ice.  But, I know how to invis and walk a back 3 steps.  Can also walk right up to the pet and vet it.  Tritons are very beefy there if you do not run or do stupid things.
  • MargeMarge Posts: 501
    #1 It is your choice to be a human tamer.
    #2 It is your choice to bring a non ridable 5 slot pet.

    It is not the developers problem that you choose the wrong pet - a 5 slot Ridable Fire Beetle or 5 slot Fire Steed would be great in the ICE dungeon.

    P.S. My tamer is a garg for the very reason to have mounted speed even if I have a non ridable 5 slot pet. It is my choice. See the key word here : CHOICE.
  • SethSeth Posts: 1,356
    edited January 10
    Earlier, I used tamer mage with Cu Sidhe at Atlantic to get two Morphius epaulette and it was fine. 

    Make macro:
    Dismount
    Say Kill
    Target Nearest Hostile
    Cast spell
    Invis self (Just to break lock)

    Use protection spell.

    If there are too many Paragons then leave. Even warriors do not stand a chance.

    @popps need to see and learn how others do it in the game.

    We love bugs....
  • JboJbo Posts: 9

    As i told you on stratics forum(a long time ago, last decade actually... 24th of december 2020) the paragons are quite easily slayed with a tamer, but you have to practice/train and might even change your template, you know to incorporate the knowledge you gained from the training....


    I dont run around in ice, cause 99% of the time im in wraith form... and never run it draws aggro from the paragons as it did in deceit... thats why the paragons follow the panic-pires, sorry sampires, around.


    Have you tried to use the virtues like honor(self)/spirituallity/humility??

  • poppspopps Posts: 2,373
    Popps REALLY???

    ADAPT,  buy a race change token and change to elf, then get a cu, you can be modernised by next weekend.

    Once again, STOP trying to change the game to suit YOU. YOU must adapt to suit the game.

    YOU are the only person who keeps moaning about this,  you could have retrained by now

    Paragons are fast for a reason, and WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU IN THE NEW DUNGEONS ON FOOT.

    I mean lol, if you cant work out how to get around the dungeon then don't take a triton in. You have more than 1 pet don't you???

    So, not that you actually listen to any advice but I will spell it out for you

    1. buy race change token,  or do the quest, it takes minutes
    2. tame a nice Cu
    3. bond, or buy a bonding potion
    4. get level 3 mastery
    5. train it

    JOB DONE, go hunting paragons and join the modern UO

    I have managed to trian 5 new tamers in the last 6 months and sent them to other shards, if I can do it this many times you can do it once
    Paragons are fast for a reason, and WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU IN THE NEW DUNGEONS ON FOOT.
    What reason would it be, if I may ask ?

    Because, they ONLY (or mostly by  wide margin) harass Tamers, no other Template that is mounted.

    Why would a Tamer be on foot you ask ?

    Perhaps, because they are using a stronger 5 slots pet so as to be able, not only to kill Paragons better, also to kill regular spawn faster and thus get more drops in the same playing time ?

    Also, there is plenty pets that are NOT rideable but, as we all know, a riden pet cannot fight so, in order to fight the spawn, "even if" the Tamer is using a rideable pet, they STILL have to get on foot to permit their pet to fight the spawn....

    Paragons too fast ONLY (or mostly by a wiiiiide margin) affect Tamers and this, sounds just not right, to my opinion.

    Warriors who are Mounted, Bards who are Mounted, Mages or any other Template who can be mounted, are not much affected by Paragons' fast speed.

    Only Tamers who are footed are.

    And this, let me say it again, does not sound right.

    Why do the Developers not love Tamers ?
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,373
    Pawain said:
    I have enjoyed my Triton in Ice.  But, I know how to invis and walk a back 3 steps.  Can also walk right up to the pet and vet it.  Tritons are very beefy there if you do not run or do stupid things.
    Well, there is a work around to everything, isn't it ?

    Nonetheless, it seems to me very, very unfair that the developers felt the need to yet put in something else, Paragons' ultra fast speed, which only (or mostly by a very wide margin) affects Tamers who, because of their pet, need to use a 5 slot for a tougher spawn etc. are forced to be on foot.

    It is, to my viewing, yet the " nth " Tamers nerf as it does not affect no other Template as it does tamers.

    And who does retargeting mostly affect ? Tamers again.

    And who does revealing also mostly affect ? Again Tamers.

    And who does AoEs mostly affect ? Again Tamers who cannot stay by their pet to Vet it...

    I mean, really, WHY DO THE DEVELOPERS NOT LIKE TAMERS SO MUCH ???

    Especially, considered that it is a rather popular Template among players....


  • poppspopps Posts: 2,373
    Marge said:
    #1 It is your choice to be a human tamer.
    #2 It is your choice to bring a non ridable 5 slot pet.

    It is not the developers problem that you choose the wrong pet - a 5 slot Ridable Fire Beetle or 5 slot Fire Steed would be great in the ICE dungeon.

    P.S. My tamer is a garg for the very reason to have mounted speed even if I have a non ridable 5 slot pet. It is my choice. See the key word here : CHOICE.
    As I said, there can be a work around to a lot of issues if not to most of them.

    That is not the point.

    The point is, that I find it unreasonable that such a feature, Paragons' ultra fast speed, was put in to affect pretty much only Tamers who are forced to be footed by their 5 slots pet.

    And rideable or not rideable makes no difference, a ridden pet cannot fight so, if the Tamer wants to kill anything, they HAVE TO get on foot and tell your pet to fight...

    This does not affect any other Template who can stay mounted and fight mounted.

    Why is it that quite a good deal of changes put in, mostly affect, in a bad way, mind you, only Tamers ?
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,373
    Jbo said:

    As i told you on stratics forum(a long time ago, last decade actually... 24th of december 2020) the paragons are quite easily slayed with a tamer, but you have to practice/train and might even change your template, you know to incorporate the knowledge you gained from the training....


    I dont run around in ice, cause 99% of the time im in wraith form... and never run it draws aggro from the paragons as it did in deceit... thats why the paragons follow the panic-pires, sorry sampires, around.


    Have you tried to use the virtues like honor(self)/spirituallity/humility??

    The problem with the Virtues, is that they really are a "last resort" kind of thing, not to be used on a regular basis as "farming" for drops during an Event might need.

    The time it takes to work a Virtue back up is way too long to be wanting to do it on a regular basis.

    For that "once in a blue moon" thing sure, they are OK, but to be used regularly ? I do not see them as much viable, unfortunately.


  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 374
    popps said:
    Popps REALLY???

    ADAPT,  buy a race change token and change to elf, then get a cu, you can be modernised by next weekend.

    Once again, STOP trying to change the game to suit YOU. YOU must adapt to suit the game.

    YOU are the only person who keeps moaning about this,  you could have retrained by now

    Paragons are fast for a reason, and WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU IN THE NEW DUNGEONS ON FOOT.

    I mean lol, if you cant work out how to get around the dungeon then don't take a triton in. You have more than 1 pet don't you???

    So, not that you actually listen to any advice but I will spell it out for you

    1. buy race change token,  or do the quest, it takes minutes
    2. tame a nice Cu
    3. bond, or buy a bonding potion
    4. get level 3 mastery
    5. train it

    JOB DONE, go hunting paragons and join the modern UO

    I have managed to trian 5 new tamers in the last 6 months and sent them to other shards, if I can do it this many times you can do it once
    Paragons are fast for a reason, and WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU IN THE NEW DUNGEONS ON FOOT.
    What reason would it be, if I may ask ?

    Because, they ONLY (or mostly by  wide margin) harass Tamers, no other Template that is mounted.

    Why would a Tamer be on foot you ask ?

    Perhaps, because they are using a stronger 5 slots pet so as to be able, not only to kill Paragons better, also to kill regular spawn faster and thus get more drops in the same playing time ?

    Also, there is plenty pets that are NOT rideable but, as we all know, a riden pet cannot fight so, in order to fight the spawn, "even if" the Tamer is using a rideable pet, they STILL have to get on foot to permit their pet to fight the spawn....

    Paragons too fast ONLY (or mostly by a wiiiiide margin) affect Tamers and this, sounds just not right, to my opinion.

    Warriors who are Mounted, Bards who are Mounted, Mages or any other Template who can be mounted, are not much affected by Paragons' fast speed.

    Only Tamers who are footed are.

    And this, let me say it again, does not sound right.

    Why do the Developers not love Tamers ?
    Once again you are not listening 

    IF YOU CANNOT HANDLE IT DO NOT TAKE A TRITON INTO PARAGON DUNGEON.  USE A CU

    Popps, please stop arguing for the sake of it

    Think of it in warrior terms,  you do not take an arachnid slayer to demon temple do you, well you prob would, and then argue about it, and expect the Dev's to change everything for you, but I digress, but others would not. 
    SO,
    Use another pet from your arsenal

    You do have an elf tamer and a Cu don't you? a legendary tamer (real skill) can hold loads of pets, so why don't you have a whole selection of them?

    It seems once again, you have limited chars, wont train more and want the game to mould around you?

    WHY CAN'T YOU SEE THIS????????????????????????????????????
  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 374

    seeing as you will just ignore MORE advice, please just explain what is so hard about WALKING in the dungeon and then invising yourself when you see a para is near,  you must be running around like an idiot trying to compete with Samps and dragging everything to you

    am I right?

    I bet you shout at other players in the dungeon because they are killing YOUR spawn?

    What shard you on LS?

    I need to see this for myself
  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 374
    if you must insist on playing a 1999 char, and will NOT listen to advice and either train another tamer or modernise yours, here is a "workaround"

    Train peace and peace the bloody para if you are not capable of hiding.  

    oh wait, not thats not right, you would have to do something.

    Nerf the paras just for you.
    Here is a final idea before I just ignore your stupidity forever.

    DON'T GO THE THE NEW DUNGEONS.  There is the key. NEW.   Its all new and you are stuck in a time warp.  There is the problem,  its YOU, not the game


    @Mariah. PLEASE add an ignore feature to this bloody forum. I cant help but answer this moron, and I just want him to be gone.

  • MargeMarge Posts: 501
    Popps you seem to also forgot about the poor mystics that are on foot when they cast the 5 slot Rcs.

    Also, what you are calling work arounds are not - it is how you play the game!
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,373
    IF YOU CANNOT HANDLE IT DO NOT TAKE A TRITON INTO PARAGON DUNGEON.  USE A CU

    I beg your pardon, but doesn't a CU-Sidhe need to be dismounted in order for it to fight whatever spawn, thus leaving the tamer on foot ?

    Mounted or not mounted pet, it makes no difference, if the Tamer wants to fight, and their pet is a 5 slot one, they have to be footed... and this puts them at a gross disadvantage as no other template is (because they can do their fighting mounted), against the ultra fast Paragons...

    Work arounds are not the point here, the point is that this is yet another "feature" that only or mostly affects Tamers.

    Why are tamers so much disliked by the Developers even though they are quite a popular Template among players ?
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,373

    seeing as you will just ignore MORE advice, please just explain what is so hard about WALKING in the dungeon and then invising yourself when you see a para is near,  
    I have news, Paragons reveal at like 10-12 tiles distance and this, across walls and what not.

    Also, they seem to have quite a hell of a good pathfinding which, by the way, tamed pets seem not to share as while Paragons can always run around any corner and what not, pets instead get stuck pretty often....
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,373
    edited January 10
    Marge said:
    Popps you seem to also forgot about the poor mystics that are on foot when they cast the 5 slot Rcs.

    Also, what you are calling work arounds are not - it is how you play the game!
    Here you got a point.

    Mystics do share with Tamers this pain.

    And, mind you, a Rising Colossus can do nowhere near any damage which a Warrior with double slayer or some pet can.... YET, Mystics are greatly affected by having to be on foot because their RCs are 5 slotters, by this damn Paragons and their ultra fast speed.

    One reason more for the Developers to slow down this damn ultra fast speed of Paragons !!
  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 374
    edited January 10
    DO YOU HAVE AN ELF TAMER AND CU ?

    STOP avoiding the questions we ask you.

    Obviously you do not, if you DID you would be able to deal with the dungeon quite comfortably, like WE all do.


  • MariahMariah Posts: 1,729Moderator
    This thread is going nowhere but downhill. Time to end it. Perhaps someone could meet up with popps in game and show him how to properly deal with paragons?
This discussion has been closed.