Questions About Pets Tamed Before Publish 97

I see this line in today's updated publish notes:

"Pets tamed before Publish 97 (Pre-Patch Pets) with pet slots lower than their true pet slots will no longer be able to be trained."

I don't understand what this means.  I've done next to no animal training since Publish 97 because I'm still kind of confused about it, can't afford to buy power scrolls, and for the way I play the game, the pets I have are "good enough."

But I would really like to know what this means for the 50+ nightmares I own across all the shards.  I haven't done any animal training with any of them.  Are they going to continue to be 2-slot pets if I do absolutely nothing with them other than ride them and use them to kill stuff?  Or are some of them going to all of a sudden be 3-slot pets even if I didn't do anything to them, which would mean I could no longer use them as part of a rune beetle-nightmare combo or a white wyrm-nightmare combo?
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Comments

  • BleakBleak Posts: 127Dev
    edited April 2018
    This is only related to advanced pet training. https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/animal-taming/animal-training/
    Nothing will happen to your existing pets.The notes will be updated to the following:
    • Pets tamed before Publish 97 (Pre-Patch Pets) with pet slots lower than their true pet slots will no longer be able to start new advanced pet training.
  • VioletViolet Posts: 267
    edited April 2018
    This really needs clarification NOW.  I have tested and tested repeatedly taming fixes and issues on tc.   I have always been able to train my pets, including many prepatch nightmares and wyrms on all publishes on tc  Now that ability is being taken away?  I don't think broadsword realizes how many tamer accounts they could lose with this.

    i will no longer be able to train my 18 year old companions, but others who have already trained them get to keep them?   And this is being sprung on us?

    what about pets already initiated with the training?  Where is the testing for this?

    @bleak @Kyronix
  • KhyroKhyro Posts: 171
    @Bleak @Kyronix @Mesanna

    This is honestly a terrible way to go about this. 

    Pets that people have held onto for 15+ years, pets that people have spent 100's of millions on collecting due to their "Legacy" status, pets that are the pride and joy of a tamers collection... a lot of which have been sitting untrained due to various bugs with them reverting when they should not be...

    Your fix for these pets is to simply remove the ability to train them at all?

    Your revert code cannot differentiate between legit legacy pets and exploited pets, so your solution instead is to just REMOVE the ability for these pets to be trained?!

    I'd rather you leave in the code where they revert if fully trained, than to make everyone's legacy pets WORTHLESS. This is absolutely ridiculous.

    Can you even provide a full and comprehensive list of all the pets that will be affected by this? 

    Is this live on TC1 now to test?


    https://www.uo-cah.com
    Home of the Pet Intensity Calculator, Pet Planner, Trainable Animal Bestiary, and other Tools, Guides, and Information. 

  • MargretteMargrette Posts: 528
    @Khyro, I just lored an old nightmare I copied over to TC from Origin a few weeks ago and it looks like the training option is still there.   I think this update to Publish 99 is going to Origin, Baja, and Izumo tomorrow (April 3rd) at 11 a.m. Eastern Time. No idea if/when it will hit Test Center.
  • MargretteMargrette Posts: 528
    edited April 2018
    Just got disconnected on Test, so maybe it is being updated now.   (Edited to add:  Test isn't showing on the server list now either.)
  • MargretteMargrette Posts: 528
    Well, Test is up again but I don't think the changes that are supposed to be published to Origin, Baja, and Izumo tomorrow are active on Test yet.  Tried clicking the monks in the Chamber of Virtues and they still don't do anything and my old nightmare still shows that it can be trained.
  • BleakBleak Posts: 127Dev
    I have updated my previous post. Test Center is also up to date.
  • DJAdDJAd Posts: 278
    So the exploited pets with crazy stats will remain but you just won't be able to create new ones?
  • BleakBleak Posts: 127Dev
    edited April 2018
    Any exploited pets will be handled in a future publish after the release of Publish 99 as stated in the notes.
  • DJAdDJAd Posts: 278
    Can we have a public slaying of them all. 
  • With a feast? Feasts are cool.
    -Arroth
  • PawainPawain Posts: 2,717
    @Bleak

    What does this mean?

    1.  Some alterations to pet slot requirements are included in this publish which will affect new spawning creatures,  2.  however these changes will not be applied to existing pets unless Animal Training is undertaken.

    1.
    What will be the starting slots for the following pets?

    Nightmare

    Fire Steed

    Cu Sidhe

    Dragons

    Greater Dragons and Turtles

    Skree

    Najasaurus

    Thanks

    2.

    What will a Pre patch Nightmares slots be if the button is pushed after April 5?

    What will happen  to a pre pub nightmare that was trained to 4 slots by the returning player and he will not return for a month.  Will it stay where it was when he left off or will he not be able to train it?

    Thanks
  • EyeEye Posts: 78
    Start your engines!
    lol, you have 2 days to finish training all your pre patch pets, or they as good as stable deco!
    lol, here I was hoping someone would get back to me regarding my dead dreadhorse, since it weirdly jumped slots. 
    There are going to be a lot of dead mages the next couple of days. Can we at least get a loot boost on those please!
  • BleakBleak Posts: 127Dev
    edited April 2018
    Pawain said:
    @ Bleak

    What does this mean?

    1.  Some alterations to pet slot requirements are included in this publish which will affect new spawning creatures,  2.  however these changes will not be applied to existing pets unless Animal Training is undertaken.

    1.
    What will be the starting slots for the following pets?

    Nightmare

    Fire Steed

    Cu Sidhe

    Dragons

    Greater Dragons and Turtles

    Skree

    Najasaurus

    Thanks

    2.

    What will a Pre patch Nightmares slots be if the button is pushed after April 5?

    What will happen  to a pre pub nightmare that was trained to 4 slots by the returning player and he will not return for a month.  Will it stay where it was when he left off or will he not be able to train it?

    Thanks

    To provide context for other on your question 1 (see https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/animal-taming/animal-training/)
    Some alterations to pet slot requirements are included in this publish which will affect new spawning creatures?
    Post Pub 97 creatures spawn with updated pet slots based on their strength.

    What will be the starting slots for the following pets?
    Post Pub 97 these numbers can vary. Use Animal Lore on wild animals to see pet slots.

    What will a Pre patch Nightmares slots be if the button if pushed after April 5?
    Advanced pet training for a Nightmare will update the slots between 2 - 5 depending on skills and stats. If their pet slots are lower than their true pet slots you will not be able to advanced train it. You can this check out on TC1.

    What will happen  to a pre pub nightmare that was trained to 4 slots by the returning player and he will not return for a month.  Will it stay where it was when he left off or will he not be able to train it?
    Already trained pets will remain the same as of the launch of Publish 99.


  • MargretteMargrette Posts: 528
    Can someone please explain to me if I should be annoyed about this.   A few weeks ago after Publish 99 hit Test Center and the shard was wiped, I copied my tamer from Origin over  to Test Center.  She has a couple of old nightmares in her stable.  One of them is the one in the screen shots below, named Brunhilda.

    About 20 minutes ago, after messing around in the Chamber of Virtues to get the gump to come up on the monks, I went to the stable and pulled out this old nightmare and lored it.  It showed that it was at 2 stable slots and that I could start animal training on this pet.  So I took the plunge and pushed the button to start animal training.  Wasn't sure if this animal would qualify for animal training since it was tamed back in March 2008. (Looking at my notes about her, I see that it took me two hours to tame her because my tamer had barely enough skill to tame a nightmare at that point.)

    So what is going on?  Is this a pet that should NOT be able to be trained or is it so pathetic that it just doesn't matter?  I'm royally confused at this point.  Again, I'm very, very green with regard to the new animal training, so I really don't know what to expect.  All I know is that based on the publish note updates, I didn't expect to be able to start training this old nightmare that was tamed in 2008.  The only thing I can think of is that perhaps copying her to Test Center made her a post-Publish 97 pet.

    Here's a screenshot of the stat and resist info for this nightmare from a spreadsheet I keep with all my tamers' pet stats and skills:



    Here are screenshots of her stats, resists, and slot information from a few minutes ago, after I pushed the animal training button:


  • VioletViolet Posts: 267
    Bleak said:

    What will a Pre patch Nightmares slots be if the button if pushed after April 5?
    Advanced pet training for a Nightmare will update the slots between 3 - 5 depending on skills and stats. If their pet slots are lower than their true pet slots you will not be able to advanced train it. You can this check out on TC1.

    What will happen  to a pre pub nightmare that was trained to 4 slots by the returning player and he will not return for a month.  Will it stay where it was when he left off or will he not be able to train it?
    Already trained pets will remain the same as of the launch of Publish 99.



    So why are you punishing people who have not trained their legacies?  why is this change being made?  Are they down the road going to be reverted as exploits?
  • LarisaLarisa Posts: 306
    People don't get so worked up here....if you have a legitimate pre-patch pet it's going to be fine...notice he said if they have slots LOWER then their intended slots....so say I train my pre-patch mare up to 4 slots...but it started at 2...they will be able to see that it started at 2 and won't be affected because it will say 2>5.....the lore page will give them a clue as to how many original slots they had. I will of course test this once it hits Origin tomorrow although I only have 3 pre-patch pets left :/ ...well 5 counting my 2 Cu's but I really don't think there's any reason to worry here....IF I am able to train a pre-patch with the advanced animal training (since all of my pets I have tamed and trained myself, none bought or otherwise obtained) so are all legit pets but I don't see an issue here.

  • EyeEye Posts: 78
    DJAd said:
    So the exploited pets with crazy stats will remain but you just won't be able to create new ones?

    Bleak said:
    Any exploited pets will be handled in a future publish after the release of Publish 99 as stated in the notes.
    So, also possible that, if we trained all our legit pre patch pets now, once the pet exploit update is released, they MAY be flagged as exploits and nerfed...
  • EyeEye Posts: 78
    Margrette said:
    Can someone please explain to me if I should be annoyed about this.   A few weeks ago after Publish 99 hit Test Center and the shard was wiped, I copied my tamer from Origin over  to Test Center.  She has a couple of old nightmares in her stable.  One of them is the one in the screen shots below, named Brunhilda.


    I would train them from slot 2 to slot 5...
    Possible that pet may jump from slot 2 to slot 4, skipping a slot
    I am sure releasing it would do the opposite...
  • KhyroKhyro Posts: 171
    Larisa said:
    People don't get so worked up here....if you have a legitimate pre-patch pet it's going to be fine...notice he said if they have slots LOWER then their intended slots....so say I train my pre-patch mare up to 4 slots...but it started at 2...they will be able to see that it started at 2 and won't be affected because it will say 2>5.....the lore page will give them a clue as to how many original slots they had. I will of course test this once it hits Origin tomorrow although I only have 3 pre-patch pets left :/ ...well 5 counting my 2 Cu's but I really don't think there's any reason to worry here....IF I am able to train a pre-patch with the advanced animal training (since all of my pets I have tamed and trained myself, none bought or otherwise obtained) so are all legit pets but I don't see an issue here.

    That's not what this is about at all. Certain pets are legacy because they are lower control slots than fresh tames. And yes, these pets are 100% legal and legit pets. Most of which have been carried around by their owner for many many years.

    As an example, Legacy Dragons are 3 slots. New tame Dragons are 4 slots. Right now on TC, Legacy Dragons CANNOT be trained at all.
    https://www.uo-cah.com
    Home of the Pet Intensity Calculator, Pet Planner, Trainable Animal Bestiary, and other Tools, Guides, and Information. 

  • LarisaLarisa Posts: 306
    Well I was going to test this now but for some reason character copy is down.....Bleak can you look into that? I actually have a few more pre-patch pets then I realized but no banes or dreads.

  • BleakBleak Posts: 127Dev
    Larisa said:
    Well I was going to test this now but for some reason character copy is down.....Bleak can you look into that? I actually have a few more pre-patch pets then I realized but no banes or dreads.
    Origin, Baja, and Izumo cannot currently copy to TC1.
  • KHANKHAN Posts: 323
    edited April 2018
    First, my Dreads and Banes din't revert to 3 slots because I had "started" the training process before the rest (ones no training started) got reverted. NOW I'm SUPPOSED to train my 2 slot "prepatch" nightmares to KEEP them from JUMPIMG a slot. Or even be able to train them at all. Along with losing several plat in PS on pets that aren't nearly as viable because of the consume damage nerf (after the fact). With no way to recover scrolls on useless pets. This is getting to be WAY too much trouble, and almost not worth the effort of doing anything with pets. Whatever is done, or NOT done, will be wrong.
    If you sell UO items for R.L. $$$, you need to quit playing UO , and get a BETTER R.L. JOB!
  • MargretteMargrette Posts: 528
    @Bleak, what would the stats of a "pre-patch" nightmare have to be today in order to become ineligible for advanced pet training when the publish goes live?    I've been under the impression for years and years that max stats for a nightmare are as follows:

    Hit points 315
    Strength 525
    Dex 125
    Intelligence 125

    And the max possible resists would be: 
    65% Physical
    40% Fire
    40% Cold
    40% Poison
    30% Energy

    So if you have a perfect or near-perfect "pre-patch" nightmare that comes close to these maximums and it has never gone through advanced pet training, does this publish make this pet ineligible for advanced training?  If yes, what's the cut-off for that to happen as compared to the pet I showed in my post above that is still at 2 slots and definitely isn't a perfect nightmare?  I have an old nightmare on Balhae that I tamed many years ago on GL and that I use a lot which has 315 hit points and 525 strength and resists of 63/31/33/34/28.  I haven't had any plans to advance train it any time soon because I'd probably wreck it due to not knowing what I'm doing, but I'm wondering now if that nightmare is going to become ineligible for advanced pet training due to this publish. 
  • LarisaLarisa Posts: 306
    Bleak said:
    Larisa said:
    Well I was going to test this now but for some reason character copy is down.....Bleak can you look into that? I actually have a few more pre-patch pets then I realized but no banes or dreads.
    Origin, Baja, and Izumo cannot currently copy to TC1.
    Well....that doesn't help! Forgot we had the publish...my bad!

    Guess I will wait until tomorrow!

  • MargretteMargrette Posts: 528
    Well, I copied my tamer from Balhae to Test and that nightmare I mentioned is still at 2 slots.

    Maybe I'm going at this all wrong worrying about decent (to me anyway) pets and be looking at the crummy ones on the off chance that somehow they have some characteristic that makes them look exploited.  Don't know anymore.
  • EyeEye Posts: 78
    @Bleak

    Very specific question for you sir.

    If I train my pet from slot x to slot 5 and NOT use my last set of 1501 training points, would I be able to use them after the patch goes live?

  • PawainPawain Posts: 2,717
    Khyro said:
    Larisa said:
    People don't get so worked up here....if you have a legitimate pre-patch pet it's going to be fine...notice he said if they have slots LOWER then their intended slots....so say I train my pre-patch mare up to 4 slots...but it started at 2...they will be able to see that it started at 2 and won't be affected because it will say 2>5.....the lore page will give them a clue as to how many original slots they had. I will of course test this once it hits Origin tomorrow although I only have 3 pre-patch pets left :/ ...well 5 counting my 2 Cu's but I really don't think there's any reason to worry here....IF I am able to train a pre-patch with the advanced animal training (since all of my pets I have tamed and trained myself, none bought or otherwise obtained) so are all legit pets but I don't see an issue here.

    That's not what this is about at all. Certain pets are legacy because they are lower control slots than fresh tames. And yes, these pets are 100% legal and legit pets. Most of which have been carried around by their owner for many many years.

    As an example, Legacy Dragons are 3 slots. New tame Dragons are 4 slots. Right now on TC, Legacy Dragons CANNOT be trained at all.

    @Bleak ;  Was this how you decided to fix the Dragons that kept reverting on Test Center?

    Is that the only pre pub pet affected?
  • BleakBleak Posts: 127Dev
    KHAN said:
    First, my Dreads and Banes din't revert to 3 slots because I had "started" the training process before the rest (ones no training started) got reverted. NOW I'm SUPPOSED to train my 2 slot "prepatch" nightmares to KEEP them from JUMPIMG a slot. Along with losing several plat in PS on pets that aren't nearly as viable because of the consume damage nerf (after the fact). With no way to recover scrolls on useless pets. This is getting to be WAY too much trouble, and almost not worth the effort of doing anything with pets. Whatever is done, or NOT done, will be wrong.
    Did you just copy to TC1?
  • KHANKHAN Posts: 323
    Bleak said:
    KHAN said:
    First, my Dreads and Banes din't revert to 3 slots because I had "started" the training process before the rest (ones no training started) got reverted. NOW I'm SUPPOSED to train my 2 slot "prepatch" nightmares to KEEP them from JUMPIMG a slot. Along with losing several plat in PS on pets that aren't nearly as viable because of the consume damage nerf (after the fact). With no way to recover scrolls on useless pets. This is getting to be WAY too much trouble, and almost not worth the effort of doing anything with pets. Whatever is done, or NOT done, will be wrong.
    Did you just copy to TC1?
    The nightmare yes. The dreads and banes no. I'm not even bothering with them any more. 
    If you sell UO items for R.L. $$$, you need to quit playing UO , and get a BETTER R.L. JOB!
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