Dress/Reskill double focus skill loss

MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
edited August 2020 in Bugs
Wearing a VvV crystalline ring with +20 focus, +20 magery. (and a +10 focus obi di ense)

Please observe focus and magery skill.
Upon death, you lose focus and magery skill as expected as now naked. Then when dress, as expected, during combat you do not yet receive the + 30 focus and + 20 magery instantly due to the combat +skills timer. However upon a second death, for some reason you then lose a further 20 focus skill? This is not just a display issue, you do actually lose the skill.




The only way to reset the skill is to log out and in.


Exploit concept: (untested) If this is repeatable with other jewellery with more than 2 skills, perhaps you could rince and repeat the process until 0 skill, or negative skill, and then train that skill at 0 value level (easier), when you actually have high real skill
I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

Breaking in the young since 2002


Comments

  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited September 2020
    Update,

    The skill loss is repeatable for any secondary skill on a ring, and can take you all the way down to 0 skill. However you cannot gain in skill while under this effect. So it's like a perma stat loss, (until you relog)


    A lot of people have more than one skill on jewelry and a lot of people get reskilled by players, and not realise they're
    a) still in a status of certain skill loss
    b) unable to gain in skill.

    This could cause some frustration and confusion for a lot of people.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited September 2020
    ESPECIALLY A WARNING TO PEOPLE USING +ANIMAL TAMING/LORE SKILL JEWELRY as a secondary skill, if you get reskilled by a player, your taming skill will drop and drop and your pet could unbond if you try to command it repeatedly.

    You do not have to be in VvV for this to affect you.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • I can confirm this issue, please fix asap priority
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 1,442
    edited September 2021
    "appeal for more info:
    a friend of mine is claiming his magery drops skill on a daily basis at supposed random times, claims they have not been reskilled/are not getting reskilled
    Friend has +30 skill on both jewels (so magery is second skill on both jewels)
    Friend does not use an official client
    anyone else experiencing issues?

    Friend had blessed both of their jewels, i tried blessing one of my +30 skills, could not reproduce on TC on official client (aside from the know issue of being reskilled by another player)"
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  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,014
    Shouldn't mention of unauthorized client merit a ban?
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • gaygay Posts: 112
    It's a result of the poorly done change with delaying skill increase items while in combat.

    Basically:
    Die, then res within the combat timer.
    Equip your items, you are now on delay for skill increase.
    Get reskilled.
    Res, equip items, you are still on delay for skill increase, but the new base value is lower.

    Similar thing used to happen (might still idk) if you lost connection/logged out and back in while under the influence of str/agi pots. Your buff would be cleared and your stats would be whatever they are without pots, but the timer still existed, and after a few mins your stats would drop by however much you would gain with str/agi.

    The timer for skill delay was a poorly implemented idea that only served to punish a pretty small niche in the pvp community without any regard for the fact that there are disarmable and unequippable shields and weapons (and a spellbook since the change) that suffer from that mechanic outside of pvp.

    A better solution would have been a 5-10 second flat timed delay regardless of combat. Although that would still produce the same bug in this video in the current state of the game when reskilled within that window. The solution for that bug is simply to actually make use of the fix years ago for using a player vendor with +skill items to artificially reduce your modified skill, aka a basic skill check.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 1,442
    “The delay to applying skills during combat was and still is an absolute necessity, “
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  • gaygay Posts: 112
    edited September 2021
    Yoshi said:
    “The delay to applying skills during combat was and still is an absolute necessity, “

    Not saying it wasn't. Just saying it was poorly implemented, and has led to the resurfacing of bugs with already broken code such as stated above.

    Also that is a matter of perspective. The downside to having multiple sets of armor in a backpack comes with the extra cost in insurance (although not an issue for most today, it is still a relevant factor), the increased object delay, and the additional weight incurred by the player, meaning less consumables for pvp on hand.

    Pairing the accumulated object delay with a delay of 5-10 seconds means upwards of a 20 second delay for a partial suit swap, and as low as 7 second delay for simply jewelry at the low end, and 12 seconds at the high end.

    Furthermore I hardly believe you or I speak for the entire community as far as what needs or doesn't need to happen. But let's try to keep this thread on track and mod free.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,014
    and how much of this happens in an official client? with no outside forbidden programs involved?
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • gaygay Posts: 112
    edited September 2021
    McDougle said:
    and how much of this happens in an official client? with no outside forbidden programs involved?

    100% of this happens with the official client.
    Dress macros are an enhanced client feature that the devs baked into the classic client years ago. Not sure exactly what any third party loader or client would have to do with a server specific rule.

    I mean if you look at the video, in all of it's 480p glory in the year 2021, UO Assist is the third party client loader that is being run, which is an approved client loader for over 20 years now.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,014
    gay said:
    McDougle said:
    and how much of this happens in an official client? with no outside forbidden programs involved?

    100% of this happens with the official client.
    Dress macros are an enhanced client feature that the devs baked into the classic client years ago. Not sure exactly what any third party loader or client would have to do with a server specific rule.

    I mean if you look at the video, in all of it's 480p glory in the year 2021, UO Assist is the third party client loader that is being run, which is an approved client loader for over 20 years now.
    Merv mentioned unauthorized programs i was just following up
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 1,442
    “the severity level on this has dropped since publish 111 as bonded pets can no longer go wild,

    however did receive an up request for this for skill loss on reskill"
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 1,442
    edited April 22
    "upgraded to exploit status, (proof emailed)"
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 1,442
    "(Have managed to reproduce the skill loss effect without being reskilled, simply happens when swapping jewellery with more than one skill on during PvP combat and switching back again before the timer is up)"
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 1,442
    edited May 12
    "so contrary to the initial belief that you'll be unable to gain skill while under the skill loss effect, you can infact gain skill.
    the following skills are then subject to increased gain ability above what was intended due to being able to gain at lower mana useage and faster spell casting speed:
    Magery, eval, bushido!, ninjitsu, necromancy, spirit speak, mysticism, chivalry,



    There may be tricks using this to training barding skills etc that i have not thought of - not my area"


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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 1,442
    "More hacks with this bug :)


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  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,175
    Cool we will be max skill in no time when NL comes out.   :D
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 1,442
    edited June 10
    "This can be further escalated using a buffer overun to give seemingly unlimited skill points. Can put more skills on if you require further proof. Please PM for repro details if required, (not suggesting that anyone is not capable of doing their job), can't be disclosed here due to severity of exploit"

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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 1,442
    edited June 10
    "I am intrigued to find out just how much we have to escalate bugs into exploits before they are fixed"

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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 1,442
    edited June 10
    “Re forum mod official warnings. Please note, by pointing out the buffer overflow, I am not in any way suggesting that any developer requires any help from any player, I am sure they were aware of the potential severity of the issue since Aug 2020 when bug was initially posted. Apologies for any offence these posts have caused as that was not the intention, was only trying to get bugs fixed”
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 1,442
    edited June 16
    "Pawain says the amount of time it takes to add skills is not worth doing the bug,
    I bugged all these skills in one go at the exact same time in <20 minutes and don't even have to be attended, can put macro on loop.. (they would all be 120 if i had powerscrolls),

    instead of removing and replacing the one jewel with 2 skills (bugging the secondary skill)
    Achieved efficiency by placing 5 skills on jewel (bugging 4 skills), you swap between a second jewel also with 5 other different skills (bugging an additional 4 skills), using the dress macro. This is 8 times faster than the original demo. Also there is no limit to the number of skills that can be bugged, (just cannot do it to skills that do not appear on jewellery)

    which is quicker than the mysticism bug here
    which takes 15 minutes because most people don't want to use mysticism mastery and there is a cooldown to switch back, and most mysticism PvPers go to the effort to exploit that bug every day...






    also i don't think you're supposed to be able to train skills this easy..


    I don't see why PvP related bugs should be any lower priority than any other bug, when they can affect non pvp things too (personal opinion)"


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  • MariahMariah Posts: 2,116Moderator
    It has already been stated that this is a known issue. We need no further demonstrations of your prowess as an exploiter.
This discussion has been closed.