Lets Discuss and fix PvP for Everyone Now

The_Higgs_1

Now that we have a forums that the devs see more often, lets try to get all pvp related issues fixed to make it better then it has ever been.   Ill start by suggesting splintering should not proc with any specials and should also not be used via mage weapon.

SwordofExcalibur

According to the veterans, PVP is balanced at the moment.

PapaSmurf

Its all balanced and fine if you play a mage, try play an archer or dexxer in fel and you will have a different opinion

SwordofExcalibur

From what I've heard and read, dexxer's are king atm, especially Ninjas  Ever since tamer's were nerfed recently, the PVP community was happy.

I guess one could say that PVP Tamers were brought to heel.

The_Higgs_1

Yea archers got hit hard with the lower AI cap for no reason and tamers got hit too hard as well.  Tamers are useless now in pvp, at least with archery you can still use a second wep skill to help you out. 

Lynzi

I play only ParryMage, and believe adding Parry to the list of removing "Focused Mage" was really unfair considering it already takes away a lot of Stats to have but I still think 1vs1 ParryWrestleMage always will come out on TOP of any temp if you know what you are doing and are much more exciting to fight with once you get the hang of it.

Archers got hit hard for a reason. I mean if you see all the mana and what not you can get from Legendary armor for specials it is unbalanced in what a Dexxer can do I guess in that fact it is King. As for Tamers, I can say I'm not alone in thinking they did not belong in PvP anyway, if you need to fight with a monster by your side then maybe you should be fighting monsters...  

Cookie

I rarely see mages in pvp anymore, and I pvp every night, and get involved in large scale battles.

When players who have played mages for 20 years - like me, and the rest I know, start playing EC based nox/chiv/deathstriker dexxers, and everyone is playing one of these, it's not balanced.

What is not balanced? The sheer amount of stats dexxers can get, combined with the sheer amount of specials they can chain, and especially lethal poison which is very hard for mages to get rid of in a fast paced battle whilst being dumped on. Splinter, mortal, shield bash, dismount (huge issue), lethal poison, etc. The nerf to parry did not help, and even with parry, mages lose too many other stats and don't have enough mana to cast anything useful for any length of time.

PvP does have numbers at the moment, because anyone can grab a dexxer and play with no skill, so it is appealing to the unskilled masses, just run, dismount and randomly gank stuff, it's easy and boring.

This will have a limited timeframe in my opinion, because I'm already bored, and thinking of quitting pvp again for a break, and I know others who feel the same.

SirAJ

The pet nerfs were way overdone. Need to really increase pet damage in pvp if you want the tamers to participate.

Donnie_Darkscreen

I see plenty of mages on Atl, I would say that it is pretty much a 50/50 split between dexxer and mages.

With the power creep of items it has caused issues that should have been caught many years ago.  The accessibility or legendary armor allowing for every stat possible to be achieved has made PvP boring and dull.

Archers would not have needed to be nerfed if they didn't have endless mana and were doing 30+ dmg moving shots. 

Parry needed a nerf due to having the best offense and best defense in game.  40sdi pary mages were way too strong.  They take little effort to play and require only a handful of macros.

Tamers have been in PvP forever and deserve to be in PvP.  They have huge sacrifices depending on the hybrid template they go with.  1v1 of course they are one of the strongest templates, but there are counters.  A simple Para field, paralyze the pet, mass sleep etc all make the pets useless for enough time to kill the player who now has 200+ skill points negated.  Tamers need to be reworked and brought back to being a part of pvp.

Splinter should never have been put in game to begin with.  it's more useful than most specials and require zero mana or skill to use.  I would rather see them tie splinter into bushido or ninja or rework a weapon that is under utilized and add it to their special moves

Masteries need to be looked at again cause many are not utilized.

What pvp desperately needs is content, VvV was not worth the exchange of factions and needs to be re-thought and re-worked entirely. 

Mervyn

probably right, it probably shouldn't proc with any special.

The_Higgs_1

I also think the reintroduction of corpseskin needs to be looked at as well.  It was supposed to be for focus necromancers only and needed real skill to obtain max usage.  Instead people can play necro-mages again with lots of skill increase and completely remove any reason to cast curse at all.  I believe if its not pure corpseskin it should only reduce fire and poison to 60 like curse does, thus giving mages a reason to cast curse again.   I also believe pvp has gotten really dull due to massive leap in gear.   I think deadly poison should be slightly easier to cure and also put a cooldown on cure potions.   The consumables is completely out of hand in UO any more.  Shatters need to have the interruption removed from them.  Trapped boxes also need to do a minimum of  more damage to the players so that it isn't just spam the button, like 20-25 per use.  The raise in SDI for being pure in anything was a bad idea, there is no reason to up the speed damage being put out in the game, the HP cap hasn't changed so why should the rate of damage be higher.  I could go on and on about issues with todays pvp.

CovenantX

Remove Casting Focus from pvp.
Remove Poison "Immunity" procs from pvp.

Reduce Parry chances by 50% if Parry is being used in conjunction with Wrestling or Anatomy.   Remove the Dexterity Requirement for Parry skill, because of their ability to have a hand free to chug potions without disarming anything and losing their extra defense like every single other weapon skill + parry.

Remove the penalty from Bushido that causes you to lose parry chance while holding a shield.

Necromancy > Corpse Skin should only reduce the cap resistances of a target if the caster is a "focus Necromancer" - Mages primary damaging spells deal fire damage, there's little to no reason to use curse if you have the ability to use corpse skin.

Also Necromancy > Corpse skin resistance reduction needs to be based on "real skill" as it says in the patch notes, currently it works with modified skill as well.

add a ~4-6 second cooldown on Cure Potions & increase the chances they have to cure vs all levels of poison.

Pet vs player damage should be a % reduction based on the amount of followers the tamer has under his/her control.  -8% damage reduction per follower, capping at -40% with 5/5 followers.
This way it'll treat lower follower pets more fairly, as those pets would likely have lower damage output, instead of only single 5/5 slot pets are useful in pvp.

North_LS

i was under the impression mages were kinda underpowered in pvp these days. im recently back after 15 years, and still have two pvp mages set up as scribe and a hiding / holy light spammer. good to hear they might not be useless afterall.

Mervyn

CovenantX said:

Remove Casting Focus from pvp.
Remove Poison "Immunity" procs from pvp.

Reduce Parry chances by 50% if Parry is being used in conjunction with Wrestling or Anatomy.   Remove the Dexterity Requirement for Parry skill, because of their ability to have a hand free to chug potions without disarming anything and losing their extra defense like every single other weapon skill + parry.

Remove the penalty from Bushido that causes you to lose parry chance while holding a shield.

Necromancy > Corpse Skin should only reduce the cap resistances of a target if the caster is a "focus Necromancer" - Mages primary damaging spells deal fire damage, there's little to no reason to use curse if you have the ability to use corpse skin.

Also Necromancy > Corpse skin resistance reduction needs to be based on "real skill" as it says in the patch notes, currently it works with modified skill as well.

add a ~4-6 second cooldown on Cure Potions & increase the chances they have to cure vs all levels of poison.

Pet vs player damage should be a % reduction based on the amount of followers the tamer has under his/her control.  -8% damage reduction per follower, capping at -40% with 5/5 followers.
This way it'll treat lower follower pets more fairly, as those pets would likely have lower damage output, instead of only single 5/5 slot pets are useful in pvp.

I almost never disagree with covenant

But casting poison and then harm with auto target last super fast is not skillful. The natural poison resistance gives a break from this.

I also quite like the casting focus now, adds an element of uncertainty which can be interesting.

with regards to cure potion cooldowns, perhaps a very short one.

Corpse skin.. don't you already need quite a lot of both necro and spirit speak to do -15? also, so many people use refined armour to have +5 fire and can eat fish fire pies, corpse skin is not a big deal now. Maybe they should just make it do -13 fire and poison resist.

The parrying stuff, I don't really want them to make the game mechanics any more complex than it already is. Removing the dexterity requirement for parry would indeed simplify the mechanics, then again so would putting "dexterity requirement 80" on a shield...

As for pets in pvp.. I really don't know what to suggest, the way they made the pets have 1000 hp with 80 resists,.. Okay they don't deal a lot of damage but boy, you have 0 chance of killing someone's pet on a pvp char. I don't know what the answer is.

Mervyn

I think pvp is balanced at the moment, There are so many templates in use at the moment, i don't really want them to change anything, just fix the discrepancies between the clients.

SwordofExcalibur

Mervyn said:

CovenantX said:

Remove Casting Focus from pvp.
Remove Poison "Immunity" procs from pvp.

Reduce Parry chances by 50% if Parry is being used in conjunction with Wrestling or Anatomy.   Remove the Dexterity Requirement for Parry skill, because of their ability to have a hand free to chug potions without disarming anything and losing their extra defense like every single other weapon skill + parry.

Remove the penalty from Bushido that causes you to lose parry chance while holding a shield.

Necromancy > Corpse Skin should only reduce the cap resistances of a target if the caster is a "focus Necromancer" - Mages primary damaging spells deal fire damage, there's little to no reason to use curse if you have the ability to use corpse skin.

Also Necromancy > Corpse skin resistance reduction needs to be based on "real skill" as it says in the patch notes, currently it works with modified skill as well.

add a ~4-6 second cooldown on Cure Potions & increase the chances they have to cure vs all levels of poison.

Pet vs player damage should be a % reduction based on the amount of followers the tamer has under his/her control.  -8% damage reduction per follower, capping at -40% with 5/5 followers.
This way it'll treat lower follower pets more fairly, as those pets would likely have lower damage output, instead of only single 5/5 slot pets are useful in pvp.

I almost never disagree with covenant

But casting poison and then harm with auto target last super fast is not skillful. The natural poison resistance gives a break from this.

I also quite like the casting focus now, adds an element of uncertainty which can be interesting.

with regards to cure potion cooldowns, perhaps a very short one.

Corpse skin.. don't you already need quite a lot of both necro and spirit speak to do -15? also, so many people use refined armour to have +5 fire and can eat fish fire pies, corpse skin is not a big deal now. Maybe they should just make it do -13 fire and poison resist.

The parrying stuff, I don't really want them to make the game mechanics any more complex than it already is. Removing the dexterity requirement for parry would indeed simplify the mechanics, then again so would putting "dexterity requirement 80" on a shield...

As for pets in pvp.. I really don't know what to suggest, the way they made the pets have 1000 hp with 80 resists,.. Okay they don't deal a lot of damage but boy, you have 0 chance of killing someone's pet on a pvp char. I don't know what the answer is.

Isn’t it just pretty simple to Paralyze or sleep a pet?  Also, isn’t it pretty simple for a dexxer to just rip through a non-parry-Mage?

What usual temps do tamers trend with?

Asking for a friend.

Davo

sorry cant compete anymore with pvm chars since changes and nerfs. I had most fun when there was no factions or vvv. gl

Oreogl

CovenantX said:

Remove Casting Focus from pvp.
Remove Poison "Immunity" procs from pvp.

Reduce Parry chances by 50% if Parry is being used in conjunction with Wrestling or Anatomy.   Remove the Dexterity Requirement for Parry skill, because of their ability to have a hand free to chug potions without disarming anything and losing their extra defense like every single other weapon skill + parry.

Remove the penalty from Bushido that causes you to lose parry chance while holding a shield.

Necromancy > Corpse Skin should only reduce the cap resistances of a target if the caster is a "focus Necromancer" - Mages primary damaging spells deal fire damage, there's little to no reason to use curse if you have the ability to use corpse skin.

Also Necromancy > Corpse skin resistance reduction needs to be based on "real skill" as it says in the patch notes, currently it works with modified skill as well.

add a ~4-6 second cooldown on Cure Potions & increase the chances they have to cure vs all levels of poison.

Pet vs player damage should be a % reduction based on the amount of followers the tamer has under his/her control.  -8% damage reduction per follower, capping at -40% with 5/5 followers.
This way it'll treat lower follower pets more fairly, as those pets would likely have lower damage output, instead of only single 5/5 slot pets are useful in pvp.

I did the math on this a while back and have really never agreed with it mostly since the math didn't support the argument of nerfing parry mages even more.

pets shouldn't really have a place in pvp, but that's a personal bias.

Id have to catch up with any other changes to make a intelligible argument about the rest.

But if you want to kill mages more, nerf parry.

Syncros

SwordofExcalibur said:

What usual temps do tamers trend with?

Asking for a friend.

From what I read lately it doesnt matter much but just hope they d/c and maybe then you will kill them before they get back on.  Maybe.

Cetric

I believe for the most part PvP is very balanced right now.  Some decisions could be made in regards to splinter, I could see an ever so slightly boost to pets, but I'm talking extremely slight like 30% wasn't enough, 50% was alot, maybe bump it to 45% and that should set pet dmg equal to what it was pretty pet patch+new abilities.  Pets are still nasty in the right hands now, just the tamer temps lack survivability so they don't get used as much.  

Corpse skin does involve REAL non bonus 200 skill investment so ithink that's fair, it's hard to make a Necro around that and with refinements and all that, it's counterable.  

The EC vs cc points are good points I'd be interested in seeing addressed, as well as the invis teleport items but I think those are scheduled to be revised.

One thing I think would be nice is addressing disarm again.  Making it so dropping ur weapon isn't 100% hit, but takes your weap skill into a sort of an anat+eval defensive blocking calculation.  Disarm really shouldn't be an offensive ability like it is, but I know it's a fairly touchy adjustment.

Thoronnar

I don't understand people saying "pets should have no place in PVP". Every single fighting template should have a place in P.V.P. I like to build templates that run in both PVM and PVP by just switching armors and a skill or two through soulstone.

I hate that UO became PVP or PVM game years ago. And now they are pushing even more for it by taking tamers out of PVP... it makes the game dull. And VvV sucks, there is not even a point of having PKs anymore. PvP is just a bunch a people running around and killing each other with no purpose...

I personally would like to see even miners being able to fight on PvP, more reasons to live and play in felucca. Make PvP more interesting and colorful.

Max_Blackoak

there are PvP tamer builds but they are obviously different from PvM tamer builds both the char template and the pet template. Some are ok for both.

also come to Siege and PvP will have a purpose and meaning (no insurance, all fel)

Thoronnar

What kills PvP is not only that VvV is meaningless, but the fact that 99% of the game is done in safe areas. It makes the game not feel real. A LOT of the end game material should be move to Felucca ruleset. Most of the game should still be Trammel ruleset, but there need to be more incentives for people to travel to PvP areas. The thrill, the risk, the fact that you might get killed by other players makes the game more real and interesting. There will be more hybrid (PvM - PvP) guilds, more brotherhood between players, more life to the game.

I believe many players who say don't like PvP will actually get more involved, and even create a PvP character for revenge, or join a hybrid guild to be protected. I understand there are many players who DO NOT like PvP and just don't want to be a part of it. That's why you leave most content to be trammel ruleset, and you can still play the game 100% PvM. But as it sits right now, there is very little point to go to felucca. I barely PvP anymore, because it is monotonous and not that much fun, and because spending my time with my tamer in safe lands is more practical.

Wanna fix PvP? make more of the game Felucca ruleset. I think it should be more like:

70% Trammel ruleset.
30% Fel ruleset.

Champs and VvV is not enough. I personally live in Felucca because of the nostalgia of UO before there was trammel. I fish, mine, etc.. in fel. It doesn't have to be siege style, or classic uo style, but we should be able to find a middle ground.

The_Higgs_1

I say we just take Ilhsnear and make it felucca ruleset.  That way there is no spawns in trammel except for turtle and malas ones.  That should make the Bilbos of the world leave our game.

Syncros

The_Higgs_1 said:

I say we just take Ilhsnear and make it felucca ruleset.  That way there is no spawns in trammel except for turtle and malas ones.  That should make the Bilbos of the world leave our game.

I find it funny that some think pvp is killing some player that is attacking a monster.  PvP is Player vs Player not Player vs Player vs Monster.    

PvM has way more players then PvP so why give more area's to PvP players when they dont even use Felucca to its fullest.  

The Devs need to make like what other games have, Battle grounds and have players queque up and send them there then we will get real PvP and not some players that want to get easy loot/kills. 

Max_Blackoak

I personally don't like the battlegrounds concept, but do to other shards what you like as long as you leave Siege Perilous alone. All fel ruleset, no insurance - I wouldn't want it any other way, ever!

Mervyn

I have given up trying to move content from trammel to fel. I couldn’t even get them to allow reds in heartwood fel. The trammel players are diehard and very aggressively trammel players.

Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s. Let them keep it, and concentrate on campaigning for a fel only shard with insurance (non transferable)

Then we could attract more subscribers and the trammel trollers will not be able to ruin our beautiful game.

Bilbo

Thoronnar said:

Wanna fix PvP? make more of the game Felucca ruleset. I think it should be more like:

70% Trammel ruleset.
30% Fel ruleset.

So %30 of each shard would be as dead as Fel is now.  People whine about the low population shards and Fel is the worse part and you want more.  The main reason Tram is not as populated as it use to be is #1 less people and #2 what people that are there are spread out to much IE to much land and adding more to Fel will do the same.

Bilbo

Mervyn said:

I have given up trying to move content from trammel to fel. I couldn’t even get them to allow reds in heartwood fel. The trammel players are diehard and very aggressively trammel players.

Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s. Let them keep it, and concentrate on campaigning for a fel only shard with insurance (non transferable)

Then we could attract more subscribers and the trammel trollers will not be able to ruin our beautiful game.

You have a Fel rule set with insurance on every Prodo Shard and all of them are dead and you think a SP like shard with ins. is going to bring in more subs, now that is funny.

Mervyn

Let us say for arguments sake, that they spend say 5 mins making a fel shard. And forego fixing an arbitrary palemino horse bug that misk has said they will fix (which affects absolutely nobody).

Let us say that the shard is dead and brings no new subscribers at all. What harm has it done to you?

What if I am correct and that 5 mins leads to double the subscribers or more? 


You may say oh well it’s unlikely to bring in more subscribers, how many more subscriptions will we get from uo fixing an arbitrary palemino horse bug?

it is a risk free investment in 5 mins to make a new shard.

The fact that diehard trammel trollers like yourself try and Vito the idea is only because you’re scared that people like me are correct, and nobody will care about your precious event items on normal prodo shards as the big money will be on the new fel shard. 

Why else would you comment? If it would not affect you at all surely?

Bilbo

TY TY TY I needed a good laugh.