Devs, to give thieves some love, why don't you make the ICE drops spawn in Dungeon Chests ?

Seriously, why don't you make the Drops "of Ice" be able to spawn in Dungeon Chests so that thieves can also have their way with the new content and Rewards ?

The drop rate could be higher as that from kills as to find a chest and open it up it takes longer then killing anything, and quite longer...

Just a thought.....
«1

Comments

  • TimStTimSt Posts: 1,291
    I think this would be nice.  I had more fun in Khaldun when I was using my thief.  Fighting stuff gets to be a grind after a while.
  • you will get revealed by the spawn all the time, so its not viable,  just yet another moaning post.  Don't you EVER get tired?   you did the same for deceit and you were ignored then as well
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,620
    edited December 2020
    you will get revealed by the spawn all the time, so its not viable,  just yet another moaning post.  Don't you EVER get tired?   you did the same for deceit and you were ignored then as well
    This is because the Paragons BROKE existing game mechanics that were meant to make it possible for players to hide and stealth, if they invested skills, race and Masteries into that.

    It is ridicolous, to my opinion, that even an ELF, with 100 Hiding, 120 Stealthing and 120 Ninjitsu and running a Ninjitsu Shadow Mastery would still get revealed by Paragons no matter what.

    This is so wrong !!

    The ability of Paragons to reveal should not be a "flat out" one as it is, but it should work in a way that it respected what were existing mechanics and whereas, if a player invested in being an ELF, and into skills and Masteries all releated to hiding and stealthing, they should be able to KEEP remaining hidden and stealthing and not get revealed so ridicolously easy.

    It looks like that, who knows why, the changes that we see all end up prompting players to get to play a Sampire, Dexer of Fighter and no other Template.

    I cannot understand why.

    It would be nice to understand why all these changes, one way or the other, all end up making Sampires, Dexers and Fighters the MOST playable template in Ultima Online.

    @Kyronix , @Bleak , could you please kindly explain to us the rationale of this ?

    Do we need to conclude that the one and only Template worth playing in Ultima Online is a Sampire, Dexer or Fighter ?
  • vortexvortex Posts: 85
    edited December 2020
    Only you need to conclude the only template worth playing is a sampire or dexer or fighter I use all my toons .. But I don't expect to kill things with my cook or thief
  • PawainPawain Posts: 5,119
     :D 
  • SethSeth Posts: 1,614
    edited December 2020
    Paragons did not break the game mechanics.

    It was introduced to stop unattended macroing esp. some players cast summons and then hide.
    It is also used against warriors too - some warriors can also fight unattended if not for paragons. Some players used to leave their pet in rooms while the character hide, and they go unattended too.

    Dev has done a good job on this, save their time to ban players. Good move.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it
  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 957Dev
    edited December 2020
    “an ELF, with 100 Hiding, 120 Stealthing and 120 Ninjitsu and running a Ninjitsu Shadow Mastery would still get revealed by Paragons no matter what.”

    Superman is always gonna have his kryptonite :)

    That being said, obviously the schedule is pretty tight, but the top of my list for future enhancements to Dynamic ToTs is adding support stealing.  

    Thanks for the feedback!

  • Kyronix said:
    “an ELF, with 100 Hiding, 120 Stealthing and 120 Ninjitsu and running a Ninjitsu Shadow Mastery would still get revealed by Paragons no matter what.”

    Superman is always gonna have his kryptonite :)

    That being said, obviously the schedule is pretty tight, but the top of my list for future enhancements to Dynamic ToTs is adding support stealing.  

    Thanks for the feedback!

    These dynamic events are fantastic. Thank you. 
  • AragornAragorn Posts: 284
    Kyronix said:
    “an ELF, with 100 Hiding, 120 Stealthing and 120 Ninjitsu and running a Ninjitsu Shadow Mastery would still get revealed by Paragons no matter what.”

    Superman is always gonna have his kryptonite :)

    That being said, obviously the schedule is pretty tight, but the top of my list for future enhancements to Dynamic ToTs is adding support stealing.  

    Thanks for the feedback!

    popps's persistence finally paid off! Now you said stealing but not thief in general or lockpicking, so what you're adding is the ability to steal drops from mobs? 
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,620
    edited December 2020
    Kyronix said:
    “an ELF, with 100 Hiding, 120 Stealthing and 120 Ninjitsu and running a Ninjitsu Shadow Mastery would still get revealed by Paragons no matter what.”

    Superman is always gonna have his kryptonite :)

    That being said, obviously the schedule is pretty tight, but the top of my list for future enhancements to Dynamic ToTs is adding support stealing.  

    Thanks for the feedback!

    @Kyronix

    Well, thanks for the heads up....

    If you are planning to add support to Rogues in Dynamic ToT (picking Locks, Removing Traps, and looting Dungeon Chests, I would not personally call it stealing, more Treasure Hunting or a Rogue thing.... but I can see how to others, taking from a Dungeon chest which is not theirs could be very well seen as stealing....) which is truly a great thing, but PLEASE, do consider then some way to find mechanics to support Thieves/Rogues need to stay hidden and be able to stealth since, given the heavy load of skills that they need to carry for their Profession, they simply cannot be fighters and fight spawn, especially the Paragons.... their only defense is to STAY hidden and do their Chests' picking, traps removing and looting while staying in the hide....

    Check it out....

    - 120 Stealing
    - 100 Snooping
    - 100 Lockpicking
    - 100 Detect Hidden
    - 100 Remove Trap
    - 100 Hiding
    - 120 Stealthing

    That's already 740 skil points there.... no room whatsoever to have any fighting abilities for a seriously invested Thief/Rogue. Hell, there is not even any room for Magery for a recall !!

    If it needs be, make it necessary to have them all be REAL skill points by finally introducing Thieves' Masteries (can this be a suggestion ? https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/45491/#Comment_45491 ) so that it won't be possible to create hybrid Templates using skill items and, if necessary, make it also that such a Mastery to help keep a Thief/Rogue STAY hidden, will have to have ALL those skills in real points on their Templaye (yes, 720 skill points all REAL in Stealing, Snooping, Lockpicking, Detect Hidden, Remove Trap, Hiding and Stealthing) but please, permit to Thieves/Rogue to remain hidden and stealthing while doing their profession or, at the very least, if not from stealing, at least allow the staying hidden from picking Dungeon Chests, Removing their Traps and looting the chests with all related skills being maxed out and leaving the getting revealed, sometimes (not a 100% guaranteed reveal... the thief would still be totally defenseless if caught into fighting....) when stealing from someone is involved...

    But please, do not force fighing on a Template which has hardly any chance to self defend, given how heavily the Template needs many Rogue related skills in order to fully function for that profession.... a thief's or Rogue's best defense is staying in the Shadow, unseen, and not in the plain out sun light....

    Thanks.

  • ValisValis Posts: 44
    Say it with me class.

    ___________________________________
    Not. Every. Template. Is. For. Every. Event.
    ___________________________________

    Stop whining about every event that happens and just play the damn game like literally every other player. I have a thief and you don't hear me complaining I can't use the character here.
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,620
    Valis said:
    Say it with me class.

    ___________________________________
    Not. Every. Template. Is. For. Every. Event.
    ___________________________________

    Stop whining about every event that happens and just play the damn game like literally every other player. I have a thief and you don't hear me complaining I can't use the character here.
    Well, apparently....
    _______________________________________
    Every. Event. Is. For. Sampires/Dexers/Fighters.
    _______________________________________

    They seem to always be the ones that shine, no matter what the Event might be. Just check Dungeon Ice, it is as it was with Dungeon Deceit, Fighters all over the place.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 5,119
    @popps why don't you check Dungeon Ice on LS.  You will find all templates having fun killing stuff.

    And if your tamer is not a fighter,  that is where your problem is.  We had every super slayer book drop during the two invasions.
  • Then. Build. A. Effing. Sampire. Or...stfu
  • ValisValis Posts: 44
    popps said:

    Well, apparently....
    _______________________________________
    Every. Event. Is. For. Sampires/Dexers/Fighters.
    _______________________________________

    They seem to always be the ones that shine, no matter what the Event might be. Just check Dungeon Ice, it is as it was with Dungeon Deceit, Fighters all over the place.



    I was waiting for your reply and as I suspected it would be, its simply moronic.

    Not every event is for just that one style of gameplay. Look at the artisan festival, thats for crafters. Khaldun had things for thieves and such. So I am going to offer you some advice...

    Get off the forums. Get on your tamer (which I see every single day in general chat just waiting for people to tell you when Krampus is up, etc) and GO. DO. THE EVENT.

    Whine less. Play more. It's the same with you on every event.

    (and this time don't yell at people in general chat for attacking monsters)
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,620
    Valis said:
    popps said:

    Well, apparently....
    _______________________________________
    Every. Event. Is. For. Sampires/Dexers/Fighters.
    _______________________________________

    They seem to always be the ones that shine, no matter what the Event might be. Just check Dungeon Ice, it is as it was with Dungeon Deceit, Fighters all over the place.



    I was waiting for your reply and as I suspected it would be, its simply moronic.

    Not every event is for just that one style of gameplay. Look at the artisan festival, thats for crafters. Khaldun had things for thieves and such. So I am going to offer you some advice...

    Get off the forums. Get on your tamer (which I see every single day in general chat just waiting for people to tell you when Krampus is up, etc) and GO. DO. THE EVENT.

    Whine less. Play more. It's the same with you on every event.

    (and this time don't yell at people in general chat for attacking monsters)
    You need not to worry, I am about half way towards the Ice Spellbook after 2 days it started and so far got about 40 Ilshenar Statues...

    I do not understand why people think that when I post something I necessarily post it about myself or something that I might need.

    For example, I DID say that now, with all the concurrant content going on, I fear much that it will be difficult for lack of interested players crowding the Ice Dugeons alleys, that the Forest of the Dark The Guide Boss at the Ilshenar spawn might get killed and so that spawn hang up....

    Which it means, no more killing the spawn to get Statues.

    Since I happen to be trying to make a set, of course this concerns me, but I guess it might also concern other fellow players wanting those Statues.... and that is why I asked to the Developers to please make a change for these 10 more days were, if The Guide Boss is not killed withing 1 hour that it has spawned, the Spawn would nonetheless reset itself automatically thus giving spawn to players to kill to get their Statues.

    If I need something for my specific gameplay I do not have a problem to say that and I do, when I feel it as necessary. Often though, I post about the game as a whole because I think that either something I see is wrong or, that a change might be beneficial to the game as a whole.


  • PawainPawain Posts: 5,119
    edited December 2020
    @popps let others complain for themselves.  Then we would actually see if anyone feels the same as you do.

    You are the only one that is complaining about this stuff.  Everyone else is using their favorite template and having fun.  None of your proposed changes would benefit the game.

    That's the way I see it.
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,620
    edited December 2020
    Pawain said:
    @ popps let others complain for themselves.  Then we would actually see if anyone feels the same as you do.

    You are the only one that is complaining about this stuff.  Everyone else is using their favorite template and having fun.  None of your proposed changes would benefit the game.

    That's the way I see it.
    Are they REALLY using their "favorite" Template or are they perhaps, "just" perhaps, using the one template that brings them the most drops which happens to be, once again, a Sampire or a variation of ?

    My argument is in favour of mechanics which would actually bring as many as possible templates on an equal footing.... THEN, truly, players could use the Template that they most enjoy to play and not the one that "works the best" for that given Event....

    One thing is being efficient, an entire other is enjoying playing a given Template.

    I do not see why players who enjoy playing a Sampire or variations of should also benefit with getting the highest efficiency while other players who enjoy playing other Templates, Tamers, Bards, Rogues, Spellcasters and so forth, should instead have to make a choice on whether to play the Template which they really enjoy playing OR the Template that "works the best" and is most efficient in getting drops.

    That is totally unfair and detrimental towards the enjoyment of the game for those players, me thinks.

    I would like to see players be really able to play the Template that they actualy do enjoy playing AND be also efficient in getting their drops when using that Template,

    And not have to play other Templates even though they do not enjoy playing them as well only because they "work better"....
  • PawainPawain Posts: 5,119
    popps said:
    Pawain said:
    @ popps let others complain for themselves.  Then we would actually see if anyone feels the same as you do.

    You are the only one that is complaining about this stuff.  Everyone else is using their favorite template and having fun.  None of your proposed changes would benefit the game.

    That's the way I see it.
    Are they REALLY using their "favorite" Template or are they perhaps, "just" perhaps, using the one template that brings them the most drops which happens to be, once again, a Sampire or a variation of ?

    My argument is in favour of mechanics which would actually bring as many as possible templates on an equal footing.... THEN, truly, players could use the Template that they most enjoy to play and not the one that "works the best" for that given Event....

    One thing is being efficient, an entire other is enjoying playing a given Template.

    I do not see why players who enjoy playing a Sampire or variations of should also benefit with getting the highest efficiency while other players who enjoy playing other Templates, Tamers, Bards, Rogues, Spellcasters and so forth, should instead have to make a choice on whether to play the Template which they really enjoy playing OR the Template that "works the best" and is most efficient in getting drops.

    That is totally unfair and detrimental towards the enjoyment of the game for those players, me thinks.

    I would like to see players be really able to play the Template that they actualy do enjoy playing AND be also efficient in getting their drops when using that Template,

    And not have to play other Templates even though they do not enjoy playing them as well only because they "work better"....
    Obviously you do not read replies to you.  I already told you that players on LS are using tamer, archers, mages and whatever else they want to play.  You just do not look around or have any idea about the topics you make.
  • He is a troll that the mods have no control over. 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 5,119
    To tie threads together:

    The devs gave an unknown thief some love and allowed them to steal our holiday presents. :(
  • vortexvortex Posts: 85
    do you read the replies?I see all kinds of templates except cools and crafters out there... Why you play a game that puzzles and frustrates you so much?
  • RockStaRRockStaR Posts: 168
    edited December 2020
    Pawain said:
    To tie threads together:

    The devs gave an unknown thief some love and allowed them to steal our holiday presents. :(
      I believe it was @Bilbo that said @popps was Mervyn undercover. It seems to me that this is not Mervyn undercover. Mervyn knows how to play sampires/dexers/fighters. And he even has the knowledge to test if something is working as it is intended to. Instead of asking about a quest, he would test it himself first.
  • SethSeth Posts: 1,614
    This is so unfair... my million dollar sampire is destroyed by Paragons White Wrym and Ice Fiend. I cannot fight them without running off several times to heal. Died, lost insurance, worn off gear, and got nothing.

    It is extremely unfair for thief or non-attack templates to get any rewards by hiding and stealing without losing anything. They don't even need any imbued gear to work.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it
  • RockStaRRockStaR Posts: 168
    Seth said:
    This is so unfair... my million dollar sampire is destroyed by Paragons White Wrym and Ice Fiend. I cannot fight them without running off several times to heal. Died, lost insurance, worn off gear, and got nothing.

    It is extremely unfair for thief or non-attack templates to get any rewards by hiding and stealing without losing anything. They don't even need any imbued gear to work.
    Thief's have always been about riskvreward. Up until tram. Still gotta do the risk somehow. Including being revealed and dying.
  • @popps Thieving wouldn't work in Ice as it currently stands, the place is too crowded and the paragons would make it too unsafe for stealthers.  In Khaldun it worked, you could stealth to find hidden boxes and wait until the area around the box you wanted to open was relatively clear, or clear it for a short time before the area re-spawned. Spawn was much less dense.
    AND for the second time will you PLEASE stop referring to all warriors as 'variations of a sampire'.  They are NOT all sampires.  I do not have any sampires, I have an archer and a warrior. Sampires have necromancy in their template.  Any warrior without necromancy is not a sampire, nor a variation of one!
  • SethSeth Posts: 1,614
    edited December 2020
    RockStaR said:
    Seth said:
    This is so unfair... my million dollar sampire is destroyed by Paragons White Wrym and Ice Fiend. I cannot fight them without running off several times to heal. Died, lost insurance, worn off gear, and got nothing.

    It is extremely unfair for thief or non-attack templates to get any rewards by hiding and stealing without losing anything. They don't even need any imbued gear to work.
    Thief's have always been about riskvreward. Up until tram. Still gotta do the risk somehow. Including being revealed and dying.

    What I meant is to ask someone to stop targeting sampire. It has been "nerfed" in the Forest boss fight, and it isn't "God Mode" in Ice. Please stop bashing sampire as if its King.

    I have same template build as anyone of you can make, and apart from PVP being the most expensive overall, for PVM I think the template for sampire/warrior is the most expensive. I am happy for anyone to ask for what they want but not at the expense of others. 

    P.S. I have lost alot of insurance in recent fight. Warrior gear's insurance are Very expensive. My thief always wear cheap stuff and low insurance as its prepared to die most of the time, e.g. in Khaldun and Katalkotl.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it
  • SethSeth Posts: 1,614
    Maybe someone should try the chests in Ice. After say 100 chests maybe can find some drops in there too.

    From the news, something about thieves:

    The present winter…

    Each night, the thief dreamt of losing all his ill-gotten wealth. Sometimes, a great chasm would open to swallow his treasure horde. Other nights, he was running through the snow, arms filled with coins, jewelry, and magic weapons, only to have the wind snatch all of them away. Purlonio could not allow this to happen.

    The thief had burgled a mage with a reputation for collecting powerful artifacts, hoping one of them could protect his treasure. Purlonio moved his stash to the frozen caves north of Wrong prison. It was far from the city’s bustle and avoided by people like him.

    The thief decided to start with the smallest of the stolen baubles and work his way up. Picking up a silver locket, Purlonio waved it in the air. When nothing happened, the thief pried it open with a knife.

    There came a great cold and terrifying roar from the locket, and the thief threw it across the cavern. Frost and snow billowed from the silver trinket, and Purlonio could see monstrous forms in the chaos. The terrified thief fled.

    The locket was open, and the winter was free.

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it
  • AragornAragorn Posts: 284
    edited December 2020
    playing melee worrior is not painless in this ice event. you can't attack frost ooze and platinum drake if you use chivalry.  I'm having a hard time dodging them than killing mobs which made this event less enjoyable than the previous deceit event. 
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,620
    Seth said:
    Maybe someone should try the chests in Ice. After say 100 chests maybe can find some drops in there too.

    From the news, something about thieves:

    The present winter…

    Each night, the thief dreamt of losing all his ill-gotten wealth. Sometimes, a great chasm would open to swallow his treasure horde. Other nights, he was running through the snow, arms filled with coins, jewelry, and magic weapons, only to have the wind snatch all of them away. Purlonio could not allow this to happen.

    The thief had burgled a mage with a reputation for collecting powerful artifacts, hoping one of them could protect his treasure. Purlonio moved his stash to the frozen caves north of Wrong prison. It was far from the city’s bustle and avoided by people like him.

    The thief decided to start with the smallest of the stolen baubles and work his way up. Picking up a silver locket, Purlonio waved it in the air. When nothing happened, the thief pried it open with a knife.

    There came a great cold and terrifying roar from the locket, and the thief threw it across the cavern. Frost and snow billowed from the silver trinket, and Purlonio could see monstrous forms in the chaos. The terrified thief fled.

    The locket was open, and the winter was free.

    Maybe someone should try the chests in Ice. After say 100 chests maybe can find some drops in there too.
    Do you know how long it would take for a Rogue to go to 100 dungeon chests, pick the locks, remove the traps, and how many deaths and investment of time would be necessary for all that ?

    HOURS.....

    In that same time, the same exact player with a Warrior, could get HUNDREDS of drops, not just 1....

    Who, I need to wonder, would EVER want to spent that much time for a single drop when, with another Template, they could get a LOT more drops ?

    The KEY to have players be able to play WHATEVER Template that they would like, is by giving them "moreless" the same drop rate in the same amount of playing time.... anything different WOULD NOT WORK, to my opinion, since players, that I noticed, then to most always maximize their drop rate...

    TIME is the real asset here, passed time will never come back, unfortunately.

    So, players tend to use whatever gets the fastest drops rate so as to use the least time possible.

    Any mechanics not taking this into account would NOT WORK, to my opinion, because players would most always go to whatever Template "works the best" for maximizing drops in the least investment of time.

This discussion has been closed.