Bring Back Static Resources

Drowy

With the next upcoming Artisan Festival, I would like to request for static resources once again.

The Artisan Festival is a lot of work to build up the Christmas Trees and static resources would be a big help, also for the Community Collections at the Britain Library and the Vesper Museum.

And it should always be the best way to gather those resources by taking a pick axe or axe and go out and mine or lumber, not plundering ships, doing trade routes or from rewards from encounters.

Please give us honest lumberer and miner some real usefulness again. @Kyronix @Mesanna @Bleak

Tyrath

 They should revert it back to how it was but seem very resistant to do so.  They have almost made mining and Lumber jacking as useful as taste ID and Camping.

Kyronix

There is an item in our backlog to revisit this - I can say that while we don't have the bandwidth to make this change in the coming publish it is a change worth having a conversation about.

Right now there is a random chance to get a resource type in any given harvesting attempt based on your skill.  That chance is augmented by a few items, 

• Using an item, like a gargoyle pickaxe to "bump the level"
• Using a resource map to guarantee the resource quality

Beyond that - it's random.

Now consider what it was like prior to this change (which goes back to 2007).  Resources of any given quality could be found in static locations.  This resulted in a situation where "the early bird would catch the worm" as the highest end resources were dominated by those who could devote the most time to harvesting them at that location.  This would effectively exhaust the supply without anyone else being able to get those locations.  Given the ease at which a player can move around to each of these locations the likelihood of a store being exhausted is only increased.

Now consider - is this a situation that would make it easier or harder to acquire the higher level resources you are targeting? 

I'll be interested to see what perspectives are shared here!

Merus

Kyronix said:

There is an item in our backlog to revisit this - I can say that while we don't have the bandwidth to make this change in the coming publish it is a change worth having a conversation about.

Right now there is a random chance to get a resource type in any given harvesting attempt based on your skill.  That chance is augmented by a few items, 

• Using an item, like a gargoyle pickaxe to "bump the level"
• Using a resource map to guarantee the resource quality

Beyond that - it's random.

Now consider what it was like prior to this change (which goes back to 2007).  Resources of any given quality could be found in static locations.  This resulted in a situation where "the early bird would catch the worm" as the highest end resources were dominated by those who could devote the most time to harvesting them at that location.  This would effectively exhaust the supply without anyone else being able to get those locations.  Given the ease at which a player can move around to each of these locations the likelihood of a store being exhausted is only increased.

Now consider - is this a situation that would make it easier or harder to acquire the higher level resources you are targeting? 

I'll be interested to see what perspectives are shared here!

Make resources static, make resource checks character specific and increase the replenish timer.

Each character will be able to harvest from a special tree or vein, but will have to wait longer (perhaps once per day) to reuse the spot.  How much an individual can harvest would be tied to how many locations they are willing to look for.

Resources would be fairly reliable to harvest without scripters or other players being able to hog them.  Players who wish to mass BODs could stockpile, but the occasional crafter could harvest as needed or buy from another player.

Right now scripters rely on the randomness, but also the short replenish timer, to harvest mass amounts of resources.  It would be much more time consuming for them to mark enough locations to support a script that would run for a full day.

At the end of the day this would put the average player on more equal footing with a scripter by increasing the availability to players.

Victim_Of_Siege

I get that the scripters have the best opportunity to get the node, but i always got enough of the higher level wood/ore to suit me before the change, i would harvest plenty of the stuff to do bods or make suits.  after the change i had to buy from the scripters to do my business.  of course now i can get more high end wood/metal killing merchants/pirates versus mining/lumber jacking, which doesn't seem right to me.  I feel we should get at least the same from normal harvesting as fighting on the high seas. so i would like to see something done to make it better, but i am not sure what that would be other than reverting to what it was before. I'll drin,  err think on it a while.

Drowy

Kyronix said:

There is an item in our backlog to revisit this - I can say that while we don't have the bandwidth to make this change in the coming publish it is a change worth having a conversation about.

Right now there is a random chance to get a resource type in any given harvesting attempt based on your skill.  That chance is augmented by a few items, 

• Using an item, like a gargoyle pickaxe to "bump the level"
• Using a resource map to guarantee the resource quality

Beyond that - it's random.

Now consider what it was like prior to this change (which goes back to 2007).  Resources of any given quality could be found in static locations.  This resulted in a situation where "the early bird would catch the worm" as the highest end resources were dominated by those who could devote the most time to harvesting them at that location.  This would effectively exhaust the supply without anyone else being able to get those locations.  Given the ease at which a player can move around to each of these locations the likelihood of a store being exhausted is only increased.

Now consider - is this a situation that would make it easier or harder to acquire the higher level resources you are targeting? 

I'll be interested to see what perspectives are shared here!

Well I was actively mining and lumbering in the old days and I always got quite alot of the high end resources I was aiming for. This was with the player base being way much higher and more scripters on our shard. I dont think there will be any problem with lumber locations being exhausted, because there are soo many tree spots around that when you find a rare resource, the chances are pretty low that anyone else finds that spot (as long as you dont find them in or near towns). Also the locations for ore got more. We also got Ter Mur and Eodon now. So i doubt that all high end ore spots in Trammel, Felucca, Malas, Ilshenar, Tokuno, Ter Mur, Eodon will be covered. You will always find spots to get what you aim for. Even if you only found one spot of each high end resource, it would be better than go mining/lumbering an hour as it is now.

Going mining/lumbering and not find what you aim for is way for frustrating than finding some locations exhausted here and there.

Also Pkers might get some more opportunities to kill someone. (No, I am not one of em) PvP is pretty low on most shards. This may give PvP at least a little bit more action.

Cookie

I gathered then, and I gather now.

I agree with the sentiment, give the honest gatherer a better chance, but I completely disagree with Static Resources.

They were changed for a reason. The current system, whilst it surely has its flaws, seems to never give high end, and seems to benefit scripters, is still way better than Static Resources - for the reasons Kyronix mentions. It was a bit like the current IDOC situation, where one scripter took every node per day, and that was it, no-one else could get anything.

Drowy

Totally disagree here. System was changed to harm scripters, but it only harmed the honest players. Scripters can still send their Bots 24/7, they just dont get as many high end resources as before. The honest gatherer has to decide if he wants to go lumber/mine with getting almost none of the resource he wants, if its a high end one. Even if you fear recall locations to be exhausted, you can go to ilshenar, Eodon or Stygian Abyss to mine/lumber. I dont see where the actual system is better than the static one, except if you just mine/lumber around and dont aim for any specific resource. Every other gatherer will tell you "Please switch the system to static resources." As I already said, they cant cover all the spots today and there are still the "non recall lands" which are scripter free.

Urge

Kyronix said:

Now consider - is this a situation that would make it easier or harder to acquire the higher level resources you are targeting? 

I'll be interested to see what perspectives are shared here!

When that change was made you couldn't go anywhere without seeing some form of resource bot. The population just isn't there anymore and even with a complete crafting overhaul I think there should be a decent supply. Bots may increase some but I don't see it being an issue like it was.

PS: Please fix my character. It's bugged. It's listed under the bug section. Here. Please. Thank you. It's annoying. Ticket#: 9226173

Garth_Grey

Am I wrong, or can you not use a prospectors tool on the same spot and over time convert it from regular to valorite ? I don't think I'm far off although I don't mine considering there are plenty of colored ingots to be had on the High Seas.

Garth_Grey

Victim_Of_Siege said:

I get that the scripters have the best opportunity to get the node, but i always got enough of the higher level wood/ore to suit me before the change, i would harvest plenty of the stuff to do bods or make suits.  after the change i had to buy from the scripters to do my business.  of course now i can get more high end wood/metal killing merchants/pirates versus mining/lumber jacking, which doesn't seem right to me.  I feel we should get at least the same from normal harvesting as fighting on the high seas. so i would like to see something done to make it better, but i am not sure what that would be other than reverting to what it was before. I'll drin,  err think on it a while.

While I respect your opinion I don't agree. Regular miners and lumberjacks should not be able to compete with the amounts of resources that should be on merchant ships. I was one of the ones that pitched this idea early on before High Seas 2.0. It only makes sense that more goods would be floating on vessels bound for ports for delivery/selling. You and I should absolutely be able to gather more resources by plunder than by sweat of the brow. /end RP

Tyrath

Now consider what it was like prior to this change (which goes back to 2007).  Resources of any given quality could be found in static locations.  This resulted in a situation where "the early bird would catch the worm" as the highest end resources were dominated by those who could devote the most time to harvesting them at that location.

Prior to the change myself and a whole lot of other people actually spent a considerable amount of time mining and lumber jacking.  It did not take long after the change for most of us to just say to heck with this ain't worth the headache.  We by the way had  zero problem under the old system. If you were around back during the change then you know most legit miners and LJs were strongly against the change.  What we were asking for was that the scripters be dealt with not our primary job in the game to be wrecked. 

  As far as the early bird getting the worm, that is as it should be.  It is how it is in almost every other aspect of the game.Those who spend more time working at achieving something tend to be much better and consistent at obtaining the things they are after.

   I think we are all aware of Garg Picks and Prospector tools and how to use them.  They like the mining and LJ skill are about useless in the current system. 

  The Stated reason for changing mining and LJ back in the day was to deter scripting of resources.  That was an epic fail that actually catered to resource scripters and effectively gave them a monopoly on wood and ore.  Again static locations were not the problem, the tolerance and lack of consequences for cheating was the problem.

  After so many years of having free run of the market the RMTs have more resources stock piled than they will sell in two lifetimes.   You actually see very VERY few resource bots anymore.  Why?  Because there is little to no market for what they already have mountains of. 

  A good number of people quit UO over the change, Considering the dev flavor of the day broke both of my main things in game back then Resource Gathering and Bags of Sending.  The only reason I didn't walk away back then was they returned bags of sending back to functioning as they had due to the massive outrage of how the new BOS worked.   Mining and LJ should have been reverted back at that time.  There just were not enough of us that used LJ and Mining as our primary playstyle to make as much noise as there were people angry about the BOS Farce. 

  You don't need to over think this one or make it more complex than it has to be!  No one wants to use those ignorant maps or waste their game time obtaining the ignorant maps.  Sure they are novel for the occasional miner but overall not worth the time or effort to use them.  Wha tthose of us who actually want to be miners and Lumber Jacks want is what we had before the entire system was wrecked into a scripter only activity.  It really is that simple. 

  NO ONE had trouble obtaining resources under the old static system.  I don't think I ever heard anyone complain in that regard.  Again the biggest complaint was the devs and gms allowed the blatant script bots to run 23/7 without consequence.  You know the same complaints players have now in other more lucrative areas of the game that are bot dominated.

Uriah_Heep

+1

Amen

Tyrath summed it all up quite nicely.

LilyGrace

I hadn’t gone mining for anything other than niter for years. I used to mine a lot, as others here are saying, back in the day. I recently went back to mining to fill some specific needs. It was completely frustrating. 

I went to the same same locations I used to mine. All around Delucia and all around Covetous mountain. Both in Felucca. I couldn’t find higher end colors to save my soul. 

Perhaps my memory is off but the way I remembered things working was the locations for any given color were static for a day. Then locations changed at server up. 

Back then Delucia was packed with miners, lumberjacks, blacksmiths, etc. And there was plenty of everything for everyone. The population of course is nothing like that now. And neither is the mining. Mining now is terrible. 

Scripters aside, I think it should go back to how it used to be. I’m happy to stick a crate on the ground to block a scripter when I see one. They’re getting what they want one way or another. Why make it tough on the rest of us while you unsuccessfully keep them from using their bots?

Pawain

Make the veins in Fel rulesets static.  

Urge

LilyGrace said:

I went to the same same locations I used to mine. All around Delucia and all around Covetous mountain. Both in Felucca. I couldn’t find higher end colors to save my soul. 

Perhaps my memory is off but the way I remembered things working was the locations for any given color were static for a day. Then locations changed at server up. 

Once the spots are mined dry the respawn is completely random. There is no pattern at all.

If you're interested in mining, boat mining above Cove (i think it is?) with a fire beetle will net you a ton more than walking around. Unless you just like wasting time doing it?

Parnoc

Yes I agree totally with Tyrath, as soon as the random resources came about I lost my desire  to lumberjack and mine.  Script runners didn't really bother me either except for Frostwood since it was so rare ---- but now it's not rare, it just plain doesn't exist, at least for me. 

And as he said there were just too few of us to make a noise loud enough to be heard, however, now, I'm not sure there are enough miners and lumberjacks in the game to do it either and not sure since the brick has already fallen, that even a change back will help.

LilyGrace

Urge said:

LilyGrace said:

I went to the same same locations I used to mine. All around Delucia and all around Covetous mountain. Both in Felucca. I couldn’t find higher end colors to save my soul. 

Perhaps my memory is off but the way I remembered things working was the locations for any given color were static for a day. Then locations changed at server up. 

Once the spots are mined dry the respawn is completely random. There is no pattern at all.

If you're interested in mining, boat mining above Cove (i think it is?) with a fire beetle will net you a ton more than walking around. Unless you just like wasting time doing it?

I don’t understand your post. I’m talking about how the spawn used to work. 

Urge

I thought you were talking about how it works now.

Before the change, if a spot was a certain special it stayed that way forever. Most rune libraries had runebooks of what spot was what.

But like I said, if anyone is interested in mining now, there's a wall above cove that is only available via boat to mine that will yield a lot more ore than walking.

Kirthag

Tyrath said:

Again the biggest complaint was the devs and gms allowed the blatant script bots to run 23/7 without consequence.  You know the same complaints players have now in other more lucrative areas of the game that are bot dominated.

QFT

Couldn't say it better.

And really, yes, I miss mining. Minerva (my real favorite toon) was the first to GM her primary skills (mining, smithing, and tinkering) while still on Atlantic where overcrowding and rampant PKing of resource gatherers was a sport before Trammel and oh so many other changes. Minerva (now Tandy) is no longer the dirty-sooty crafter she used to be.  RP aside, the way-too-randomness of resource gathering was the nail in the coffin for that toon. I used to play her more than Kirthag - mining was therapeutic for me. Now it is such a hassle. I even remarked all the runes I had (37+ rune books) of mining spots because it made no sense to have them - it was just a teasing reminder of the past.

The nodes were never the issue.

Tyrath

LilyGrace said:

Perhaps my memory is off but the way I remembered things working was the locations for any given color were static for a day. Then locations changed at server up. 

 

  The way the old system was supposed to work was that at server up there was supposed to be a chance of ore spots changing type.  It never did work and they never did change.  SO you are right in that is how it was intended to work, but it never actually worked as intended.

JollyJade

Haha, Devs touching the resource system..... what could go wrong? 

inb4 "all my val turned into normal iron"

Shannow

Just an idea - make it player/skill based vs time.

e.g. I play my miner alot and have gm mining. I have just mined valorite. I now have a 1% chance of the next spot being valorite. The more spots I mine, the greater the chance the next spot will become valorite. If I wait 24 hours and try mining again, the % chance will double. So I could mine 100 spots and get valorite again (on avg) or wait 24 hours and only have to mine 50 (on avg).

To aid the pvp in fel. Make certain areas have a double % chance on top of the rules above.

So if in a fel mining cave - 2x chance to mine valorite etc. + 2x if >24hrs + gradual increase in % as number of spots mined increases.

popps

Kyronix said:

There is an item in our backlog to revisit this - I can say that while we don't have the bandwidth to make this change in the coming publish it is a change worth having a conversation about.

Right now there is a random chance to get a resource type in any given harvesting attempt based on your skill.  That chance is augmented by a few items, 

• Using an item, like a gargoyle pickaxe to "bump the level"
• Using a resource map to guarantee the resource quality

Beyond that - it's random.

Now consider what it was like prior to this change (which goes back to 2007).  Resources of any given quality could be found in static locations.  This resulted in a situation where "the early bird would catch the worm" as the highest end resources were dominated by those who could devote the most time to harvesting them at that location.  This would effectively exhaust the supply without anyone else being able to get those locations.  Given the ease at which a player can move around to each of these locations the likelihood of a store being exhausted is only increased.

Now consider - is this a situation that would make it easier or harder to acquire the higher level resources you are targeting? 

I'll be interested to see what perspectives are shared here!

Didn't you recently "tie up" the amount of purchasable Ethereal Sand to an account ?

If you make Resources static BUT, you make their availability "stick" to accounts, those "early birds" would only be able to eat "their account's worm", not other players' accounts worms....

Just an idea tossed around......

popps

Kirthag said:

And really, yes, I miss mining. Minerva (my real favorite toon) was the first to GM her primary skills (mining, smithing, and tinkering) while still on Atlantic where overcrowding and rampant PKing of resource gatherers was a sport before Trammel and oh so many other changes.

Absolutely, Mining and Lumberjacking back in the days, where skills I enjoyed wholeheartedly , it was fun to meet fellow miners and Lumberjackers while collecting resources and chat with them during days when there was no Global Chat and no Vendor Search....

Meeting a fellow player interested in the same game content was a great occasion for exchanging stories, hints, directions to good vendors....

That was good and fun gaming............

Victim_Of_Siege

Garth_Grey said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

I get that the scripters have the best opportunity to get the node, but i always got enough of the higher level wood/ore to suit me before the change, i would harvest plenty of the stuff to do bods or make suits.  after the change i had to buy from the scripters to do my business.  of course now i can get more high end wood/metal killing merchants/pirates versus mining/lumber jacking, which doesn't seem right to me.  I feel we should get at least the same from normal harvesting as fighting on the high seas. so i would like to see something done to make it better, but i am not sure what that would be other than reverting to what it was before. I'll drin,  err think on it a while.

While I respect your opinion I don't agree. Regular miners and lumberjacks should not be able to compete with the amounts of resources that should be on merchant ships. I was one of the ones that pitched this idea early on before High Seas 2.0. It only makes sense that more goods would be floating on vessels bound for ports for delivery/selling. You and I should absolutely be able to gather more resources by plunder than by sweat of the brow. /end RP

Victim_Of_Siege

I guess I didn’t word it right @Garth_Grey because what I was trying to convey was I should be able to find trees with the wood almost as easily as I can find a ship with the wood. I personally have found one tree with frost wood since the change, and it switched the second time I harvested it. I got the tree stumps specifically for this reason. I’m not advocating the remove materials from the ships, But that we should have choices in gathering resources, we should be able to fight hardened, rum swilling Pirates for our materials, or walk around like a mindless zombie swinging a pick/axe. All up to how you want to spend your time. 

Petra_Fyde

I don't do bods very much, so I possibly don't mine as much as some, however when I do mine it's quite often for stone, though lately my target has been saltpetre or sand.

I like the maps - but have often wished they were available for lower ores, especially shadow. I know shadow can be obtained by using a prospector tool and gargoyle pick together - but my miner can't fight ore eles. 

When I do bods it's usually just the singles to get things like PoF or a rock hammer. I don't have the patience for mixing and matching to fill large bods and attempts to do so usually just leave me confused and bemused. For this reason Agapite is the highest map I've ever used, though I have also claimed maps from Vela.

I'd also like to see the rock hammer added to the possible tools for 'target by resource'.

I'd like there to be a way of selecting which ore or logs you gather - after all you wouldn't look for silver in a copper mine or oak in a pine forest would you? On the other hand no one should be able to mine or chop the same ore or logs continuously, so there'd need to be some kind of 'quota' system, maybe a bit like the current restriction on buying ethereal sand in Minoc? 

The maps would still be desirable, since they exceed the usual volume of an ore pocket, speeding up the process of reaching your target amount.

LilyGrace

Tyrath said:

LilyGrace said:

Perhaps my memory is off but the way I remembered things working was the locations for any given color were static for a day. Then locations changed at server up. 

 

  The way the old system was supposed to work was that at server up there was supposed to be a chance of ore spots changing type.  It never did work and they never did change.  SO you are right in that is how it was intended to work, but it never actually worked as intended.

Ah ok. Thanks for the clarification. Like I said it's been a long time. I guess I was remembering how it was supposed to work. @Urge jogged my memory too when he mentioned the rune libraries having mining spots marked.

I'm sticking by what I'm saying about it being a bummer to mine now tho. I'm not interested in gargoyle picks, maps, rock hammers, whatever. Just let me craft my shovels and go mining. Why does it have to get so convoluted? 

With all due, @Garth_Grey , I don't agree that you should be able to get more resources out at sea than if you're mining or chopping. Are there more rocks at the rock quarry or at the shipping docks? Is there more wood floating around on cargo ships than there is in the timberlands? But if cargo ships is how it's going to go? Please put granite out there!

@Petra_Fyde 's idea of letting us be more selective with what we're looking to harvest makes a lot of sense to me. 

@JollyJade , do you ever actually post anything constructive? Your "devs are gonna eff it up " comments are stale af. 

JollyJade

LilyGrace said:

@ JollyJade , do you ever actually post anything constructive? Your "devs are gonna eff it up " comments are stale af. 

Yet they are on point "af".

Bilbo

YES Bring back Static Resource Locations and while you are at it please do away with the failure to smelt garbage.  A 105 Miner with 120 Black Smith should equal %100 success.