Per Mesanna's request, suggestion for crafters to compete with existing loot level

WornOutYourTool

Urge said:

I would make loot spawn with more player friendly usable stats. 

My biggest issue is Stam suits. Being able to play a max swing Archer should not only be for the wealthy. 

The loot allocation another bag of cats.  Last night they just asked for clearer simpler idea they could impliment. Crafting specific.  Making the max Stam suit isn't that hard just the crafted pieces have to sacrifice resists or stats to do so.  The problems and solutions I laid out should remedy that and are largely just number and table changes.

Bilbo

PureLife said:

All I am concerned about is whatever method is chosen that crafted items break often so they need to be replaced. Legendary loot should still have high demand with crafted gear being comparable in stats just limited in lifespan to completely optimize your suit.

Also weapons are good where they are at and should not be updated.

Sorry but no thank you because if crafted stuff breaks often then nobody will want it, why waste the gold and resources when high end loot is still around.  Make them all the same.

Radst

I DISAGREE strongly with these new ideas.

First, let's look back and review the roadmap of the key changes in crafting:

- 2012 (p74): Reforging/BOD: this important change fixed the long time issue of BOD scripting, because BOD was the only way to obtain the best gears from using only high-end runics with high-end color materials). This patch finally nerfed (in a good way) the demand for high-end runics and color materials, and finally set a purpose for all level of runics and materials.

- 2013 P81 Weapon/Armor revamp: stam loss for different armor type

- 2009 Imbuing: Together with reforging, crafters are finally able to create the desired properties in most cases.

- 2015 Time of Legends: Introduction of high-end loot gears. Crafters are still needed to make reforged pieces to pair with loot gears (for example: +5 HCI armors, 100% elemental weapons, 150 luck armors)

That being said, when you look at the bigger picture, each crafting method beautifully fit together in their own places, for both loots and crafts, for both PVM and PVP. It took quite many years to pave the way without us players realizing it, but it was brilliantly done.

As a crafter, I have nothing to ask for more. Crafting and loots dont compete each other: they currently balance each other.

PureLife

Bilbo said:

PureLife said:

All I am concerned about is whatever method is chosen that crafted items break often so they need to be replaced. Legendary loot should still have high demand with crafted gear being comparable in stats just limited in lifespan to completely optimize your suit.

Also weapons are good where they are at and should not be updated.

Sorry but no thank you because if crafted stuff breaks often then nobody will want it, why waste the gold and resources when high end loot is still around.  Make them all the same.

lol your kidding I hope bud. If crafted gear doesn't break you will make it once and then no one will need it again then we will just hear the same complaints about crafting being useless in a few months. Isn't that why we are in this mess in the first place because legendary armor doesn't actually break same with imbued and reforged stuff at 255 durability it lasts a lifetime.

WornOutYourTool

Radst said:

- 2015 Time of Legends: Introduction of high-end loot gears. Crafters are still needed to make reforged pieces to pair with loot gears (for example: +5 HCI armors, 100% elemental weapons, 150 luck armors)

That being said, when you look at the bigger picture, each crafting method beautifully fit together in their own places, for both loots and crafts, for both PVM and PVP. It took quite many years to pave the way without us players realizing it, but it was brilliantly done.

As a crafter, I have nothing to ask for more. Crafting and loots dont compete each other: they currently balance each other.

I disagree with this part.  Crafters are not needed and are outclassed in these areas except elemental weapons.  Crafting IS in a great place, I agree, however looted items have once again crept up and put a shadow over it. 

 They're (devs) seeing craftings shortcomings and want to know small tweaks they can do to bring the balance back.

Bilbo

PureLife said:

Bilbo said:

PureLife said:

All I am concerned about is whatever method is chosen that crafted items break often so they need to be replaced. Legendary loot should still have high demand with crafted gear being comparable in stats just limited in lifespan to completely optimize your suit.

Also weapons are good where they are at and should not be updated.

Sorry but no thank you because if crafted stuff breaks often then nobody will want it, why waste the gold and resources when high end loot is still around.  Make them all the same.

lol your kidding I hope bud. If crafted gear doesn't break you will make it once and then no one will need it again then we will just hear the same complaints about crafting being useless in a few months. Isn't that why we are in this mess in the first place because legendary armor doesn't actually break same with imbued and reforged stuff at 255 durability it lasts a lifetime.

And if the current loot doesn't break then nobody is going to buy anything that cost a lot that will break.  Everything needs to be equal, if loot is better why waste buying an inferior product.  You buy a better product because it is better.

quickblade

With all the runics being duped and scriped farmed over the years , im not sure if they should allow runics to compete with current legendaries loot , im sorry

Urge

Bilbo said:

PureLife said:

Bilbo said:

PureLife said:

All I am concerned about is whatever method is chosen that crafted items break often so they need to be replaced. Legendary loot should still have high demand with crafted gear being comparable in stats just limited in lifespan to completely optimize your suit.

Also weapons are good where they are at and should not be updated.

Sorry but no thank you because if crafted stuff breaks often then nobody will want it, why waste the gold and resources when high end loot is still around.  Make them all the same.

lol your kidding I hope bud. If crafted gear doesn't break you will make it once and then no one will need it again then we will just hear the same complaints about crafting being useless in a few months. Isn't that why we are in this mess in the first place because legendary armor doesn't actually break same with imbued and reforged stuff at 255 durability it lasts a lifetime.

And if the current loot doesn't break then nobody is going to buy anything that cost a lot that will break.  Everything needs to be equal, if loot is better why waste buying an inferior product.  You buy a better product because it is better.

It boils down to supply. There's not enough supply with decent loot and crafting has too big of a gap to fill and remain competitive in some templates. Some of these pieces are selling for so much that keeps that A-tar guy in business.

PureLife

Bilbo said:

PureLife said:

Bilbo said:

PureLife said:

All I am concerned about is whatever method is chosen that crafted items break often so they need to be replaced. Legendary loot should still have high demand with crafted gear being comparable in stats just limited in lifespan to completely optimize your suit.

Also weapons are good where they are at and should not be updated.

Sorry but no thank you because if crafted stuff breaks often then nobody will want it, why waste the gold and resources when high end loot is still around.  Make them all the same.

lol your kidding I hope bud. If crafted gear doesn't break you will make it once and then no one will need it again then we will just hear the same complaints about crafting being useless in a few months. Isn't that why we are in this mess in the first place because legendary armor doesn't actually break same with imbued and reforged stuff at 255 durability it lasts a lifetime.

And if the current loot doesn't break then nobody is going to buy anything that cost a lot that will break.  Everything needs to be equal, if loot is better why waste buying an inferior product.  You buy a better product because it is better.

Crafted gear will be cheaper to acquire allowing people to use it to fill in gap's in their equipment without spending over 100 million per piece. If crafted gear was equal to loot then people would want loot buffed then we are just stuck in an endless cycle.

Loot should break, crafted gear needs to break. It's to late to change loot.

WornOutYourTool

quickblade said:

With all the runics being duped and scriped farmed over the years , im not sure if they should allow runics to compete with current legendaries loot , im sorry

Not sure who this addressed to but if me, not looking to compete with legendaries.  As it stands highend runics don't even compete with minor/greater artifacts,  duped or not.   Devs see it, and want minor tweaks to bring it in line with loot, thread isn't about anger towards dupers or people clinging onto looted gear scared their value might go down.

Urge

WornOutYourTool said:

Urge said:

I would make loot spawn with more player friendly usable stats. 

My biggest issue is Stam suits. Being able to play a max swing Archer should not only be for the wealthy. 

The loot allocation another bag of cats.  Last night they just asked for clearer simpler idea they could impliment. Crafting specific.  Making the max Stam suit isn't that hard just the crafted pieces have to sacrifice resists or stats to do so.  The problems and solutions I laid out should remedy that and are largely just number and table changes.

I sent in something very similar to what you suggested but with more detail. No idea if it's even been read or ignored.

I have a lot of characters I just can't afford to suit unless I want to visit that annoying dood in chat. I can't justify spending real cash to compete anymore.

WornOutYourTool

Urge said:

WornOutYourTool said:

Urge said:

I would make loot spawn with more player friendly usable stats. 

My biggest issue is Stam suits. Being able to play a max swing Archer should not only be for the wealthy. 

The loot allocation another bag of cats.  Last night they just asked for clearer simpler idea they could impliment. Crafting specific.  Making the max Stam suit isn't that hard just the crafted pieces have to sacrifice resists or stats to do so.  The problems and solutions I laid out should remedy that and are largely just number and table changes.

I sent in something very similar to what you suggested but with more detail. No idea if it's even been read or ignored.

I have a lot of characters I just can't afford to suit unless I want to visit that annoying dood in chat. I can't justify spending real cash to compete anymore.

I asked last night at the meet, they said feedback was good, just more, simpler and easier to implement the better.  Glad to hear you were passing a lot of that forward.

Bilbo

PureLife said:

Bilbo said:

PureLife said:

Bilbo said:

PureLife said:

All I am concerned about is whatever method is chosen that crafted items break often so they need to be replaced. Legendary loot should still have high demand with crafted gear being comparable in stats just limited in lifespan to completely optimize your suit.

Also weapons are good where they are at and should not be updated.

Sorry but no thank you because if crafted stuff breaks often then nobody will want it, why waste the gold and resources when high end loot is still around.  Make them all the same.

lol your kidding I hope bud. If crafted gear doesn't break you will make it once and then no one will need it again then we will just hear the same complaints about crafting being useless in a few months. Isn't that why we are in this mess in the first place because legendary armor doesn't actually break same with imbued and reforged stuff at 255 durability it lasts a lifetime.

And if the current loot doesn't break then nobody is going to buy anything that cost a lot that will break.  Everything needs to be equal, if loot is better why waste buying an inferior product.  You buy a better product because it is better.

Crafted gear will be cheaper to acquire allowing people to use it to fill in gap's in their equipment without spending over 100 million per piece. If crafted gear was equal to loot then people would want loot buffed then we are just stuck in an endless cycle.

Loot should break, crafted gear needs to break. It's to late to change loot.

You assume crafted gear will be cheap to make because you have no clue what new resources may be needed or how hard they will be to get.  Lets say they put the new resources with the high end loot mobs do you really think that the farmers doing those will sell that stuff cheap so it cuts into their profit.  Imbuing is not cheap and if the add more stuff to it then it will cost even more to make.  Why buy a car that lasts 3 months when you can save and get one that lasts 10 years or are you going to be the person that buys 40 cars.

So we can change crafted to break but we can't change loot to break, something does not add up.

There should be nothing in UO that the players should not be able to make.  Cap loot as it is right now and allow us to make the same and if loot goes up then so does the knowledge of all crafters.  Crafters should not be considered a second class citizen in UO.  I always thought a sandbox game was suppose to be shaped by the players not the UO GODS.  Let us all play in the same sandbox.

Urge

What a perfect time to throw something together and put ingredients on these ships and maps.

Tim

I agree with the game logic that if it exists in the game someone had to have made it. So crafters should be able to make it now. 

This could be done by making a hard cap of the "imbuing weight" (total magical power)  for all items crafted or looted. Items could only go over the number by including a real negative like antique or cursed on a sliding scale. For example an extra 50 points to the cap for antique or 100 for cursed and so on. That way if you are willing to put up with the penalties you possibly can get a better item but if you want it "clean" you go to a crafter.

This game logic would also allow for the rare and hard to get named artifact going over the cap developers might wish to introduce. But as long as all changes to crafting and loot bags stuck to this rule, crafting would remain relevant and "power creep" could be kept under control. I know this doesn't fit the heading of simple or easy but if this principle had been introduced years ago we wouldn't be in this mess.

And God Yes bring back all thing brake sooner or rarely later.

Urge

Imbuing can be viewed as cheap or expensive depending on the amount of 0's one has in their bank. I view it as a cheap way for quick armor but someone else may struggle to buy the mats.

If they do new ingredients, they will be expensive, like anything else, until there's a giant surplus.

I do agree everything needs to break. Mervyn (RIP) was correct in having loot start at a lower durability.