Crafting ideas

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  • PawainPawain Posts: 3,986
    My only addition to this thread will be the same feelings I"ve posted before on this topic. The absolute best items in the game should be craftable, or do I need to remind everyone of the actual titles...Legendary Blacksmith !!!...Legendary Tailor !!! Not..."Kinda Good, but you can get better items from The Roof"...
    If this were the case, why would we go hunting? Most loot is armor or weapons. 
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 469
    Agree 100% @Pawain
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,160
    edited July 2020
    Pawain said:
    My only addition to this thread will be the same feelings I"ve posted before on this topic. The absolute best items in the game should be craftable, or do I need to remind everyone of the actual titles...Legendary Blacksmith !!!...Legendary Tailor !!! Not..."Kinda Good, but you can get better items from The Roof"...
    If this were the case, why would we go hunting? Most loot is armor or weapons. 
    I am of the opinion that it is possible to maintain in the same one gaming environment a fully "main" playable Fighting character and a fully "main" playable Crafting character.

    The one condition to have "both" characters be viable as a "main" played character, that is, one that would occupy the players in-game time like 90% of the time, is that what such a character can achieve is comparable with the other.

    That is, if a Fighter can have access to Legendary quality items through fighting and hence looting, so then should the crafters be likewise able to have access to the same quality of Legendary items when making them, instead of looting them (crafting vs. fighting).

    Having either one be only able to get to "lesser" items as compared to the other one, would inevitably have players flock to the one playing style (Fighting or Crafting) which would give them the upper hand in terms of quality of items obtained and frequency of availability.

    This is why I insist on saying that Crafters should be made able to make Legendary quality items if we really want Crafting to be a thing in Ultima Online again.

    If Fighters are able to get better stuff from loot (as it is now), why would then players want to bother with crafting and settle for lesser items ?

    To me, it would make no sense.

    Once we agree on this "balance", that is, crafted items needing to be craftable of the same quality as that of Legendary looted items, of course we would need to go on to "step 2" of it.... that is, making it sure that then Crafting would not "top" Fighting as a way to get best items in the game...

    And how can this be achieved ?

    My idea, was that of making crafting so complex, high learning curve and time consuming as a crafting process that only a few players would want to make the effort and hard work of really mastering it....

    This would then limit the number of crafted Legendary quality items in the game (because only a limited number of crafters would make the effort to go all the way to high end crafting... and because the crafting process for such items would be so much time consuming that they would be hardly left any time to play a Fighter if most of their time needs be spent on crafting to make such high end items....) but still make it a viable option for those players who really want to make the effort, dedication and work to learn and master the complex and time consuming crafting process at least to make High End, Legendary quality items.

    There you go.

    BOTH ways to obtain high end items would be viable, but neither one would top the other.

    Perhaps there might be other ways to achieve such a balance between Crafting and Figthing as a way to obtain high end items, I do not know, to my mind came up the one of making Crafting a very complex, high learning curve and very much time consuming, perhaps to others other ways to make the 2 different ways to get to high end items might come up their minds....

    But the key goal to reach, if we want both ways to get high end items as a main play style for players, that is either through Fighting or Crafting be alternate to one another, THEN, the way I see it, it must be permitted to Crafters to be able to make items which are comparable to Legendary looted ones and not lesser to them.

    That is at least how I see it.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 469
    @popps - Where do you draw the line by your logic? I could make the same exact argument using Begging; that it should allow for us to get legendary gear because it's only fair. Maybe the legendary items that are the most sought after should also just be in the local shop wooden boxes so a thief could steal them; again why should this template settle for lesser items?

    At the end of the day the game is built around content and the best of items should only go to those that can complete it. There is no risk with crafting (ie no risk no reward) like there is with fighting. I do think crafting should have the potential boosted a bit as I outlined earlier but there is no reason a player should be able to craft the same caliber items as the highest end content provides. 

    At the end of the day I think the Devs are smart enough not to give in to those people that want the entire game to be a walk in the park with everything being the same no matter who you are and what you do so this is my last post directed to you as you seem to be repeating yourself with the same "it's only fair" logic so ultimately we can agree to disagree. 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 3,986
    @popps I have 21 developed characters. Are you saying the game should be geared so I should only be able to effectively play 1 of them. I could play 6 to 8 hours a day if I pleased. Your silly complications and time needed won't effect me. I could use a more complex crafting  system and make much better armor than someone like you who does not know the mechanics of current crafting system.
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,160
    edited July 2020
    keven2002 said:
    @ popps - Where do you draw the line by your logic? I could make the same exact argument using Begging; that it should allow for us to get legendary gear because it's only fair. Maybe the legendary items that are the most sought after should also just be in the local shop wooden boxes so a thief could steal them; again why should this template settle for lesser items?

    At the end of the day the game is built around content and the best of items should only go to those that can complete it. There is no risk with crafting (ie no risk no reward) like there is with fighting. I do think crafting should have the potential boosted a bit as I outlined earlier but there is no reason a player should be able to craft the same caliber items as the highest end content provides. 

    At the end of the day I think the Devs are smart enough not to give in to those people that want the entire game to be a walk in the park with everything being the same no matter who you are and what you do so this is my last post directed to you as you seem to be repeating yourself with the same "it's only fair" logic so ultimately we can agree to disagree. 
    Risk in fighting ?

    Where is that if I may ask when a fighter has his/her suit all insured ?

    I am sorry, but I cannot see any difference in between Fighting and Crafting, to me they are the same, sure, different play styles suiting different players but I do not see why they should not bring the same end results (same high end items...).

    The "risk" so to speak with Crafting, justifying high end items, could come from the work, dedication, time investment connected with climbing a steep learning curve and complexity of the mechanics as well as in game time to spend on it.

    It does not have to be related to "death" (which, due to insurance does not even matter much, does it ?), it can be related to "work" and time spent associated.....

    I have no problem at all in seeing also other skills, you mentioned begging and stealing among others, being able to provide access to the high end items....

    What is necessary here, though, is to make sure that any way that would permit to players to get high end items, would not be possible to be scripted or such items would soon be all over the place (but perhaps they already are.... aren't they ?).

    Begging, not sure about stealing (it would depend on the stealing mechanics I would imagine), could perhaps be too easily scripted, even if the chance at a high end item was totally in the hands of the RNG... people would simply script begging characters 24/7 until they pile up high end items through it.

    After all, don't we already have that happen with Figthing where fighters are scripted to farm high end items ?

    Perhaps, here is where the line could be drawn.... avoiding those skills and skill related mechanics which could too easily be scripted....

    But crafting ?

    Depending on how the crafting process was to be created, I am hopefull that it could be made one that cannot be scripted because the script would be too complex, too massive, too cumbersone to want to bother with.

    One thing I am quite confident about though, unless Crafting is permitted to create same quality as high end Looted items, it will never be able to be a viable Profession once again in Ultima Online...

    I mean, why would players want to ever settle for "lesser" crafted items, if they can use for their templates better ones obtained via Looting ?
  • Garth_GreyGarth_Grey Posts: 1,175
    Mule was a term that began back before SoulStones. It was never meant to be any woke hurtful word. It meant the character(s) that did all of the heavy lifting, everyone knows that...well, I thought every one did.
    You and Several Others like this.


    Please make the Grizzled Mare a 5 slot mount, it's incredibly rare and deserves it.
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,160
    Pawain said:
    @ popps I have 21 developed characters. Are you saying the game should be geared so I should only be able to effectively play 1 of them. I could play 6 to 8 hours a day if I pleased. Your silly complications and time needed won't effect me. I could use a more complex crafting  system and make much better armor than someone like you who does not know the mechanics of current crafting system.
    One does not "have to" play any and all Professions in Ultima Online.... if they wish so, they need to play them as intended....

    It is their choice, they can do it or not.

    So, if Crafting was made particularly complex, time consuming, and with a very steep learning curve, at least when trying to make high end items comparable to Legenrday looted items, then players would need to make a choice on how they would be willing to spend their in game time, that is, whether playing a crafter is so much important to them to invest in playing a crafter the overall majority of their playing time.

    I see this as a necessary compromise to make Crafting once again a Profession of its own, playable as a "Main" character, without unbalancing the game.

    If High End Crafting will be sufficiently cumbersome to limit the number of players wanting to do it and, thus, the number of High End items which players could craft, comparable with Legendary Looted items, I do not see how this ability would inbalance the game.

    YET, it would be possible once again to play a Crafter as one's own Main occupation in Ultima Online...

    Those who do not want to bother with this cmplex, time consuming and steed learning curve Crafting ? They would get their high end items through Fighting as they do now...

    I frankly do not see why people gets so heated up by this....

    Is it better to have a useless Crafting where crafters cannot make anything worth selling other then Imbued Weapons and 190 Luck pieces ?

    I don't think so.

    I'd rather be able to have a Crafting that could make any and all items of comparable quality to High End Legendary looted pieces BUT with strings attached to it then what we have now which basically makes Crafting hardly playable.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 3,986
    popps said:
    Pawain said:
    @ popps I have 21 developed characters. Are you saying the game should be geared so I should only be able to effectively play 1 of them. I could play 6 to 8 hours a day if I pleased. Your silly complications and time needed won't effect me. I could use a more complex crafting  system and make much better armor than someone like you who does not know the mechanics of current crafting system.
    One does not "have to" play any and all Professions in Ultima Online.... if they wish so, they need to play them as intended....

    It is their choice, they can do it or not.

    So, if Crafting was made particularly complex, time consuming, and with a very steep learning curve, at least when trying to make high end items comparable to Legenrday looted items, then players would need to make a choice on how they would be willing to spend their in game time, that is, whether playing a crafter is so much important to them to invest in playing a crafter the overall majority of their playing time.

    I see this as a necessary compromise to make Crafting once again a Profession of its own, playable as a "Main" character, without unbalancing the game.

    If High End Crafting will be sufficiently cumbersome to limit the number of players wanting to do it and, thus, the number of High End items which players could craft, comparable with Legendary Looted items, I do not see how this ability would inbalance the game.

    YET, it would be possible once again to play a Crafter as one's own Main occupation in Ultima Online...

    Those who do not want to bother with this cmplex, time consuming and steed learning curve Crafting ? They would get their high end items through Fighting as they do now...

    I frankly do not see why people gets so heated up by this....

    Is it better to have a useless Crafting where crafters cannot make anything worth selling other then Imbued Weapons and 190 Luck pieces ?

    I don't think so.

    I'd rather be able to have a Crafting that could make any and all items of comparable quality to High End Legendary looted pieces BUT with strings attached to it then what we have now which basically makes Crafting hardly playable.
    No matter how complicated things are made, many of us will have usable templates that cover everything.
    Your complicated ideas just hurt the casual players.
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,160
    edited July 2020
    Pawain said:
    popps said:
    Pawain said:
    @ popps I have 21 developed characters. Are you saying the game should be geared so I should only be able to effectively play 1 of them. I could play 6 to 8 hours a day if I pleased. Your silly complications and time needed won't effect me. I could use a more complex crafting  system and make much better armor than someone like you who does not know the mechanics of current crafting system.
    One does not "have to" play any and all Professions in Ultima Online.... if they wish so, they need to play them as intended....

    It is their choice, they can do it or not.

    So, if Crafting was made particularly complex, time consuming, and with a very steep learning curve, at least when trying to make high end items comparable to Legenrday looted items, then players would need to make a choice on how they would be willing to spend their in game time, that is, whether playing a crafter is so much important to them to invest in playing a crafter the overall majority of their playing time.

    I see this as a necessary compromise to make Crafting once again a Profession of its own, playable as a "Main" character, without unbalancing the game.

    If High End Crafting will be sufficiently cumbersome to limit the number of players wanting to do it and, thus, the number of High End items which players could craft, comparable with Legendary Looted items, I do not see how this ability would inbalance the game.

    YET, it would be possible once again to play a Crafter as one's own Main occupation in Ultima Online...

    Those who do not want to bother with this cmplex, time consuming and steed learning curve Crafting ? They would get their high end items through Fighting as they do now...

    I frankly do not see why people gets so heated up by this....

    Is it better to have a useless Crafting where crafters cannot make anything worth selling other then Imbued Weapons and 190 Luck pieces ?

    I don't think so.

    I'd rather be able to have a Crafting that could make any and all items of comparable quality to High End Legendary looted pieces BUT with strings attached to it then what we have now which basically makes Crafting hardly playable.
    No matter how complicated things are made, many of us will have usable templates that cover everything.
    Your complicated ideas just hurt the casual players.
    But it would limit nonetheless  the number of players willing to get into High End crafting reducing them to only those truly motivated to play a Crafter 90% of their in-game time and to make the work, study and effort to master the truly high steep learning curve of it....

    Which it would make those Crafted, "same-Legendary-Quality" items be reduced from crafting and, thus, not be able to really replace Legendary Quality items obtained through Looting...

    Voila', we get our wanted game Balance while consenting to Crafters to make same Quality items as Legendary Looted items...

    Crafting in Ultima Online makes a comes back as a Main occupation and activity...

    Casual players wanting to do some crafting ?

    They could still do it ONLY, not the really top notch High End quality crafting which would need a whole lot more effort and in game time that they might be willing to invest....
  • SethSeth Posts: 1,195
    edited July 2020

    keven2002 said:
    @ Seth - I'm with you in that I'm also driven by functional items. That said, you are talking about jewelry which I don't think should be able to reforge 10SSI etc on. 

    However; I can see a potential for allowing the valorite runic hammer make items much better using the structural / fundamental toggles. For example as it stands now when using every single toggle on the reforging screen (10 charges of a val hammer) the total properties added still only would be 5 and most of the properties are the same as what can be imbued (maybe 1 might be overcap) all while the added durability (from fortified/integral - 2 charges) doesn't even go to max durability AND it can't be repaired. I think that if we use 8+ charges of a valorite hammer (over half it's charges) we should get something with some use in return (versus something we can create using a copper/gold runic + imbuing). 

    Yeah, maybe using the valorite reforging hammer isn't a good idea. I personally only use up to Copper and Bronze runic for reforging Mana Drain and Hit Fatigue. The higher end hammer - I am not even sure how to use them :D
    ---
    Back to the OP's proposal: Adding or remove specs from Legendary Loots (re-adjust the specs)

    I think to be able to add or remove is a great idea, but I don't think this would ever happen on legendary items. There might be balancing issues to test out. If it is a good idea in the first place, the Dev would make them as loot, why bother letting us come up with idea and try to make legendary loot "customisable"?

    However, a lesser issue would be to "add and remove" for items say lesser than legendary within 5 specs. In this way, we can make clean items for imbuing. I don't think this would cause any balancing issue, however, it will give us more options for rare specs on imbueable items. I mean other than 10 SSI, 18 SDI and 35 DI for jewels, maybe splintering, bane, etc or other new specials in future - which can be found as loot but require us to remove specs and then imbue our desired specs (still within 5 imbues), etc.


    We love bugs....
  • sibblesibble Posts: 71
    keven2002 said:
    @ sibble - Sorry I just disagree with adding more stuff (that's not really even crafting; aside from needing to craft the refinement) that relies on the RNG which is infamous as it is. 

    Not wanting RNG is a fair opinion... I'm just surprised a player would have this opinion based on the fact that most mechanics in UO are chance-based - even combat.

    120 Taming 120 Lore?  There's still a chance to fail to tame that dragon...

    However, I disagree with it not being considered crafting.  It's very similar to imbuing and refining.  Part of it is skill-based, part of it is chance - the only difference between that and imbuing is imbuing also takes additional resources, and in this case, the item to refine properties is the resource.  Also haven't discussed how to obtain the item at all as there are hundreds of ways to handle that.

    Imbuing is skill-based, uses resources, and has chance to fail.  The idea is almost identical.
  • KHANKHAN Posts: 366
    keven2002 said:

    My second suggestion was to just slightly increase the max weight (around 50 points) to give slightly more weights but nothing crazy (like someone said add 2 more properties and 200 more weight). This would allow a slight bump and allow people to craft things (and reforge/imbue) for a target specific item while also not overpowering things to the point of making legendary items trash.


    You realizing only 50 points won't help much, regardless of how many "mods" are allowed. I think my original comment of adding 2 more mods (up to 7) and 150-200 points of weight will bring crafting back, without "overpowering" the Legendary Artifacts,as they can have 8 mods AND 5 resists in the 17-19 range. The trade off being that while the Legendary can have a little more "weight", an imbued piece can be tailored to EXACTLY the mods needed. Making both viable.
    If you sell UO items for R.L. $$$, you need to quit playing UO , and get a BETTER R.L. JOB!
  • NorryNorry Posts: 298
    ^^^ and this really comes into play on smaller shards where there isnt as much loot for sale.

    Its a win win
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