Very necessary revamp in crafting

ZedZed Posts: 33
edited March 2018 in General Discussions
        @Kyronix , please enter the change in the reforging or imbuing. There were many proposals how best to do it, At least can again enter double reforge and imbuing or only double reforge.I do not think that to return to change when the double reforge worked, difficult )  I understand that doing degree extensively for crafting can take quite a long time, but for now it's possible to make at least some changes that will improve the craft.

          i liked the proposal that said King Greg  :  
       " I could talk all day long about what should of been done with the new loot system. All we wanted was that shame loot be spread AS IS to every where else. Almost a year of shame loot being out and nothing was super overpowered, but there were still some sought after items. Instead they released it globally and changed it. It's been too long now to go back, so just have to keep moving forward.

Simple Comparison.

Legendary No Name Armor can Achieve ~ 17 mods.(Pretty sure it goes higher, but good enough for this comparison)
Valorite/Barbed - 7 Mods
Imbued Gear - 5 Mods.

"Easy" Solution.

Armor Reforging Changes
Fundamental - + 1 Resist (Scales with Runic +15 for val hammer, +5 for Dc)
Integral - +1 Resist (See above for scaling)
Structural - (+1 Resist) Adds Brittle, Increases Intensity of Main mods
Integral -(+1 Resist) Durability Scales with Runic (255 For Valorite, 60 for DC)

Weapon Reforging
Fundamental - +1 Random Mod (Intensity Scales with Runic)
Integral - +1 Random Mod (Intensity Scales with Runic)
Structural - Leave the Same as is now.
Integral - Durability Scales with Runic (255 For Valorite, 60 for DC)

This Beefs up High End runics while leaving low end runics relatively the same and won't destroy the POF market.

This means that if a player wants to burn 10 charges on a val hammer they could get

Current Brittle Val Hammer Mods
+4 Resists
255 Durability

Example

Mystic Studded Gloves of Haste
Crafted by Your Mom
Brittle
Dex 4
Mana 8
Stam 10
Stamina Regen 1
Mana regen 3
Lmc 8
Physical 17
Fire 19
Cold 3
Poison 18
Energy 19
Durability 255/255

Which would PUT runic crafting on par with Legendary Named Artifacts if they burn all 10 Charges.



With Imbuing, Allow mods to be taken to 7 (700 cap), but make them antiques once they hit 6-7 mods or break the 500 Intensity barrier. This isn't a GREAT solution, but will help slightly even the playing field for new players without them having to invest billions into gear.

Examples

Ring
Antique
Enhance Potions 25
Faster Casting 1
Faster Cast Recovery 3
Hit Chance Increase 15
Defense Chance Increase 15
Swing Speed Increase 10
Damage Increase 25
Durability 255/255

Studded Chest Of Haste
Antique
Dex 4
Hit Point Increase 5
Mana Increase 8
Stamina Increase 10
Mana Regen 2
Hit Point Regen 2
Lower Mana Cost 8
Physical Resist 7
Fire Resist 8
Cold Resist 9
Poison Resist 6
Energy Resist 6
Lesser Reforged
Durability 255/255


etc etc.

9-13 Mod Jewelry from loot is still sought after obviously, but players could still be competitive without it. And still within the normal limitations of Imbuing. So Overcapped mods would only come from loot/First reforging."

           This city needs a new hero !


   Vendors with excellent armor and weapons are always waiting for you on Atlantic )

Comments

  • Not even only runics should make such parts. I think that the best way will be to add reagents like whetstones.
     For example for adding each property slot you will need to find or collect something pretty rare.
    Such way will make various bosses popular again and solve problem of tonns of runics which came in game from afk bod farming.
    Anyway is better to combine craft with pvm loot.
  • ZedZed Posts: 33
        This is not entirely correct,need equalize world loot and craft,but not to complicate craft   even more. :|   

               This city needs a new hero !


       Vendors with excellent armor and weapons are always waiting for you on Atlantic )

  • Nope. Craft shouldn't be equal to world loot without some parts from loot. Other way craft became separate game in game :)
  • ZedZed Posts: 33
             So you lower the crafter class ,which can only make weapons, and not all. Why do we need high runics ? What is the point now from them ? You propose to kill even more crafter class,who is already dead right now.

               This city needs a new hero !


       Vendors with excellent armor and weapons are always waiting for you on Atlantic )

  • I just offer not to make top craft without ingredients from loot, runics will be also needed
  • ZedZed Posts: 33
              We already have enough ingredients,for top crafting is enough high runics, enough and that to get high runics need do bods,for which resources are needed + bribe .  

               This city needs a new hero !


       Vendors with excellent armor and weapons are always waiting for you on Atlantic )

  • Everyone here knows how  high runics and other runics come into the game - not by working hands of few manual-playing players. Thats why will be better to make an opportunity to craft really strong items with some NEW ingredients from loot.
  • ZedZed Posts: 33
          Then it is necessary to make so that top loot legendary items it would be impossible to obtain without assistance crafters )  You got top legendary item with 15 properties ,but all properties have low values,and to make them high, you need your ingredients ))) How to you it?)

               This city needs a new hero !


       Vendors with excellent armor and weapons are always waiting for you on Atlantic )

  • Agree! ))
  • ZedZed Posts: 33
        But not me )  Because crafter  should be able to make a thing no worse the same legendary items. But I do not mean uber clean legendary items. Such a thing must remain exclusively loot item. But for example studded gorget with dex,int,SI,MI,LMC,MR and full resists,with  POF  opportunity,crafter has the right to make.

               This city needs a new hero !


       Vendors with excellent armor and weapons are always waiting for you on Atlantic )

  • ZedZed Posts: 33
           And also with the possibility of obtaining through reforging  get non brittle and non antiq items. For example, I'm reforging studded gorget , spent 100 barbed runic kits and got clean dex\int\SI\MI\LMC\MR and full resists studded gorget . 

               This city needs a new hero !


       Vendors with excellent armor and weapons are always waiting for you on Atlantic )

  • AragornAragorn Posts: 284
    a returning player saw this during search and want to give it a push
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,930
    edited August 2020
    Buffing up Crafting "without" making it more complicated and time consuming, to my opinion is not going to fix anything but only going to screw something else in the game.... Looted items.

    As I see it, a revamp to Crafting cannot be a patch here and a patch there increasing the imbuable weight, giving more enhancing and reforging power to crafters and stuff like that because what this would achieve can be either of these 2 :  

    1 - Crafted items will still be "sub-par" to Legendary Looted items ;

    2 - Crafted items will be at least "same-quality" as Legendary Looted items or perhaps even better;

    Now, if # 1 will be true, I guess then that nothing would have been done to make Crafting worth playing again, players would still prefer to go with Looted items and Crafting will still languish, saved a few, very reduced minor exceptions (like now where practically only Weapons and 190 Luck items are being crafted...) ;

    If instead # 2 will be true, but without at the same time making Crafting more complex, high steep learning curve and time consuming to make high end things with (and at the same time NOT scriptable, because if it was scriptable this would defy the time consuming process I would imagine), then what would happen, I guess, is that players would craft high end items and not spend time fighting to get looted ones....

    So, that is why I keep saying that, to my opinion, in order to make Crafting make a full come back to Ultima Online indeed it should be permitted to Craft at the very least same quality items to Looted Legendaries, with a chance at even better ones, BUT, that the same time, in order to avoid crafted items take the place of looted items, at least for the top, high end Crafted ones, they should be kept difficult to make and with a very time consuming (not scriptable) crafting process....

    Personally, I do not see, other then making high end crafting very complex and with a steep learning curve so that only a few really motivated players who want to play a crafter most of their online time in the game would want to bother, how else such a "balance" between High End Crafted items and Looted items could be achieved maintaining their quality as comparable and interchangeable.

    That is at least how I see it.
  • AragornAragorn Posts: 284
    edited August 2020
    imbued / enhanced item has finite use life as POF can't be applied, meaning at some point of time you need to create the super item again. I think this is a very good balance already. if you want to go further you can add those cursed / brittle / antique / massive etc.... negative properties randomly added if the property weight is above certain level, which is the same approach to loot items nowadays. 
  • Or you know go with the ridiculously simple idea I keep pitching where you change the 100 skill point arms lore bonus from 5% to say 20% making crafted armor not completely handicapped by its resist gap but still leaving loot prized for its over capped madness.

    Balance, value and simplicity for changing one number in a sea of code.



    But what do I know, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • AragornAragorn Posts: 284
    Or you know go with the ridiculously simple idea I keep pitching where you change the 100 skill point arms lore bonus from 5% to say 20% making crafted armor not completely handicapped by its resist gap but still leaving loot prized for its over capped madness.

    Balance, value and simplicity for changing one number in a sea of code.



    But what do I know, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    or make Arms Lore 120 PS first before applying these additional benefits
  • CookieCookie Posts: 913
    edited August 2020

    My baseline is that Crafted items should be better than PvM looted items. PvM looted items, should in the main be the ingredients to craft the best items, This way the system process is a complete circle and skills and templates rely on each other.

    The Peerless system does this with peerless ingredients, Stygian Abyss mini champ spawns do this with essences and imbuing ingredients, Doom boss blood does this, but the failure of those systems is the resulting items are then too much hard work, and too weak compared to PvM looted items. They all need a boost in item strength. PvM loot drops almost need to be removed. Except for the very specific Artifacts, they are a good Boss drop.

    I am a fan of the BOD system, I think it is a nice system.

    However, I think there is almost no demand for the top end rewards - Valorite/Heartwood/Barbed runic kit rewards which is a shame, because what they produce again is just too weak and random when measured against for example, 1 boss drop from PvM. PvM rewards are far too easy in this sense, and the process for getting the Runic Reforged Kit is too hard, for too little reward, it should be the other way around.

    A lot of the lower end BOD rewards are great. Bless deeds, crafting scrolls, powder of fortification, plum tree, dyes, spellbook talisman, cauldrons, maps, are great, but the runic kits - what should be the piece de resistance of crafting, are failing in their purpose.

    The lower end runic kits are ok, because they allow 100% elemental damage weapons to be made, but this again only highlights how worthless the higher end runic kits are.

    I PvM with my guild, I have the ability to get a lot of Legendaries every night. Usually I just unravel them, I just hate this system so much. It has no meaning to me, I hate searching through such randomness. When you craft your own gear, to your own design, it has a lot more meaning, and functionality, and you are happier with the balance of what you have achieved. Or would be, if you could actually craft what you wanted. So much of this game is a lesson in disappointment and poor compromise when it comes to gearing up, you can never get what you actually want, there is no mechanism to get what you actually want on your characters - should this be the case? I think not. The times I have quit this game, have been because of the unstructured and poor gearing up abilities on my characters. (As well as the games reliance on Sampires in PvM, and Dismounting in PvP).


  • SethSeth Posts: 2,145
    Cookie said:

    My baseline is that Crafted items should be better than PvM looted items. PvM looted items, should in the main be the ingredients to craft the best items, This way the system process is a complete circle and skills and templates rely on each other.

    The Peerless system does this with peerless ingredients, Stygian Abyss mini champ spawns do this with essences and imbuing ingredients, Doom boss blood does this, but the failure of those systems is the resulting items are then too much hard work, and too weak compared to PvM looted items. They all need a boost in item strength. PvM loot drops almost need to be removed. Except for the very specific Artifacts, they are a good Boss drop.

    I am a fan of the BOD system, I think it is a nice system.

    However, I think there is almost no demand for the top end rewards - Valorite/Heartwood/Barbed runic kit rewards which is a shame, because what they produce again is just too weak and random when measured against for example, 1 boss drop from PvM. PvM rewards are far too easy in this sense, and the process for getting the Runic Reforged Kit is too hard, for too little reward, it should be the other way around.

    A lot of the lower end BOD rewards are great. Bless deeds, crafting scrolls, powder of fortification, plum tree, dyes, spellbook talisman, cauldrons, maps, are great, but the runic kits - what should be the piece de resistance of crafting, are failing in their purpose.

    The lower end runic kits are ok, because they allow 100% elemental damage weapons to be made, but this again only highlights how worthless the higher end runic kits are.

    I PvM with my guild, I have the ability to get a lot of Legendaries every night. Usually I just unravel them, I just hate this system so much. It has no meaning to me, I hate searching through such randomness. When you craft your own gear, to your own design, it has a lot more meaning, and functionality, and you are happier with the balance of what you have achieved. Or would be, if you could actually craft what you wanted. So much of this game is a lesson in disappointment and poor compromise when it comes to gearing up, you can never get what you actually want, there is no mechanism to get what you actually want on your characters - should this be the case? I think not. The times I have quit this game, have been because of the unstructured and poor gearing up abilities on my characters. (As well as the games reliance on Sampires in PvM, and Dismounting in PvP).


    This is so true.

    PVM
    - mainly ingredients and arties are useful. 
    - Only certain clean specs are useful, and they are still used for imbuing. 
    - Other combinations that are good are super rare, probably worse than Cameo or Slither drop rate. Maybe same probability as the Blaze Cu.

    And if loots are useful they are Antique.... or cursed.

    Make crafting powerful if it is much more difficult esp. the BODs. I agree the higher end BOD rewards are not as useful. My most wanted item for Blacksmith is POF and shadow runic and Tailor is for the Bless Deed.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
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