A Discussion for the change to Bulk Order Books (Yes again)

@Mesanna Good Day to you:
  Again as it says in the top liner this is about Bulk Order Books and the item count they have at the time.
I read your statement on the request almost every crafter has asked for the last few years with a resounding NO. 
We need to chat on this. 
  There is not a damn thing in those books these days that is worth more then a mill selling! So why the serious NO?
  If its on duping, one would think it is stupid to waste on a bod book in my opinion due to those facts..  Even if the book was stuffed full of barbed reward bods filled the only thing that would happen is the price would go even lower then it is now which is around 300 to 600 k depending on shard. 
Not event he dyes are worth much as the glut of them has the price so low and the new has worn off so not many are dazzled by them. 
  If you want to catch dupers go after the guy on Atlantic who has duped 2011 gift tickets the evidence of it is all over the trash room in abyss most days.  They are after the rare boxes if the junk they toss is any guess. My thief has on one day alone collected and counted over 500 in gift cards.. and this has been reported over and over. Ok back to the subject at hand...
  Look as many crafters have said to you in the past this is not fair. As you know the other books hold their limit and have a foot print of 1 item.  
I have known your not a crafter from years of knowing this game, but think of how it effects our play. You get a large bod then it can take months to get the parts, this is no joke. Yes some of us do grab bods with other chars but their level in the skill is no where near the main character's who craft so the bods are few and far between to fill one large. 
  Right now a full 500 count book is 124 item count.  Even if you go 100 per book 5 fill a bug's bag with little room for supplies. The lag the vendors make is only part of the mess.  i have been handed books stuffed with bods as many gave up..  I get them in my mail boxes!!
All i am asking is to be reasonable on the count  raise it to 10 per even that might help but i would ask for the 1 item count per book no matter the bods inside.  my crafters would be grateful for the consideration. And i know the others of UO's crafting set would be estatic too

Yours Truly
Lady Storm

Comments

  • poppspopps Posts: 1,682
    @ Mesanna Good Day to you:
      Again as it says in the top liner this is about Bulk Order Books and the item count they have at the time.
    I read your statement on the request almost every crafter has asked for the last few years with a resounding NO. 
    We need to chat on this. 
      There is not a damn thing in those books these days that is worth more then a mill selling! So why the serious NO?
      If its on duping, one would think it is stupid to waste on a bod book in my opinion due to those facts..  Even if the book was stuffed full of barbed reward bods filled the only thing that would happen is the price would go even lower then it is now which is around 300 to 600 k depending on shard. 
    Not event he dyes are worth much as the glut of them has the price so low and the new has worn off so not many are dazzled by them. 
      If you want to catch dupers go after the guy on Atlantic who has duped 2011 gift tickets the evidence of it is all over the trash room in abyss most days.  They are after the rare boxes if the junk they toss is any guess. My thief has on one day alone collected and counted over 500 in gift cards.. and this has been reported over and over. Ok back to the subject at hand...
      Look as many crafters have said to you in the past this is not fair. As you know the other books hold their limit and have a foot print of 1 item.  
    I have known your not a crafter from years of knowing this game, but think of how it effects our play. You get a large bod then it can take months to get the parts, this is no joke. Yes some of us do grab bods with other chars but their level in the skill is no where near the main character's who craft so the bods are few and far between to fill one large. 
      Right now a full 500 count book is 124 item count.  Even if you go 100 per book 5 fill a bug's bag with little room for supplies. The lag the vendors make is only part of the mess.  i have been handed books stuffed with bods as many gave up..  I get them in my mail boxes!!
    All i am asking is to be reasonable on the count  raise it to 10 per even that might help but i would ask for the 1 item count per book no matter the bods inside.  my crafters would be grateful for the consideration. And i know the others of UO's crafting set would be estatic too

    Yours Truly
    Lady Storm
    I fully agree with what you say Lady Storm, and also have a hard time understanding why there is such a hard stance from the Developers on reducing BOD books items count.

    And on the topic, of items count, I also have a hard time understanding why we have not yet seen Weapons Racks or Armor Armoires which would hold 500 weapons or 500 armor pieces, respectively, and only count as 1 item.... even better, with filters and a serch function to find that 1 piece of armor or weapon which one might want, at a given time...

    Or, to stay on that topic still, why there is still items in the game which do not stack, to reduce items count...

    Being able to reduce items count, be them BODs, Weapons, Armor, etc. would greatly enhance players' gameplay to my opinion so, I fail to understand why these things do not come in the game, why we do not get more ways to reduce items count....
  • MargeMarge Posts: 317
    I just put a full BOD book (500) on my crafter with an empty backapck. The item count when hovering over the backpack is 101. My vendors that hold my books can hold a full book of 500 and a book with 119 BODs.

    I have never had a problem with the item count of BOD books. Am I only the crafter with a beetle and a clean backpack?
  • TimTim Posts: 608
    Most of my problems with BOD books were solved with adding and removing BODs from a locked down book.

    Unlimited storage is the ultimate easy button. Keep everything it might be useful some day.
  • dvviddvvid Posts: 184
    edited July 24
    BOD books should be 1-10 item count, I agree. My crafters typically have their books in the bank and I’m at a point where this isn’t even doable anymore. Some are stored at home, which is a whole other storage battle.  If you have a larger house, which is hard to come by, maybe it’s more doable, but not everyone has that. 

    I also agree that some things need to be made stackable. Fresh ginger, cocoa butter, etc. stuff like that takes up even more space in my cooks bank. I can barely use the bank on my cook because there’s so many ingredients. 

    I can also confirm about the 2011 cards littering the cavern of the discarded in large amounts very often over the last year. Seems really sketchy. 
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,682
    Marge said:
    I just put a full BOD book (500) on my crafter with an empty backapck. The item count when hovering over the backpack is 101. My vendors that hold my books can hold a full book of 500 and a book with 119 BODs.

    I have never had a problem with the item count of BOD books. Am I only the crafter with a beetle and a clean backpack?
    To do that, though, you HAVE TO declare your House as Public and put up vendors.

    Not all players doing BODs are willing to have their House be set as Public....

    Now, "if" Broadword was to make it possible for PRIVATE Houses to have Vendors where players could stock up their BODs books then one might see it differently although, and this is no small detail, when using Vendors as storage for NOT FOR SALE Bod Books containing BODs, there is ALWAYS the risk of forgetting to press that Escape Key to set the BOD book as not for sale which results in a BOD book going away for little....

    All those BODs which took time to gather gone in no time just because one forgot to press an Escape key....

    Frankly, I would MUCH rather prefer BOD books only count as 1 item and not have to use a "work around" of Vendors as a way to reduce item count and store BOD Books....
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,682
    edited July 24
    dvvid said:
    BOD books should be 1-10 item count, I agree. My crafters typically have their books in the bank and I’m at a point where this isn’t even doable anymore. Some are stored at home, which is a whole other storage battle.  If you have a larger house, which is hard to come by, maybe it’s more doable, but not everyone has that. 

    I also agree that some things need to be made stackable. Fresh ginger, cocoa butter, etc. stuff like that takes up even more space in my cooks bank. I can barely use the bank on my cook because there’s so many ingredients. 

    I can also confirm about the 2011 cards littering the cavern of the discarded in large amounts very often over the last year. Seems really sketchy. 
    I also agree that some things need to be made stackable. Fresh ginger, cocoa butter, etc. stuff like that takes up even more space in my cooks bank. I can barely use the bank on my cook because there’s so many ingredients. 
    Oh, it can get even worse with stackables....

    I have had items which are considered as stackable but which would NOT stack, for some reasons...

    I have lockpicks which are considered as stackable, well, I have separate stacks of lockpicks because some of them would not stack with others....

    Same with Magic Fish pies, I need to keep SEPARATE stacks of the same exact one fish pie, like stack A, stack B, stack C of the same exact magic fish pie because a given fish pie might stack with stack A but not B or C and another same exact fish pie might instead stack with stack B or C but not with A and so forth.....

    Which it of course means that, WITH STACKABLES, one has to still multiply their item count having to keep multiple stacks of the exact same one item since they would not stack...

    Oh, recently this happened to me even with SEEDS !!

    I wanted to make some room in a seeds box which was reaching the 5,000 limit and thought to take out some of the more numerous seeds and leave them as a stack in a lockdown container....

    Of course, since when you take seeds out of a Box they appear in one's own backpack, I could only do it a few hundreds at a time... so I would take out say 400 seeds, put them into a lockdown container, take another 400 seeds and put them in that same container to stack up with the other 400 seeds of the SAME EXACT TYPE I had previously extracted from the seeds box.

    Guess what ?

    The two 400 stacks of seeds which were stacked up in the Seeds Box would NOT stack up in the locked down container !!! This means, of course, that I now have TWO stacks counting as 2 items of 400 seeds of the same exact type when I instead could have 1 stack of 800 seeds counting as 1 item....

    And there is MORE items which have issues like this, where they "should be" stackable but, for one reason or another, they refuse to stack into one single pile and one is forced to maintain multiple stacked piles of that same exact one item....

    I just HOPE that, with this new "Tool" which the Developers are so happy about which will free up for them more time (if I am not wrong, I read a Developer posting on these Forums saying that with this new tool they can do in 1 hour what before took them 5 days of work to do...), they will have time now to spend working on REDUCING ITEMS count for us players so as to enhance our gameplay...

    Be it making BOD books count as 1 item, introduce NEW containers like Weapons Racks and Armor Armoires to hold, respectively, 500 Weapons and 500 Armor pieces and counting as 1 item, or working on fixing any and all issues that there might be with stacking not working well as well as making any and all items as stackables, or ANYTHING ELSE which might help players with their storage issues and to reduce their items count, WILL BE MUCH WELCOMED and a blessing come true !!

    @Kyronix , @Bleak , can we PLEASE see more Design work done towards REDUCING items' count for players to enhance our gameplay ?

    I mean, it is a good thing if MORE players keep playing Ultima Online and, possibly, pay their monthly subscription, right ?

    Thing is, that most new or returning players happen to go to Atlantic Server where housing space is limited and they have to settle for a small house with limited items space.

    These players, if they reach their items' limit, find a Wall that reduces their gameplay and they might stop playing.

    Making it available to them MORE ways to reduce items' count would mean permitting to all of these New and Returning players with only a small House, to be able to keep playing and pay for their monthly subscription.

    This is why I think that NEW ways to reduce items count like ntroducing NEW containers like Weapons Racks and Armor Armoires to hold, respectively, 500 Weapons and 500 Armor pieces and counting as 1 item, or reducing full BOD Books to only count as 1 item or working on fixing any and all issues that there might be with stacking not working well as well as making any and all items as stackables IS IMPORTANT to Ultima Online.

    Thank you SO much.
  • MargeMarge Posts: 317
    popps said:

    To do that, though, you HAVE TO declare your House as Public and put up vendors.

    Not all players doing BODs are willing to have their House be set as Public....

    Now, "if" Broadword was to make it possible for PRIVATE Houses to have Vendors where players could stock up their BODs books then one might see it differently although, and this is no small detail, when using Vendors as storage for NOT FOR SALE Bod Books containing BODs, there is ALWAYS the risk of forgetting to press that Escape Key to set the BOD book as not for sale which results in a BOD book going away for little....

    All those BODs which took time to gather gone in no time just because one forgot to press an Escape key....

    Frankly, I would MUCH rather prefer BOD books only count as 1 item and not have to use a "work around" of Vendors as a way to reduce item count and store BOD Books....

    You can set the security on your doors to owner only. (I even placed a house in fel on TC and even there you can have a public house with vendors and 'lock' your doors to all but you.

    The vendors have an option to opt out of search. Use it. Yes, it is still possible for you to accidentally set a book for sale; but a person would have to happen upon your house and look through each vendor and check each book. Highly unlikely.
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,682
    Marge said:
    popps said:

    To do that, though, you HAVE TO declare your House as Public and put up vendors.

    Not all players doing BODs are willing to have their House be set as Public....

    Now, "if" Broadword was to make it possible for PRIVATE Houses to have Vendors where players could stock up their BODs books then one might see it differently although, and this is no small detail, when using Vendors as storage for NOT FOR SALE Bod Books containing BODs, there is ALWAYS the risk of forgetting to press that Escape Key to set the BOD book as not for sale which results in a BOD book going away for little....

    All those BODs which took time to gather gone in no time just because one forgot to press an Escape key....

    Frankly, I would MUCH rather prefer BOD books only count as 1 item and not have to use a "work around" of Vendors as a way to reduce item count and store BOD Books....

    You can set the security on your doors to owner only. (I even placed a house in fel on TC and even there you can have a public house with vendors and 'lock' your doors to all but you.

    The vendors have an option to opt out of search. Use it. Yes, it is still possible for you to accidentally set a book for sale; but a person would have to happen upon your house and look through each vendor and check each book. Highly unlikely.
    But why would a player need to get through all this ordeal ??

    Because the Developers do not want to help players reduce their item count by permitting full BOD books to count as only 1 or at most 5 items or to implement other ways for players to reduce their items count effectively ?

    To me, using Vendors to stock up BODs seems a "work around" to a problem, not a really effective, functional solution....

    The effective, functional solution would be, to my opinion, having full BOD books only count as 1 item and not the many they count for now.
  • TimTim Posts: 608
    Just for the record I've been collecting BODs since they came out and NEVER stored any on a vendor. When I run out of room I fill and submit or go through them and toss the ones I'm not interested in doing. It ant hard.

    As for the stacking issue. Yes more thing should be stackable but really lock picks? How many K of them do you want? Keep one stackable set toss the others.

    Just because the Game gives you something you don't have to keep it. You'r not going to hurt its feelings by throwing some of it out.
     
  • MargeMarge Posts: 317
    How is any of that an ordeal? It takes what maybe 10 seconds to set door security? Half a second to choose opt out of search when you set up your vendor?

    They recently made Davies' Locker count for more than 1 item in your backpack. Why would they make BOD books count for less?
  • Lady_StormLady_Storm Posts: 400
    As for the house with vendors, I have set my doors to friends only, the vendors have an option to not be on the search which stops much traffic of players searching for bods. 
      The full book as of last checking takes 124 item count which left my crafter feeling a bit drafty as she needed to empty her pack and strip down to her birthday suit to access it. 
      My problem is I have dedicated crafters of multi skills.
      Take Longfellow my Origin crafter, He is my main crafter with some of the skills I need spread to others as needed. Skill limits stop him from being a true full crafter but this I can understand they will not ever consider to up this issue.  If you collect even just the main skill bods Tailoring, Smith, Tinker, and Carpentry that is 12 bods per trip to collect. that adds up to fill even one. 
     Your not guaranteed to get larges that often ether. Take Tinker for example. You can hope for one but most times its smalls that make little head way to fill any.
      If Mesanna thinks its easy to do she had best try to be a crafter for a month, sort of walk in Longfellow's shoes. There are not enough people on most shards to trade or buy from to get parts.  Now it would be so nice to keep my bods in my bug's pack so when I want to sit down to UO and create not to have to search vendor by vendor to get the right book make sure I can fit it in my bag and pull out the right ones...1 item count would make the books very easy to let my crafters do this.  The madness of this method has driven many to quit UO.  We lost a very large guild on Napa to a private shard all due to this.  They said it was the straw that broke the camels back. I am sure many who just want to sit and putter and not hunt mobs or fight pvp have done the same.  (I know a few that have hence the bod books in my mail boxes!!)  
    I would not balk if it was a silly thing but we are talking storage and use of a game system created to keep players in UO.   1 item count to 10 bods or even 1 to 25 bods would help. I do not see any abuse in the picture at the juncture in Bod rewards even if the books went to 1 total item count per book full or empty... 
    I am not alone.

  • Lady_StormLady_Storm Posts: 400
    Marge the reason for the Davies locker to change was to stop the duping of the high end maps and ancient sos's.  That is a real thing these days.  Now I will agree that is a change for the better for the game as a whole.  Not that I like it.. but I will except it.
  • TimStTimSt Posts: 1,038
    I do not think it is about abuse but more of server space. Each BOD is a unique item that needs to be tracked in some database.  The more BODs that are sitting around in books the larger the database needs to be. The larger the data base the slower it becomes to access it.
  • Lady_StormLady_Storm Posts: 400
    Tim 
    I can see your new to the game.... or not made in the era of 1997-1999.  We kept all as the use was not always seen till you did toss it out and got peved when you discovered you really needed that item.
    As for the lock picks... that sir I will address. My main T hunter goes through many in one chest as the Dev upped the attempts on breakage of said picks. Meaning even my GM LP can break a bunch in fails on a chest.  And she has been a GM LP from 1997!  
    I too wish they would add to the stacking chest in Brit the ability to stack things that should, my cook wishes they would a just the vendors in the towns that sell bowls of pea's to have them be stacked. Making wasabi is a pain in the neck
  • MargeMarge Posts: 317
    The full book as of last checking takes 124 item count which left my crafter feeling a bit drafty as she needed to empty her pack and strip down to her birthday suit to access it. "

    Per the UO Wiki:
    A bulk order book can hold up to 500 orders. The Book and the first 4 orders in it count as 1 item. For every 5 orders above the initial 4 (and fractions thereof), it will counts as one extra item, so when it’s filled it will count as 101 items.

    The Wiki Count is also the count I get - and yes I checked the first time I posted and this time. If it really is showing 124 items - you may be bugged. I would strip down and die and see if that helps. If that doesn't help try a GM.

  • Lady_StormLady_Storm Posts: 400
    I am not sure if that is the issue... Tim  
    I know when I asked once about the storage of info, I was told much about a character is kept on our side of the system.   Now don't quote me on it but i think its a non issue.
  • Lady_StormLady_Storm Posts: 400
    Marge  124 item count = 500 bods per book
  • Lady_StormLady_Storm Posts: 400
    Every 4th bod is an item count so if you have 500 bods  4 divided into 500 = 124
  • MariahMariah Posts: 1,268Moderator
    Are you aware that you can now remove bods from a locked down book without the need to have it in your back pack? Also add them to a locked down book.
  • Lady_StormLady_Storm Posts: 400
    I have bods on Cats, Origin, Napa, Atlantic, Oceania, Siege, Baja, Sonoma, Hokuto,
      I might still have on other shards but for the fact I moved them to mains as I gave away castles to close down a good deal of my accounts.   
      I have cut back from 56 to 36 accounts so far. No they are not small collections ether, and i do send with my travelers using my shields tokens when I have on one shard a bod I need else where.  
  • Lady_StormLady_Storm Posts: 400
    Yes Mariah I do.   But there again if the book was 1 item count like the other books it would not even be and issue. Alas its not.  Lockdowns has been the bane of UO from day 2 day 1 was the fun part. hehe
  • Lady_StormLady_Storm Posts: 400
    if the Dev want to make that a condition to the book becoming a 1 item count that only happens when its locked down on the house floor/table etc  I will be happy to go for it
  • MargeMarge Posts: 317
    Every 4th bod is an item count so if you have 500 bods  4 divided into 500 = 124
    It's every 5th BOD is an item count : 500 divided by 5 = 100 + the book = 101

    If your backpack is really saying 124 items in an empty backpack with only 1 full 500 count bod book in it - YOU ARE BUGGED!

  • TimTim Posts: 608
    Actually I've been playing for going on 20 years. 
    Yes I've tossed things I wish I hadn't but knowing what to save and not is part of the game.

    My point on lock picks was they are easy and cheep to make. If you get one that doesn't stack toss it and make another. Sorry about the sarcasm but you really could have picked a better item to make your case on. Also your account may have a problem with lock picking as well. My T-maper only carries 25 lock picks and I can't think of the last time I had to go to my spare "skeleton key" because I ran out (I only reload at the start of a night). 
  • KHANKHAN Posts: 326
    Every 4th bod is an item count so if you have 500 bods  4 divided into 500 = 124
    It's every 5th bod that raises the "item count". I have roughly 250 "bod vendors" Most storing 622 bods (1 book of 224 bods, and 2 books of 199 bods). Every 5th bod increases the count by 1. a book with 199 bods equals 40 "item count" Add 1 more bod (to 200 even raises it by 1 count). at 205 bods it will add 1 more. Filling books to a count that ends in a 4 or a 9 is the way to maximize your storage!
    If you sell UO items for R.L. $$$, you need to quit playing UO , and get a BETTER R.L. JOB!
  • dvviddvvid Posts: 184
    I always do the small BODs that aren’t part of a larger BOD. I consider them “reset bods” so I can get another after turning it in. My BOD books only hold large BODs and smalls that are part of the large ones. Still, storage is an issue. 
  • Lady_StormLady_Storm Posts: 400
    Small bods make the best tools for the non tinker characters. a 10 count anything will get you that skill's 250 count tool. A great way to help your workout in training as it will take less room in ones pack.  If it don't fit into a Large bod this is the best use.    
    OK I did some research and a change was put in when we got the 2nd set of skill bulk orders added.  As i pointed out to Mesanna about the 500 count many times its seems she and the Dev a justed the way the book count goes.  This change is as follows:
       
       A bulk order book can hold up to 500 orders. The Book and the first 4 orders in it count as 1 item. For every 5 orders above the initial 4 (and fractions thereof), it will counts as one extra item, so when it’s filled it will count as 101 items. Items may be added or removed if the book is in the character’s  back pack or locked down in a house to which the character has required access.

    So you are correct and I was running on old knowledge of what I had to do prior to this addition of new bods.  At least now Daphne can keep her clothes on!  But it still is a pain in the royal tush to keep this many bods on a vendor when I have many crafters on the same shard all needing to work and not have the trouble of changing to the holder account every time I need a book off the darn thing.  
    As for the lockpicks there was a change there too and the breaking of them was added even for GM LPs. If your not breaking them shhhhhh!  your a lucky one. 
  • Lady_StormLady_Storm Posts: 400
    Welp she wont budge as of the Meet & Greet.  Its a shame but expected...  After that meeting I got a few more bulk order books in my mail box....  I got time to do bods with the covid 19 lock up we got going... but was hoping for a little help from her.   oh well 
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