Training Remove Trap & Such

LilyGraceLilyGrace Posts: 317
edited March 2019 in General Discussions
I've been working up a new rogue. Partly in anticipation of new content to come, hoping I'll find more reasons to have and use Detect Hidden and Remove Trap skills. And partly because I was curious about what training up rogue skills is like now.

Unless someone can give me some tips on how to train Remove Trap more efficiently, I think it's a bummer to work up. You're going to wander around for ages, hitting all the spots you know of where you can either blow up containers on fails, remove traps when you succeed, then recall to the next location. You're making runebooks to mark your spots and yadda yadda yadda. This seems like it's going to be very, very time consuming. Maybe it won't be as bad as I think but I have my doubts.

Or Plan B: You have to have or find tinkers at various levels of skill...
  • 30 - 50: Use on 50 skill trapped boxes.
  • 50 - 80: Use on 80 skill trapped boxes.
  • 80 - 100: Use on 100 skill trapped boxes
Who wants to use up soulstones to store up different levels of tinkering skill? I don't want to. And I don't want to train up tinkering again in an effort to produce the boxes needed as my rogue progresses. I did that once before for lockpicking. Dropped tinkering, worked it up again. Created a whole set of lockboxes at different skill levels. Put all the keys on keyrings. Put books in side each of the three containers, showing what level boxes you were working on. I lent the set of boxes out to someone working locks and got them back completely scrambled up. It was impossible to put the sets back together again. I'll never do that again. And I don't need or want to take up space with that many items anyway.

And I'll bet I could holler out in Gen Chat all day long looking for the proper level of skill on a tinker out there that could make boxes for me and I'd get no answer.

It'd be great if you let GM crafters create a Rogue Lock Box that could be used for training Lockpicking, Detect Hidden and Remove Trap. It could have settings on it: Locks, Detect, or Remove. Sort of how you can select from the menu on a shovel to decide what you want to dig up. Or we could create three different tools: Novice, Adept and Master Rogue Lock Box.

A Rogue Lock Box as a piece of loot would work too. But that feels like taking something away from crafters. Having something like this that could be worked from inside your pack the way you can work lock boxes in your pack for lockpicking would at least allow you to hang out at the bank and be with other players at the same time.

Anywho...Maybe I can work the skill up just hanging out at Vesper Bank until I hit 80 and can use my tinker. But this still feels like wicked drudgery to me.

Edited for typo


Comments

  • Well ... the magery skill “telekinesis” removes traps. You have stand a few tiles away or else you’ll get hurt when the trap goes off, but once a chest is unlocked just cast telekinesis and then go open the chest.
    ~ Jennifer-Marie

    "Insanity is a naturally occurring mutation; humanity has just managed to perfect it." -- JMK [[me]]
  • Dot_WarnerDot_Warner Posts: 233
    You might want to wait for the next publish...
  • CinderellaCinderella Posts: 1,274
    I was hoping remove trap would be on the list, when you create a new char...
    I was so disappointed to learn it isn't...
    I have no clue how to go about even starting to learn remove trap...


  • Dot_WarnerDot_Warner Posts: 233
    It IS on the list of skills on a Mythic Token, which lets you set 5 skills to 90.

    The next publish will divorce Remove Trap from from Detect Hidden, which will go a long way towards making it easier to train. (Right now, you have to have DH to even atempt RT.)
  • LilyGraceLilyGrace Posts: 317
    ...
    The next publish will divorce Remove Trap from from Detect Hidden, which will go a long way towards making it easier to train. (Right now, you have to have DH to even atempt RT.)


    I understand this to be the case but I wanted to train Detect Hidden since it was mentioned that there is enough reason already for a rogue to use the skill in order to find certain content in the game. I haven't gone out hunting for any of that content yet. I hope it's out there. And I hope more content will be added. I was also curious, as I said earlier, to see what it was like to train in the skill now.

    It wasn't so horrible, since I found a single crate in the storage room in Britain's Warrior guild building that was optimal when I stood next to it and I was able to move away a tile at a time when it got too easy to work it. It did take a lot of hours of macroing. Then I used a few pinks to finish.

    Cinderella, so far the best spot I've found for starting out Remove Trap are the three rooms that spawn chests in Vesper bank. They're set with a single trap so they don't blow your socks off if they go boom. 

    I recalled around to a few other guard outposts that have trapped chests. Those were too easy to gain from. The chests in the guard towers in Trinsic were too difficult and all three traps go off at once when you fail. That left me pretty close to death and poisoned. Luckily my third attempt at casting cure didn't fizzle :-P

    There's a bit of down time waiting for chests to spawn again in Vesper bank after you've either set off or disarmed all the traps on all the chests in the three rooms. Then you're standing around waiting for a single chest to spawn. It's less frustrating if you fly off to another location and come back again a little later.

    I don't know how far these chests will take me. I'm hoping far enough that I can use my tinker to make and trap chests that'll get me the rest of the way there.
    Well ... the magery skill “telekinesis” removes traps. You have stand a few tiles away or else you’ll get hurt when the trap goes off, but once a chest is unlocked just cast telekinesis and then go open the chest.
    Yeah, I know. :-) 
  • MargretteMargrette Posts: 542
    edited March 2019
    LilyGrace, you probably won't be able to use sets of boxes trapped by someone else's character for training remove trap because the boxes have to be trapped once again after you successfuly disarm them.  It's not the same as having a set of boxes like you use for training lockpicking.

    I've come up with two options for getting the trapping done: (1) plan to train up tinkering on a character on a second account and log in with that character every time all the training boxes are all disarmed and have that second account character trap all of them again, periodically having the tinker character train tinkering by making other stuff as needed to stay 5-10 points ahead of the remove trap skill level; or (2) plan to train up tinkering on a the same character that is also training remove trap, again sometimes having to train tinkering by making stuff to keep the skill 5-10 points ahead of the remove trap skill and then soulstone off the tinkering when done training.

    When the factions system was still around, I didn't feel like it was a waste of time to train tinkering a second time because I planned to make dedicated "faction crafter" characters. Tinkering was a necessity for such characters so they could make faction traps.  Blacksmithing and tailoring, not so much because the faction items they could make were just clothing or armor items with no magical properties and their only appeal was being hued in faction colors, plus they lost their faction hue after a week or two.  Also, soulstones weren't all that much in use at that time because of the restrictions on how frequently you could use them.

    Maybe factions will return some day and having a faction crafter will become a thing again.
  • MargretteMargrette Posts: 542
    Forgot to mention:  Your character needs to be bare-handed when removing traps.  Also, you want to make sure it's wearing high physical resist armor (if you're using dart traps, the only thing that really makes sense if you're doing your own trapping) and has a reliable way to heal itself and strength is decent.  Check your messages, sending you a link to a 2007 Stratics post that might help.
  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 951Dev
    Reworking the RT training loop is something we talked about in the Treasure Hunting thread - so if you are actively training it now and have some feedback on how to improve that process, send it over!

    It’s also important to remember everything related to what was discussed in the treasure hunting thread should be treated as in concept and nothing is finalized.
  • MargretteMargrette Posts: 542
    @Kyronix, I think the thread you mentioned is closed.  
  • LilyGraceLilyGrace Posts: 317
    edited March 2019
    Kyronix said:
    Reworking the RT training loop is something we talked about in the Treasure Hunting thread - so if you are actively training it now and have some feedback on how to improve that process, send it over!

    It’s also important to remember everything related to what was discussed in the treasure hunting thread should be treated as in concept and nothing is finalized.
    Yeah, that thread is locked. If I promise not to talk about the fish barrel idea, you want to open it back up again? :D  Or start a new thread on RT?

    If it doesn't negatively impact other play styles or other in-game scenarios that aren't springing to my mind, I'd drop the wait time on RT.  Why make us wait? Let it work like lockpicking where we can try again right away.

    In addition, have spawn container traps reset after a short count (reset locks quickly too for that matter). If you're looking to actually open a container chances are you're going to pick the lock, remove the trap and open it immediately. Perhaps, if the chest isn't unlocked and isn't opened to fully engage using it, the trap could reset quickly. That way when you find a chest that's optimal to work on you can stay put, working on it repeatedly until or unless you've outgrown the level of difficulty on it.

    Margrette Thank you very much for taking the time to respond with your RT tips. Reworking my tinker, creating a new tinker, or looking for one that matches the skill level needed for trapping boxes was kinda what I was hoping to avoid though. 

    I think it would be great if our GM tinkers could create a tool that could help. Let them create lockboxes and traps they can set the level on, to meet the needs of the rogue in training. Letting tinkers choose from three different levels would work I should think. A tool like this could have a shelf life. When the tool wears out the rogue needs to buy another.

    Edit: P.S. My husband just said, " Why wouldn't a GM tinker be able to make different level lockboxes. It's not like when you reach GM you'd forget how to make a more simple trap."

    Good point I say! :-)
  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 942
    @Kyronix Training suggestions, respectfully submitted :)

    1.Reduce wait time, especially after failures. 10 seconds seems like forever when you failed
     2. Make town chest traps a little less lethal (warrior's guild in brit).  While running to the healer after every failure may mitigate the wait time, after the 3rd time in as many minutes it gets a bit annoying.  
    3. Adjust re-set time on town chests to make them more viable as a resource for multiple training characters.

  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 951Dev
    The thread is closed because at this point we got everything we needed in terms of early feedback.   Nobody did anything wrong!  As a matter of fact it was one of the most constructive early feedback threads we’ve had!  The next step would be to start a conversation over on the TC forum once we have something implemented.  You can always send your feedback directly via PM or e-mail too!
  • LilyGraceLilyGrace Posts: 317
    Oh, good! Thanks! I am clearing my conscience! 
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