Questions on a Stealth and Ninja Template to those more experienced.....

poppspopps Posts: 1,546
edited February 24 in Skills and Stats
I am planning on making a Template (no Artifacts worn) with the following Skills on :

Stealing             90 + 15 + 15 on Jewels
Snooping         100
Detect Hidden  100
Lockpicking      100
Hiding               100
Stealth                70 + 15 + 15 on Jewels
Magery               90 + 15 + 15 on Jewels
Ninjitsu               70
        Total         720 + 90 jewellery

Unless I made a mistake, A Ring/Bracelet with 15 Stealing/Stealth/Magery on + 16 LRC would cost, in materials needed, 4 x Magical Residue and 8 x Amber

With no Resisting Spells at all, this character is extremely weak so, it basically rely entirely on be able to hide no matter what AND, staying hidden no matter what....

Would likely need orange petals to make it up with at least some defense against getting poisoned too easily... that is another reason to have Stealth all the way to 120, so as not to be revelead even if poisoned...

Now, my # 1 question is, according to https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/ninjitsu/ if I always stay in Rabbit or Rat form I would get a bonus of +20 Stealth so my Stealthing skill would go to 120 ?

Question # 2 is, would I be able with 70 skill Ninjitsu to Shadowjump 100% of times (Stealth teleporting) without ever failing?

Question # 3, if I go Ostard or Llama form (requirement =70 skill points), and thus I drop the 20 Stealth bonus thus dropping from 120 Stealth to 100 Stealth, how much is this drop in Stealth going to make my Template be likely to be revealed by either Monsters or Players ?

And, Last Question # 4, is there anything wrong which you see in this Template or that you would want to modify ?

For example, if I dropped Ninjutsu entirely, and took Stealth to 90 rather then 70, what could I use the remaining 50 skill points for, more effectively ?

I would have LOVED to fit in that Template 120 Spellweaving (less then 120, to my opinion, is not worth it...) in place of Ninjitsu, but I thought and re-though about it and there is simply no way I can do it without wearing any Artifact with skills on...

And, unfortunately, imbuing can only imbue skill points on jewellery, not on any other item worn....

I could possibly drop some Magery points (up to 14, as I would not want to go below 106 Magery to be able to always, 100% of times, be able to cast Invisibility in case of necessity) to increase Ninjitsu up tp 84 points but I do not see what benefits the Template could get from having 84 Ninjutsu points rather then 70 since this is clearly a "defensive" Template rather then an "offensive" one.... so, I would have little use for Ki Attack or Death Strike (even if I went with 105 Magery and 85 Ninjitsu....).

Lastly, I am planning with this Template to use the Smuggler's Edge https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/smugglers-edge/ to steal from Monsters the special items....

If I was to do it in Rabbit or Rat form with the +20 Stealth bonus, would I get the FULL 120 Stealth that would grant a 5% chance to steal a Special Item with the Smuggler's Edge ?

Or does the Smuggler's Edge want all REAL skill with any skill on items or in animal forms not counting toward the BONUS to getting a chance to steal a Special item with it ?

@Mariah , do you have such an information ?
If not, could @Kyronix please give an answet on this ?

I would frankly hate to invest time and effort in such a template only to then find that the Smuggler's Edge needs all Stealth points to have to be real, none in items or animal form in order to get the max Bonus possible to steal a special item....

Thanks !

Comments

  • MariahMariah Posts: 1,223Moderator
    The page refers to 'actual stealing skill'. That is 'real' skill points
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,546
    edited February 24
    Mariah said:
    The page refers to 'actual stealing skill'. That is 'real' skill points
    Ouch, you just killed my entire Template Project with this clarification....

    It hurts....

    @Kyronix , can I hope that the UO Wiki might be somewhat incorrect and that the Smuggler's Edge does NOT rely necessarily on all real stealth skill for the bonus to steal a special item but that on items as well as in animal form work "just as well" to contribute to the stealing bonus ?

    Please......
  • Look into Shadow dancer leggings, burglars bandana, stealth cloak etc, go to uoguides skill bonus page there's a decent list of items with skill bonus (maybe wiki has one, dunno never bothered to look).


    As far as the temp is concerned, no idea what this temp is really for.... Looting dungeon chests and helping with tmaps?

    I'd probably dump Magery (use recall charges to get around, smokebombs for invisible, etc) add in skill items for a weapon skill because shadowstrike, ninjitsu and how this character is very defenseless, and offensively useless.  Hell, alchemy would be better.
  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 762
    My thief and my smuggler's edge user are two very different templates. My not inconsiderable collection of smuggler's lanterns were obtained with this template
    Anatomy GM
    Chivalry 70
    Healing GM
    Parry GM
    Stealing 120
    swordsmanship 120
    tactics. 110
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,546
    Look into Shadow dancer leggings, burglars bandana, stealth cloak etc, go to uoguides skill bonus page there's a decent list of items with skill bonus (maybe wiki has one, dunno never bothered to look).


    As far as the temp is concerned, no idea what this temp is really for.... Looting dungeon chests and helping with tmaps?

    I'd probably dump Magery (use recall charges to get around, smokebombs for invisible, etc) add in skill items for a weapon skill because shadowstrike, ninjitsu and how this character is very defenseless, and offensively useless.  Hell, alchemy would be better.
    Sorry, but I am planning a Template with no Artifacts worn.

    Only Craftables and Imbuable and, that I am aware of, skill points can only be imbued on Jewellery... or is there some Craftable Artifact which comes with skill points ?

    As regards Magery, I want to have Gating ability more then recall and, most importantly, to be able to 100% cast Invisibility which, according to https://uo.stratics.com/content/skills/magery.php for 7th Circle spells needs 106 Magery skill.....

    Sure, Smoke Bombs would save up some skill points which I could address elsewhere but Magery, but then I would have to rely on a consumable source while with the Invisibility spell and a 100% LRC suit I would have unlimited ability to get invisible...

    What do you mean by "Alchemy would be better" ? Can you please get more in detail ?

    Thanks.
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,546
    My thief and my smuggler's edge user are two very different templates. My not inconsiderable collection of smuggler's lanterns were obtained with this template
    Anatomy GM
    Chivalry 70
    Healing GM
    Parry GM
    Stealing 120
    swordsmanship 120
    tactics. 110
    @Petra_Fyde

    Question. Does the Smuggler's edge need an "actual" weapon skill (like your sowrdsmanship) in order to actually work ? And does it also need Tactics ?

    Or is it only Stealing that it needs ?

    What I have not clear is, whether you actually have to sustain an "endured" fight with a Monster in order to steal any of the specials, or whether it is a "quick" hit and run thing....

    Sneak up stealthing, hit the Monster with the Smuggler's Edge to steal the special item, and then go back into hiding for more Smuggler's Edge "hit and run" stealing attacks to get special items....

    Because, if an "endured" fight is necessary, then clearly the Template I am thinking of is totally useless since it would be incapable of sustaining any type of endured fight....
  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 762
    That is the template I've had most success with. You will need to hit the target until a successful stealing attempt is made (or until it dies without one)



    My collection.

    If you wish I will copy my smugglers edge to test center for you to try out some templates for yourself
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,546
    That is the template I've had most success with. You will need to hit the target until a successful stealing attempt is made (or until it dies without one)



    My collection.

    If you wish I will copy my smugglers edge to test center for you to try out some templates for yourself
    Well, it looks like I then need to rethink my Template, entirely, if it is necessary to have Tactics and a Melee Skill (Swords/Mace/Fencing) in order for the Smuggler's Edge to function....

    Not to mention, that from what you say it sounds to me that the Smuggler's Edge, rather then a "One Hit & Run" tool to steal Special Items that relies solely on Stealing, is an item that would require prolonged, extensive fighting....

    Lastly, I am not interested at all in the Lanterns but, rather, of the other special items that this tools permits to steal.... that is, Seed of Life, Mana Draught, Gem of Salvation, Balm of Strength, Balm of Wisdom, Balm of Swiftness, Balm of protection, Stone Skin Lotion and Life Shield Lotion.

    By the way, the UOWiki Page about Stealing from Monsters at https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/combat/pvm-player-versus-monster/stealing-from-monsters/ says :  

    So a thief with 120 skills stealing from a level 40 monster would have a 15% chance of obtaining a rare drop.
    While instead, the UOWiki Page for the Smuggler's Edge at https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/smugglers-edge/ says : 
    When wielded it gives a chance to steal an item when you hit a monster in Felucca dungeons or at Champion Spawns (ie the same locations as listed in the page Stealing From Monsters).  A chance to steal a special item will occur in 5% of these stealing attempts.

    When you succeed in stealing an item, and the special chance occurs, your stealing skill is temporarily set between 80.0 and 110.0(random). If your actual stealing skill is under 100.0 and temporary stealing skill is also under 100.0, your rare item stealing will fail due to insufficient skill.

    If, however your actual stealing skill is 100.0 or more, it serves as the minimum guaranteed skill, and the higher value is adopted. Actual stealing skill grants a bonus to the percentage chance of a rare item.100.0-109.9: +1%110.0-119.9: +2%110.0-119.9: +3%In addition to the existing special items listed in the page linked above, the following two rare items can be stolen only when using a smuggler’s edge.
    Smuggler’s Lantern:
    Smuggler’s Tool Box:
    so, which is which ?

    The Chance to steal a special item for someone having 120 Stealing (aside from whether it has to be all real skill or can be a "mix" of Stealth Real Skill + Stealth Skill on Items + Stealth Skill in Animal form...  @Kyronix , is it possible, please, to have a clarification on this ?) AND using a Smuggler's Edge is what ?

    The 5 % ? The 15 % ? The 5% + 15% = 20% ?

    To me, it is not clear at all....

    @Mariah do you perhaps have an answer to this also ?

    Thanks !
  • MariahMariah Posts: 1,223Moderator
    edited February 24
    You are looking at two different processes. Stealing with the smuggler's edge has a lower success chance than stealing with the skill alone. If you are only interested in the balms and lotions, I would not use the smuggler's edge, but instead go for a full thief template.

    You won't need snooping, unless you are wanting to steal in Exodus dungeon or from players.
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,546
    Mariah said:
    You are looking at two different processes. Stealing with the smuggler's edge has a lower success chance than stealing with the skill alone. If you are only interested in the balms and lotions, I would not use the smuggler's edge, but instead go for a full thief template.

    You won't need snooping, unless you are wanting to steal in Exodus dungeon or from players.
    I apologize @Mariah  for insisting but, at least to my understanding, if it was as you say it would not make any sense to me......

    Infact, the Smuggler's Edge UO Wiki Page at https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/smugglers-edge/ specifically mentions the stealing skill....
    If, however your actual stealing skill is 100.0 or more, it serves as the minimum guaranteed skill, and the higher value is adopted. Actual stealing skill grants a bonus to the percentage chance of a rare item.100.0-109.9: +1%110.0-119.9: +2%110.0-119.9: +3%
    So, as I understand it, it is NOT using the Smuggler's Edge and no Stealing Skill VS. using the Stealing skill ONLY to steal from monsters....

    But, rather, at least as I understand it at least from those 2 pages, it is using the Smuggler's Edge PLUS Stealing Skill VS. only using the Stealing Skill WITHOUT using also the Smuggler's Edge.

    But then, HOW COME that Stealing Skill PLUS Smuggler's Edge gives TOPS 5% chance at stealing one of the special items while, instead, using ONLY the Stealing Skill, without the Smuggler's Edge, a MAX of a 15% chance at stealing any of the special items ?

    To me is not clear at all.....

    Also, another thing not mentioned is whether LUCK, either from items worn or from the Statue/Sphynx or because in Felucca gives any additional Bonus at a greater chance to receive any of the special items from stealing to Monsters, whether only with the Stealing Skill or from the Stealing skill PLUS the use of the Smuggler's Edge.

    @Kyronix , please, would it be possible to have more light shed on this, considering also that the Smuggler's Edge involves expenditure of real money from the UOStore to obtain ?

    Thank you SO much.
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 593
    popps said:

    Would likely need orange petals to make it up with at least some defense against getting poisoned too easily... that is another reason to have Stealth all the way to 120, so as not to be revelead even if poisoned...

    Now, my # 1 question is, according to https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/ninjitsu/ if I always stay in Rabbit or Rat form I would get a bonus of +20 Stealth so my Stealthing skill would go to 120 ?

    Question # 3, if I go Ostard or Llama form (requirement =70 skill points), and thus I drop the 20 Stealth bonus thus dropping from 120 Stealth to 100 Stealth, how much is this drop in Stealth going to make my Template be likely to be revealed by either Monsters or Players ?
    I don't use the Edge but my namesake is a thief. With no resist. I play in protection with a full backpack at all times. Heals, cures, stam, apples, smoke bombs, str, bolas and a trap box.

    My suit is strictly imbued lrc, lmc and HP regin with the only "arti" being the bandana. 

    You'll hate stealth without ninja. White tiger form mastery is no fail at 90 skill with a bleed, dci boost and chance to evade. 

    Rework your whole template if you plan on doing a thief. You'll have a lot of fun.
  • ChrilleChrille Posts: 93
    edited February 24
    Poops

    "When wielded it gives a chance to steal an item when you hit a monster in Felucca dungeons or at Champion Spawns (ie the same locations as listed in the page Stealing From Monsters).  A chance to steal a special item will occur in 5% of these stealing attempts."

    When you using the smugglers edge you arent stealing, you have a chance at every hit to get "steal" an item. If you have stealing skill above gm you have a chance to get a rare item.

    When using stealing skills and stealing from a monster using skill you have a higher chance to get a rare item but not the special items from fighting the monsters using smugglers edge.

  • poppspopps Posts: 1,546
    Urge said:
    popps said:

    Would likely need orange petals to make it up with at least some defense against getting poisoned too easily... that is another reason to have Stealth all the way to 120, so as not to be revelead even if poisoned...

    Now, my # 1 question is, according to https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/ninjitsu/ if I always stay in Rabbit or Rat form I would get a bonus of +20 Stealth so my Stealthing skill would go to 120 ?

    Question # 3, if I go Ostard or Llama form (requirement =70 skill points), and thus I drop the 20 Stealth bonus thus dropping from 120 Stealth to 100 Stealth, how much is this drop in Stealth going to make my Template be likely to be revealed by either Monsters or Players ?
    I don't use the Edge but my namesake is a thief. With no resist. I play in protection with a full backpack at all times. Heals, cures, stam, apples, smoke bombs, str, bolas and a trap box.

    My suit is strictly imbued lrc, lmc and HP regin with the only "arti" being the bandana. 

    You'll hate stealth without ninja. White tiger form mastery is no fail at 90 skill with a bleed, dci boost and chance to evade. 

    Rework your whole template if you plan on doing a thief. You'll have a lot of fun.
    Thanks for the heads up, my goal is to make a thief, but no to steal from players, but only from Monsters....

    Until I understand exactly how that works (stealing from Monsters, that is...), what type of Stealing it accounts for (only real skill as Mariah indicates, or whether it also accounts for stealing skill from items and from animal forms....), whether or not using the Smuggler's Edge provides an additional bonus to get special items' drop as compared to only using the stealing skill, whether or not Luck might factor in to have higher chances to get a special item drop, I am "stuck" into not knowing how to best design the Template to be more effective and efficient in stealing from Monsters...

    My goal is to have the highest drop rate possible for special items when stealing from Monsters and, of course, to do it with a Template who would be able to survive the endeavour....
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,546
    edited February 24
    Chrille said:
    Poops

    "When wielded it gives a chance to steal an item when you hit a monster in Felucca dungeons or at Champion Spawns (ie the same locations as listed in the page Stealing From Monsters).  A chance to steal a special item will occur in 5% of these stealing attempts."

    When you using the smugglers edge you arent stealing, you have a chance at every hit to get "steal" an item. If you have stealing skill above gm you have a chance to get a rare item.

    When using stealing skills and stealing from a monster using skill you have a higher chance to get a rare item but not the special items from fighting the monsters using smugglers edge.

    When using stealing skills and stealing from a monster using skill you have a higher chance to get a rare item but not the special items from fighting the monsters using smugglers edge.

    I am afraid that you are wrong, at least from what it says at the UOWiki page for the Smuggler's Edge at https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/smugglers-edge/ ... : 

    In addition to the existing special items listed in the page linked above, the following two rare items can be stolen only when using a smuggler’s edge.
    And that Link is within the preceeding Paragraph at that same Page for the Smuggler's Edge description where it says : 
    When wielded it gives a chance to steal an item when you hit a monster in Felucca dungeons or at Champion Spawns (ie the same locations as listed in the page Stealing From Monsters).
    That is, https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/combat/pvm-player-versus-monster/stealing-from-monsters/

    So, as I understand it, the items from using ONLY the Stealing skill OR the Stealing skill PLUS the Smuggler's Edge are the same, with the ADDITION, for the Smuggler's Edge, to also be able to get as a steal, also a Smuggler’s Lantern or a Smuggler’s Tool Box.

    BUT, and this is what I have a hard time to find any logical reasoning, HOW COME, if one ONLY uses the Stealing skill they get a MAX +15% change to steal a special item, whereas if they use Stealing Skill AND also a Smuggler's Edge on top of that, the Max chance which one gets at stealing a special item would be a mere +5% ?

    How much sense does this make ?

    One spends real money at the UOStore to purchase a Smuggler's Edge to actually REDUCE their max chances possible at stealing a special item, from +15% DOWN to +5% ?

    Hallo ??

    Something here does not add up for me....
  • ChrilleChrille Posts: 93
    You cant steal with anything in your hand
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,546
    edited February 25
    Chrille said:
    You cant steal with anything in your hand
    ??
    It litterally says it there, at the UOWiki Smuggler's Edge page at https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/smugglers-edge/
    Smuggler’s edge is a spell channeling, use best weapon skill butcher knife with 30% swing speed increase and the unique property ‘Monster Stealing’ bought from Ultima Store at a cost of 400 sovereigns .
    NOTE : The "unique" property "Monster Stealing"....

    It is quite clear to me, from reading those 2 UO Wiki Links (one about the Smuggler's Edge and the other about Stealing from Monsters), that holding the Smuggler's Edge in hand DOES permit stealing thanking to its "unique" Monster Stealing property.... and doing it in conjunction with having ALSO the Stealing skill, provides "up to" a maximum of a +5% chance to steal a special item from a Monster...

    All this, from the UO Wiki Smuggler's Edge Link.

    Too bad that THEN, the Stealing to Monsters OTHER UO Wiki Link, says that stealing from Monsters WITHOUT the Smuggler's Edge, only using the Stealing Link, can give UP TO a maximum chance of +15% at getting a special item from stealing from a Monster....

    So, it looks like, at least to my viewing, a nonsense.... one spends real money on the UOStore to purchase a Smuggler's Edge to THEN see one 's own chances at getting a special item from stealing from a Monster go DOWN from up to +15% to a mere only maximum +5% chance at stealing a special item ?

    How can this make any sense if I may ask ?
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 593
    "When you HIT a monster". So every swing with the Edge is an attempt to "steal" and not by using the traditional stealing skill.


  • MariahMariah Posts: 1,223Moderator
    The stats in those pages are taken directly from the publish notes at the time.
    Actual stealing skill gives a bonus to stealing using the smuggler's edge, but using that is a fighting action. If you can't hit the monster, you can't steal from it. This is why smuggler's edge users have a fighting ability in their template.
    If you are using the actual stealing skill, with nothing in your hands, you have a higher chance of succeeding, but you can't get the special, rare items that are only possible when using the smuggler's edge.
    If you want the lotions and balms, but not the lanterns and tool kits, make a thief.
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,546
    Mariah said:
    The stats in those pages are taken directly from the publish notes at the time.
    Actual stealing skill gives a bonus to stealing using the smuggler's edge, but using that is a fighting action. If you can't hit the monster, you can't steal from it. This is why smuggler's edge users have a fighting ability in their template.
    If you are using the actual stealing skill, with nothing in your hands, you have a higher chance of succeeding, but you can't get the special, rare items that are only possible when using the smuggler's edge.
    If you want the lotions and balms, but not the lanterns and tool kits, make a thief.
    I understand that @Mariah , what is confusing me, is that the UOWiki page (https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/smugglers-edge/)  indicates as the success chance for using the Smuggler's Edge PLUS the Stealing Skill as the following ...
    If, however your actual stealing skill is 100.0 or more, it serves as the minimum guaranteed skill, and the higher value is adopted. Actual stealing skill grants a bonus to the percentage chance of a rare item.
    • 100.0-109.9: +1%
    • 110.0-119.9: +2%
    • 110.0-119.9: +3%
    I assume (but am not sure...), that were it is mentioned in that same Wiki Page
    A chance to steal a special item will occur in 5% of these stealing attempts.
    Refers to the scenario where the Template might be using the Smuggler's Edge PLUS 120.0 Stealing skill.... this, because the +3% works from 110.0-119.9 so if not +5%, it is not clear what the bonus would be to use the Smuggler's Edge PLUS 120.0 Stealing Skill...

    OF COURSE that, since the Stealing from Monsters UO Wiki page (https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/combat/pvm-player-versus-monster/stealing-from-monsters/) indicates : 
    So a thief with 120 skills stealing from a level 40 monster would have a 15% chance of obtaining a rare drop.
    A player not interested in either a Smuggler’s Lantern or Toolbox would be THREE times more motivated (+15% vs, +5% at a special item steal) to simple steal from a Monster and not spend 400 Sovereigns to purchase a Smuggler's Edge....

    The problem that I have, is that I do NOT understand the logic of it....

    Why, is my perplexity, make the effort to Design, Create and spend time to make available a Smuggler's Edge but then, NOT make it appealing to players to actually want to spend their money on it to purchase it by enhancing significately their chance at a special drop as compared to Stealing from Monsters WITHOUT using the Smuggler's Edge ?

    Sure, those players who want to get a Smuggler’s Lantern or Toolbox will necessarily have to use a Smuggler's Edge BUT, this limits the number of potential buyers since, besides these players, there is also "other" player who, instead, are not interested in Smuggler’s Lanterns or Toolboxes so WHY would these players want to spend real money of a Smuggler's Edge when it would actually LOWER their chance at a special drop from a maximum of +15% from using solely the 120.0 Stealing Skill on a level 40 Monster down to (perhaps...?) a MAX of +5% chance at a special drop from using a Smuggler's Edge IN CONJUNCTION with 120.0 Stealing skill ?

    I mean, am I the only one here who is perplexed by this ?

    Does it make sense for any of you guys that NO Smuggler's Edge (which cost real money to buy) provides at 120.0 Stealing Skill on a Monster of Level 40 a change to steal a special item of +15% but then, SPENDING real money to buy a Smuggler's Edge to be used together with the Stealing Skill this chance DROPS down to +5% (One Third....) assuming that this is the percentage from using the Smuggler's Edge + 120.0 Stealing since with 119.9 Stealing Skill + the Smuggler's Edge the UOWiki page indicates the percentage at a steal of a special item as +3% ....... ??

    I am sorry, but to me it does not make sense and does not look like an effective way to promote in players the sale of this particular UOStore item....
  • ChrilleChrille Posts: 93
    Just that with the smugglers edge you get many more stealing attempts, with 60 stamina you will swing every 1,25s compared to stealing timer at 10s.

    Not counting the hide timer and such things when you get revealed from your stealing attempt.

    If you hit 50% you still have 4 stealing attempts at 5% while stealing is one at 15%. So your change to get an item is 20% using the smugglers edge compared to stealing at 15%.
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,546
    Chrille said:
    Just that with the smugglers edge you get many more stealing attempts, with 60 stamina you will swing every 1,25s compared to stealing timer at 10s.

    Not counting the hide timer and such things when you get revealed from your stealing attempt.

    If you hit 50% you still have 4 stealing attempts at 5% while stealing is one at 15%. So your change to get an item is 20% using the smugglers edge compared to stealing at 15%.
    Why only 1 stealing attempt ?

    Isn't it possible to use the Stealing Skill with the +15% chance at a steal (no Smuggler's Edge used) multiple times on the same one Monster until one gets the wanted special item ?

    Furthermore, if one is more interested in getting the special stealables from Monsters Seed of Life, Mana Draught, Gem of Salvation, Balm of Strength, Balm of Wisdom, Balm of Swiftness, Balm of protection, Stone Skin Lotion and Life Shield Lotion and NOT also the Smuggler’s Lantern or Toolbox (which I understand only the use of the Smuggler's Edge can give), using the Stealing Skill WITHOUT the Smuggler's Edge would not only benefit from a +15% higher percentage to steal one of these special items but also, the RNG wold not have to factor is also the Smuggler’s Lantern or Toolbox thus further giving a higher chance at getting any of the Seed of Life, Mana Draught, Gem of Salvation, Balm of Strength, Balm of Wisdom, Balm of Swiftness, Balm of protection, Stone Skin Lotion and Life Shield Lotion.

    All this, to say that this leaves me totally puzzled as it does not look like a good promotion for the sales of the Smuggler's Edge at the UOStore....

    Unless I am missing to understand something, it looks quite clear to me that, unless one was to be interested in getting a Smuggler’s Lantern or Toolbox which requires necessarily the use of the Smuggler's Edge, not only there is no point in purchasing from the UOStore this particular item if one is only interested in getting Seed of Life, Mana Draught, Gem of Salvation, Balm of Strength, Balm of Wisdom, Balm of Swiftness, Balm of protection, Stone Skin Lotion and Life Shield Lotion, but purchasing and using a Smuggler's Edge to get these particular special stealables from Monsters would actually be detrimental..... it would make it LESS LIKELY, if understood the mechanics correctly, to be able to steal any of these stealables from Monsters as compared to only using the Stealable Skill.

    And this, as I said, makes NO SENSE to me because it makes the UOStore purchaseable item Smuggler's Edge, LESS appealing to potential buyers thus reducing the possible revenues to the benefit of UO from the sales of this item.

    Am I wrong in my thinking, @Mesanna , @Bleak , @Kyronix , because there is something which I am missing to consider about the Smuggler's Edge and the mechanics involved with Stealing from Monsters in which case, I'd LOVE to hear from you a clarification about how this item as well as the entire stealing from Monsters work, or am I right, and in such case, for a player wanting to only get the special stealables from Monsters Seed of Life, Mana Draught, Gem of Salvation, Balm of Strength, Balm of Wisdom, Balm of Swiftness, Balm of protection, Stone Skin Lotion and Life Shield Lotion there is NO POINT or reason to spend money to purchase the Smuggler's Edge ?

    My personal point of view is that, the Smuggler's Edge, involving the expenditure of real money for its purchase, should provide a significant higher chance at stealing any of the special stealable items from Monsters when used together with the Stealing skill, as compared to when only using the Stealing skill without the concurrant use of the Smuggler's Edge.

    In such a case, this, to my opinion, would promote the sales of the Smuggler's Edge interested in more likely getting those items thus bettering the Revenues for Ultima Online.

    For example, if a 120.0 Stealing player stealing from level 40 Monsters has a chance of +15% to steal one of the Special items, the mechanics involving to use of also the Smuggler's Edge (which cost real money to purchase) in conjunction with the same 120.0 Stealing skill on a level 40 Monster, should grant at least DOUBLE that chance to pull a steal of a special item or, for example, a +30% chance at a steal of a special item.
  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 762
    I have already offered to copy my smugglers edge to test center for you to try it out. Let me know if you'd like me to do so.
    It basically boils down to, if you want lanterns get the smuggler's edge, if you only want balms make a thief.
    The devs are rather busy doing what devs do, developing the game. I seriously doubt any of them have time to trawl through the minutiae of the coding looking for an answer that matters only to one player.  You're supposed to play the game not analyse the hell out of every tiny aspect of it.
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,546
    edited February 26
    I have already offered to copy my smugglers edge to test center for you to try it out. Let me know if you'd like me to do so.
    It basically boils down to, if you want lanterns get the smuggler's edge, if you only want balms make a thief.
    The devs are rather busy doing what devs do, developing the game. I seriously doubt any of them have time to trawl through the minutiae of the coding looking for an answer that matters only to one player.  You're supposed to play the game not analyse the hell out of every tiny aspect of it.
    Understand it, what I do not understand, is the logic of the functionality of the Smuggler's Edge.

    I mean, it is a purchaseable item on the UOStore thus, I need to imagine, created to help increase the Revenues for Ultima Online.

    Unless I am missing or misunderstanding anything about it and how it, as well as Stealing from Monsters work, if what I have been told about it holds true, at least for me it is not worth the Sovereigns it costs....

    Why should I spend my money on an item which, instead of "increasing" my chances at getting a special stealable item from Monster, actually would reduce it ?

    It looks to me like hammering my own feet.... I spend real money to actually WORSEN my chances to get a special item as stealable from Monsters ?

    Makes no sense to me....

    As I said, I am not after the Smuggler's Lanterns or Toolboxes, but, rather, after the Seed of Life, Mana Draught, Gem of Salvation, Balm of Strength, Balm of Wisdom, Balm of Swiftness, Balm of protection, Stone Skin Lotion and Life Shield Lotion.

    Unless I am failing to understand something, it looks to me that spending my money on a purchase for the Smuggler's Edge, not only would do me no better good in getting these items I am after, but could possibly even reduce my chances at getting them as compared to only using the Stealing skill...

    So, thanks for your offer but, unless a clarification will come from a Developer about how the Smuggler's Edge works as well as how Stealing from Monsters work, at this one time I think I will pass on the idea of purchasing a Smuggler's Edge and use my money elsewhere....
  • ChrilleChrille Posts: 93
    Over time the smugglers edge already is more then twice as good as stealing.

    At 15% chance it takes 6,7 tries to get an item, with stealing timer at 10s it takes 67 seconds if you can stand next the the monster you are trying to steal from.

    At 5% chance it takes 20 tries to get an item, if swinging at max speed you do 20 tries in 25 seconds if hitting all the time.

    67/25 is 2,68 so the edge is 2,7 times better then using stealing skill.

    This is just an example since I dont think you will be able to hit every time nor will you be able with your template to stand next to the monster doing nothing but trying to steal every 10s.

    Just realised after double checking the numbers that the fame bonus is counted for using stealing skill but not while using smugglers edge so the numbers for the edge is twice as good, around 5 times better than using stealing skill itself.

    All numbers assuming 120 stealing and 30k fame monsters
  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 762
    This is why people buy the smuggler's edge. It is not bought for getting balms and lotions


  • poppspopps Posts: 1,546
    Going back to the Topic of a Stealth and Ninja Template, I read from the UOWiki on Masteries https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/skill-masteries/ that for the "SHADOW" Mastery for Ninjitsu : 
    Shadow
    Makes the ninja more difficult to become unhidden from taking damage and being revealed based on ninjitsu skill, stealth skill, and mastery level. Upkeep costs 10 mana and duration is determined by ninjitsu and stealth skill.
    Does anyone know if a calculator is available somewhere to determine this "difficult to become unhidden from taking damage and being revealed" would be considered the Ninjitsu skill, stealth skill and mastery level ?

    Also, are we talking about "REAL" skill points or also modified from +skill items would still be good to increase the difficulty to become unhidden ?

    The reason for that, is that I am trying to figure out how to build such a Template, where to put real skill points and where +skill jewellery, and how high Ninjitsu I should get...

    Thanks !
  • popps said:
    Going back to the Topic of a Stealth and Ninja Template, I read from the UOWiki on Masteries https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/skill-masteries/ that for the "SHADOW" Mastery for Ninjitsu : 
    Shadow
    Makes the ninja more difficult to become unhidden from taking damage and being revealed based on ninjitsu skill, stealth skill, and mastery level. Upkeep costs 10 mana and duration is determined by ninjitsu and stealth skill.
    Does anyone know if a calculator is available somewhere to determine this "difficult to become unhidden from taking damage and being revealed" would be considered the Ninjitsu skill, stealth skill and mastery level ?

    Also, are we talking about "REAL" skill points or also modified from +skill items would still be good to increase the difficulty to become unhidden ?

    The reason for that, is that I am trying to figure out how to build such a Template, where to put real skill points and where +skill jewellery, and how high Ninjitsu I should get...

    Thanks !
    The masteries only apply to real skill points.  There is a good thread on the other site where a brave fellow did some thoroughly good testing on the masteries.  You'll find the numbers there.
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