High Seas Update: Treasure Chests & MIB Treasures

jaytin

There are lots of different t-hunter templates and I wouldn't mock any of them, we all do things in our own way, t-hunting is the last bastion of diversity and I hope it stays that way. I don't have a thief, I don't want a thief and if t-hunting becomes a subset of the thief profession then it won't be something I will be doing any more. T-hunters are not thieves and they should be diverse. Please don't take away our templates and force us all to be the same. 

Swroberts

jaytin said:

There are lots of different t-hunter templates and I wouldn't mock any of them, we all do things in our own way, t-hunting is the last bastion of diversity and I hope it stays that way. I don't have a thief, I don't want a thief and if t-hunting becomes a subset of the thief profession then it won't be something I will be doing any more. T-hunters are not thieves and they should be diverse. Please don't take away our templates and force us all to be the same. 

This is a good point... If you want to remain stealthy and steal the guardians loot than RT is necessary... If you want a scortched earth approach, then after you kill all the guardians... Magery should be just fine... At this point lockpicking should be unnessecary and you should be able to bludgeon your way in...

Urge

@kyronix

Increased the likelihood of receiving maritime trade cargo from plunderbeacons, lighthouses will now drop cargo of “Mythical” quality, worth considerably more than any other loot (Note: This will show as a green CliLoc error until a new client is deployed in a future release).

Will the mythical armor also drop on lighthouses located in Blackthorn dungeon?

Bilbo

Swroberts said:

jaytin said:

There are lots of different t-hunter templates and I wouldn't mock any of them, we all do things in our own way, t-hunting is the last bastion of diversity and I hope it stays that way. I don't have a thief, I don't want a thief and if t-hunting becomes a subset of the thief profession then it won't be something I will be doing any more. T-hunters are not thieves and they should be diverse. Please don't take away our templates and force us all to be the same. 

This is a good point... If you want to remain stealthy and steal the guardians loot than RT is necessary... If you want a scortched earth approach, then after you kill all the guardians... Magery should be just fine... At this point lockpicking should be unnessecary and you should be able to bludgeon your way in...

I like this idea with the brute force approach, kind of like using TNT to open a safe, you know you will lose some of the loot but it is quicker than trying to pick it.

LilyGrace

Bilbo beat me to it.
Case in point. Butch and Sundance...


I'm all for not making players unhappy, making it a big chore, changing up current templates. But in what fantasy world does it make sense that the bludgeoning brute strength of magic users would be the go-to archetype for finding, digging up, unlocking, finding and removing the traps on treasure chests?  

CovenantX

perhaps off topic but.... don't forget to add whips somewhere in the next publish.

It'd also be nice to see the multiple types of whips listed in the 'Special's book" instead of just the barbed whip listed 3 times under Whirlwind Attack, and the correct whips listed under the specials associated with them. (bugs)

Mervyn

CovenantX said:

perhaps off topic but.... don't forget to add whips somewhere in the next publish.

It'd also be nice to see the multiple types of whips listed in the 'Special's book" instead of just the barbed whip listed 3 times under Whirlwind Attack, and the correct whips listed under the specials associated with them. (bugs)

Please post this in bugs section, or they’ll ignore it and it will never get fixed.

Minerva_Foxglove

Sorry didnt read every post here did I miss anything about new players that train a T-hunter and are happy for todays 1-3 maps ? Its their little income . We should have something left for them, and chest loot that they actually could use. Same for Fishers. A meaningful Mib chest to fish up during training. 

jaytin

Also adding to what Minerva just said, please remember not everyone has soulstones or a Davies Locker, we tend to see everything from a veteran viewpoint and not everyone has access to veteran items. Europa has a steady stream of new/returning players and many of them want to make a t-hunter as it's a fun profession. Some of the returners only played a year or less before they left so they don't have much in the way of rewards yet. 

Kyronix

CovenantX said:

perhaps off topic but.... don't forget to add whips somewhere in the next publish.

Toriana

Minerva_Foxglove said:

Sorry didnt read every post here did I miss anything about new players that train a T-hunter and are happy for todays 1-3 maps ? Its their little income . We should have something left for them, and chest loot that they actually could use. Same for Fishers. A meaningful Mib chest to fish up during training. 

Good point. I have tried to create alts on other shards in order take part in shard events instead of spending lots of money transferring things over. One of my biggest frustrations is not having the gold to buy even serviceable armor or jewelry. Not talking legendary items here but serviceable things with low levels of mods to help train while playing. Finding clean, low weighted but relevant pieces of armor or jewelry on training level mobs or in low level chests or sos fishing chests would be really helpful for young players. Not everyone coming to the game has connections and prices on vendors are often beyond their means to acquire. And as you say, low level chests are a great means of income for them. Perhaps we could even increase the likelihood of having another low-level map spawn in the chest?  

Toriana

Merus said:

@ Kyronix

A suggestion regarding adding remove trap as a bonus for loot:

The fun of a treasure maps is not about how many steps it takes to dig up and open a chest... if there is something to be learned from the plant growing process or the cannon firing process it is that simplicity is desired.  Please consider just making a skill check for remove trap when the lock is picked...  

“You fail to pick the lock”
“You pick the lock but fail to disarm the traps”
”You pick the lock and successfully disarm the traps”

If you pick the lock but fail on the trap you could then use the remove trap skill on the chest to try again.

Agreed!

Toriana

Kyronix said:

Bilbo said:

@ Kyronix

Reducing SoS to "regular" and "ancient' and providing additional salvage items to be fished up before the chest is recovered and re-balancing the loot in those chests to distinguish them from Treasure Chests.

So you are talking about nerfing SOSs, WHY.  1 regular chest and if we get lucky an Ancient SOS.  How about doing the same with SOSs that you are doing with T-Maps and less junk before we get the chest.

Who said anything about nerfing SOSs?

Regular chests currently exist as levels 1-3, and pretty much everything that comes out of them isn't worth the time to fish them up - there just isn't that much variation between 1 -3, so why have them?  An ancient offers a little bump, but not much.  I'm talking about boosting the loot in both - but not to the level of what you might find in a newly-revamped T-Map.  The encounters are too different in terms of difficulty to warrant such.

Also - I'm talking about an entirely new list of stuff to fish up before you get the chest.  May be junk to you, but for others its going to be highly coveted decorations and collectibles.  

What is your expectation for SOS loot?

Thank you Kyronix. I love being able to fish up deco items for my homes and the possibility of getting new things would be a great boost. I love the thought of being able to fish up some items in keeping with IRL scuba dive finds. Would it be possible to keep the gold level in the mid-range for the regular sos - say 20K to 25K?

Toriana

Kyronix said:

Basara said:

@ Kyronix

I speak as a guildmaster for a THB chapter.

Adding Remove Trap as a REQUIREMENT for T-Maps is a deal-killer. 99.999% of T-hunter templates are too cramped as it is. There's probably less people with it on their characters outside SP & Mugen than you WORK WITH (and if you count people with it on a soulstone, it still probably won't come up to the BS employees + EMs). 

Making Telekinesis not work is perfectly fine, but if someone wants to risk death by popping the chest without removing the trap, they should still be allowed to do so.

As it is, level 2 chests STILL do more damage than any other level (that bug was never fixed - I've seen a level 2 chest (both paragon and map) do 120+ to someone with 70s resists - and have NEVER died to any other level of chest from the trap), and if you could isolate what causes it, perhaps applying that level of damage for all maps level 3-7 would encourage some people to use remove trap. 

Adding the skill as a REQUIREMENT, though (at least for maps level 6 and under), would be as short-sighted as the original High Seas Cannon Supplies coding for making the powder charges from scratch - if not more so. It's a sure-fire way to KILL the profession. It would delay actual USE of the changes to the maps for MONTHS, off the "hard-mode" shards, as NO ONE HAS THE SKILL on those shards, except as a curiosity kept on a display soulstone (often one that they found on an IDOC, not one they can use).

The lack of use for Remove Trap doesn't suprise me - it's been a dead skill almost since its arrival due to the lack of anything of consequence related to traps.

I'd have to disagree with your point of "risking" death.  The amount of "risk" in death is very small, if at all, given the staying power of your loot on a corpse.  Sure there are minor exceptions but in whole death isn't a risk should someone wish to blow themselves up.  The hilarity of the thought is not lost however!

As I've mentioned before were we to make any meaningful changes to Remove Trap the entire skill would be up for balance from top to bottom - this includes removing the requirement for Detecting Hidden in any context, the training path, the success rates, and how the skill behaves within the context of the game world.  This would result in whatever issues currently exist with traps to be resolved in the effort.

I will disagree with your assertion regarding any change as "killing the profession."

Consider this,

Cartography is not required beyond initial decoding. 
Mining is not required due to advances in UI/Davie's Locker.
Remove Trap is not required because of Telekenesis.  
Lockpicking (in some instances) isn't required.

What we are left with then?  Where's the actual "Treasure Hunter" profession in this scenario?  What distinguishes this particular template from one you can use to fight any other encounter in the game world?

Couple of questions I've posed elsewhere and am curious to see your (and anyone's) response...

What is the skill breakdown of your Treasure Hunter before, during, and after the entire Treasure Chest encounter?

Do you participate in Treasure Chest Encounters as a solo activity or in a group?

What items are you most after when it comes to Treasure Chest loot?

Were you to train Remove Trap, regardless of context, what do you feel the training time should feel close to - Cartography? Alchemy? Animal Taming (eep!)

Thanks for the replies!

As stated above, here is my template on my t-hunter:
Cartography 100
Lockpicking 100
Magery 100 
Evaluating intel 100 for spells against spawn
Mystic 120
Focus 110
Mining 90
With this template I can solo 5 without dying and level 6 with an occasional death. I do this by luring things off a bit and taking them down one at a time. I often invite a tamer to join in on the level 6 as we have gotten some nice cold drakes in our stables this way. I do level 7 with two or three other people, again inviting a tamer along.
I do not swap skills at all during the process, in large part because I want to be able to decode any maps immediately after I take them out of the chest. This is particularly true when digging for treasure in Fel. I've used mining since my understanding that it would enable me to dig up the chest without being right on top of it though would not mind giving it up (particularly if the bonus is added to cartography) and learning to use remove trap especially if there's a chance of getting something special. 
As for division of loot in groups. On ATL my guild used to participate in a once weekly guild hunt of level 6 maps and an occasional night of level 7 maps. We had the t-hunter who dug up each treasure chest and was protected by the group. Upper level maps as well as master keys usually went to the t-hunter for future hunts. Each person in attendance that night would get to loot one of the chests and take whatever they wanted from it. The more veteran players would get the lasts chests (in case we ran out of time or maps) since we didn't necessarily need what was in the chest. It was a great way for newer players to get some decent stuff while being protected during the hunt. Newer players were assigned chests first and if they didn't know what to take a more veteran player would watch over the loot placed off to the side in bags. Imbuers could then take anything to be discarded to unravel. 
When digging up upper level chests I look for maps and scrolls (alacrity / transcendence) first, gold, keys, deco items, imbuing ingredients, and clean artifact items next. I take recipes I might need or be able to sell, tasty treats (could we make these stackable please??) and often take resources since I also have both a scribe and an alchemist. I like the idea of relegating resources to lower level maps since that would renew their purpose and help newer players collect resources as they are training skills. In SOS chests I rarely take the trouble to gather the gemstones and would prefer one pile with more gems like we find in the t-hunting chests. 
As far as the time for training remove trap I think it should be similar to cartography or lock picking. Oh please God, not taming or the bard skills! 
Currently the different facets offer differing levels of difficulty and rewards which means that we actually have far more than just the 7 levels of maps. It also means that Malas and Ter Mur maps are often discarded outright and special attention given to Trammel and Fel maps. Would it be possible to streamline the maps for consistency in difficulty and reward? That way people could be as excited about a Malas map as they are a Tram or Fel map.  

Bilbo

@Toriana
As stated above, here is my template on my t-hunter:

• Cartography 100
• Lockpicking 100
• Magery 100 
• Evaluating intel 100 for spells against spawn
• Mystic 120
• Focus 110
• Mining 90

So you could lose Mining which may not be required and pick up Remove Trap
You would still be able to do everything that you did before so I see no problem.

Tim

Regarding the idea of adding Remove Trap. Most of the suggestions I've seen here will end up with there only being one way of doing T-maps. No body will choose to use a method that leaves gold or the best items on the table.

In stead I would suggest removing the requirement that all guardians be dead before you can unlock the chest. You could also add if the trap is set off all the guardians not dead return to defend the chest (think bank guards after the alarm goes off). Also a chance that they would reset the lock and trap the chest or even worse call for reinforcements. 

As I see it this would allow three main methods of doing T-maps even if the guardians were given a major bump.

1. Smash and Grab the present method both solo and with groups. Small advantage to using Remove trap so as not to call for reinforcements (small % chance????)
2. Lure away and sneak back. Remove Trap would help but not absolutely necessary and small groups would be an advantage.
3. Full Thief  Solo play (dig, hide, stealth back, unlock, remove trap, loot )

This would really give Thieves something to do as well as making all the content available to people on low population shards or just prefer to play solo. But I can see it still being fun and worth the effort to get a group together.

All the other changes being discussed would not be affected either way with this idea.

Variety is the spice of life.

TimSt

Tim said:

Full Thief  Solo play (dig, hide, stealth back, unlock, remove trap, loot )

This would really give Thieves something to do as well as making all the content available to people on low population shards or just prefer to play solo. But I can see it still being fun and worth the effort to get a group together.

How would you incorporate map difficulty info full thief solo play?

Tim

I TimSt said:

Tim said:

Full Thief  Solo play (dig, hide, stealth back, unlock, remove trap, loot )

This would really give Thieves something to do as well as making all the content available to people on low population shards or just prefer to play solo. But I can see it still being fun and worth the effort to get a group together.

How would you incorporate map difficulty info full thief solo play?

Harder to hide, greater chance of being revealed and to fail on remove trap. For the average thief being revealed to level 6 map guardians would probably be like a guard swat.

I would like it to be steal from the box but at the moment that is an automatic reveal. If it could be changed to a chance of being revealed on each stealing attempt at a much higher fail rate the the steal it self would be good.

In other words the higher the chest/map level the higher the fail rate. 

Edit rereading I would also add a chance of being revealed if hidden on failed lock picking. And revealed would provoke the guardians just like triggering the trap.

ZekeTerra

My template is:
120 Taming (with Jewelry)
120 Lore (with Jewelry)
120 Vet (with Jewelry)
110 Magery
100 Cartography
100 Lockpicking
100 Mining

I do not remove any skill and am at the site (or near it) from start to finish.  I solo Level 6's all the time looking to get some Level 7's that my friends and I can do together (although I have solo'd a 7 or 2 before).  I normally only do Fel & Tram Maps (because I'm lazy).  I find doing level 6's a lot of fun by myself, sort of relaxing when nothing else is happening in game.  I'll do 5 or 6 maps than stop.  While I do store my maps in Davey's Locker, I don't depend on the it to find the location of where to go.  I carry a 12 set  Rune Library of common Tram & Fel Locations to make  getting there easier.  I use a Level 5 Chiv/AI Cu most of the time but have used my Level 5 Fire Beetle, although it takes a bit longer to finish off the spawn, especially when there are a few AWs.  I use EC with Pincos which makes the maps a lot easier to work with since with Pinco's you can Zoom in on the small t-map and make it fill half your screen.   My guild will periodically do t-maps as a guild hunt, mostly 7's when we can get them since anything lower gets boring real quick.  I normally toss level 1-4's away for clean up points but do the Level 5's in hopes of Pinks (in Fel) and Mana Orbs and of course to get some 6's & 7's.  As far as loot goes, I'm looking for imbuing ingreds, gems, pinks, blues, recipes, Mana Orbs, skeleton keys (more so now that you can combine them), Pardons and if luck the occasional Legendary or Useful Major Artifact, or a clean SSI jewelry.

KHAN

Kyronix said:

CovenantX said:

perhaps off topic but.... don't forget to add whips somewhere in the next publish.

I hope this means what I think it does!

Dot_Warner

ZekeTerra said:

My template is:
120 Taming (with Jewelry)
120 Lore (with Jewelry)
120 Vet (with Jewelry)
110 Magery
100 Cartography
100 Lockpicking
100 Mining

I think I may copy your template, replacing mining with remove trap. 

Tamer/T-Hunter seems to be the most versatile option

What does your suit look like with the +skills?

LilyGrace

If, because of causing some imbalance to pvp, you can't reduce the wait time between tries on Detect Hidden, perhaps you could allow gains on failed attempts the way you do with lockpicking.

I've been training up Locks and DH simultaneously for a couple of days, just to see what training is like now. It takes 11 lockpick attempts to 1 DH attempt. Picking locks and searching for traps at Trinsic docks, a couple of guard tower outposts, the Warrior's Guild storage room in its SW corner, and Vesper Mint, I've flown up to 74.2 locks.

I've been able to gain steadily on locks with both successful and failed attempts, on containers that range, according to Crystal Ball of Knowledge, from Too Easy to Challenging. Detect Hidden lags behind at 49.8, with no gains on failed attempts.

Edit: Just hit 50 on DH. Started RT. It's an 11 seconds delay between tries on RT too. 
Gaaaarrrrrgghhhaaaggghh! And now I'm dead.

2nd Edit: No gains on fails with RT either. Tedious af.

ZekeTerra

@Dot_Warner ; the Jewelry each has +15 Taming & Lore, +10 Vet, +5 Magery and FCR2.  The suit is mostly Greater, Major or Legendary pieces I've gotten doing the roof.  It's all 70's (75 E) with 30 MR 

Tim

LilyGrace said:

If, because of causing some imbalance to pvp, you can't 

God I was hoping we could get through this without seeing that phrase. 

Any change to the skills under discussion will have changes to PvP and they will whine about it but that is not a reason to not improve the game. The same applies to all other type of game play everybody will adapt and the game will be better. 

LilyGrace

Tim said:

LilyGrace said:

If, because of causing some imbalance to pvp, you can't 

God I was hoping we could get through this without seeing that phrase. 

Any change to the skills under discussion will have changes to PvP and they will whine about it but that is not a reason to not improve the game. The same applies to all other type of game play everybody will adapt and the game will be better. 

Relax, Tim. I don't pretend to know all the possible reasons for such a long wait time between DH & RT tries. I couldn't think of much of anything that would be effected if the wait time was shortened. I thought maybe PvP but I wasn't sure. 

My husband tells me he doesn't think pvpers would dedicate points to DH so much. He figures they'd use Reveal or Earthquake or some such. I don't have the first clue. What I know about pvp wouldn't fill a thimble. But I do try to put some thought into how to not disrupt play styles outside my own when offering ideas that I personally think would better the game. 

If it's no skin off anyone's noses for these two skills to work as lockpicking does, with little to no wait time and skill gain possible on failed tries, I'm all for it. I think they're tremendously tedious skills to train up. 

Tim

No Problem LilyGrace 

Just the we can't do something because it will upset the PvPs is one of my hot button issues.

Must stop rant here must stop rant ..................................Be good no rant.

Dot_Warner

Scale the DH delay based on real skill. GM = 5 secs

Urge

Detect hidden is on the anti macro timer for a reason. It, like many of the other skills, were exploited in the past. Any such removal of the timer would cause it to be exploited again.

My namesake here is a thief in the Vice vs Virtue system. Detect is needed to locate the sigals. It can also be used by rival players to locate players like myself, that use hiding. To answer your question if detect hidden is used in Fel? Yes, the developers made it that way.

The timer should stay.

Urge

Tim said:

No Problem LilyGrace 

Just the we can't do something because it will upset the PvPs is one of my hot button issues.

Must stop rant here must stop rant ..................................Be good no rant.

You need to be tolerant to different playstyles and how others enjoy this game.

Uvtha

Unique artifacts for each type.  New craftable recipes.  Themed chests.  Unique color chests you can take home with you.