Parry and Evade Overpowered for Pvp?

crunchnasty

Just wondering, since these two things seem to dominate all templates

Lieutenant_Dan

The real question is why can you overcap DCI up to 70 but can't overcap HCI at all (stuck at 45)?

Parry is irrelevant until this is fixed 

Mervyn

What game is this?

PlayerSkillFTW

Evasion has already been nerfed twice now. They made it to where you need 120 Bushido, GM+ Tactics and GM+ Anatomy to get the full 8 second duration of Evasion, and added a 20 second cooldown to it. Then they just recently nerfed it again by making the cooldown begin after the Evasion ability has worn off.

We're talking about an ability that requires 4-5 skills in order to use at max effectiveness (Parry, Bushido, Tactics, Anat, and Wep skill if dexxer).

Max_Blackoak

I guess the problem is when parry and evasion are combined with magery...

glad we don't have these issues on Siege because people can't afford to run templates with excessive +skill

xxxVideo

the problem is bush mage
who hits with magery and swings 1.25 with ability to hit 40+ nerve and a chance to drop splintering
while having parry, evasion, bushido regen

Mervyn

*if

they wanted to nerf bok mages, they could either.

Require 70/90 real tactics for weapon special, you know...like before bok mages came back around after it was introduced in the first place to nerf bok mages.

And/Or,,, make town FC1 buff purge-able

xxxVideo

Mervyn said:

*if

they wanted to nerf bok mages, they could either.

Require 70/90 real tactics for weapon special, you know...like before bok mages came back around after it was introduced in the first place to nerf bok mages.

And/Or,,, make town FC1 buff purge-able

im not sure if you are trolling?
not only bush mages using FC1 buff
not only bush mages using 60 weap speacial
how come u suggest  this as nerf to bok mages?

Mervyn

It's true it's not only bush mages using the FC1 bonus, however in order to reach the skills etc on a bush mage, you really do need the FC1 bonus. Pretty much all of the other templates can play without it and still get max everything.

You ever seen a red bush mage?

The same is true for the 60 tactics. Non hybrid templates can have more than 60 tactics and it wouldn't affect them so much, it's a real stretch to get the skills on a bush mage. You have to do it with +skill jewels.

Not quite sure why you would think i was trolling.

I hope you understand what i mean, with hybrid templates you're stretching the limits of the legendary armour etc and jewels, upping the bar would make it near impossible to reach. Most if not all other templates - taking away the fc1 will not hurt so much.

The_Higgs_1

Right now the bokuto mages nerve damage is strictly based on bushido.   To fix that issue all you have to do is make it where max nerve damage is split between bushido and tactics, that way they have to run more tactics in order to max their nerve strikes.

Mervyn

I endorse the above

CovenantX

The problem is, those templates are OP defensively, their offense isn't any better than a tank-mage.   Nervestrike does no more than Armor Ignore, most of the time it does less, but it has a paralyze, and obviously it takes far more skill points.

Confidence (with the mastery) is basically an uninterruptible heal usable while moving... pretty much ensures a dexer has no chance of beating it.  not to mention Parry also reduces the chance a dexer has to beat it.

Parry is the problem with most every 'caster' template existing today tbh, It has been the problem since global loot made 80 dex easy A F to get on any template.

Mervyn

I have a high end bok mage, it’s not my main due to the fact that it has to be blue to get the FC1 bonus. 

It’s not exactly invincible, you get dismounted and disarmed and you’re as dead as the next guy. 
Low Mana regen is a problem too sometimes.

hunter11

its not the bok that makes them over powered it the ability to block almost all incoming damage i shouldnt be able to survive an eight person dump with 80% health 

Mervyn

Pro tip, wait until they’re disarmed before dumping

Gandalf

Next step would be... Let's fix magery because they casting spells?

hunter11

sounds nice but youre not going to get a disarm off in a group fight and not have that person straight line run away so you cannot cast on them

hunter11

gandalf do you even pvp why did you make that comment it contributes nothing to the conversation 

Cetric

Without parry , splinter chars and dexers run rampant, so I still don't think parry is an issue.  Anytime I'm on anything without parry anymore it just feels like you get hit more than 50%.

Evade though, I'm fricken sick of evade.  Everyone who knows what they are doing runs it for high end group fights.  And it's just so powerful.  It shouldn't evade so much in that window.  If anything it should just cut damage in half for that 5-8 secs or whatever.  Crazy to see a good sync on a guy who stood out of position but he hit his evade in time without anyone getting a disarm and walks away 3/4 life after evading 250 dmg.

Agreed on the confidence mastery, it's pretty powerful.  You can practically sub out heal methods with confidence/mastery+pots and be totally fine in combo with evade lol

The_Higgs_1

"Everyone who doesn't know what they are doing runs it as a crutch for high end group fights."
Fixed that statement for ya.   All I ever see is people running away and hitting evade cause those people cant actually pvp.   If we leave parry alone only mages will exist in pvp, it has to be adjusted down a little bit, and when its adjusted evade will also go down.

Lynk

Thanks for reaffirming my belief that you have no idea what youre talking about higgs.

You also seem to struggle with game mechanics.

The_Higgs_1 said:

"Everyone who doesn't know what they are doing runs it as a crutch for high end group fights."
Fixed that statement for ya.   All I ever see is people running away and hitting evade cause those people cant actually pvp.   If we leave parry alone only mages will exist in pvp, it has to be adjusted down a little bit, and when its adjusted evade will also go down.

Cazador

What ever happened to saying PvP is so balanced? Sounds like you guys get sad boi’d. However evasion is stupid strong in its current form. Also 4/6 chiv insta heal/cure/remove curse and sacred journey on the run. I also agree with Lynk. DC has about a 0% grasp on most mechanics. Please don’t listen to him

The_Higgs_1

Explain to me why evasion in its so called "current form" too strong??  Its the same evasion that's been around since samurai empire cept it has a cooldown.   Also evasion is based on bushido plus parry, so if parry chance is lowered the amount of damage evaded will also lower.  If you don't run parry you might evade one spell that's it.   How is it again that I am wrong,  Id love to hear this.

PlayerSkillFTW

Evasion has only really been a problem whenever Mages have gotten ahold of it. Evasion first came out in SE, and basically only Dexxers used it. It wasn't a problem, Dexxers didn't have the MR back then to keep it up 24/7.

Then ML came out with better gear, notably the 75% EP Ecru Citrine Ring which allowed Mages to finally reach 80 DEX (there was also an EP stacking bug that allowed Greater Strength/Agility pots to last up to 30 mins), and suddenly we started seeing Parry Mages that could keep Evasion up 24/7. Evasion synergized so well with Mages by not only increasing their defense, but also their offense by allowing them to get more damage spells off uninterrupted, that it became a massive problem. Killing an Evasion Mage was practically impossible with how quickly Mages can heal. The devs had to balance that by making Evasion require Tactics and Anatomy to last for it's full duration, a nerf directly aimed at Parry Mages. They then put a 20 second cooldown on it as well (which counted down when the ability was first used). They also capped EP at 50%, which cut down on the Parry Mages.

Now though, with Legendary gear, Mages can reach 80 DEX again, and with the obscene +Skill Jewelry that exists now, the Evasion Parry Mage has made a full comeback.

They recently nerfed Evasion again by making the cooldown begin after the ability ends. Before this nerf, if you had 120 Bushido/GM Tact/GM Anat, you could use Evasion for 8 seconds, wait 12 seconds, then use it again. Now though, that template would use Evasion for 8 seconds, then have to wait 20 seconds to use it again. This makes not having Tactics/Anat actually more advantageous for Evasion in PvP, since you can use Evasion more frequently than the dexxer Tact/Anat build since it won't last as long.

Mervyn

That’s funny, I thought everyone was still denying that they originally brought in the tactics requirement specifically to nerf bok mages? and that when they said they’re dropping tactics requirement to 60 and I said they shouldn’t as it would bring bok mages back, I thought we were all still denying that?? 
No? Oh okay..

Merus

IMO it is not any single skill that is broken or overpowered... it is the ability to stack them all due to the increased availability of massive +skill items.

Skills do not need to be nerfed... a realistic skill cap that accounts for +skill items needs implemented.